Scotland vs France World Cup Warm Up Match - Toonie Strikes Back! Saturday 24th August

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Post by bsando on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 2:25 pm

Toonie Strikes Back!

Following on from the disastrous "New Hope" instalment last weekend all we can hope for is a no nonsense first team showing with the soul intention of righting some wrongs. France have named their side and it is full strength! They are clearly looking to win well at Murrayfield and consolidate some positions having already named their 31 man squad. Only Finnsanity can save the day...

Venue: BT Murrayfield 1:10pm KO

Teams

Scotland

1. Gordon Reid (Ayrshire Bulls) – 35 caps
2. George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 6 caps
3. Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 29 caps
4. Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 cap
5. Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 5 caps
6. Ryan Wilson VICE CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors) – 43 caps
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 25 caps
8. Blade Thomson (Scarlets) – uncapped
9. Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Clermont Auvergne) – 71 caps
10. Finn Russell (Racing 92) – 44 caps
11. Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 40 caps
12. Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 41 caps
13. Chris Harris (Gloucester) – 8 caps
14. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 50 caps
15. Stuart Hogg VICE CAPTAIN (Exeter Chiefs) – 68 caps

Bench
16. Grant Stewart (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
17. Allan Dell (London Irish) – 22 caps
18. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh)– 20 caps
19. Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 34 caps
20. John Barclay (Edinburgh) – 72 caps
21. George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
22. Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints) – 1 cap
23. Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – 12 caps

France

1.Poirot
2.Guirado
3.Slimani
4.Lambey
5.Vahaamahina
6.Iturria
7.Ollivon
8.Alldritt
9.Dupont
10.Lopez
11.Raka
12.Fofana
13.Fickou
14.Penaud
15.Ramos

Bench: Chat, Baille, Setiano, Taofifenua, Camara, Serin, Ntamack, Médard


Last edited by bsando on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 8:03 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 2:30 pm

As I said on the other thread France look seriously strong. They've picked good players in their right position, which should be but hasn't been a given. Despite being pretty rubbish for the previous 4 years it looks like they've decided to show up for these warm-up games at least (of course there still is time for the wheels to come off before the cup).

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 2:32 pm

Fofana and Fickou swapping shirts from last game?

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 2:37 pm

Pick your team to play France:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49335172

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 2:56 pm

That is pretty much the same side except for the guy with the dodgy clear out being dropped and some fiddling about with the 2 and 15. Considerable talent if they can play as a team.

Scotland need to sort out speed of ball in a significant way for this one. It is disappointing with Barclay and Ritchie on the field to see that we struggled to generate quick ball and/or slow down the opposition. We have a number of things to work on, but one of them is winning the battle up front. McInally has developed a reputation as a top hooker and Chat dominated him.

I would generally change almost the entire line-up. A message has to go out to most of the players that if you are not going to take every game seriously, there may not be a second chance. There are too many good players desperate for the opportunity to go to a World Cup for players to not go 100% every time on the pitch. Gilchrist and Price can go to the press and say they want to make amends all they like. We need to be more brutal than that. You don't fight hard enough, you are dropped.


Would like to see (assuming only S Johnson is injured)

Dell - McInally - Nel (Reid - Brown - Z Fagerson)
Cummings - J Gray (S Skinner)
Thomson - Bradbury - Watson (Wilson)

G Horne - Russell (Laidlaw)
P Horne - Hutchinson (Taylor)
Seymour - Hogg - Kinghorn (Maitland)

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Post by bsando on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 4:03 pm

For me, this team would be my choice

Dell, Brown, Nel
Skinner, Gray
Wilson (C), Thomson, Watson
Laidlaw, Russell
Taylor, Jones
Maitland, Hogg, Seymour

Bench: Stewart, Reid, Fagerson, Toolis, Bradbury, Price, P Horne, Graham

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Post by 123456789. on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 4:17 pm

I'd hope for:

Dell, MacInally, Nel
Skinner, Gray
Thomson, Bradbury, Watson
Laidlaw, Russell
Taylor, Jones
Maitland, Hogg, Seymour

On the basis that this game is comparable to the Lions warm-ups that take an importance to the wider tour. On its own it's not individually important but in the wider picture it's a big deal. We've built up a decent home record against the French in recent years. A poor performance and even two thumping victories against Georgia leave a humongous question mark. More importantly defeat means we cannot afford to rotate in either Georgia game as losing three out of four warm-ups is really not good. However I suspect the team will feature Horne, Harris, Brown and Wilson.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 4:45 pm

Brown I dont mind as hes a good player who hasnt really let us down.

