F1 2020 Season

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start this thread since no-one else has yet.

First glimpse of this season's cars as Haas unveil their entry for this year. Not really much difference visually from last season, but then there haven't been any major rule changes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51405017




Have to say I quite like this livery.

Feel free to add more pics as they are released...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

GSC wrote:To be fair to Stroll, he got a mega start and ended up behind Perez before LeClerc tagged him and sent him into the wall.

Screwed by the team in Mugello and qualifying here with car failures, and screwed by inferior drivers after a storming start despite those team issues here.

If that had happened to Perez I'm sure we'd be hearing the conspiracy theorists out in force.

Remind me which driver in the team gets first dibs on upgrades?

Hint: its not Perez.

Marky wrote:You just know that if Stroll had punted Leclerc into the wall, we wouldn't hear the end of it.

But no criticism of Golden Boy Charles I see, just how well he did to get 6th, and ignoring how he should have gotten a penalty for what he did.

At least Charles only smashed somebody into the wall. Didn't do anything really unsafe, like a practice start in the wrong place with nobody around him...

Probably because it happened early on on the race, while the cars were still bunched up and 3 abreast in some places.

I've seen replays of the incident and while Charles could probably have braked earlier / harder, in the meleé that race starts usually are, its a fairly common racing incident. When you're that close you have virtually no time to react.

Its not like Charles did something monumentally stupid or completely avoidable. In those situations its pretty much 50/50 whether you manage to avoid a collision or not.

I think if the roles were reversed Stroll would be taking much more flak than LeClerc is.

It was at best clumsy and not overly different to Hamilton on Albon. He should've backed out and ended Strolls race as a result

Mick Schumacher - Alfa Romeo
Callum Illot - Haas

Will make F1 debuts at Nurburgring in FP1.

Robert Schwartzman will get his opportunity at Abu Dhabi

dyrewolfe wrote:Remind me which driver in the team gets first dibs on upgrades?

Hint: its not Perez.

You say that like most teams wouldn’t give first dibs to the driver staying with the team over the guy who is leaving at the end of the season.

Ferrari sent Vettel out with a broken chassis and don't let him in briefings so that happens yeah

GSC wrote:I think if the roles were reversed Stroll would be taking much more flak than LeClerc is.

It was at best clumsy and not overly different to Hamilton on Albon. He should've backed out and ended Strolls race as a result

Huh? It was nothing like the Albon - Hamilton incident!

That happened well into the race when positions were pretty clearly defined and it was a deliberate overtaking manouevre by Albon, which Hamilton decided to defend unfairly against (IMO).

Could not be more different from a chaotic race start where you're always cramped for space and basically need to look everywhere at once to make sure you don't hit someone.

Personally I'm always willing to give a driver the benefit of the doubt in situations like that...whether I think they're any good or not.

Marky wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:Remind me which driver in the team gets first dibs on upgrades?

Hint: its not Perez.

You say that like most teams wouldn’t give first dibs to the driver staying with the team over the guy who is leaving at the end of the season.

I would think most teams (if they had any sense) would give their best driver first dibs on upgrades, to ensure they finish as high in the constructors' standings as possible...regardless of whether that driver is leaving next season, since that affects how much prize money they receive.

Ideally both drivers would get them at the same time...but when that isn't possible...

GSC wrote:
Ferrari sent Vettel out with a broken chassis and don't let him in briefings so that happens yeah

Seems like a bit of a dick move on the team's part. Okay he's leaving, but he doesn't deserve to be treated like a leper. Unless their parting isn't as amicable as has been reported?

Not really surprised about RP phasing out Perez. Anyway, he will be finally getting the upgraded package in Nurburgring. Not too much damage has been done, having missed two Silverstone GP’s, and two races without the upgrade, he’s only one point behind, Lance.

dyrewolfe wrote:

GSC wrote:I think if the roles were reversed Stroll would be taking much more flak than LeClerc is.

It was at best clumsy and not overly different to Hamilton on Albon. He should've backed out and ended Strolls race as a result

Huh? It was nothing like the Albon - Hamilton incident!

That happened well into the race when positions were pretty clearly defined and it was a deliberate overtaking manouevre by Albon, which Hamilton decided to defend unfairly against (IMO).

Could not be more different from a chaotic race start where you're always cramped for space and basically need to look everywhere at once to make sure you don't hit someone.

Personally I'm always willing to give a driver the benefit of the doubt in situations like that...whether I think they're any good or not.

