New Zealand vs South Africa - Pool B Game 1 - 21st September 2019

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 5:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

Erasmus has made 12 changes to the Springbok team that beat Australia, with Vermeulen back as captain. This team is arguably their strongest right now which is why this fixture has peaked my interest. It’ll be interesting to see how the AB selectors respond.

Springboks team to face New Zealand in Wellington:

Willie le Roux, Cheslin Kolbe, Lukhanyo Am, Damian de Allende, Makazole Mapimpi, Handré Pollard, Faf de Klerk, Duane Vermeulen, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Kwagga Smith, Franco Mostert, Eben Etzebeth, Frans Malherbe, Malcolm Marx, Steven Kitshoff. Replacements: Bongi Mbonambi, Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, R.G. Snyman, Francois Louw, Herschel Jantjies, Frans Steyn, Jesse Kriel.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/27247481/duane-vermeulen-lead-springboks-all-blacks

All Blacks:

1. Joe Moody (37)
2. Codie Taylor (41)
3. Owen Franks (106)
4. Brodie Retallick (76)
5. Samuel Whitelock (108)
6. Shannon Frizell (4)
7. Matt Todd (17)
8. Kieran Read - captain (118)
9. TJ Perenara (55)
10. Richie Mo’unga (9)
11. Rieko Ioane (24)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (51)
13. Jack Goodhue (7)
14. Ben Smith (77)
15. Beauden Barrett (74)
16. Dane Coles (61)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (27)
18. Angus Ta’avao (4)
19. Vaea Fifita (10)
20. Dalton Papalii (2)
21. Aaron Smith (83)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (34)
23. George Bridge (1)


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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 8:43 am

Very nervy start for Mo'unga

Read should let Mo' unga kick for goal. Do they not have confidence in him?


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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 8:50 am

Yes being showing the difference between Super and test rugby. Barrett misses his first kick. It was his misses here last year that made the difference, before he went on to a near 90% record for the rest of the year.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 8:51 am

Bad move not trusting your 10 to take the kick in my view

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 8:57 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Bad move not trusting your 10 to take the kick in my view

Why? 10 is a number. Some teams have other positions kick goals.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 8:59 am

Some wierd decision making from the ABs. Turning down a scrum to take a short 22 which just gives the Boks posession around where the scrum would have been taken. Head scratcher.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 8:59 am

Scrappy start. Lots of mistakes, lot of tight marking.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 8:59 am

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Bad move not trusting your 10 to take the kick in my view

Why? 10 is a number. Some teams have other positions kick goals.

because Mo'unga has had a nervy start. Show some trust in him. He is also a better kicker than Barrett.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 9:00 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Some wierd decision making from the ABs. Turning down a scrum to take a short 22 which just gives the Boks posession around where the scrum would have been taken. Head scratcher.

I thought Barrett said he touched it on the way out, something le roux pointed out chasing.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 9:02 am

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Some wierd decision making from the ABs. Turning down a scrum to take a short 22 which just gives the Boks posession around where the scrum would have been taken. Head scratcher.

I thought Barrett said he touched it on the way out, something le roux pointed out chasing.

I wondered if that was the case but the commentators said they had a choice. Maybe not. Think u must be right there.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 9:04 am

Here nor there. Boks have started stronger. Abs could be in trouble. Being penalised heavily as well.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 9:07 am

Most organised Bok side in a long time. Very good decision making in general. Though with NZ on a warning I probably would have gone down the line rather than kick.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 9:17 am

Massive tackle from retallick and barrett shows just how quick he is on a field. Good pass SBW. Starting to open up.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 9:25 am

Half time and Boks definitely created the most pressure but the ABs refuse to not keep trying to get players away and finally did so and released that pressure with a great try. Lots of missed chances by both sides but if the passes stick...

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 9:39 am

ABs starting to get continuity, passes sticking, clearly wanting to up the tempo and stretch the boks.

Herschel jantes on, a little star in the making.


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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 9:44 am

Interesting half time chats. Boks scattered around the room listening to Rassie with a laptop, ABs in a tight huddle, barrett calling the shots. Once the games started, players own the decisions.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 9:49 am

Smith should have backed himself to the corner there...

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Post by ebop on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 9:55 am

SBW done well tonight
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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 9:59 am

Retallick looks stuffed? Broken arm or wrist from that charge? Or shoulder...


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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:00 am

Id say dislocated shoulder.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:01 am

ebop wrote:SBW done well tonight

Really?

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:06 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Id say dislocated shoulder.

Yeah could be. SBW has got through the match ok, all required of him at this stage after weeks out injured through the year. Perenaras gotta stay on bench. He should be coming on now as play opens up. Still scrappy but a bit more happening now.

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Post by ebop on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:08 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:SBW done well tonight

Really?
Yup
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Post by ebop on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:09 am

SA not offering much but ABs should be wary
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:13 am

Boks reffed out of the game in the 2nd half

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:14 am

ABs lucky there. But boks losing a bit of composure with it.

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Post by ebop on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:14 am

Nice punch to Sam’s face there
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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:15 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Boks reffed out of the game in the 2nd half

Funny, didnt hear that comment first half when the ABs were ‘reffed out of it’.

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Post by ebop on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:18 am

SA are too scared to hold on to the ball in this half and it’s cost them as the ABs have held their passes better. SA are playing their old school defend-kick-3pt game and now they’re relying on an intercept.
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Post by ebop on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:19 am

Not straight, did you see that Guns?
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Post by ebop on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:21 am

Ha, well done 21
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:23 am

ebop wrote:Not straight, did you see that Guns?

