England World Cup Warm Ups

Don't expect the snazzy pics produced on better match threads!

England Wales 11th August
Wales England 17th August
England Ireland 24th August
England Italy 6th September.

Squad for the world cup is due 2nd September so theres a chance the 1st 3 could be used for selection purposes and likely to see some combos not considered 1st choice.

BBC saving me typing:

England: Daly; McConnochie, Slade, Francis, Watson; Ford, Heinz; Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Cole, Launchbury, Ewels, Curry, Underhill, B Vunipola.

Replacements: Singleton, Marler, Williams, Kruis, Ludlam, Youngs, Marchant, Cokanasiga.

Wales: L Williams; North, J Davies, Parkes, Adams; Anscombe, G Davies; Smith, Owens, Francis, Beard, Jones, Wainwright, Tipuric, Moriarty.

Replacements: Dee, Jones, Lewis, Ball, Shingler, T Williams, Biggar, Watkin.

I think England will have to cap Jack Singleton in the warm ups. Play around with the back three. Sort out locks and bench.

Theres a real chance for him in these games. LCD hasn't as yet cemented himself as a trusted member (from Jones's persepctive) of the team.

I am going to game on 24th. Looking forward to it.

Singleton looks a very good young prospect. Had a good season and should develop hugely with Saracens.

In this form..Kruis is starting lock for me. And the then its who do you play him with .
Lawes is a fantastic lock, but i'd prefer him alongside an absolute monster like a Simon Shaw or Martin Johnson.
Itoje has played loads at 6 for Saracens. Is that at the request of England?
Where does Launchbury come in to it? Seems to get MOM every game and yet is often questioned as a lack of lineout option?

Didn't realise Singleton was going to Sarries, that's a bit disappointing to have two of our front line hookers at the same club. I know hookers get plenty of game time, but would have preferred him to be starting at one of the clubs regularly in the ERCC

I'd go with the Sarries combo and Lawes off the bench, its tough on Launchbury but as you say, Kruis in this form just brings so much to the set piece and no slouch around the park

BamBam wrote:Didn't realise Singleton was going to Sarries, that's a bit disappointing to have two of our front line hookers at the same club. I know hookers get plenty of game time, but would have preferred him to be starting at one of the clubs regularly in the ERCC

Yeah i think they'll both get plenty of gametime.

I'm a huge fan of launchbury but didn't hit the heights he can during the 6 nations and if we are playing wilson in the back row the lineout suffers.
Thinking about getting tickets for the Italy game up in newcastle. Should be more an exhibition game and the weather may even be good. For Newcastle.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm a huge fan of launchbury but didn't hit the heights he can during the 6 nations and if we are playing wilson in the back row the lineout suffers.
Thinking about getting tickets for the Italy game up in newcastle. Should be more an exhibition game and the weather may even be good. For Newcastle.

No it doesnt...

It has so far. Not used in the lineout on our own ball. No threat on opposition. You've said hes good for Newcastle but we've not seen it for England.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm a huge fan of launchbury but didn't hit the heights he can during the 6 nations and if we are playing wilson in the back row the lineout suffers.

How so?

Wilson took 3 lineouts and stole 0 in the Six Nations in 326 playing minutes.

Compare that to O'Mahony who took 30 and stole 2 in 400 playing minutes, Iturria who took 12 and stole 4 in 343 minutes or even Tipuric who took 12 and stole 0 in 320 minutes, and Wilson isn't a big contributor to England's lineout.

Curry and Vunipola didn't contribute much either, leaving England very reliant on their second rows. Shields however took 2 lineouts in 103 minutes, and was used slightly more than Wilson.

Launchbury and wilson ain't used hugely by England in lineouts. Launchbury takes loads at club level but very rarely do we go to him when Kruis is calling. Joe and Lawes probably best at maul defence bit I think we miss a trick not being able or consciously not choosing to challenge in the air more.

The biggest problem for Cipriani has come with the appointment of Farrell as Captain and the 10-12-13 axis. The return of Tuilagi at 12 and the emergence of an in-form Slade at 13 leaves no place for Cips as a back up 10/15. Ford was always going to be the back up 10 as he has bags of experience and almost single-handedly kept Tigers afloat this year when he wasn't on International duty.

