New Zealand vs South Africa - Pool B Game 1 - 21st September 2019

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 25 Jul - 2:31

First topic message reminder :

Erasmus has made 12 changes to the Springbok team that beat Australia, with Vermeulen back as captain. This team is arguably their strongest right now which is why this fixture has peaked my interest. It’ll be interesting to see how the AB selectors respond.

Springboks team to face New Zealand in Wellington:

Willie le Roux, Cheslin Kolbe, Lukhanyo Am, Damian de Allende, Makazole Mapimpi, Handré Pollard, Faf de Klerk, Duane Vermeulen, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Kwagga Smith, Franco Mostert, Eben Etzebeth, Frans Malherbe, Malcolm Marx, Steven Kitshoff. Replacements: Bongi Mbonambi, Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, R.G. Snyman, Francois Louw, Herschel Jantjies, Frans Steyn, Jesse Kriel.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/27247481/duane-vermeulen-lead-springboks-all-blacks

All Blacks:

1. Joe Moody (37)
2. Codie Taylor (41)
3. Owen Franks (106)
4. Brodie Retallick (76)
5. Samuel Whitelock (108)
6. Shannon Frizell (4)
7. Matt Todd (17)
8. Kieran Read - captain (118)
9. TJ Perenara (55)
10. Richie Mo’unga (9)
11. Rieko Ioane (24)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (51)
13. Jack Goodhue (7)
14. Ben Smith (77)
15. Beauden Barrett (74)
16. Dane Coles (61)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (27)
18. Angus Ta’avao (4)
19. Vaea Fifita (10)
20. Dalton Papalii (2)
21. Aaron Smith (83)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (34)
23. George Bridge (1)


Last edited by LondonTiger on Thu 19 Sep - 23:05; edited 4 times in total

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Post by Old Man on Sat 21 Sep - 21:36

Springboks are going nowhere in this world cup, one dimensional and as I expected rush defence been found out.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 21 Sep - 21:45

The SA side was totally over hyped going into the tournament. Good team but I cant see them making the final.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 21 Sep - 22:41

No surprise it was a bit of a mess with Garces, should have seen him in the Wales v Ireland game.

Old Man wrote:Springboks are going nowhere in this world cup, one dimensional and as I expected rush defence been found out.

That's probably enough to beat most of the others teams, just not NZ.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 21 Sep - 23:43

Aye having been so good last time out, it was a surprise Garces missed some things today.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 21 Sep - 23:43

I am developing a bit of a man crush on Cheslin Kolbe.

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Post by Old Man on Sat 21 Sep - 23:54

LondonTiger wrote:I am developing a bit of a man crush on Cheslin Kolbe.

Yep, if I was a woman I would have a lady boner.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 21 Sep - 23:56

Springboks plated well in the first half then fell off the boil. 

While NZ wonded   what the hell was happening in that first half, was able to come together with some great plays and skills to prove they ( NZ) will be hard to beat in this RWC.

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Post by Pal Joey on Sun 22 Sep - 0:15

majesticimperialman wrote:Springboks plated well in the first half then fell off the boil. 


Food for thought I guess. I missed the first dish but the main course was half decent.
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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 22 Sep - 0:20

Pal Joey wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Springboks plated well in the first half then fell off the boil. 


Food for thought I guess. I missed the first dish but the main course was half decent.

ooopppss not even drunk yet and misspelling "WORDS ALL READY."

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Post by The Oracle on Sun 22 Sep - 0:22

Shocked
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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 22 Sep - 0:27

majesticimperialman wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Springboks plated well in the first half then fell off the boil. 


Food for thought I guess. I missed the first dish but the main course was half decent.

ooopppss not even drunk yet and misspelling "WORDS ALL READY."

Also getting confused about what went on. SA had a strong first 20 minutes and a really poor second 20. They were probably the better team in the second half.

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Post by miaow on Sun 22 Sep - 1:10

New Zealand looked a cut above today. Thought it would be a little bit more open, with both teams feeling each other out. This was agame that felt more like a final that a group game. NZ have to be happy with that, Kolbe aside SA really didn't have too much in attack, as was always expected. Ireland SA could be a brutal QF if that's what we get - two fairly conservative, forward and posession oriented sides.