I don't quite buy that defense tbh. LeClerc knew who he was attacking on track, he ran wide trying to hold his position against an opponent with a much better run around the outside and track position and ran wide into him. it wasn't a first corner melee, it was clumsy accident that he bears all the responsibility for. I would call a marginal racing incident but given Stroll had to retire I'm surprised he wasn't penalised

dyrewolfe wrote:

Marky wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:Remind me which driver in the team gets first dibs on upgrades?

Hint: its not Perez.

You say that like most teams wouldn’t give first dibs to the driver staying with the team over the guy who is leaving at the end of the season.

I would think most teams (if they had any sense) would give their best driver first dibs on upgrades, to ensure they finish as high in the constructors' standings as possible...regardless of whether that driver is leaving next season, since that affects how much prize money they receive.

They already have

Russian billionaire Dmitry Mazepin is in talks to purchase Haas F1. His son Nikita needs top 7 in F2 to gain super licence for 2021.
As such Sergio Perez’s talks with Haas have ended.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Sergio Perez’s talks with Haas have ended 

Blessing in disguise. Perez is eyeing Red Bull.

Just John wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Sergio Perez’s talks with Haas have ended 

Blessing in disguise. Perez is eyeing Red Bull.

Dietrich Mateschitz has put a stop on Perez to Red Bull. Mateschitz has told Marko if they sign a non red bull driver, their young driver academy will be closed.

Perez has been in talks with Williams to replace Lafiti.

Honda quits F1 at the end of 2021.

Red Bull will end up grovelling back to Renault

Horner has burnt every bridge going, but the FIA can intervene and force a supplier to supply an engine to a team without one.

Not totally surprised. Been around for five or six seasons, with relatively little success, and with the current economic situation, Covid, and, with the automotive industry heading towards electric, I can see why Honda have called it a day.

Fairly sure Renault don't have a choice. There's a rule that the manufacturer with the fewest teams has to supply engines. Renault will only supply themselves next season while Mercedes support 4 teams and Ferrari 3

Perez now favourite to join red bull to offset the cost of renewing Renault partnership.

RB seem to change like the wind. One minute it’s not Perez, then it is.

I fully expect Perez in that RB. Honda’s withdrawal means Tsunoda’a dreams are over, so that makes room at Alpha Tauri for Albon to partner Gasly.

Albon will likely to cut from but red bull project. Red Bull open to pay driver at AlphaTauri

Red Bull are faced with a problem now over their future engine supplier. Most certainly it will not be Mercedes and cannot see it being Ferrari. All that leaves them with is Renault which would see the odds-on favourite just now. No sign of any new engine suppliers on the horizon either which is disappointing. Variety is the spice of life.

Does formula one have a future given legislative moves towards banning petrol and diesel powered cars?

Jeff Navarro wrote:

Just John wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Sergio Perez’s talks with Haas have ended 

Blessing in disguise. Perez is eyeing Red Bull.

Dietrich Mateschitz has put a stop on Perez to Red Bull. Mateschitz has told Marko if they sign a non red bull driver, their young driver academy will be closed.

Perez has been in talks with Williams to replace Lafiti.

Ouch! Sergio deserves better than that.

From Williams' perspective it makes sense I suppose, signing a more experienced driver who can help them develop the car.

No name Bertie wrote:
Does formula one have a future given legislative moves towards banning petrol and diesel powered cars?

Of course!

The ban on petrol & diesel is aimed at road vehicles, which are the main source of urban pollution & transport-related greenhouse gas emissions.

The emissions from F1 cars over a season are tiny / insignificant in comparison.

In fact, as was recently highlighted, the main reasons for F1 having such a large carbon footprint are the factories and logistics...and if I remember correctly the logistics is the larger part of that...all the air travel and the huge convoys of trucks they use to ferry the teams' equipment around.

GSC wrote:
Fairly sure Renault don't have a choice. There's a rule that the manufacturer with the fewest teams has to supply engines. Renault will only supply themselves next season while Mercedes support 4 teams and Ferrari 3

Awkward!

I don't see that being a happy relationship.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Red Bull are faced with a problem now over their future engine supplier. Most certainly it will not be Mercedes and cannot see it being Ferrari. All that leaves them with is Renault which would see the odds-on favourite just now. No sign of any new engine suppliers on the horizon either which is disappointing. Variety is the spice of life.

Which is why budget caps and cost-cutting in general is so important for F1's future. Its become so ridiculously expensive even to be a back of the grid team...and who in their right mind is going to invest hundreds of millions just to make up the numbers?

I know you can't stop the march of technology, but the sport needs to at least try and get back to a state, at least financially, where it was 30-40 years ago, when more companies weren't afraid to at least have a go.

