Scotland vs France World Cup Warm Up Match - Toonie Strikes Back! Saturday 24th August

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Post by bsando on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 2:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

Toonie Strikes Back!

Following on from the disastrous "New Hope" instalment last weekend all we can hope for is a no nonsense first team showing with the soul intention of righting some wrongs. France have named their side and it is full strength! They are clearly looking to win well at Murrayfield and consolidate some positions having already named their 31 man squad. Only Finnsanity can save the day...

Venue: BT Murrayfield 1:10pm KO

Teams

Scotland

1. Gordon Reid (Ayrshire Bulls) – 35 caps
2. George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 6 caps
3. Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 29 caps
4. Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 cap
5. Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 5 caps
6. Ryan Wilson VICE CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors) – 43 caps
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 25 caps
8. Blade Thomson (Scarlets) – uncapped
9. Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Clermont Auvergne) – 71 caps
10. Finn Russell (Racing 92) – 44 caps
11. Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 40 caps
12. Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 41 caps
13. Chris Harris (Gloucester) – 8 caps
14. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 50 caps
15. Stuart Hogg VICE CAPTAIN (Exeter Chiefs) – 68 caps

Bench
16. Grant Stewart (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
17. Allan Dell (London Irish) – 22 caps
18. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh)– 20 caps
19. Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 34 caps
20. John Barclay (Edinburgh) – 72 caps
21. George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
22. Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints) – 1 cap
23. Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – 12 caps

France

1.Poirot
2.Guirado
3.Slimani
4.Lambey
5.Vahaamahina
6.Iturria
7.Ollivon
8.Alldritt
9.Dupont
10.Lopez
11.Raka
12.Fofana
13.Fickou
14.Penaud
15.Ramos

Bench: Chat, Baille, Setiano, Taofifenua, Camara, Serin, Ntamack, Médard


Last edited by bsando on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 8:03 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 12:40 pm

Weir may well be our version of Stephen Donald by the time the RWC comes round.
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Post by tigertattie on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 1:17 pm

If Weir ends up playing in the World Cup final and slots over the winning penalty, Andy Murray will need to hand him his wee medal he got from Liz that makes him a Sir!
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Post by TJ on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 1:34 pm

:-)

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 2:01 pm

To be fair to Weir, he has turned himself into an average FH in the Aviva Premiership. For a long period, that would have been good enough to be a starting FH for Scotland.

As much as we make fun of him, he is two injuries from being on the plane to Japan and he is probably good enough for Scotland to make the quarters.

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 2:26 pm

tigertattie wrote:[quoote="EWT Spoons"]
George Carlin wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Good chat, everyone.

With Skinner out, it does potentially open the door for Fagerson as a bolter. Radio silence on Mr Snow (Bradbury) so I guess he's out of favour.

He's injured
Coke will do that to you. Allegedly.

Are you getting Hardie mixed up with Bradbury, or have you heard something?

Bradbury is out just now due to a rib injury picked up in training.
I'm starting a rumour.

Like the one about Jim being able to use the quote function correctly every time now.

That's never going to catch on, it's just too unbelievable




I dont see how folk can mess up using it!!! [/quote]

Coke will do that to you. Allegedly Erm

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 2:44 pm

GC been chucking out scandalous accusations again?
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Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 3:01 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:To be fair to Weir, he has turned himself into an average FH in the Aviva Premiership. For a long period, that would have been good enough to be a starting FH for Scotland.

As much as we make fun of him, he is two injuries from being on the plane to Japan and he is probably good enough for Scotland to make the quarters.

I think he's likely behind:

Finn
Hastings
Horne
Laidlaw
Hutchinson

Given they are all currently in the squad and he's not. I realise most are there for other positions, but can do a job at 10.

In short I think it would take a hell of an injury crisis for him to be called up.

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 3:07 pm

Aye, there's a veritable blizzard whirling around GC.

I have watched the highlights again...someone had to. two points;

When Batman gives away the penalty at the ruck he tries to explain that Ramos jumps back out of the ruck. Barnes very clearly says, and act out with his hands, that Batman was fine right up until he grabbed Ramos' ankles and thus tackled him to the floor. So, in retrospect it was a clear cut penalty and not the brightest thing Batman did on Saturday.