But for all SA's control of the game, they never really seemed to have NZ under pressure or panicking. They can be a bit disgruntled with the way Garces allowed NZ to approach the breakdown where SA didn't get rewarded for similar play, but by and large SA didn't go enough with the positional dominance.

Faf can't box kick either.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 22 Sep - 8:44

Pretty happy with that result. Key takeaway is how they’ve managed to negate some of the rush defence so well by breaking play up all over the place. The resulting two tries showed terrible individual efforts on both Barrett, who was given a huge gap that didn’t seem to want to close, and Anton LBrown who just danced around straggling arms.

Savea was huge again but Barrett is something else, already up there with the best fullbacks.

Other than probably England the rest are going to be playing stop the ABs.

Who knows...they just might.

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Post by miaow on Sun 22 Sep - 9:02

One thing I will say in defence of SA, this wasn't a winner takes all game. Quite the opposite.

Yeah,  Ireland are tricky, but SA would likely face Eng in the SFs if they topped the group. At this stage, practically, there's not too much harm losing this game. The only benefit is psychological, and tactical.

And I think Rassie's been clever here. He's basically had a 'tester' against the All Blacks. He's seen what worked, what didn't - NZ overplayed at times, they can be suffocated with territory and posession, their aerial game didnt look great, scrums are there to be challenged, and perhaps the big one, if you slow the game down you can control it. The caveat to that is NZ can spark it from static ball, and are lethal from turnovers with a broken field. They've seen NZ will likely play the ref well, and that SA suffered from a lack of breakdown threat - the refs seem to be giving a lot of time to the attacking team to get the ball back, which see saw in the warm ups. There were also issues with the Boks, not least accuracy, composure, goalkicking, and definitely box kicking.

But SA did nothing inventive. They didn't really move the ball. The tactic seemed to be literally switch the play back and forward at each ruck. Go left, go right, go left, go right. Slow, slow, one-out, big drive.

If these two teams meet in the final, what we've basically seen here is the sparring, and I don't suppose Erasmus will be too displeased with what he saw. You can tinker and add to what worked today and, if it comes off on the day, they could beat the ABs in the final, not least by using their backs more, and I think we'll see some changes to the outside backs in particular over the course of the tournament. Possibly a shake-up at 9 as well. They just have to get to the final first...

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 22 Sep - 9:17

Geez not the way I saw it, Fafs kicking game was well below that of Smith’s. Boks got onto all sorts of problems and the scrum went ok, winning all 8 of their own plus one against the head. We did lose a couple of line outs.
ABs also kicked more, passed more, ran more, tackled more etc etc.

One thing knowing what to do and doing it. Hansen’s said the Bok defence will throw up opportunities if we can take them and that’s what made the diff. The Mo’unga kicks to Reece resulted in a try and he can do that because the bok rush defence brings players in so they’re tighter on defence, so Reece is initially unmarked.

The penalty for the tap down was ‘gutless’ refereeing as Read said but we are used to poor decisions from Garces.

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Post by westisbest on Sun 22 Sep - 16:32

Italy running away with it now. 35-7 in wet conditions.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 22 Sep - 17:00

Although Italy are winning by 20 points Namibibia  are putting in  some good moves and making it not so easy for Italy.

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Post by maestegmafia on Sun 22 Sep - 23:54

Graham Henry choosing not to mince his words when it comes to pitchside interviews on Kiwi Sky Sports

https://twitter.com/sparknzsport/status/1175339373203603456?s=20

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Post by miaow on Mon 23 Sep - 1:47

Namibia much improved. Lots of continuity in personnel on and off field from the last RWC. Good sign that the money World Rugby used to pay Phil Davies is paying off. Great performance. Surprised Italy look so poor, there has to be more from them, surely.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 23 Sep - 2:31

maestegmafia wrote:Graham Henry choosing not to mince his words when it comes to pitchside interviews on Kiwi Sky Sports

https://twitter.com/sparknzsport/status/1175339373203603456?s=20

There is only one Graham Henry. Hope the Kiwi Sky Sports people didn't rush out a panicked 'apology' for the comment made 'on air'. Gulp, Horror, International incident!

Every knows what "Schidting themselves" means, and there is no more descriptive way in the English language of describing that feeling.

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Post by miaow on Mon 23 Sep - 2:35

What time would it be in NZ during the game as well? Surely after the watershed?

