New Zealand vs South Africa - Pool B Game 1 - 21st September 2019

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed Jul 24 2019, 17:31

Erasmus has made 12 changes to the Springbok team that beat Australia, with Vermeulen back as captain. This team is arguably their strongest right now which is why this fixture has peaked my interest. It’ll be interesting to see how the AB selectors respond.

Springboks team to face New Zealand in Wellington:

Willie le Roux, Cheslin Kolbe, Lukhanyo Am, Damian de Allende, Makazole Mapimpi, Handré Pollard, Faf de Klerk, Duane Vermeulen, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Kwagga Smith, Franco Mostert, Eben Etzebeth, Frans Malherbe, Malcolm Marx, Steven Kitshoff. Replacements: Bongi Mbonambi, Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, R.G. Snyman, Francois Louw, Herschel Jantjies, Frans Steyn, Jesse Kriel.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/27247481/duane-vermeulen-lead-springboks-all-blacks

All Blacks:

1. Joe Moody (37)
2. Codie Taylor (41)
3. Owen Franks (106)
4. Brodie Retallick (76)
5. Samuel Whitelock (108)
6. Shannon Frizell (4)
7. Matt Todd (17)
8. Kieran Read - captain (118)
9. TJ Perenara (55)
10. Richie Mo’unga (9)
11. Rieko Ioane (24)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (51)
13. Jack Goodhue (7)
14. Ben Smith (77)
15. Beauden Barrett (74)
16. Dane Coles (61)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (27)
18. Angus Ta’avao (4)
19. Vaea Fifita (10)
20. Dalton Papalii (2)
21. Aaron Smith (83)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (34)
23. George Bridge (1)


Last edited by LondonTiger on Thu Sep 19 2019, 14:05; edited 4 times in total

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Post by Pie on Wed Jul 24 2019, 17:34

Strong side, I think they will win.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed Jul 24 2019, 17:47

Not far off what we faced in the autumn, for those who said it was a 2nd string. South Africa’s strength in depth looks ridiculous now that they’re selecting their overseas based players;

South Africa: 15-Le Roux, 14-Nkosi, 13-Kriel, 12-De Allende, 11-Dyantyi, 10-Pollard, 9-Papier; 1-Kitshoff, 2-Marx, 3-Malherbe, 4-Snyman, 5-Mostert, 6-Kolisi (captain), 7-PS Du Toit, 8-Vermeulen.

Replacements: 16-Mbonambi, 17-T Du Toit, 18-Koch, 19-Etzebeth, 20-Louw, 21-Van Zyl, 22-Jantjies, 23-Kolbe.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed Jul 24 2019, 18:44

All Blacks have split the side again for the home test, particularly at loose forward, inside backs, and the midfield, as hansen floods the side with Crusaders.

no Savea nor Cane, Aaron Smith nor Beaudy at 10, whos at fullback, the most interesting selection.

SBW and Goodhue in the midfield, going for size there. Interesting mix as Hansen continues to experiment.

Understandably looks to have the likely starting front five, and what many think should be the back three.

1. Joe Moody (37)
2. Codie Taylor (41)
3. Owen Franks (106)
4. Brodie Retallick (76)
5. Samuel Whitelock (108)
6. Shannon Frizell (4)
7. Matt Todd (17)
8. Kieran Read - captain (118)
9. TJ Perenara (55)
10. Richie Mo’unga (9)
11. Rieko Ioane (24)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (51)
13. Jack Goodhue (7)
14. Ben Smith (77)
15. Beauden Barrett (74)
16. Dane Coles (61)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (27)
18. Angus Ta’avao (4)
19. Vaea Fifita (10)
20. Dalton Papalii (2)
21. Aaron Smith (83)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (34)
23. George Bridge (1)

Although it’s experimental it does has the effect of testing a second 9/10 pairing to compare with Barrett and Smith. That’s mainly due to no obvious right wing. If Mo’unga continues to shine and Reece doesn’t turn out as hoped we could have a new 10 , 15 playmaker setup. Last time we did that was when Cruden came on vs the Lions and Barrett went to FB, by far the best AB period in the series. This is going to be relished by kiwi fans... ‘about time’ they’re all saying.