Harris Horne and Wilson (now there's a law firm if I ever head one) however are utter garbage and the only reason they should be playing is as cannon fodder to preserve the good players for the world cup.
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Post by Anglobraveheart on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 4:51 pm

I think we need to look at combinations, wherever possible, so I would look at:
Reid, Turner, Fagerson (Dell, McInally, Nel)
Gray, Skinner
Thompson, Bradbury, Watson (Ritchie, Fagerson)
Horne G, Russell (Laidlaw)
Taylor, Jones (Hutchinson)
Maitland, Hogg, Seymour (Graham)

Thompson to be 2nd row sub if required, but tbh Gray and Skinner have 80 minute engines.
I'd also look at Thompson and Bradbury to empty their tanks in the first 60, then Ritchie and Fagerson M to put 60 mins effort into the last 20.
Laidlaw or Hutch to cover 10.
Ideally, I don't want Wilson, Gilchrist, Strauss, Harris, McGuigan or Horne P involved.
Hastings, Kinghorn and to a lesser extent Price on the naughty step.

My centres to go to Japan are Johnson, Jones, Taylor, Hutchison.

Horne P, McGuigan, Harris, Kinghorn stay at home for Japan. Along with Wilson, Gilchrist, Strauss and young Stewart.

13 Backs, 18 forwards.
Gray R standby forward.
Kinghorn and Horne P standby backs.

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Post by Anglobraveheart on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 4:53 pm

Brown and Johnson not fit yet. Hopefully against Georgia.

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Post by 123456789. on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 4:59 pm

tigertattie wrote:Brown I dont mind as hes a good player who hasnt really let us down.

Harris Horne and Wilson (now there's a law firm if I ever head one) however are utter garbage and the only reason they should be playing is as cannon fodder to preserve the good players for the world cup.

Don't want to be pernickety. I do agree with Brown being a good player but on the 'hasn't really let us down'. Brown was part of the lineout fiasco in 2015 (although probably didn't call it), got himself yellow carded against England in 2017 and gave away the penalty in March that got them into our 22. It sounds harsh but it's these wee things we'll need to fix if we want to get to the latter stages of World Cups and win the big six nations games.

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Post by bsando on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 5:09 pm

123456789. wrote:
tigertattie wrote:Brown I dont mind as hes a good player who hasnt really let us down.

Harris Horne and Wilson (now there's a law firm if I ever head one) however are utter garbage and the only reason they should be playing is as cannon fodder to preserve the good players for the world cup.

Don't want to be pernickety. I do agree with Brown being a good player but on the 'hasn't really let us down'. Brown was part of the lineout fiasco in 2015 (although probably didn't call it), got himself yellow carded against England in 2017 and gave away the penalty in March that got them into our 22. It sounds harsh but it's these wee things we'll need to fix if we want to get to the latter stages of World Cups and win the big six nations games.

Yes his daft penalty against England after all the hard work was incredibly frustrating. There was no need to compete the way he did at that ruck, a case of being too eager and not considering the wider implication of his actions for the team. He's a solid ball carrier like MacInally but MacInally has the better rugby brain I think. Turner Certainly has the ability I think he needs to take any opportunity well though becuase Stewart to me looks like a very good prospect. He did very well in the Pro14 final despite the result and looked very mobile in the loose.

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Post by Anglobraveheart on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 5:14 pm

Do you really think Stewart is big enough for international rugby?

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Post by BigGee on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 5:44 pm

I see the French second row who did the flying headbut on JB got 6 weeks.

That seems about right. I wonder if they will still take him to Japan?

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Post by sensisball on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 5:54 pm

They are already taking le Roux who is currently serving a three game ban for foul play from the end of last season. He misses all three french warm up games so dont know if they will take another suspended lock. Although, head butting aside, he had a tidy game last week.

Taofifenua is the reserve squad lock, and he is on the bench this Saturday. If he has a big (but legal) impact in the second half then he might play his way into the final squad.