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 23 Sep - 2:36

SecretFly wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Graham Henry choosing not to mince his words when it comes to pitchside interviews on Kiwi Sky Sports

https://twitter.com/sparknzsport/status/1175339373203603456?s=20

There is only one Graham Henry.  Hope the Kiwi Sky Sports people didn't rush out a panicked 'apology' for the comment made 'on air'.   Gulp, Horror, International incident!

Every knows what "Schidting themselves" means, and there is no more descriptive way in the English language of describing that feeling.

I thought it was hilarious. Reminded me of Billy Birmingham’s impersonations of the late great Richie Beneaud commentating on Australian Cricket tests.

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Post by alanmackie6 on Mon 23 Sep - 7:52

TMAN long time no speak,Todd needs to improve his defence?he`s a tackling machine.
Retalick back for QFs,probably off the bench,both sides kno Shocked w what to work on.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 23 Sep - 10:30

Yes hi ya matey thumbsup
Todd played well this year, the mobility stuff suits an all rounder like him. Like you, there’s a lot more left in him! thumbsup

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 24 Sep - 5:45

SA werent happy with the ref at all

https://youtu.be/1Oj1pMWo4oE

Think Moody and Read were lucky to avoid cards to be fair

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Post by miaow on Tue 24 Sep - 9:09

Around 2:10 in that video is exactly the kind of decision I was talking about in the Welsh thread praising Luke Pearce for judging correctly. French refs are the worst at calling any sort of spill or drop a knock on - yet forward passes...they're fine.

EDIT: Watched the rest of the video. Actually remember clocking quite a few of those live but never really registering as favouritism/misses by the ref. Such is the power of the black shirt, I suppose - to refs and neutrals alike. Quite a few obviously you don't see. I remember the first Moody scrum and being confused, but Moody's shoulder to Marx is inexcusable. That's a complete joke. Good video find, puts in to perspective this idea about NZ's purity in rugby. Scott Barrett's deserved, to-the-letter red card had the NZ media up in arms, and yet look how entrenched it is within the game. It's not the SBW-style shoulder hits, it's the subtle, off the ball ones - the ones that soften your opposition up, the ones the TMO jobsworth won't worry about, the ones that stop the opposition in ways no legal action can. All teams do it, of course, to an extent. You just want to see all teams judged fairly. Would be interesting to see the Kiwi version of that video as I felt Garces basically deferred from making decisions either way that outright favouring NZ, but it may be that he did end up favouring them heavily. Really good video. Important. It's not just one area, and it's really not a grey 'down to interpretation' thing. They're all explicit.


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Post by ebop on Tue 24 Sep - 9:15

Pretty neat footage

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/116039422/canon-reveal-unseen-footage-of-all-black-george-bridges-rugby-world-cup-try
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Post by miaow on Tue 24 Sep - 9:23

That feels a bit gimmicky. It's nothing like being on a rugby field, and you also don't really get a sense of the tactical manipulation of space. It also looks like a computer game. Dunno, world keeps moving forward, and that's fine, but there's a limit to this 'immersive' stuff and I'm not a fan. Will the whole world have VR headsets for sporting games in 20 years time? Seems a sad consequence of commercialism if so. Ref cam was bad enough. Catering to the Sky Sports never-leave-the-sofa-to-lace-up-my-boots fans it seems.

Would be interesting to see a player cam for the shoulder charge to Marx's head though, maybe...

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 24 Sep - 17:03

Yes true the technology needs to be improved but that’s how that works these days. They could use it for TMO calls in the same way they use predictive for LBW’s, and with even better technology they could even find out who’s scoring all Ireland’s tries under all those bodies. Whistle

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Post by The Oracle on Tue 24 Sep - 17:26

Maybe they could get into players minds and determine intent too! Whistle
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 24 Sep - 17:39

The Oracle wrote:Maybe they could get into players minds and determine intent too! Whistle


Oh that's on the way. The prototype system is called 606v2 for now but I'm sure they'll change it to something sexier when it's fully operational.

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Post by The Oracle on Tue 24 Sep - 17:45

SecretFly wrote:
The Oracle wrote:Maybe they could get into players minds and determine intent too! Whistle


Oh that's on the way.  The prototype system is called 606v2 for now but I'm sure they'll change it to something sexier when it's fully operational.


Laugh

You can tell it's a prototype. Those 606v2 'bots' can never seem to agree!
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