Despite his obvious flaws of positioning (I actually think he's ok at catching the high ball), Daly is still being looked at as a 15 by Eddie and the return of Watson means they will probably be able to alternate at the back if picked at the same time.

IF one of the 10s gets a bad injury, then Cipriani will be in. I don't buy in to this Slade at 10 talk - he can do a job there as he played 10 as a junior, but I certainly wouldn't start him there.

Just a thought - if Farrell is injured in the first game and is out, who gets the armband? Itoje??

It's always gone to ford when farrell has gone off recently.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

BamBam wrote:Didn't realise Singleton was going to Sarries, that's a bit disappointing to have two of our front line hookers at the same club. I know hookers get plenty of game time, but would have preferred him to be starting at one of the clubs regularly in the ERCC

Yeah i think they'll both get plenty of gametime. 

It should be noted that Singleton is returning to Sarries, having left 2 years ago to get gametime.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Launchbury and wilson ain't used hugely by England in lineouts. Launchbury takes loads at club level but very rarely do we go to him when Kruis is calling. Joe and Lawes probably best at maul defence bit I think we miss a trick not being able or consciously not choosing to challenge in the air more.

Perhaps the issue is Kruis and Borthwick rather than the abilities of Launchbury and Wilson?

Mr Bounce wrote:The biggest problem for Cipriani has come with the appointment of Farrell as Captain and the 10-12-13 axis. The return of Tuilagi at 12 and the emergence of an in-form Slade at 13 leaves no place for Cips as a back up 10/15. Ford was always going to be the back up 10 as he has bags of experience and almost single-handedly kept Tigers afloat this year when he wasn't on International duty.

Despite his obvious flaws of positioning (I actually think he's ok at catching the high ball), Daly is still being looked at as a 15 by Eddie and the return of Watson means they will probably be able to alternate at the back if picked at the same time.

IF one of the 10s gets a bad injury, then Cipriani will be in. I don't buy in to this Slade at 10 talk - he can do a job there as he played 10 as a junior, but I certainly wouldn't start him there.

Just a thought - if Farrell is injured in the first game and is out, who gets the armband? Itoje??

Tuilagi is not a 12.
Tuilagi is not a 12
Tuilagi is not a 12

But feel free to play him there and waste his talents

Dombrandt replacing Shields as he's injured.. not sure if serious or not

Shields returning to England for assessment on a foot ligament injury. Dombrandt flying out to Italy to provide cover in the squad.

Ligament never sounds good.

Yes LT. Quite possibly it's how Borthwick has set things up. Tbh was really upbeat about him coaching the lineout. Not really improved it overall has he?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ligament never sounds good.

Yes LT. Quite possibly it's how Borthwick has set things up. Tbh was really upbeat about him coaching the lineout. Not really improved it overall has he?

The other thing is that it seems to be a tactic that we no longer compete on opposition throw, preferring to defend the maul. With the athletic ability of some of the guys that seems crazy to me, but assume there is some theory behind it.

Itoje was a revelation at stealing balls...or at least disrupting...now he hardly seems to do anything.

Sad to hear about injuries...but Dombrandt is a big improvment in the squad over Shields...and an unknown X-Factor

Should be in the starting team then.

How far has Chris Robshaw fallen.....

Feel for the guy but this is elite sport.

Domdrandt is a good prospect.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Should be in the starting team then.

Impact sub for Mark Wilson

Brad71090 wrote:How far has Chris Robshaw fallen.....

Feel for the guy but this is elite sport.

Domdrandt is a good prospect.

It doesn't look good for him.

If Shields recovers and makes the squad, it would be interesting to see how Eddie dealt with an in-tournament injury to one of his blindsides. The experience of Robshaw or parachute in the uncapped Dombrandt?

I guess he's not going to learn anything he didn't already know about Robshaw in Italy. If he thinks Shields is making it back anyway, he may as well have a look at Dombrandt now.

So is this the final squad or has it not been picked yet?

yappysnap wrote:So is this the final squad or has it not been picked yet?

Not yet. It is still a 38 man squad.

robbo277 wrote:Shields returning to England for assessment on a foot ligament injury. Dombrandt flying out to Italy to provide cover in the squad.