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Post by R!skysports on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 6:06 pm

Well as Townsend has not learnt since he took over to overcome these issues, I have little faith he will do for the World Cup

We are still stagnating / going backwards so unless he has an apithany I do not see much hole of a ‘success’ of scraping out of our group

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Post by 123456789. on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 8:34 pm

I’m not sure this World Cup should be used as a measure of success for this team. Simply put, losing to Ireland but winning every group game then losing to New Zealand or South Africa represents a standard. But we could play very poorly and achieve that or play very well and achieve that. There is a huge gulf between defeat to Japan and victory against any of the Tier One teams.
That’s why I think that for the foreseeable Scotland should put much more stock on the six nations than the World Cup. A World Cup for Scotland usually involves two games against Tier One competition whereas a Six Nations involves five. Simply put until we’re a team that has a high chance of success we shouldn’t be putting priority on the World Cup.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 8:56 pm

Scotland could beat SA or NZ in the quarters, dont rule it out.

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Post by reallybored on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 9:51 pm

I think Brown is a far better captain than McInally but he’s not as good in attack. But with our current malaise and lack of leadership, if he was fully fit I would definitely be starting him as captain.

For me the issue with defence is purely down to mind-set, we’ve totally lost the aggression and hunger to get the ball back. Too often we’re passive and consistently on the back-foot. We need guys who’ve got some bite and niggle, that want to get off the line and smash someone.

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Post by RDW on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 8:32 am

123456789. wrote:I’m not sure this World Cup should be used as a measure of success for this team. Simply put, losing to Ireland but winning every group game then losing to New Zealand or South Africa represents a standard. But we could play very poorly and achieve that or play very well and achieve that. There is a huge gulf between defeat to Japan and victory against any of the Tier One teams.
That’s why I think that for the foreseeable Scotland should put much more stock on the six nations than the World Cup. A World Cup for Scotland usually involves two games against Tier One competition whereas a Six Nations involves five. Simply put until we’re a team that has a high chance of success we shouldn’t be putting priority on the World Cup.

I 100% agree with this. I've never understood why the World Cup is always so much of a focus. It's a fantastic spectacle but a team like Scotland should be really targeting the 6N as a yardstick for progress, especially when Wales, Ireland and England are now there or there abouts at the top of world rugby.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 8:56 am

Yes but not getting out of a world cup group is hardly a glowing review of our talent. I'm sure you'd feel differently if we'd reached the semi final in 2015.

We need to at least target a quarter as we do every wc. Then why not target going further? We always stand a better chance on neutral ground and are more likely to produce upsets when the fixtures are a one off.

Yes we really need to improve in the 6Ns and actually win it at some point before this generation go to seed but doing well in the world cup and success in the 6 nations aren't exactly mutually exclusive. Also this is the longest the squad has together of any comp, so is a great chance to improve the cohesiveness (not that any was shown in France) of the squad. That, in theory, should impact on future training for the 6Ns in hopefully a positive way.
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Post by RDW on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 9:09 am

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying we should forfeit world cup performance in place of 6N - of course I want us to do well!

I just don't see why we work in world cup cycles of 4 years instead of building up to a specific 6N year - say one where we have 3 games at home so most chance of doing well.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 9:15 am

To be fair i don't think this is the case, every 6 nations is pretty big. Its not like they're treated like the autumn internationals or summer tour. Our problem is a combination of psychology, depth (or lack of), and lately our defence (definite lack of). I wouldn't say our win deficiency is because we're thinking about the next world cup.
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Post by BigGee on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 9:18 am

The thing about the world cup is that it is different.

Different teams, different format and some knockout games.

We take the 6N on face value as a brilliant competition but we are also probably a little bit complacent about it.

The world cup has been a brilliant addition to the rugby calender. It allows the players longer times away from their clubs and better preperation, there really are no excuses, they should be fresh and ready to go and play their best.

The 4 year format also allows other natural cycles to take place. Changes of coaches, players thinking about retirement, chances for fans to visit other parts of the world.

It is certainly not the be all and end all, the WC, but it is increasingly seen as a pinnicle above all other tournaments.

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Post by EST on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 9:20 am

Am I right in thinking that Johnson, Bradbury and Brown are out of commission?