SA and NZ are doing things the right way. Playing the wider squad through the RC. Oz are in turmoil. They have to play their best side just to keep head above water, and so far they’re not even doing that.

Play your best side test after test then when injuries hit, or form falls off, who do you look to? Players with full recent form. Hansen risked losing last week to a near full strength pumas side big time. They came through. Fringe players did the work.

This week no Savea, cane, Smith starting, SBW returning from what seems a permanent injury...max effort to get a look at some seconds, as well as give them valuable pressure test start rugby.

Bringing several hundred caps back with the saders 6-pack allows them to do this.

World Cup year is a different beast. Same players were around last year for SA and NZ but the focus is completely different, and why your northern AI results need to be taken with a huge dollop of caution. SA I would say are now minimum top three, possibly two.


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Post by Taylorman on Wed Jul 24 2019, 19:02

mikey_dragon wrote:Erasmus has made 12 changes to the Springbok team that beat Australia, with Vermeulen back as captain. This team is arguably their strongest right now which is why this fixture has peaked my interest. It’ll be interesting to see how the AB selectors respond.

Springboks team to face New Zealand in Wellington:

Willie le Roux, Cheslin Kolbe, Lukhanyo Am, Damian de Allende, Makazole Mapimpi, Handré Pollard, Faf de Klerk, Duane Vermeulen, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Kwagga Smith, Franco Mostert, Eben Etzebeth, Frans Malherbe, Malcolm Marx, Steven Kitshoff. Replacements: Bongi Mbonambi, Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, R.G. Snyman, Francois Louw, Herschel Jantjies, Frans Steyn, Jesse Kriel.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/27247481/duane-vermeulen-lead-springboks-all-blacks

Awesome bench, a lot of talent and experience there, World cup year, SA’s a different beast. Herschel Jantjies has got to be the smallest player for sometime but what a player, Fafs got his work cut out.

For the ABs Frizzell and Todd need to step up, especially defensively. No Cane or Savea is a big call. Pairing of Perenara and Mo’unga will give this AB side a very different look.

An exciting selection, one absolutely no one would have picked, a mixture of size and pace, experience and youth. Typical Hansen, keeping everyone guessing, giving as many as he can, a chance.

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu Jul 25 2019, 08:36

This looks like it will be a fantastic game and a chance to really see what the two top SH teams have in their arsenal

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu Jul 25 2019, 12:08

What time does this one kick off ? Is it an early one for us 8am ? Or is it an early, early one for us 5am ?

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu Jul 25 2019, 12:22

08:35 UK time. Aren't all NZ home games the same kick off time?

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Post by ebop on Thu Jul 25 2019, 12:22

8:35am
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Post by ebop on Thu Jul 25 2019, 12:23

Yup, always 7:35 pm NZT
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Post by LordDowlais on Thu Jul 25 2019, 12:36

Epic, I can watch this game with a cup of freshly ground coffee, and a full breaky.

Oooh I have just noticed Australia V Argentina is straight away afterwards. Epic. I can watch all the rugby and then take care of business in the afternoon before I retire for some light aperitifs in the club in the early evening.

That's my Saturday planned. Laugh

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Post by Taylorman on Thu Jul 25 2019, 12:59

Enjoy your morning Lordy.
Should be fun, both matches.

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu Jul 25 2019, 13:04

Summer tours are great days for doing similar, when you can watch whoever is playing NZ at 0830, whoever is playing Australia at 1030 and then whoever is playing SA at 1400 (ish).

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu Jul 25 2019, 14:23

Taylorman wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Erasmus has made 12 changes to the Springbok team that beat Australia, with Vermeulen back as captain. This team is arguably their strongest right now which is why this fixture has peaked my interest. It’ll be interesting to see how the AB selectors respond.