Secondly, for the first try...as the ball is heading towards Furra Linee, Penaud is looking at a three on one; he has Harris as his man, Hogg is hitting the line inside Harris and NoMaits is all alone on the wing. Penaud decides to gamble all on the interception. Furra Linee gets man and ball, which is not that unusual if you are getting the pass from Frodo, he has obviously had the call to pass and does well to move the ball while being clattered. To me it's a little bit like the hooker getting all the blame when a lineout is not functioning: there are at least four or five links in the chain but the most visible one is the man who throws the ball. Also, whenever we score off an interception it's always because of our great defence putting unbearable pressure on the opposition. Whenever, we concede one it's because we're feccin eejits. chin

I can't stand warm up games. There's no satisfaction in winning and very little consolation in defeat.

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Post by TJ on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 3:30 pm

Glass half empty Jimbo?

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 3:44 pm

Not quite TJ. cider

But, if we had beaten the French 17-14 in the 6 Nations we would all be happy bunnies.
I think the positives on Saturday outweighed the negatives. Mind you, if Principal is Friar Tucked that is a big blow.

However, we spend far too much time picking individual performances apart and for too little time considering that it's about getting people ready for Yokohama.or wherever it is in Nipponshire we're playing
I thought the backs ALL did well on Saturday. Would I put that back division out against Ireland? Not a chance.
The starting scrum did very well against the French, will that 8 be packing down against the Irish? Highly unlikely.

I think the problem with warm ups is it allows us to get too hypercritical. Come the real thing where we only have 31 players and seven of them are injured the it'll be a lot easier.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 3:52 pm

Cant blame Frodo

He gets the ball out to Nel who then had 10m of space in front of him. It's clearly a pre planned move as Nel then passes it to Finn who is standing directly behind him. Cummings is running in on a dummy line which no one really believes.

Finn chucks it to Horne and he is looking at where he is passing it to and how he does not see Penaud is beyond me. The ball is supposed to go to Hogg and even Hogg checks his run in readyness for trying to tackle Penaud who is about to collect the ball. Hogg clutches at air as Penaud jumps passed him leaving Blade to try catch Penaud which aint happening and Maitland is left standing on the wing staring at what has unfolded afore his eyes.

Horne should never ever have attempted the pass the ball that flat. He should have either fired it back to Hogg or stopped the move.

Hogg should also have shouted for Horne to take the ball into contact, or if you want to argue that Hogg wasnt looking up at Penaud then Maitland should have been the one screaming. Even if it was for Horne to put a grubber through for Maitland to chase!

Horne doesnt really get man and ball, hes jsut not given that much time, but this is the issue with Horne and International rugby, you dont get as much time as you do at club level. Horne fluffs his lines and in goes Penaud. Horne does it time and time again!
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Post by Tramptastic on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 4:20 pm

So what do we think in terms of the centres for the next game? Do we give Johnson and Hutchinson the start neither of them have had or do we give Jones another shot to see if he can front up to a challenge?

Personally I don't think we can leave Huw Jones out - he's proper good when he gets going. Give him more game time outside Johnson and see how that pairing goes, preserve Taylor for the home fixture against Georgia, give hutchinson time off the bench if Johnson is looking in good nick.

If Jones is pants against Georgia then leave him behind, with the caveat that he's first on the reserves list. There's no space for relaxing at test match level and he needs to be putting down a marker against smaller teams, not just the big matches.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 5:04 pm

Tough one Tramp and this is why Toonie gets the big bucks.

You need to balance up

A - Giving Taylor and SJ game time
B - Not re-injuring anyone
C - Giving Hutch a start
D - Giving Jones another shot
E - Finalising the team/game plan

Absolute nightmare compounded by the issue that no one really knows who the starting centres should be.

I Admire Taylor but his utter lack of gametime this year really should have left him out the squad. The same should be said of Jones but his pedigree gives him a bit slack.

I honestly think our best centre pairing would be SJ and Hutch but they simply have run out of time to try them out. Hutch should have been in the 6Ns squad.