If that's the case, i'd go with the following:

Dell
McInally
Nel
Gray
Skinner
Wilson
Watson
Thomson

Laidlaw
Russell
Maitland
Taylor
Hutchinson
Seymour
Hogg

Reid
Turner
Fagerson Snr
Cummings
Fagerson jnr
Horne
Hastings
Graham

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 9:22 am

RDW wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm not saying we should forfeit world cup performance in place of 6N - of course I want us to do well!

I just don't see why we work in world cup cycles of 4 years instead of building up to a specific 6N year - say one where we have 3 games at home so most chance of doing well.

All teams should go into each season with a set of objectives. It does seem in teh past that Scotland have perhaps tried to "excuse away" a poor 6Ns performance because it is building to a WC. 

If you are saying Scotland need to make Murrayfield a place they do not lose at, I agree. However their record and performances at home have been pretty solid in recent years. Away form has not been good though. 4 away wins in teh Six nations in the last 10 years with 3 being against Italy. The Scottish team has to start playing better away from home.

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Post by RDW on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 9:24 am

LondonTiger wrote:
RDW wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm not saying we should forfeit world cup performance in place of 6N - of course I want us to do well!

I just don't see why we work in world cup cycles of 4 years instead of building up to a specific 6N year - say one where we have 3 games at home so most chance of doing well.

All teams should go into each season with a set of objectives. It does seem in teh past that Scotland have perhaps tried to "excuse away" a poor 6Ns performance because it is building to a WC. 

If you are saying Scotland need to make Murrayfield a place they do not lose at, I agree. However their record and performances at home have been pretty solid in recent years. Away form has not been good though. 4 away wins in teh Six nations in the last 10 years with 3 being against Italy. The Scottish team has to start playing better away from home.

We're certainly all in agreement with that.

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Post by RDW on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 9:34 am

Team announced at 11:30

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 9:51 am

Reckon this may be toonies 1st XV or as close to as we'll see. I'd hazard a guess at:
Dell
McInally (c)
Nel
Skinner
Gray
Wilson
Watson
Fagerson

Laidlaw
Russell

Maitland
Taylor/Horne
Hutch?
Seymour
Hogg

Bench
Turner
Reid
Berghan
Gilcho
Thomson
Horne jr
Hastings
Harris
Graham
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Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 11:33 am

Hoggy the only player to keep his place. Wholesale changes

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Post by RDW on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 11:34 am

I'm not convinced this team is going to fair much better than last week's - the pack in particular!

Also not sure why they're playing Hogg so much.

Full-back Stuart Hogg is the only player to be reselected in the starting Scotland side as several experienced campaigners return for this Saturday’s Summer Test rematch against France at BT Murrayfield Stadium (kick-off 1.10pm) – live on Premier Sports.

Scotland’s biggest stadium is poised for its 15th consecutive capacity crowd – with limited tickets remaining – before which the national team aims to bounce back from their 32-3 defeat at the hands of Les Bleus in Nice last weekend.

Scotland Head Coach, Gregor Townsend, said: “Our first outing of the season was a disappointment and not reflective of the hard work our players have put in over the past two months.

"France are a very dangerous side if you give them space and quick ball to play, which is what we allowed to happen on too many occasions last week. Our focus all week has been to remedy this and also create much more from our attacking game.

“It was a stark reminder of how tough things can be at international level if our standards slip.

"We expect our players to show a much truer picture of themselves this Saturday.

"France have selected another strong side so it will be a great challenge for us to deliver a much-improved performance.”
Head Coach Gregor Townsend
Scotland’s starting back division is bookended by familiar partnerships and British & Irish Lions, as Hogg is joined by Saracens and Glasgow Warriors wings Sean Maitland and Tommy Seymour for their 19th Test start as a trio.

Continuing the thread of familiarity are Racing 92 stand-off Finn Russell and Clermont Auvergne scrum-half Greig Laidlaw, who captains the side.

The pair will equal the starting partnership appearances of fellow Scottish Lions Gary Armstrong and Craig Chalmers (32) and will then be three starts short of equalling the record-holding half-back partnership of Greig’s uncle Roy Laidlaw and stand-off John Rutherford.


Laidlaw and Russell return at half-back

At the opposite end of the international experience spectrum is Scarlets number 8 Blade Thomson, who will make his long-awaited Test debut in a back-row featuring Edinburgh’s Hamish Watson and Glasgow Warriors’ Ryan Wilson for the first time this campaign.