Springboks team to face New Zealand in Wellington:

Willie le Roux, Cheslin Kolbe, Lukhanyo Am, Damian de Allende, Makazole Mapimpi, Handré Pollard, Faf de Klerk, Duane Vermeulen, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Kwagga Smith, Franco Mostert, Eben Etzebeth, Frans Malherbe, Malcolm Marx, Steven Kitshoff. Replacements: Bongi Mbonambi, Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, R.G. Snyman, Francois Louw, Herschel Jantjies, Frans Steyn, Jesse Kriel.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/27247481/duane-vermeulen-lead-springboks-all-blacks

Awesome bench, a lot of talent and experience there, World cup year, SA’s a different beast. Herschel Jantjies has got to be the smallest player for sometime but what a player, Fafs got his work cut out.

For the ABs Frizzell and Todd need to step up, especially defensively. No Cane or Savea is a big call. Pairing of Perenara and Mo’unga will give this AB side a very different look.

An exciting selection, one absolutely no one would have picked, a mixture of size and pace, experience and youth. Typical Hansen, keeping everyone guessing, giving as many as he can, a chance.

I suspect Australia made Jantjies look a bit better than he is. The defending for his sneeky try was really lazy.

Looking forward to this game.

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu Jul 25 2019, 14:42

Taylorman wrote:Enjoy your morning Lordy.
Should be fun, both matches.

Thanks, and good luck to you when supporting your beloved All Blacks. OK

But I do think the Saffas will give you more of a game than they have done recently. OK

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu Jul 25 2019, 14:57

LordDowlais wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Enjoy your morning Lordy.
Should be fun, both matches.

Thanks, and good luck to you when supporting your beloved All Blacks. OK

But I do think the Saffas will give you more of a game than they have done recently. OK

Eh they beat NZ in Christchurch last year and the return fixture was tighter than a nuns...

...2 point win for NZ in the end.

I suspect Hansen isn't 100% sure what his first 15 is yet so it will be interesting to see how Mo'unga fares at 10. He needs a big game.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu Jul 25 2019, 21:05

Nah it was here in Wellington. Same as tomorrow. Hansen doesnt need to know what his 15 is yet, the whole point of this selection, which is a very exciting one from a NZ perspective.

Weve been wanting a repeat of the Cruden or DMac at 10 with Barrett at FB for years and now weve got it. Mo’unga through his Crusaders and AB bench effort is now proving ultra reliable. He provides a bit more stability at 10 than barrett who can be, albeit mostly, hit...or miss.

The 10 15 playmaker game is I believe the most effective there is, because of the space the 15 gets, and no one is better at using space than beaudy. Perenara adds a strong running and support game and SBW provides for some offloading to sone very good players around him ready to run off.

Its an exciting backline thats clearly going to be used, and Matt Todds selection suggests that, he’ll be running off them all day. Id suggest some high octane stuff is on the menu. thumbsup Yahoo

The Boks look typically ready being a World cup year, just how we like them. World cup wise Ireland and Scotland will face NZ or SA and right now I cant see either winning. Big call but this weekends match coukd be the WCup final prelude.

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Post by Pie on Thu Jul 25 2019, 21:36

Yeah why not just save everyone the trouble and give the Webb Ellis out this weekend eh Rolling Eyes

#arrogance

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Post by Taylorman on Thu Jul 25 2019, 22:25

Pie wrote:Yeah why not just save everyone the trouble and give the Webb Ellis out this weekend eh Rolling Eyes

#arrogance

Well, thats quite obvious isnt it. Don't normally talk the Boks up like that...

By the way Pie, is there a humble flavour? Perhaps you could share some? cake thumbsup

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Post by Pie on Thu Jul 25 2019, 22:31

Taylorman wrote:
Pie wrote:Yeah why not just save everyone the trouble and give the Webb Ellis out this weekend eh Rolling Eyes

#arrogance

Well, thats quite obvious isnt it. Don't normally talk the Boks up like that...

By the way Pie, is there a humble flavour? Perhaps you could share some? cake thumbsup

Gosh you're so funny. Like a rash you cant tell your mum about. Laugh

As for humble, you need a serious dose, but I don't think you have a clue what it means

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Post by Cyril on Thu Jul 25 2019, 22:42

To be fair, NZ vs SA in the final is probably a pretty decent shout. It’s hardly arrogance.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu Jul 25 2019, 22:51

Pie wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Pie wrote:Yeah why not just save everyone the trouble and give the Webb Ellis out this weekend eh Rolling Eyes

#arrogance

Well, thats quite obvious isnt it. Don't normally talk the Boks up like that...