I know Jimbo is the loyal defender of Horne at 12 (who also allegedly covers 10) but I cant see how Horne can be considered when he has not only fialed to "nail down" a spot, but shown again he can be a liability at international rugby.

Notice how I've not been able to actually give you the names of who I think should go??? Its a tough call!
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Post by BigGee on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 5:07 pm

I can see Jones and Hutch starting at 13 in thd last 2 games

They could both go if they bith perform and Horne likely to be the one to miss out

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 6:49 pm

Rewatching the France game and I have a feeling that the centre selection conundrum may have taken a turn, for better or worse I'm not sure. In the minutes immediately prior to going off Furra Linee seems to adopt a very restricted gait. At first I thought he was wearing boots that were to small for him, but he also starts to position himself further wide than you'd expect from a 13. Certainly when he goes off he looks miserable and the coaches are very subdued. I suspect a very tight hamstring.
So, if he's crocked and Spacey not 100% match fit, Johnson not fit yet, who starts against Ireland?

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Post by 123456789. on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 7:16 pm

If Taylor isn't fit for the Ireland game he is not fit for the world cup as far as I'm concerned. Duncan Taylor might not have played a lot of rugby in the last couple of years but if Townsend intends on taking him and starting him then it's his job to make sure he uses these four games to get him up to match speed. If he doesn't feel he's match fit then he shouldn't be travelling at all. After all, we should be beating Samoa, Russia and Japan comfortably. Ireland is our only big question mark, so if a player is not ready for the 22nd then we should look at alternatives. Given all of our players will have a minimum four months between club rugby and world cup rugby, I see no reason he'd be less 'match fit' than Horne. He's had a full pre-season. It's worth noting that I think injury or not Horne has played himself into the last chance saloon. That intercept pass showed exactly why several of us question whether he is international standard. There was no need to chuck that pass, same as there was no need to send the pass to Stockdale in the Six Nations a couple of years back. For me Johnson, Taylor and Jones travel, leaving a space for Harris, Hutchinson or Horne. I'd take Hutchinson. In the big games Jones has scored tries, Horne has fluffed two on ones, missed tackles and thrown intercept passes.

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Post by 123456789. on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 8:45 pm

On an entirely unrelated, and largely irrelevant note. I was speaking with a sort of part-time rugby fan friend of mine. He pointed out it was odd that Japan were hosting the world cup when 'traditional' rugby nations like Ireland, Scotland, Argentina and Italy were yet to have a shot. I, naturally, tried to point out that it wouldn't be suitable for Scotland for several reason but left myself thoroughly unconvinced. Effectively leaving the question, could we host a world cup? In 2011 New Zealand hosted with one 60,000 seater stadium, Eden Park. Comparably we have Ibrox, Celtic Park, Hampden and Murrayfield in that similar ball park. They then had seven sub 30,000 seaters; we have Pittodrie, Easter Road, Tynecastle and Rugby Park in that area. Chuck in Scotstoun and Netherdale for the really wee games and perhaps you're looking at a viable bid with upgrades to stadiums in Dundee and Inverness or meandered to Northern Ireland, Sunderland and Newcastle for games. Of course it's a stretch but I think we just about have the facilities, the question then being if there's the appetite and the finances. The former I think is answered by the Commonwealth games being such a success the latter I think I'm right in saying that the world cup is mainly a booster for the coffers. The only real issue I can think is dealing with the football clubs in that period. But England managed it.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 8:57 pm

So how did Blade Thomson go, and how bad is his injury?

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Post by RDW on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 9:50 pm

It was a competent debut Mikey without really standing out. It's a real shame he went off so early in the 2nd half just as we were getting going.

No word yet on his recovery - given how long he was out with the last concussion they certainly wont risk him.

He was on the pitch with his family after and taking pictures in the changing room so it wasn't a serious one. You can never tell though!

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Post by reallybored on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 10:00 pm

Backrow and centre selection this weekend are fascinating, everything else is pretty much sorted imo.

Backrow would take too long to explain my thinking suffice to say I’d take Watson, Wilson, Bradbury, Ritchie & Fagerson to RWC.

I agree with 123456789 about Taylor, don’t take him unless he’s ready for Ireland. And with Tramptastic that Jones is too good to leave behind. Plus Johnson needs minutes this weekend.