Fellow Warrior Scott Cummings is promoted from the bench position from which he debuted last weekend, alongside Exeter Chiefs lock Sam Skinner, and behind a new front-row trio of Gordon Reid (Ayrshire Bulls), Willem Nel (Edinburgh) and hooker George Turner (Glasgow Warriors), who starts his second Scotland Test.

The side is completed by a new starting midfield partnership of Glasgow Warriors’ 41-times capped Pete Horne and Gloucester’s Chris Harris, while Glasgow Warriors hooker Grant Stewart could make his debut if called upon from the bench.

Scotland team to play France at BT Murrayfield Stadium
Saturday 24 August, kick-off 1.10pm – live on Premier Sports

15. Stuart Hogg VICE CAPTAIN (Exeter Chiefs) – 68 caps

14. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 50 caps
13. Chris Harris (Gloucester) – 8 caps
12. Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 41 caps
11. Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 40 caps

10. Finn Russell (Racing 92) – 44 caps
9. Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Clermont Auvergne) – 71 caps

1. Gordon Reid (Ayrshire Bulls) – 35 caps
2. George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 6 caps
3. Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 29 caps
4. Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 cap
5. Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 5 caps
6. Ryan Wilson VICE CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors) – 43 caps
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 25 caps
8. Blade Thomson (Scarlets) – uncapped

Substitutes:
16. Grant Stewart (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
17. Allan Dell (London Irish) – 22 caps
18. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh)– 20 caps
19. Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 34 caps
20. John Barclay (Edinburgh) – 72 caps
21. George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
22. Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints) – 1 cap
23. Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – 12 caps

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Post by EST on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 11:42 am

Difficult to know what to make of that team, probably about the same number of players as last week that could be classified as definite starters?

I wonder if Jonny is injured, I would have thought they would have wanted to give him a game against France.

I'm excited to see how the Blade goes, but that midfield looks really, really average.

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Post by RDW on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 11:47 am

Only two of the pack I'd say were guaranteed starters (Watson and Nel), with Russell and the back 3 the only guaranteed starters in the backs. There's decent experience in the pack on the bench and plenty impact from the backs.

Could be a long afternoon though!

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Post by BigGee on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 12:09 pm

Johny Gray was sitting out training apparently, so may have some minor injury.

To me it looks like a stronger pack than last week, certainly a bit more dog in it with Wilson, Thompson and Skinner on board

Still probably a long way away from our starting team though.

It will be good to see what the back three bring to the party and whether the rumours of harris being really impressive in trainning are true

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Post by jimbopip on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 12:19 pm

Well it's Tombola time again Shocked Shocked Shocked

Where to begin?

Toonie commented that some players had let themselves down and wouldn't be getting the chance to make amends this weekend. By which I assumed that two or three would be leaving the squad; Bhatti, Barry, Bluto and Blarehorn were my candidates. However, to make 14, yes 14, changes is ultra-Toonie. It's almost classic France.

Shrek-Turner-Nel is a smallish front row but hopefully it's about getting under their opposite numbers' skins (literally?) at scrum time a la Lions in South Africa when Toonie was 10. A good showing from Berghan and Dell and Bhatti can go home by tea time on Saturday.

Cummings- Skinner  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked I can almost here the conversation at training, "The locks didn't do well enough in Nice. Boys, if you want to play in Yokohama show me what you can do on Saturday." Certainly there is plenty of mobility in that pairing. Let's hope there is also enough dog in it.

Batman-Blade-Hamish.  Scotland vs France World Cup Warm Up Match - Toonie Strikes Back! Saturday 24th August 1347041234 Niggle, niggle, niggle. I expect to see the French ball slowed down, lots of shoving and pointing when the whistle blows and possible a bit of two falls and a submission every time the ball is on the floor. oh yeah If they gel as a unit, that could be a really effective back row. A real openside  OK abig nasty lump at 8 OK and a 6 who will be chucking hand grenades all day long. thumbsup  OK  Whistle What's not to like?

Frodo-Dancer will not be phased by the French, actually it may work the other way.

Double aitch in the centres??? The fact that Taylor is not in the 23 may mean that he has not recovered as quickly from the battering he took last week. Or maybe the plan was to use the Georgia games to get him up to speed if he survived last week. I know some on this forum have "slight reservations" over Furra Linee's defence, well Fickou and Fofana will give him a proper test. Harris seems defensively sound but the question will be whether a back row which can produce quick ball, Finnsanity at 10 and a second playmaker at 12 will allow us to see what it is that Toonie likes about him. If Taylor and Not A Pony are fit and healthy then it just may be that whoever makes way for Hutch is the one who will miss the plane.