By the way Pie, is there a humble flavour? Perhaps you could share some? cake thumbsup

Gosh you're so funny. Like a rash you cant tell your mum about. Laugh

As for humble, you need a serious dose, but I don't think you have a clue what it means

Must be droll living in a humour free environment huh.

Point being is since 2015 we've sat here watching our sides get beaten by northern sides who really do have the best of everything.

We spend from january to July travelling across the entire southern hemisphere just to play club rugby (something NHers dont do), then spend a couple of months doing the same at RC time (something the NH doesnt do), then after all that have to get up again and head north for the AI's, only to get beaten and watch our sides slide down the rankings.

The NH sides travel south for a piddly few weeks, and go to the rest of their matches for the year on a train pass.

And throw in amongst that most of the better players all leaving to play for clubs and wear jerseys they'd never heard of or seen before.

Thats why around this time its great. The real rugby comes out of the better sides who for the first time since 2015 are able to focus on the most important prize in rugby, they get a RC series that supports its prep, and they get players returning to boost their own sides.

For the NH sides, we've seen what you've got. There arent any back ups, its all BAU for those sides.

But the effort it takes to produce our best rugby now seems to be reduced to World cup years where in between the NH sides get to pretend theyre top of the pile while our sides cope with the travel, player drain etc.

Arrogant? nah. Just looking forward to seeing what our rugby is like when we really want to play this game. NH sides just might end up with an all quarter exit again this year, though Oz probably have been hit far too hard.

Things are starting to get very exciting...dont ya think?

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Post by Cyril on Thu Jul 25 2019, 23:07

For the record, I think the semis will be SH/NH and SH/NH but the final is likely to be NZ/SA.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu Jul 25 2019, 23:46

There isnt a whole lot of evidence that the Boks are good enough to make a final. They lost half of all their games last year. You just need to lose one to get knocked out. I expect plenty of surprises at this years RWC though.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu Jul 25 2019, 23:48

Cyril wrote:For the record, I think the semis will be SH/NH and SH/NH but the final is likely to be NZ/SA.


Yeah the likely quarters:

NZ vs Scotland
SA vs Ireland
Eng vs Oz
Wales vs Argie

That assumes a fair bit already- NZ beating SA , Wales beating Oz, Samoa not upsetting the Irish pool, England topping pool and France not qualifying.

So assuming all that (and I'm sure one of them wont happen) its looking a NZ England and for me any of SA/ Ire vs Arg/Wales.

It wont be an all NH semi, it could be an all SH semi if 2015 is anything to go by (Oz could beat England as their one big win for the year, but unlikely).

I think a SA v Wales semi, and a SA vs NZ or England final.

SA, Wales and Argie look the biggest improvers over the last 12 months.

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Post by Cyril on Thu Jul 25 2019, 23:49

Nah, no surprises. It’ll be the usual suspects in the semi-finals. England and Wales may get there. Argentina have a chance. Ireland look shot. Aussies may spring a surprise. NZ and SA are favourites.

I was reply to Germs here!

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu Jul 25 2019, 23:55

The Boks havent won the rugby championship in 10 years. They are arent the team they used to be. Doubt anyone will fear them. Pretty sure SA arent favorites by any metrics nor bookmakers other than maybe your favorites for the final. NZ yes SA not so much.

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Post by Cyril on Fri Jul 26 2019, 00:18

I think you’re going to be surprised, Germs. You guys couldn’t beat them in a series when they were at an all-time low. They have been getting gradually better while Ireland have stagnated.

SA are up there with NZ, England and Wales for the RWC.


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Post by Taylorman on Fri Jul 26 2019, 02:24

In that 10 years NH sides have won 2 from 20 in SA, lost 17, hardly anything to crow about. Like the NH sides, they play their best at home. The neutral venue is a great leveller.

Can't ever write off SA in World cups, RC isnt the guide. We lost both the 2011 and 2015 RC's.