With that in mind this weekend I’d start Johnson with Taylor for first 50/60 minutes then bring Jones on for Johnson. Next weekend play Taylor with whoever looked most promising.

Then for the 4th centre spot, Townsend needs to make a call on what he’s seen so far: Horne’s experience vs Harris dependability vs Hutchinson’s potential x-factor?

If they’re likely to be paired with Jones for one of Russia or Samoa, who would be the best choice?

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Post by BigGee on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 7:45 am

In answer to your question TJ

I think things have moved on since the NZ WC

The sudsquent ones in England and Japan and the following one in France have and will take the infrustructure requirements to a new level and i think we would struggle now.

I would suspect our only hope would be to borrow some grounds, such as St James Park in the north of England, or a combined bid with either/or Wales and Ireland

The WC is becomming a big big event now, even NZ would have to put something togethrt a lot better than last time when they inevitably hold it again at some stage

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Post by TJ on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 8:20 am

wisnae my question !

Interesting in the planet rugby team of the week discussed in another thread that Shrek gets a place.  I did think he did well bad one carp pass

Anyone got a stats site?  My go to ESPN scrum.com does not have anything on the scotland game!  I need to see meaningless stats!

Edit - found some - panic over https://www.rugbypass.com/live/internationals/scotland-vs-france-at-bt-murrayfield-stadium-on-24082019/2019/stats/

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Post by bsando on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 9:08 am

Possible side for Georgia in Tsibili

1. Reid
2. Brown (if fit)
3. Fagerson
4. Toolis
5. Gray
6. Bradbury (if fit)
7. Ritchie
8. Fagerson
9. Horne
10. Hastings
11. McGuigan
12. Johnson
13. Jones
14. Graham
15. Taylor

Bench: Stewart, Berghan, Bhatti, Cummings, Wilson, Price, Russell, Kinghorn

So from 2 games against an improved French side, Scotland have done okay. Away was a poor result but home was a solid team performance, fairly similar to the last game Scotland won against France at home. Overall I'd say there's positive signs with a lot to improve on. The speed of play and defence was improved at home but nothing close to the fastest brand of rugby in the world.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 9:24 am

123456789. wrote:On an entirely unrelated, and largely irrelevant note. I was speaking with a sort of part-time rugby fan friend of mine. He pointed out it was odd that Japan were hosting the world cup when 'traditional' rugby nations like Ireland, Scotland, Argentina and Italy were yet to have a shot. I, naturally, tried to point out that it wouldn't be suitable for Scotland for several reason but left myself thoroughly unconvinced. Effectively leaving the question, could we host a world cup? In 2011 New Zealand hosted with one 60,000 seater stadium, Eden Park. Comparably we have Ibrox, Celtic Park, Hampden and Murrayfield in that similar ball park. They then had seven sub 30,000 seaters; we have Pittodrie, Easter Road, Tynecastle and Rugby Park in that area. Chuck in Scotstoun and Netherdale for the really wee games and perhaps you're looking at a viable bid with upgrades to stadiums in Dundee and Inverness or meandered to Northern Ireland, Sunderland and Newcastle for games. Of course it's a stretch but I think we just about have the facilities, the question then being if there's the appetite and the finances. The former I think is answered by the Commonwealth games being such a success the latter I think I'm right in saying that the world cup is mainly a booster for the coffers. The only real issue I can think is dealing with the football clubs in that period. But England managed it.

I'm not 100% on the rules around stadia etc, but if it's anything like international football tournaments there can only be two stadiums used within a location.  So having Hampden, Celtic Park & Ibrox all in Glasgow would be no use to us, as only two of them could be used.  Which would also therefore rule out Scotstoun etc.  Once/if Aberdeen get their new stadium then that might be an option but I don't think it's going to be on par capacity wise.  Realistically then we only have two in Glasgow and Murrayfield as stadiums that meet the capacity requirements.  It might be possible for some games to be held in smaller venues around the country, but I'm not sure.

In short if we were to host, it would likely need to be a joint venture with the like of Wales (although I don't think they have the infrastructure to really make a dent in what would be needed), so Ireland would possibly be a more suited option, but I fear that bridge is burnt following us voting against their bid.