Yes, marginal enough though

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:24 am

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Boks reffed out of the game in the 2nd half

Funny, didnt hear that comment first half when the ABs were ‘reffed out of it’.

They werent though. Their dicipline was poor. Ref made some pretty harsh calls against the Boks in the second half.

Ignoring the knock on at the ruck, pinging the Boks for going off their feet when they didnt etc.

Anyway a draw is about right. Both good sides but neither unbeatable at the moment.


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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:25 am

The little hero does it again, herschel jantes a stunner. Boks celebrating the draw.
Hmmm, which one dies Ireland fancy playing in two months time. Toss a coin?
It more about Retallick now for the ABs.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:25 am

It's so weird looking at NZ and not thinking they are invincible. This world cup is wide open.

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Post by ebop on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:27 am

Taylorman wrote:The little hero does it again, herschel jantes a stunner. Boks celebrating the draw.
Hmmm, which one dies Ireland fancy playing in two months time. Toss a coin?
It more about Retallick now for the ABs.
Yeah Retallick news is the news
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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:28 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Boks reffed out of the game in the 2nd half

Funny, didnt hear that comment first half when the ABs were ‘reffed out of it’.

They werent though. Their dicipline was poor. Ref made some pretty harsh calls against the Boks in the second half.

Nah, He missed a knock on where ABs were on attack. Thats hardly a bad call. Hard to call what you dont see.

ABs were making all the play anyway so its not as if the boks were robbed of scoring plays either, but they got the one that mattered.

And ‘reffed out of the game’ is an absurd, overused, emotion guns.

Good result for the boks, wasnt that entertaining, a lot of testing each other out. Smith has to go back to start. Not convinced on the Mo’unga exercise, he struggled initially with the start but is clearly the better goalkicker.


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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:28 am

Taylorman wrote:The little hero does it again, herschel jantes a stunner. Boks celebrating the draw.
Hmmm, which one dies Ireland fancy playing in two months time. Toss a coin?
It more about Retallick now for the ABs.

Agreed. Retallick hasnt been on form for the ABs for a couple of years now though. Maybe Scott Barrett wouldnt be a bad thing?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:30 am

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Boks reffed out of the game in the 2nd half

Funny, didnt hear that comment first half when the ABs were ‘reffed out of it’.

They werent though. Their dicipline was poor. Ref made some pretty harsh calls against the Boks in the second half.

Nah, He missed a knock on where ABs were on attack. Thats hardly a bad call. Hard to call what you dont see.

ABs were making all the play anyway so its not as if the boks were robbed of scoring plays either, but they got the one that mattered.

There were a few harsh calls, Im not saying it was a major factor in the game.

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Post by ebop on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:34 am

SA didn’t offer much tbf
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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:37 am

Oh, ok, ‘reffed out of the game’ isnt a major factor then, all good then. thumbsup

Hope the oz pumas game has more plays. Hershel jantes is going to be a star. Has a knack for making a difference.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:41 am

Taylorman wrote:Oh, ok, ‘reffed out of the game’ isnt a major factor then, all good then. thumbsup

Hope the oz pumas game has more plays. Hershel jantes is going to be a star. Has a knack for making a difference.

I said in the second half (up to that point). Anyway it wasnt really a major factor as a draw was probably a fair result.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:58 am

Taylorman wrote:Oh, ok, ‘reffed out of the game’ isnt a major factor then, all good then. thumbsup

Hope the oz pumas game has more plays. Hershel jantes is going to be a star. Has a knack for making a difference.

Looks like defense might win this RWC. Some low scoring games in the rugby championship.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 11:11 am

The attacking intent is there, its just theyre starting at this level after nine months of no tests. SA oz match yielded five plus tries and looking at the argie match theyre running everything so theres still the attitude that defences are there to be beaten, which is great.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 11:39 am

For the ABs, we still have Savea and or Cane to return, Smith must start, that was never going to work. Reece may come back as well.

Mo’unga, Read, Reiko, Ben Smith, SBW all need more matches to find form.

Boks will get better and now may win the RC with the away draw here, and the BP win in SA. We can console ourselves with the fact that no RC winner has won the World cup. Whistle

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Post by No9 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 12:57 pm

Hummmm... getting clearer. Wales to win RWC and Gats one step closer to the All Black job he wants.


Welsh rugby, really is the training ground for All Black coaches.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 4:34 pm

If that were the case they would have won in 2007, so no, much undoing and learning had to be done over the 8 years as AB coaches to finally win in 2011.

We cant wait that long again if gats goes in. Whistle

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Post by ebop on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 5:33 pm

Sigh...it’s like Ireland all over again, lol

Come on wales, step up
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 5:40 pm

Dont you have a loss, a marginal unconvincing win and a draw in your last three games? What are you boasting about Ebop?

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Post by ebop on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 5:48 pm

Step aside Guns, you’re not from Wales
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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 5:50 pm

We certainly missed Savea and possibly Cane tonight, Read and Todd just arent physical enough.

But this is what these matches are about, finding out where players are at. Been exactly the same last two world cups where we lost matches then too. Hansen didnt look the least concerned. Retallicks a concern but this is rugby. People get injured.

Weve far more players to call on than most sides, despite the drain and if Retallick doesnt travel to Japan, best to know now and get others in. I like Hemopo, if anything hes a stronger ball carrier. Hes no Retallick but has impressed. Barrett will return from injury soon as well.

Fozzie described them as hard and flat first half...too flat and throwing hard passes that werent sticking. A lot of that went on, so softer hands required, plus the return of Aaron Smith to give Mo’unga a bit more time.

SH sides are in a pretty good state by the oz result as well. World cup year. So far so good.

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