Of all sides though they are doing the most transitioning, their profile changing with the increasing number of non white, for want of a better word, players. Once they get that balance right they'll be very difficult.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri Jul 26 2019, 04:55

I think the Boks are building nicely. It took them a while to recover from that Coetzee scenario, they even lost to Italy ffs. This current team of theirs looks quite formidable. I expect Aus will get better as well. Whilst three of the NH teams are very good and will be among the top competitors in the World Cup, the four RC teams will also be highly competitive - obviously NZ but the others should continue to improve. It’ll be a good World Cup.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri Jul 26 2019, 05:03

Yes around quarter final time things suddenly get really interesting. Every tournament has its upset results, Japan vs SA with the birth of the current English coach coming out of it proof of that.
But SA are now the France of the SH, where Oz used to be.
They’ve proved they can both lose to and beat, anyone.
So on that basis nobody’s immune, have an off day, even slightly so, and Youre out.
For this weekend the Mo’unga Barrett double playmaker setup is huge for NZ, and could set the scene of what’s to come.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri Jul 26 2019, 07:42

Cyril wrote:I think you’re going to be surprised, Germs. You guys couldn’t beat them in a series when they were at an all-time low. They have been getting gradually better while Ireland have stagnated.

SA are up there with NZ, England and Wales for the RWC.


Ireland beat them with 14 men and a B side in that series in the first test and marginally lost the other two tests with experimental sides. England didnt get any win on their tour there in 2012 and one win on their 18 tour when it was already over. Now that is poor.

If Ireland have stagnated then if you are consistent then so have England. A draw at home to Scotland is hardly a good result and both teams won the same amount of games this year. Personally I dont think either side have stagnated.

Id much rather have the record Ireland have had in the last few years than England and SAs form anyway.


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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri Jul 26 2019, 07:46

Taylorman wrote:Yes around quarter final time things suddenly get really interesting. Every tournament has its upset results, Japan vs SA with the birth of the current English coach coming out of it proof of that.
But SA are now the France of the SH, where Oz used to be.
They’ve proved they can both lose to and beat, anyone.
So on that basis nobody’s immune, have an off day, even slightly so, and Youre out.
For this weekend the Mo’unga Barrett double playmaker setup is huge for NZ, and could set the scene of what’s to come.

Yeah the France of the SH isnt a bad analogy. I can just as easily see them being a flop as I can seeing them stuff a good team here and there.

Cant see them winning the RWC though. Dont think their side has enough experience nor near as much as all previous RWC winning sides. Like France they also change their side too much also.

One plus for them is that a fairly experimental SA side was able to beat Australia. That bodes well for squad depth.


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Post by Cyril on Fri Jul 26 2019, 08:01

Totally disagree about where England and Ireland are. England had a bit of a mixed bag of a 6 Nations but showed plenty of attacking intent. Ireland were destroyed by England and Wales and have very little in attack. They look short on confidence, have a coach who is basically texting it in and even their most diehard fans must hate the way they play. It just looks so awkward and ugly.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri Jul 26 2019, 08:15

Ireland scored more tries than Wales in the six nations this year (2nd most in tournament) and more than England and Wales last year. Their attack is fine albeit yes at the moment Englands is better. All teams suffer dips in form even NZ who Ireland recently beat by scoring more tries.

My biggest worry about Ireland is the 7 shirt. It used to be a big strength but now with Leavy injured and SOB retired we may rely a bit too much on the exceptionally talented JVdF. Happy enough with the cover everywhere else though.

Losing to England and Wales of course isnt great but its not much worse than losing to Wales and drawing at home to Scotland so perhaps you are being a bit over confident? Or maybe you are right to be confident but are exaggerating Irelands weaknesses or perhaps wishful thinking? Also Ireland losing games to England and Wales is as inevitable as Ireland getting future wins against them both so not a disaster.