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Post by RDW on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 10:10 am

Looking at the ESPN stats of the game Wilson apparently only made 3 tackles! That's awful for a number 6 if true.

https://www.rugbypass.com/live/internationals/scotland-vs-france-at-bt-murrayfield-stadium-on-24082019/2019/stats/

Not sure how they can be trusted though as apparently Skinner made 5 turnovers (surely not?) and they missed Gilchrist's lineout steal.

Hamish Watson's stats are truly freakish.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 11:22 am

RDW wrote:Looking at the ESPN stats of the game Wilson apparently only made 3 tackles! That's awful for a number 6 if true.

https://www.rugbypass.com/live/internationals/scotland-vs-france-at-bt-murrayfield-stadium-on-24082019/2019/stats/

Not sure how they can be trusted though as apparently Skinner made 5 turnovers (surely not?) and they missed Gilchrist's lineout steal.

Hamish Watson's stats are truly freakish.

Well his "tackle" on the French player at the ruck wont have been counted.

If he only made 3 tackles then he needs punted no questions asked. I used to make more tackles than that and I spent most of the games I played in walking between rucks!
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Post by Tramptastic on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 11:25 am

tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:Looking at the ESPN stats of the game Wilson apparently only made 3 tackles! That's awful for a number 6 if true.

https://www.rugbypass.com/live/internationals/scotland-vs-france-at-bt-murrayfield-stadium-on-24082019/2019/stats/

Not sure how they can be trusted though as apparently Skinner made 5 turnovers (surely not?) and they missed Gilchrist's lineout steal.

Hamish Watson's stats are truly freakish.

Well his "tackle" on the French player at the ruck wont have been counted.

If he only made 3 tackles then he needs punted no questions asked. I used to make more tackles than that and I spent most of the games I played in walking between rucks!

Walking between rucks OR guarding that midfield space Wink

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Post by jimbopip on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 11:45 am

Tramptastic wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:Looking at the ESPN stats of the game Wilson apparently only made 3 tackles! That's awful for a number 6 if true.

https://www.rugbypass.com/live/internationals/scotland-vs-france-at-bt-murrayfield-stadium-on-24082019/2019/stats/

Not sure how they can be trusted though as apparently Skinner made 5 turnovers (surely not?) and they missed Gilchrist's lineout steal.

Hamish Watson's stats are truly freakish.

Well his "tackle" on the French player at the ruck wont have been counted.

If he only made 3 tackles then he needs punted no questions asked. I used to make more tackles than that and I spent most of the games I played in walking between rucks!

Walking between rucks OR guarding that midfield space Wink  

I alternated between "reading the play and being in the right space" aka waiting for the rucks to come to me, and "saw the play developing and took up the optimistic attacking line" aka stood on the wing waiting for the ball to come.

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Post by 123456789. on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 12:00 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
123456789. wrote:On an entirely unrelated, and largely irrelevant note. I was speaking with a sort of part-time rugby fan friend of mine. He pointed out it was odd that Japan were hosting the world cup when 'traditional' rugby nations like Ireland, Scotland, Argentina and Italy were yet to have a shot. I, naturally, tried to point out that it wouldn't be suitable for Scotland for several reason but left myself thoroughly unconvinced. Effectively leaving the question, could we host a world cup? In 2011 New Zealand hosted with one 60,000 seater stadium, Eden Park. Comparably we have Ibrox, Celtic Park, Hampden and Murrayfield in that similar ball park. They then had seven sub 30,000 seaters; we have Pittodrie, Easter Road, Tynecastle and Rugby Park in that area. Chuck in Scotstoun and Netherdale for the really wee games and perhaps you're looking at a viable bid with upgrades to stadiums in Dundee and Inverness or meandered to Northern Ireland, Sunderland and Newcastle for games. Of course it's a stretch but I think we just about have the facilities, the question then being if there's the appetite and the finances. The former I think is answered by the Commonwealth games being such a success the latter I think I'm right in saying that the world cup is mainly a booster for the coffers. The only real issue I can think is dealing with the football clubs in that period. But England managed it.