First choice back three. OK I think D'arcy is being rested rather than dropped. King Blarehorn on the other hand will probably get 25 minutes to convince Toonie that he should be in the squad.  Too little, too late methinks.

There are a lot of ifs and buts. If the front five can impose themselves in the attritional battles. If the back row can totally fecc up the French sang froid. If the double aitch can defend the line.

We can win this.

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Post by reallybored on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 1:12 pm

jimbopip wrote:Well it's Tombola time again Shocked Shocked Shocked

Where to begin?

Toonie commented that some players had let themselves down and wouldn't be getting the chance to make amends this weekend. By which I assumed that two or three would be leaving the squad; Bhatti, Barry, Bluto and Blarehorn were my candidates. However, to make 14, yes 14, changes is ultra-Toonie. It's almost classic France.
Why would you get rid of Kinghorn? I'd be expecting 5 back-three to travel if we take 14 backs.

I'd give Bhatti another chance against Georgia, he did finish the season in good form for Glasgow and don't rate Reid as being any better.  All props have the occasional off-days in the scrum.

I think Barclay is playing to stay in the squad.

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Post by EST on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 1:20 pm

BigGee wrote:Johny Gray was sitting out training apparently, so may have some minor injury.

To me it looks like a stronger pack than last week, certainly a bit more dog in it with Wilson, Thompson and Skinner on board

Still probably a long way away from our starting team though.

It will be good to see what the back three bring to the party and whether the rumours of harris being really impressive in trainning are true

I'm intrigued to see how he goes as well - it's a big moment for him, starting in his favoured position in a strong backline.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 1:26 pm

Hm. Not sure i agree with harris starting tbh...

The rest, ok should be interesting. If jonny is injured I'd say get richie in as a "contingency" just before squad announcement, then include him
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Post by bsando on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 1:27 pm

Pack looks good! Reid and Nel could be a decent FR pairing. Both solid scummagers who may well anchor the scrum well with their squat frames. A big chance for turner to try and usurp Brown in the hooker pecking order. Stewart also has a great shot off the bench to carry on his good form at Glasgow. He'll add a bit of energy when he gets on the park if the game is open.

Lock partnership is an interesting one, both big aggressive ball carriers but will have to see how they fair in the scrum. I'm glad Skinner is playing where he thinks he is best suited. A good showing from Cummings may end Toolis's chances of touring as he didn't show up too well last week apart from at lineout time.

Toonie picked the backrow I had hoped to see so I'm quite happy about that. Looking forward to see how Thomson does and if he'll be jumping in the lineouts like Denton did during the last RWC. I think Wilson is a 6 not an 8 as he just loves to do all the dirty work rather than carry aggressively and look to offload the ball. It'll be interesting to see how he goes defensively but I think he'll do well. Also glad to see he'll be VC.

Backline looks good too but P Horne and Harris?? That could be a stroke of genius or complete shambles. Both players will need to play well as currently most of us have them down as not touring.

Strong bench as well and interesting to see Hutchinson possibly covering Russell. Although P Horne may slot in and Hutchinson move to 12. Glad Barcs has recovered to play again this weekend.

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Post by bsando on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 1:32 pm

reallybored wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Well it's Tombola time again Shocked Shocked Shocked

Where to begin?

Toonie commented that some players had let themselves down and wouldn't be getting the chance to make amends this weekend. By which I assumed that two or three would be leaving the squad; Bhatti, Barry, Bluto and Blarehorn were my candidates. However, to make 14, yes 14, changes is ultra-Toonie. It's almost classic France.
Why would you get rid of Kinghorn? I'd be expecting 5 back-three to travel if we take 14 backs.

I'd give Bhatti another chance against Georgia, he did finish the season in good form for Glasgow and don't rate Reid as being any better.  All props have the occasional off-days in the scrum.

I think Barclay is playing to stay in the squad.

I personally think Bhatti is the better ball carrier and fitter, but Reid is the better scrummager and despite being nothing special, a solid all round player. If he made mistakes he'd be nowhere near the team but he keeps the errors fairly low.