As for engines, the hybrid powertrains are ridiculously expensive and there is absolutely no justification for them in F1. The technology is mature enough that all road car manufacturers are building them. They don't need help from F1 R&D. Also the environmental benefits are negligible. F1 would have a far greener image if they used hydrogen-powered trucks to move their equipment around and re-organised the race schedule so they didn't have to criss-cross the globe multiple times over a season.

Hi dyrewolfe, I was thinking that Mercedes and Renault will pull out next, because their main involvement in formula one is the prestige it gives them that ultimately goes into increasing their share of the market for petrol / diesel powered road vehicles. When that market disappears so will the appeal of formula one to them. Maybe this tallies in with the interest I hear Toto Wolff has in the Formula E series. Not sure what Ferrari will do. I assume there will be a limited market in "classic" cars.

Didn't Mercedes put their drivetrain in a road car

dyrewolfe wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Red Bull are faced with a problem now over their future engine supplier. Most certainly it will not be Mercedes and cannot see it being Ferrari. All that leaves them with is Renault which would see the odds-on favourite just now. No sign of any new engine suppliers on the horizon either which is disappointing. Variety is the spice of life.

Which is why budget caps and cost-cutting in general is so important for F1's future. Its become so ridiculously expensive even to be a back of the grid team...and who in their right mind is going to invest hundreds of millions just to make up the numbers?

I know you can't stop the march of technology, but the sport needs to at least try and get back to a state, at least financially, where it was 30-40 years ago, when more companies weren't afraid to at least have a go.

As for engines, the hybrid powertrains are ridiculously expensive and there is absolutely no justification for them in F1. The technology is mature enough that  all road car manufacturers are building them. They don't need help from F1 R&D. Also the environmental benefits are negligible. F1 would have a far greener image if they used hydrogen-powered trucks to move their equipment around and re-organised the race schedule so they didn't have to criss-cross the globe multiple times over a season.

I do fully agree. Take me back to the early 80's. For example in the 1981 F1 season there were six engine manufacturers and six different teams won at least one of the 15 races.

Renault boss Cyril Abiteboul has offered Red Bull and AlphaTauri an ‘olive branch’, the French marquee ‘happy’ to supply engines.
Abiteboul will be loving Horner and Marko coming back tail between their legs.

As I say, I don't think Renault had a choice but might as well play nice

If Mazepin acquires Haas and they swap to Renault power. Ferrari could be on the hook to supply red bull. Which won’t go down very well at Maranello

Maybe, but even then I guess Ferrari would agree to supply alpha Tauri given past relationships and Renault would have to supply RB

No name Bertie wrote:Hi dyrewolfe, I was thinking that Mercedes and Renault will pull out next, because their main involvement in formula one is the prestige it gives them that ultimately goes into increasing their share of the market for petrol / diesel powered road vehicles.  When that market disappears so will the appeal of formula one to them.   Maybe this tallies in with the interest I hear Toto Wolff has in the Formula E series.  Not sure what Ferrari will do.  I assume there will be a limited market  in "classic" cars.

Hey Bertie. Well if thats their only reason for being in F1 then maybe they should pull out and start up Formula E teams.

The main reason for any company to get involved in any sport, be it football, motorsport...whatever...is to get brand exposure. They don't even need to have any involvement or association with the sport. I mean you see car manufacturers, banks, communications companies etc. sponsoring football teams, or getting advertising space in stadiums. Not to mention all sorts of firms plastered over F1 cars that have nothing to do with cars or motorsport (Huski Chocolate and some BWT mineral water anyone?).

Some might see it as hypocritical for car manufacturers that don't produce ICE-powered vehicles, to be involved with F1. If they feel it doesn't fit their corporate image...well, thats up to them.

If they do pull out, thats gonna leave F1 with one hell of a headache, given that Ferrari would be the sole engine supplier...not to mention being down 2 teams. If this did happen, it would force a drastic restructuring of the sport, I feel and bring about a return to the days when privateer teams were in the majority.

GSC wrote:
Didn't Mercedes put their drivetrain in a road car

They did indeed..the Mercedes AMG One. But its really a hypercar for millionaire playboys to thrash around tracks. There are many reasons you wouldn't want a road car with an F1 engine...

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/mercedes-benz/amg-project-one/

dyrewolfe wrote:

The main reason for any company to get involved in any sport, be it football, motorsport...whatever...is to get brand exposure.