Yes saw that. Wasnt Cheikas hills they were training on was it? 2 or 3 Wallabies did their calf muscles in there. Pocock isnt even back yet...

I thought the final squad was announced the other week.... next thing we know the quins boys get thrown back in and Cips and Ben Moon are out.

Who knows whats final... Eddie? Not so sure haha

Brad71090 wrote:I thought the final squad was announced the other week....

No-one has announced a final squad yet. The deadline for everyone is the 2nd September. Jones is supposedly due to make his announcement during August but he could delay it if there's a question over the fitness of a player.

Rugby Fan wrote:

Brad71090 wrote:I thought the final squad was announced the other week....

No-one has announced a final squad yet. The deadline for everyone is the 2nd September. Jones is supposedly due to make his announcement during August but he could delay it if there's a question over the fitness of a player.

 
France have announced their 31 man squad (though of course can change it). Eddie is scheduled to name his on August 12th - but again this can be changed right up to the 2nd September deadline.

LondonTiger wrote:France have announced their 31 man squad (though of course can change it).

It was an odd announcement, though. Brunel  named six reserves, and said those players could yet make the final cut if any of the 31 got injured or lost form. That's pretty much the state of play for a lot of squads, I'd have thought. It sounded a bit like he was making his current pecking order known, while all the other coaches are biding their time.

I think with France the club's won't let them have the luxury of a bigger training squad. I think the reserve list players will be released back to their club's once the T14 season starts. They will obviously be the first call ups if/when injury strikes. Obviously it's very French and doesn't allow for loss of form of his 31 and reduces competition for places.

Already Romain Taofefanua has been called into the main squad to replace the injured Paul Willemse and Ettiene Falgoux has dropped off the reserve list due to a ligament strain.

May as well mention Shields is expected to be fit in 2-3 weeks. Daily Mail report said scan showed only minor damage.

Dang

Nowell sent home with an injury - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49155565

propdavid_london wrote:Nowell sent home with an injury - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49155565

Pre-existing of course. The management of the ankle seems to have been a bit amateurish. Injured during the GP final, he waits till after returning from holiday before having the surgery now he is flown out to Italy for the hot weather camp (should have stayed in England ) before being sent home with complications.

Shields update - he’s out for six weeks and will miss the entire warm up schedule. Race to be fit for Japan.

https://mobile.twitter.com/bbcrugbyunion/status/1156208143002718212

Completely at odds with what was posted above! I'd go with someone else, missing 6 weeks at this crucial point in the build up is a bit too much imo

Doesn't sound good for shields. Even if fit in time for the wc its unlikely he'll get game time before it and it's too big a risk. I'd have him as a great first back up.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Doesn't sound good for shields. Even if fit in time for the wc its unlikely he'll get game time before it and it's too big a risk. I'd have him as a great first back up.

Tough luck for the lad. Probably his only chance to feature in a world Cup is hanging by a thread.

If Shields doesn't make it, who will Eddie take to replace him? Dombrandt is in camp, but much as I think he will win a lot of caps in the future, it seems a huge gamble to take him to the RWC with so little experience.

I'd take Dombrandt.

Wilson, Underhill, Itoje and Lawes are all options at 6 to different degrees, if Eddie wants to replace Shields with another 6 then Dombrandt isn't under too much pressure to be the immediate backup. Dombrandt also brings cover at 8, and the possible X factor to really add impact if he makes it on to the bench

I reckon he's got half an eye on Dombrandt featuring in the first warm-up game with a view to seeing how he'll cope in an International. Given that he played out of his skin against the Baa-Baas, I'd say he's very likely to go if Shields doesn't.

I can see Eddie taking Shields even if he misses those warm ups. He's shown before he'll gamble on players coming good in tournaments with Hughes and Billy V.

Worth noting that Ludlam was in the initial squad and Dombrandt is only a late addition. If Eddie had big designs for Dombrandt this autumn he probably would have included him in the initial squad.

I think yappy might have it, and Eddie might gamble on Shields. He's not quite proven pedigree at international level for me so I'm not sure I'd risk him, but I can see Eddie making a delayed decision on him.

I've next to nothing on Ludlam. What's his style like?