F1 2020 Season

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start this thread since no-one else has yet.

First glimpse of this season's cars as Haas unveil their entry for this year. Not really much difference visually from last season, but then there haven't been any major rule changes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51405017




Have to say I quite like this livery.

Feel free to add more pics as they are released...

GSC wrote:The FIA have effectively outlawed reverse engineering a rivals car (RP to Merc)

That's good to hear. So what will that mean for Racing Point/Aston Martin next year? Will they need to totally redesign their car or are they able to carry on with this Mercedes in Racing Point clothing?

Fairly sure they have to redesign the relevant parts for next season

This is more to do with 22’ regs and the prevention of having the situation unfold again.

Won’t impact RP/Aston Martin too much. They will have to redesign a few parts here and there, but RP already have all the design information now, they can’t unsee what they know works, and they still have the Mercedes engine, suspension components, and gearbox etc.

Aston Martin’s problem will come in the middle of next year, when they go it alone on a new concept from scratch.

I would fairly or unfairly at this point, that prior to running out of money as Force India, they were consistently running near the top of the midfield. I'm not really sure where the perception they have no pedigree has come from

Red Bull could be about to take over the Honda power unit department. Dr Mateschitz isn’t keen on this but Dr Marko has said it’s the only viable option.

Lance Stroll has some sort of fever potentially covid symptoms. Hulkenberg on standby

GSC wrote:I would fairly or unfairly at this point, that prior to running out of money as Force India, they were consistently running near the top of the midfield. I'm not really sure where the perception they have no pedigree has come from

Fair point. Did some checking and from 2013 onwards Force India either finished 6th, 5th or 4th in the constructors standings (Perez, Hulk and Ocon being the drivers and Sergio managing 4 3rd places in that time).

Whats created such a stink is that they got bought out by a very wealthy consortium who overtly obtained the blueprints to last season's title-winning car and (visually, at least) made barely any changes to it.

Its a noble and praiseworthy thing to be successful on your own terms...but nobody likes it when you just blatantly copy someone else's work. Though it is kinda funny that they went to all that trouble, only to end up being no more competitive than they were before. Though perhaps they did it to try and save on R&D work?

Jeff Navarro wrote:
Red Bull could be about to take over the Honda power unit department. Dr Mateschitz isn’t keen on this but Dr Marko has said it’s the only viable option.

It might well be.

Toto Wolff has come out and said they won't be getting Mercedes engines. Cyril Abiteboul probably isn't thrilled about the idea of having to work with RB again, so maybe they will just have to build their own powertrains "in-house" - re-badged Honda units at least.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Lance Stroll has some sort of fever potentially covid symptoms. Hulkenberg on standby

Get better soon king

Alright....own up. Who on here nobbled Stroll??

Don't disagree with that dyre, more the idea that RP/AM will suddenly catapult to the back of the grid once they can't copy the Merc. History suggests they're currently where they tend to finish anyway

Looks like hulk will take Stroll’s place. Been seen in the paddock in full racing suit.

Be awks if Hulk beats Perez

GSC wrote:Be awks if Hulk beats Perez

I’d imagine Sergio sees him off, unlike, Lance.

Bottas
Hamilton
Verstappen
LeClerc
Albon
Ricciardo
Ocon
Norris
Perez
Sainz

CaledonianCraig wrote:Alright....own up. Who on here nobbled Stroll??

Alright it was me. I did it just to shut Olly up.

Valiant effort by Hulk but not that surprising he was out in Q1, given he had zero preparation time. Hope he can do himself justice in the race.


Some mild interest when it looked like Max had a chance of getting pole, but its business as usual: Bottas on pole by 2/10ths, Hamilton 2nd, Max 3rd, Leclerc 4th (WTF?), Albon, followed by the Renaults.

Wonder if Valtteri can add some interest to the title race by pulling off another win? Ferrari also looking strangely quick (or at least Charles is).

If not the Eifel (65) grand prix could leave us feeling blue...da ba dee, da ba da...

I would prefer Verstappen to win. He was only 4 hundredth of a second off Hamilton's time. I assume everyone in the top ten are starting on the softs.

This is a high downforce track tbh so a good place in theory for RB and Ferraris draggy car

dyrewolfe wrote:Valiant effort by Hulk but not that surprising he was out in Q1, given he had zero preparation time. Hope he can do himself justice in the race.

Valiant effort to finish dead last

Also special mention to Kimi, who managed to be outqualified on one of the toughest circuits out there by his apparently inadequate teammate, the soon to be replaced by Michael Schumacher's kid based on Ferrari orders, Antonio Giovinazzi

GSC wrote:This is a high downforce track tbh so a good place in theory for RB and Ferraris draggy car

If Bottas doesn't nail his start, there's a chance Max could get an early lead. If not, he'll have to hope the Mercs suffer worse tyre degradation. Charles should at least be able to hang on to his starting position.