Sky F1 came up with a fact regarding Mercedes F1 - Their budget for the year was enormous, but once their winnings were taken into account, the F1 operation only cost something like £15 million last year, which is trivial in the advertising budget of a company the size of Merc. COnsidered money well spent

Mercedes are willing to supply Red Bull, only the senior team, engines if Ineos buys their team.
Mercedes see it as an ‘opportunity’ to have multiple teams using their engines

Liberty and the Brazilian government have agreed to have the race move to Rio de Janeiro. Environmentalists are fuming but I doubt they hold much sway with the Brazilian government

Jeff Navarro wrote:Liberty and the Brazilian government have agreed to have the race move to Rio de Janeiro. Environmentalists are fuming but I doubt they hold much sway with the Brazilian government

If that means another street circuit race, then I'm annoyed as well. Whats wrong with Interlagos (that an overhaul wouldn't fix)?

And yeah - we've all seen how much Bolsonaro cares about the environment...

I think Interlagos is owned by a rival so the Brazilian government can’t sponge money from the event.

Jeff Navarro wrote:I think Interlagos is owned by a rival so the Brazilian government can’t sponge money from the event.

Yes that is as I understand it. Funds just weren't there to bring the circuit up to required standards. A shame as it is a cracking circuit with a bit of character.

The OG Kimi Raikkonen has agreed a one year contract extension at Alfa Romeo. This could be announced on Friday.
Additionally Mick Schumacher’s deal with Alfa Romeo is done and they could do a double announcement.
Must be surreal for Raikkonen, he replaced Michael at Ferrari. Roll forward 14 years and he’s going to partner Mick.

Haas has removed Callum Illot from its potential drivers options for 2021.
Currently they are looking at only Magnussen, Grosjean, Perez and Hulkenberg.
Disappointed for Illot as he may not get another chance with Schwartzman pretty much nailed on for 2022.

Jeff Navarro wrote:The OG Kimi Raikkonen has agreed a one year contract extension at Alfa Romeo. This could be announced on Friday.
Additionally Mick Schumacher’s deal with Alfa Romeo is done and they could do a double announcement.
Must be surreal for Raikkonen, he replaced Michael at Ferrari. Roll forward 14 years and he’s going to partner Mick.

That seems harsh on Giovinazzi, who hasn't done a lot wrong this season

Marky wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:The OG Kimi Raikkonen has agreed a one year contract extension at Alfa Romeo. This could be announced on Friday.
Additionally Mick Schumacher’s deal with Alfa Romeo is done and they could do a double announcement.
Must be surreal for Raikkonen, he replaced Michael at Ferrari. Roll forward 14 years and he’s going to partner Mick.

That seems harsh on Giovinazzi, who hasn't done a lot wrong this season

Not really tbh. It was assumed Giovinazzi would completely batter Raikkonen in 2020 - despite the poor car. But Giovinazzi is still getting out paced by Raikkonen and far too frequently Giovinazzi is smashing the car to pieces.

Still, I wonder if those who have issues with Lance Stroll benefitting from who his dad is, are going to have the same issue with Mick Schumacher benefitting from who his dad is.

Schumacher has earned an opportunity tbh. He won F3 and he’s well placed to win F2. And Prema have openly criticised Schumacher in both his F3 rookie season and his F2 rookie season.

I have heard some commentators say that Schumacher Jr needs a season or two to come good (i.e. rise to the top), whenever he has been promoted to the next level.

The return to the Nurburgring has been a farce so far this weekend. FP1 abandoned due to fog. FP2 delayed due to fog.

Marky wrote:Still, I wonder if those who have issues with Lance Stroll benefitting from who his dad is, are going to have the same issue with Mick Schumacher benefitting from who his dad is.

Last time I checked Mick's dad doesn't own Alfa, or have the clout to ensure his son isn't kicked from the team if he doesn't deliver.

No name Bertie wrote:
I have heard some commentators say that Schumacher Jr needs a season or two to come good (i.e. rise to the top), whenever he has been promoted to the next level.

Thats not exactly unusual, as I understand it. Not many drivers can jump straight into a new car with a new team and hit the ground running. We also shouldn't expect Mick to be as good as his father (not many people are, from the sounds of it).

I think a couple of seasons would be a reasonable amount of time to assess whether he can cut it in F1 or not...assuming he starts decently and makes steady progress. If it turns out he's completely out of his depth (way off the pace, regularly bins his car, hits opponents etc.) I'd expect a swift return to F2...or possibly relegation to test / reserve driver.

Dyrewolfe - if you win the F2 championship you can’t ever return to the series.

Mick main issues in the junior series has been understanding the tyres. Once he cracks it he’s pretty much rampant

The FIA have effectively outlawed reverse engineering a rivals car (RP to Merc)