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Post by ebop on Fri Jul 26 2019, 11:48

Collapse2005 wrote:All teams suffer dips in form even NZ who Ireland recently beat by scoring more tries
Some teams suffer ‘massive’ dips in form like Ireland. They yo-yo between 2-9 in WR rankings whilst an ABs dip in form see them lose the odd game to a team like Ireland but stay at #1. Ireland beats the ABs and sky rocket up but then crap the bed because the emotional toll is probably too taxing. It’s about sustainability Guns and not this flash-in-the-pan stuff.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri Jul 26 2019, 11:52

ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:All teams suffer dips in form even NZ who Ireland recently beat by scoring more tries
Some teams suffer ‘massive’ dips in form like Ireland. They yo-yo between 2-9 in WR rankings whilst an ABs dip in form see them lose the odd game to a team like Ireland but stay at #1. Ireland beats the ABs and sky rocket up but then crap the bed because the emotional toll is probably too taxing. It’s about sustainability Guns and not this flash-in-the-pan stuff.

Ebop, you are right but Id counter by saying that all teams have and do suffer 2-9esque dips with the exception of NZ and most recently Wales.

SA won 7 from 14 games last year, England came second last in the six nations last year, Argentina yo-yo a lot as do Australia recently. Maybe no one more so than France. Sure Ireland do too but so do everyone else lately. All that means is that Ireland like most teams aren't as good as NZ right now.

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Post by ebop on Fri Jul 26 2019, 11:58

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:All teams suffer dips in form even NZ who Ireland recently beat by scoring more tries
Some teams suffer ‘massive’ dips in form like Ireland. They yo-yo between 2-9 in WR rankings whilst an ABs dip in form see them lose the odd game to a team like Ireland but stay at #1. Ireland beats the ABs and sky rocket up but then crap the bed because the emotional toll is probably too taxing. It’s about sustainability Guns and not this flash-in-the-pan stuff.

Ebop, you are right but Id counter by saying that all teams have and do suffer 2-9esque dips with the exception of NZ and most recently Wales.

SA won 7 from 14 games last year, England came second last in the six nations last year, Argentina yo-yo a lot as do Australia recently. Maybe no one more so than France. Sure Ireland do too but so do everyone else lately.
Fair point, you do dine out on Ireland’s recent wins against the ABs a bit though as if it’s a trump card when comparing fortunes. Wales are #2 and deservedly so after the 6Ns and previous results. England have reasserted themselves as a force. Ireland seem to be regressing, and it could change obviously, but that’s the reality.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri Jul 26 2019, 12:05

Im sure SA fans dine out on their win in Christchurch too, why wouldn't they?

I agree that England are a top contender for the RWC but lets not pretend their 6 nations was blemish free. A draw in Twickers against Scotland was probably the worst result for a top side this year so far so they have work to do too. Especially the manner of the draw, a huge points swing. They also lost to Wales.

I don't disagree that Wales deserve to be number 2, are you suggesting Ireland don't deserve to be number 3?

I would back Schmidt to turn the form around. Why, because under Schmidt they always do. It would probably also suit Ireland a bit to be underestimated at the RWC.

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Post by ebop on Fri Jul 26 2019, 12:17

Depends on how you like to dine. Rub your face in the plate kind or the more sophisticated type. SA beat the ABs in Wellington by the way. Where tomorrow’s game is. If SA wins there’ll be a petition to ban Wellington from hosting SA in future. I’m ok with Ireland at #3 but they’re slipping.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri Jul 26 2019, 13:53

ebop wrote:Depends on how you like to dine. Rub your face in the plate kind or the more sophisticated type. SA beat the ABs in Wellington by the way. Where tomorrow’s game is. If SA wins there’ll be a petition to ban Wellington from hosting SA in future. I’m ok with Ireland at #3 but they’re slipping.

You have lost me there. 2 wins v the reigning double world champs is not insignificant in assessing all teams chances in the run up to the RWC. If that is unsophisticated to you then each to their own.

Yes you're right Wellington.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat Jul 27 2019, 02:02

SA Beat NZ four times in the two years before 2011, didnt do them much good, and unlike Ireland, theyre good at world cups. Oz and SA beat NZ weeks before the final. Sure they made semi and final so i guess thats fair.

The wins do count for something but no more than ones history at world cups. Thats Irelands issue, it isnt NZ. Its themselves, when they run on in that quarter final knowing none of their sides have previously got past it. Beating NZ will help as it shows they can break barriers. This one is yet another one. Time to stand up...again.