I think 2 day race events could be the way forward in the near future.
A 2hr FP session on Saturday morning would be more than enough. Followed by qualifying a couple of hours later. Race naturally on Sunday.
Shorter weekend would ensure drivers have to think on their feet and not be overly reliant on telemetry

Bottas error and locks up conceding the lead to Hamilton.

Albon has a knack of cutting in and hitting people. Bottas now has no power and retiring, probably ends any hope of a championship challenge.

Ricciardo or Perez for the final podium position

Hamilton wins and equals Michael Schumacher’s record of F1 wins

Verstappen in 2nd, and Ricciardo completes the podium. Perez in 4th, with another super drive. Hulkenberg in 8th

Well that was quite the snore-fest, after the start. Even the restart after the SC didn't help much.

Good start by Bottas, (a lot of cars going wide at the first corner), Hamilton got past, but Valtteri fought back to re-take the lead. Was cruising seemingly when he suddenly did a massive lock-up, for no apparent reason...allowing Lewis to catch and pass him. To add insult to injury, after the VSC, his MGU-H decided to pack up...first DNF of the season.

Whenever Merc have problems, it always seem to be with Bottas' car. So with that goes any remaining hopes Valtteri had of contesting the title this season. A win would have put him 38(?) points behind Lewis. Now the gap stands at 70.

Decent race for Max...never far away, but just not quick enough to trouble Lewis. Alex looked to be having another scrappy race when his engine went the same way as Bottas'.

Fantastic race for Ricciardo. Chuffed to see him back on the podium...don't think he'll attempt a shoey in this weather though. Ocon looking set for a good points finish when his powertrain decided to give up. Anyway...Cyril's getting a tattoo!

Perez again showing RP they made a big mistake firing him. A little surprised he didn't get past Ricciardo. Hulk doing a decent job after starting at the back, to finish 8th.

Good result for Sainz, considering McLaren didn't look that competitive. Poor Lando going the same way as Ocon. 2 DNFs in a row for him now.

Weird to have so many engine issues in one race. Still, a race to forget other than for Lewis equalling Schumacher's 91 race wins. Nice to see Mick presenting him with one of his dad's helmets.

If Ricciardo had stayed with Red Bull there wouldn't be a second seat issue at Red Bull and Ricciardo would be competing with Verstappen for the occasional win.  I think both Perez and Hulkenberg have done enough to deserve a seat for next year.   So who are the top drivers in F1 at the moment?
Tier 1: Hamilton, Verstappen, Leclerc, Ricciardo.
Tier 2: Bottas, Perez, Sainz, Gasly, Norris, Vettel (surely?), Hulkenberg, Russell ....

Weird how so many people don't rate Bottas.

Happens to be teammates with one of the best ever. Gets compared to him, but let's say Hamilton retires this winter, Bottas probably wins the WDC next year.

Bit early to put LeClerc in tier 1 tbh. The car being a dog does tend to mask a few of the rough edges.

Depends who his teammate is. If they put Ocon in the 2nd car Riccardo has made him look a bit ordinary, when he showed well against Perez. Max would decimate him if it happened

Just a little news that might’ve been missed from Nurburgring. Nico Hulkenberg was set to race for Red Bull, Alexander Albon had some issues with his covid19 Tests. Eventually Albon got the all clear. And obviously Hulkenberg replaced Stroll.

There’s been a few lines in Germany and Italy suggesting Verstappen almost imploring Marko sign up the German for 2021. Verstappen is close friends with Hulkenberg but it seems genuine they Verstappen wants him in the sister car.

Marky wrote:Weird how so many people don't rate Bottas.

Happens to be teammates with one of the best ever. Gets compared to him, but let's say Hamilton retires this winter, Bottas probably wins the WDC next year.

If that scenario played out it’s more the car masking Bottas’ limitations rather than his ability. Even without Hamilton there, I’d back Verstappen to beat Bottas

Jeff Navarro wrote:

Marky wrote:Weird how so many people don't rate Bottas.

Happens to be teammates with one of the best ever. Gets compared to him, but let's say Hamilton retires this winter, Bottas probably wins the WDC next year.

If that scenario played out it’s more the car masking Bottas’ limitations rather than his ability. Even without Hamilton there, I’d back Verstappen to beat Bottas

I don't think that would happen over the course of a season (assuming Mercedes retained its performance advantage). On his good days, Bottas would still win races, but he'd definitely have some bad days when he wouldn't finish on the podium.

I'd put money on him winning the title...but by a much smaller margin than Hamilton has been doing.

dyrewolfe wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:

Marky wrote:Weird how so many people don't rate Bottas.