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Post by BigGee on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 1:38 pm

15. Stuart Hogg VICE CAPTAIN (Exeter Chiefs) – On the plane

14. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – On the plane
13. Chris Harris (Gloucester) – Rumours of good form in camp, all to play for
12. Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – Under pressure, needs to show up
11. Sean Maitland (Saracens) – On the plane

10. Finn Russell (Racing 92) – On the plane
9. Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Clermont Auvergne) – On the plane

1. Gordon Reid (Ayrshire Bulls) – Bhatti failed his audition last week, so game on
2. George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – On the plane
3. Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – On the plane
4. Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) – All to play for, Toolis also dissapointed
5. Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – On the plane
6. Ryan Wilson VICE CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors) – All to play for
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – On the plane
8. Blade Thomson (Scarlets) – Will go if he shows up, unlike Strauss

Substitutes:
16. Grant Stewart (Glasgow Warriors) – Only likely to go if injuries
17. Allan Dell (London Irish) – On the plane
18. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh)– On the plane
19. Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – Nearly on the plane, but not at best last week
20. John Barclay (Edinburgh) – Still some work to do
21. George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – On the plane
22. Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints) – Almost, another good cameo needed
23. Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – Poor last week, a lot still to do

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Post by reallybored on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 1:45 pm

bsando wrote:
reallybored wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Well it's Tombola time again Shocked Shocked Shocked

Where to begin?

Toonie commented that some players had let themselves down and wouldn't be getting the chance to make amends this weekend. By which I assumed that two or three would be leaving the squad; Bhatti, Barry, Bluto and Blarehorn were my candidates. However, to make 14, yes 14, changes is ultra-Toonie. It's almost classic France.
Why would you get rid of Kinghorn? I'd be expecting 5 back-three to travel if we take 14 backs.

I'd give Bhatti another chance against Georgia, he did finish the season in good form for Glasgow and don't rate Reid as being any better.  All props have the occasional off-days in the scrum.

I think Barclay is playing to stay in the squad.

I personally think Bhatti is the better ball carrier and fitter, but Reid is the better scrummager and despite being nothing special, a solid all round player. If he made mistakes he'd be nowhere near the team but he keeps the errors fairly low.
That's pretty fair but I'd still give Bhatti a half against Georgia to see how he does in scrum.


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Post by jimbopip on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 1:57 pm

reallybored wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Well it's Tombola time again Shocked Shocked Shocked

Where to begin?

Toonie commented that some players had let themselves down and wouldn't be getting the chance to make amends this weekend. By which I assumed that two or three would be leaving the squad; Bhatti, Barry, Bluto and Blarehorn were my candidates. However, to make 14, yes 14, changes is ultra-Toonie. It's almost classic France.
Why would you get rid of Kinghorn? Where to begin? Until he improves his decision making he isn't playing to his potential. Haircut's form and Taylor's lack of gametime mean Horne may go as 10/12 cover. Toonie will probably go with an 18/13 split, he often had a 6/2 bench in his Glasgow days. I'd be expecting 5 back-three to travel if we take 14 backs.

I'd give Bhatti another chance against Georgia, he did finish the season in good form for Glasgow and don't rate Reid as being any better.  All props have the occasional off-days in the scrum.

I think Barclay is playing to stay in the squad.

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 2:20 pm

I'm not overly surprised at the wholesale changes and I think this is not because Toonie has "dropped" players for bad performances last week, but rather he is giving everyone a chance in the first two games to see if they put their hands up.

I think he'll then use the two Georgia games to build momentum going into the W/C and the players going to Japan will be in the squads for these games to get them "match sharp"

Just my humble opinion.
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Post by bsando on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 2:22 pm

jimbopip wrote:
reallybored wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Well it's Tombola time again Shocked Shocked Shocked

Where to begin?

Toonie commented that some players had let themselves down and wouldn't be getting the chance to make amends this weekend. By which I assumed that two or three would be leaving the squad; Bhatti, Barry, Bluto and Blarehorn were my candidates. However, to make 14, yes 14, changes is ultra-Toonie. It's almost classic France.
Why would you get rid of Kinghorn? Where to begin? Until he improves his decision making he isn't playing to his potential. Haircut's form and Taylor's lack of gametime mean Horne may go as 10/12 cover. Toonie will probably go with an 18/13 split, he often had a 6/2 bench in his Glasgow days. I'd be expecting 5 back-three to travel if we take 14 backs.