I'm not 100% on the rules around stadia etc, but if it's anything like international football tournaments there can only be two stadiums used within a location.  So having Hampden, Celtic Park & Ibrox all in Glasgow would be no use to us, as only two of them could be used.  Which would also therefore rule out Scotstoun etc.  Once/if Aberdeen get their new stadium then that might be an option but I don't think it's going to be on par capacity wise.  Realistically then we only have two in Glasgow and Murrayfield as stadiums that meet the capacity requirements.  It might be possible for some games to be held in smaller venues around the country, but I'm not sure.

In short if we were to host, it would likely need to be a joint venture with the like of Wales (although I don't think they have the infrastructure to really make a dent in what would be needed), so Ireland would possibly be a more suited option, but I fear that bridge is burnt following us voting against their bid.

In 2015 there was three in London, although having three in Glasgow and three in Edinburgh might be a bit excessive. I suspect the way to do it would be to temporarily extend Scotland to include the Stadium of Light in Sunderland and St. James' Park in Newcastle as well as potentially Ravenhill. The Welsh have a way of getting the Millenium stadium into every world cup as well. I think of the eight world cups, Cardiff has hosted in four of them. In reality the only way for Scotland to get the world cup would probably be to lead a pan-Celtic bid but I can't see the Irish and Welsh acquiescing to Junior Partner status.

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Post by jimbopip on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 12:03 pm

As for the Georgia games; we might have assumed that we would see a second XV in the away match and a firsts at home. Events seem to have scuppered that plan.

We need an away win like a schemie needs glue, FES needs the latest Boden catalogue. Also, losing to the top second tier side will only eat into our fragile self-confidence even more. We need to beat them like they owe us money.

Also, too many of our supposed first XV haven't been seen yet, or not seen enough. They need to be on the pitch.

So

1. Dell Berghan
2. Rambo Brown
3. Nel Zander
4. Cummings
5. Gilchrist Gray
6. Batman
7. Hamish
8. Matt F Bradbury
9. Wee George Aldi Price
10. Haircut
11. Graham
12. Hutch Harris
13. Not a Pony SJ
14. King Blarehorn
15. Taylor

I would keep Dancer well away from this. Taylor can play 15, I can't see too many opportunities for counter attacking from kicks, the Georgians will most likely keep it tight.

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Post by RDW on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 12:03 pm


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Post by Tramptastic on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 12:04 pm

jimbopip wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:Looking at the ESPN stats of the game Wilson apparently only made 3 tackles! That's awful for a number 6 if true.

https://www.rugbypass.com/live/internationals/scotland-vs-france-at-bt-murrayfield-stadium-on-24082019/2019/stats/

Not sure how they can be trusted though as apparently Skinner made 5 turnovers (surely not?) and they missed Gilchrist's lineout steal.

Hamish Watson's stats are truly freakish.

Well his "tackle" on the French player at the ruck wont have been counted.

If he only made 3 tackles then he needs punted no questions asked. I used to make more tackles than that and I spent most of the games I played in walking between rucks!

Walking between rucks OR guarding that midfield space Wink  

I alternated between "reading the play and being in the right space" aka waiting for the rucks to come to me, and "saw the play developing and took up the optimistic attacking line"  aka stood on the wing waiting for the ball to come.

Play smart, not hard Laugh

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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 12:05 pm

Swinsons been invited to train... are you f##king kidding me?!
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Post by RDW on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 12:06 pm

What the actual F***

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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 12:22 pm

At this point i think there definitely must be something wrong with toonies relationship with Gray. Either that or Tiny Tim has access to the blackmail photos
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Post by George Carlin on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 1:07 pm

Just see that Skinner is officially out of the RWC - shame for him.
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Post by bsando on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 2:34 pm

Thats a blow, he could have been a big part of Scotland’s World Cup. I had been feeling slightly reassured by the fact Richie Gray would be stepping up as a replacement but instead Tim Swinson gets the nod. He must be the luckiest player to beat not just Hamilton in 2015 but now Richie Gray in 2019. Weird decision. I’d like to hear at least, why Townsend is going this way.