Main thing Schmidt needs to hav3 worked out by now is how the wheels fell off completely in 2015. ‘Injuries’ doesnt cut it because Im fairly sure the fact that rugby players can get injured has been common knowledge for a while now. Argie were a side that has no professional league of its own and relies on sending players offshore.

Schmidt may have done some of that with building depth, so thats good, but for me there were serious mental reasons Ireland couldnt even compete in the second half. They knew before they went out after forty that their world cup is nearly over. And what did they do? Nothing. Credit they got an early try but then defensive lapses set in, Imhoff rubbing it in with an easy run in. Those are the times that matter. Chicago and the AIs pale in comparison to what is required in a quarter final in terms of prep, motivation, selection etc.


Last edited by Taylorman on Sat Jul 27 2019, 03:27; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Taylorman on Sat Jul 27 2019, 02:41

ebop wrote:Depends on how you like to dine. Rub your face in the plate kind or the more sophisticated type. SA beat the ABs in Wellington by the way. Where tomorrow’s game is. If SA wins there’ll be a petition to ban Wellington from hosting SA in future. I’m ok with Ireland at #3 but they’re slipping.

Not going to the game ebop but sure dont want a repeat of last years result here, but I do hope the match is just as exciting. Reaaaaaally looking forward to the Mo’unga Barrett deal, especially seeing barrett at fb again in a start given what hes learned so far.

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Post by yappysnap on Sat Jul 27 2019, 05:15

Not sure if its been mentioned but if SA beat NZ by 15pts+ then Wales go to no1 in the world.

Would be pretty impressive for Gatlands men. Go the Boks.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat Jul 27 2019, 05:46

Yes that would be interesting. Cant see that happening with that AB pack but who knows, boks are starting to look a little like their scary selves again.

Looks like theyll jump a couple of notches if they do that as well. Bit of a log jam from 5 to 2.

But WC and RC winners, then 6N winners at 1,2 looks about right.

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Post by Pie on Sat Jul 27 2019, 06:06

If SA win which I expect it will be marginal. Boks have picked their moment for a much needed resurgence though.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat Jul 27 2019, 06:14

Difference between the boks and every other side is their ethnic make up, which is slowly but surely taking on a lesser white dominated look. And that suggests a bigger participation in the game is starting to happen.

One saw it in the sevens over the last ten years and now its going the same way in the top side. They have reasonable options in both Europe and the SH for their player base and give them ten to 20 years, another generation of players, children of children born in the post apartheid era and you could have a dominant nation in the sport like never before.

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Post by ebop on Sat Jul 27 2019, 06:38

Taylorman wrote:
ebop wrote:Depends on how you like to dine. Rub your face in the plate kind or the more sophisticated type. SA beat the ABs in Wellington by the way. Where tomorrow’s game is. If SA wins there’ll be a petition to ban Wellington from hosting SA in future. I’m ok with Ireland at #3 but they’re slipping.

Not going to the game ebop but sure dont want a repeat of last years result here, but I do hope the match is just as exciting. Reaaaaaally looking forward to the Mo’unga Barrett deal, especially seeing barrett at fb again in a start given what hes learned so far.
Yeah excited for this one alright Tman. Looking forward to seeing where Beaudy pops up and how he uses the space he hasn’t had in years. Want to see a bit more accuracy this week. Probably a bit too much to ask 2nd game in but that’s the hope.
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Post by maestegmafia on Sat Jul 27 2019, 07:27

Taylorman wrote:Difference between the boks and every other side is their ethnic make up, which is slowly but surely taking on a lesser white dominated look. And that suggests a bigger participation in the game is starting to happen.

One saw it in the sevens over the last ten years and now its going the same way in the top side. They have reasonable options in both Europe and the SH for their player base and give them ten to 20 years, another generation of players, children of children born in the post apartheid era and you could have a dominant nation in the sport like never before.

Yep... they have some serious athletes at their disposal.

Good luck for the game lads, sure to be a tough one.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat Jul 27 2019, 08:14

Yep perfect conditions, starts in 30. Erasmus is a very astute coach, pulling the team together well. Pollard and Faf need to be watched. Besides bb, mo’unga, sbw, moody at looseheads gotta dominate his opposite. World cup feels a lot closer with matchrs like this going on.

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