I'd give Bhatti another chance against Georgia, he did finish the season in good form for Glasgow and don't rate Reid as being any better.  All props have the occasional off-days in the scrum.

I think Barclay is playing to stay in the squad.

Quote problems?

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Post by bsando on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 2:25 pm

reallybored wrote:
bsando wrote:
reallybored wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Well it's Tombola time again Shocked Shocked Shocked

Where to begin?

Toonie commented that some players had let themselves down and wouldn't be getting the chance to make amends this weekend. By which I assumed that two or three would be leaving the squad; Bhatti, Barry, Bluto and Blarehorn were my candidates. However, to make 14, yes 14, changes is ultra-Toonie. It's almost classic France.
Why would you get rid of Kinghorn? I'd be expecting 5 back-three to travel if we take 14 backs.

I'd give Bhatti another chance against Georgia, he did finish the season in good form for Glasgow and don't rate Reid as being any better.  All props have the occasional off-days in the scrum.

I think Barclay is playing to stay in the squad.

I personally think Bhatti is the better ball carrier and fitter, but Reid is the better scrummager and despite being nothing special, a solid all round player. If he made mistakes he'd be nowhere near the team but he keeps the errors fairly low.
That's pretty fair but I'd still give Bhatti a half against Georgia to see how he does in scrum.


Yeah absolutely, only one game in so far. Plus I'm sure there'll be some injury call ups (what is the rules surrounding that?) so if Scotland can come away with everyone of the 40 players getting some decent game time that would be preferable.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 2:34 pm

BG - Turner did not do so much last week as to guarantee a spot. If he is dismal here, Stewart could yet take him out. I would put him in the almost assured of a spot on the plane

Cummings and Skinner will have to be effective in the scrum AND at the line-out if they are usurping Toolis. Toolis offers a level of effectiveness in the line-out above every other player we have (bar maybe R Gray). We have gone the dynamic route in our back five and it is going to be interesting to see if the additional speed in the locks helps unlock faster ball (clear outs and better offloading).

Our scrum has to show up and do well. We can't expect to get far in the RWC if we are getting marched backwards by Ireland and, probably, SA should we get out the group.

Hutchinson deserved a start after last week, however Harris gets an opportunity to stake a claim. Unfortunately, he is likely to be the beneficiary of playing the come back game with better ball that is going to make him look better. H Jones consistently had rubbish to work with.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 2:45 pm

Zero balance in that second row and the French front row will make mince meat of the technique free zone that is fatty Reid at loosehead. I'm getting increasing angry about Richie Gray not being in this squad.

Wilson deserves a chance at 6, which is worrying, and I've never seen Thomson play so jury out for me. Shame that we're blooding him in international rugby on the eve of the World Cup.

Backs are fine apart from Harris. Don't rate him at all. Bennett and Hutchinson both superior for me, as is an off form Huw Jones.

Not hopeful for the weekend, but I'll be going along for my sins....

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Post by RDW on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 2:50 pm

Blade is not only new to International rugby he's new to European rugby - his severe concussion against Edinburgh was right at the beginning of the season so he's barely played at all away from NZ.

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Post by reallybored on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 2:59 pm

jimbopip wrote:
Where to begin? Until he improves his decision making he isn't playing to his potential.  
So we should only play guys that are playing to their full potential?  Could probably drop 90% of the squad in that case.

He played well during the 6 Nations before getting injured and Edinburgh looked half the attacking team during the run in without him.
jimbopip wrote:
Haircut's form and Taylor's lack of gametime mean Horne may go as 10/12 cover.
Seem to remember Hastings having a good end to the season with Glasgow and played especially well in the Final against Leinster.  But you're right, lets judge him on his first game of the pre-season when he was behind a pack that got decimated.

You may be right with Horne but worth bearing in mind that in terms of fly-half cover behind Russell & Hastings you've got Laidlaw, Hogg and Hutchinson.
jimbopip wrote:
Toonie will probably go with an 18/13 split, he often had a 6/2 bench in his Glasgow days.
Has he done it with Scotland?

I think playing Berghan at LH suggests he's looking at 5 props which would mean he'd be taking 10 back-five forwards, which I think is unlikely.

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