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Post by bsando on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 2:37 pm

According to the offside line Richie Gray ruled himself out for family reasons???

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Post by alive555 on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 2:40 pm

So Richie Gray the 6̶t̶h̶ 7th best lock in Scottish rugby

right
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 3:32 pm

bsando wrote:According to the offside line Richie Gray ruled himself out for family reasons???

^ what bsando said. No more conspiracy theories for you lot! warning

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Post by RDW on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 3:35 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
bsando wrote:According to the offside line Richie Gray ruled himself out for family reasons???

^ what bsando said. No more conspiracy theories for you lot! warning

That's much less fun.

Given the controversay this has caused they probably should have made this known in the announcement. Although it would be a bit rubbish on Swinson - basically saying he's the only one left.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 4:56 pm

jimbopip wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:Looking at the ESPN stats of the game Wilson apparently only made 3 tackles! That's awful for a number 6 if true.

https://www.rugbypass.com/live/internationals/scotland-vs-france-at-bt-murrayfield-stadium-on-24082019/2019/stats/

Not sure how they can be trusted though as apparently Skinner made 5 turnovers (surely not?) and they missed Gilchrist's lineout steal.

Hamish Watson's stats are truly freakish.

Well his "tackle" on the French player at the ruck wont have been counted.

If he only made 3 tackles then he needs punted no questions asked. I used to make more tackles than that and I spent most of the games I played in walking between rucks!

Walking between rucks OR guarding that midfield space Wink  

I alternated between "reading the play and being in the right space" aka waiting for the rucks to come to me, and "saw the play developing and took up the optimistic attacking line"  aka stood on the wing waiting for the ball to come.

I've always been an obedient laddie Jimbo. The coach every week said to me "Don't be where the ball is, be where the ball is going to be" - ok, so I may not have been where the ball was going to be next, but at some point during the game it would eventually get to where I was standing.
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Post by jimbopip on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 6:40 pm

Skinner had the muscle scanned at Spire Murrayfield Hospital on the evening of the match, with the time taken to recover deemed insufficient to play a meaningful part in Scotland’s Rugby World Cup 2019 campaign.

Now the above quote could be typical SRU right-hand-left-hand-not knowing- feccup, since we also seem to be told that Principal's hamstring looks like a four week recovery.

Then again it may be a realistic "You'll be home before the quarter finals so why bother flying him out."

I just hope Toonie doesn't decide to take him as an auxiliary 4/6. It hasn't ever worked when he played 6 for Glasgow.
Tim is an aggressive, mobile second row. Is he a very good club player? Undoubtedly. Is he a very good international? Hmm?

So;

Toolis...just about played himself out of the reckoning.
Ickle Jonny..seems to be injured.
Cummings,,,has played really well, but lacks experience.
Gilchrist... to be fair, is beginning to look like the player people thought he could be. But will he continue to improve as the tournament progresses?

Which of them would you drop for Timbo? But then again, which of them would you back against AWJ in a square-go?

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Post by RDW on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 9:13 pm

I like it how Toolis seems to have carried the can for the first game in your world Jimbo - I wonder why that is! He wasn't any worse than anyone else in the team.

He will be going to the world cup barring injury, and I suspect he'll be getting gametime this weekend. The few times our lineout has functioned reasonably well on the last season or two have been when he's been calling it.

Cummings has a competent debut but at 3 carries for 4m and 6 tackles and 2 missed I wouldn't stretch to 'very good'!

With Skinner out both will travel - there's no way Swinson should go over any of the other locks.

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 9:28 pm

Funnily enough the further we get from that first match the worse Toolis’ performance seems to retrospectively be getting! Give it a couple of weeks months and he’ll be as rubbish as P Horne! Erm

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 10:32 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Funnily enough the further we get from that first match the worse Toolis’ performance seems to retrospectively be getting! Give it a couple of weeks months and he’ll be as rubbish as P Horne! Erm

Not possible. Toolis is a forward so is unlikely to Chuck an interception pass or kick the ball out on the full or fail to kick it out at all when time is up.

Peter Horne is the Ryan Wilson of the back line. It’s clear to everyone else that he’s knickers but Toonie and co think he “makes others around him play better”
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