Happens to be teammates with one of the best ever. Gets compared to him, but let's say Hamilton retires this winter, Bottas probably wins the WDC next year.

If that scenario played out it’s more the car masking Bottas’ limitations rather than his ability. Even without Hamilton there, I’d back Verstappen to beat Bottas

I don't think that would happen over the course of a season (assuming Mercedes retained its performance advantage). On his good days, Bottas would still win races, but he'd definitely have some bad days when he wouldn't finish on the podium.

I'd put money on him winning the title...but by a much smaller margin than Hamilton has been doing.

A heck of a lot would also depend on who would replace Hamilton in that scenario. If a driver capable of winning races from the get go then that would put even more pressure on Bottas.

Now know what the pundits were on about, in regards to, Gasly. Tbh, not surprised Gasly has gone behind RB’s back and tried to negotiate his way to Renault, in the view to replacing, Ocon. Done more than enough to be promoted back to RB, given how poor Albon has been. So trying to manoeuvre himself out of AT, is probably his best hope now to further his career.

Ocon looks poor. Seen off by Perez, trounced by Ricciardo, and being bent over by Alonso, will be the final nail in the coffin.

I see RB’s annual quit threat is here too. They will quit, if they take over the Honda PU, and an engine development freeze isn’t introduced.

Red Bull’s treats will fall on deaf ears, Ferrari announced they are ‘happy’ to supply both Red Bull and AlphaTauri - I was under the assumption a manufacturer could only supply three teams but Ferrari also stated they won’t end deals with Alfa Romeo and Haas.

As for Gasly, Marko doesn’t like/care/value the Frenchman. Obviously Renault wants a French driver and Alonso/Gasly would be strong pairing. I don’t understand the Ocon hype.

Ocon looked handy at RP but the year out hasn't helped and Danny Ric has put him in his place. Had a chance to be a cheaper Bottas in the second Merc but probably needs a big 2021 to stay in f1

The new owners at Williams are set to end George Russell’s contract at the conclusion of the 2020 season. Sergio Perez has emerged as their primary target. Russell would miss out for 2021 entirely.

Dmitry Mazepin has elected to pay Haas a rather substantial fee to get one of the seats for his son Nikita - Gene Haas doesn’t want to sell

Jeff Navarro wrote:The new owners at Williams are set to end George Russell’s contract at the conclusion of the 2020 season. Sergio Perez has emerged as their primary target. Russell would miss out for 2021 entirely.

Dmitry Mazepin has elected to pay Haas a rather substantial fee to get one of the seats for his son Nikita - Gene Haas doesn’t want to sell

Disappointing news about George Russell and maybe they are homing in on Perez because of the sponsorship money he offers which says they need the money already. Of course not that Perez won't do a great job but why elbow out Russell.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:The new owners at Williams are set to end George Russell’s contract at the conclusion of the 2020 season. Sergio Perez has emerged as their primary target. Russell would miss out for 2021 entirely.

Dmitry Mazepin has elected to pay Haas a rather substantial fee to get one of the seats for his son Nikita - Gene Haas doesn’t want to sell

Disappointing news about George Russell and maybe they are homing in on Perez because of the sponsorship money he offers which says they need the money already. Of course not that Perez won't do a great job but why elbow out Russell.

Williams have elected to have two pay drivers - Lafiti and Perez. That would bring in massive amount of money. Perez obviously has a lot of talent. But Lafiti has looked dreadful

Williams should have been doing a lot better with a Mercedes engine.  The Williams family must have lost touch with aero design to have been so uncompetitive that they would have gone out of business if they hadn't have sold up.  

The new Williams owners are starting from a very low base and need to make drastic decisions to become competitive again otherwise their sojourn into F1 won't last very long.  

With the rumour that they will replace Russell with Perez, then, if true, they must have decided they need the money and the publicity and the connections of having two externally funded / sponsored drivers in the form of Latifi and Perez.  

Also in Perez they have an experienced driver with a lot of knowledge of having worked with other teams as well as extensive experience to help provide constructive feedback in the project to develop a competitive Williams car.

Russell was also at Williams because of connections between Wolff and the old management at Williams.

Merc probably regret the Bottas extension now

GSC wrote:Russell was also at Williams because of connections between Wolff and the old management at Williams.

Merc probably regret the Bottas extension now

Probably not. As long as Hamilton is in the team, it doesn't matter too much who is in the #2 seat.

Hmm...Russell to Mercedes in 2022?

Think they'd rather have Russell in a seat after Ocons year out

Be a crying shame if Russell doesn't have a seat in 2021

Mercedes have supposedly said they’ll reduce relations with Williams for 2021, since they have new owners. I’m not sure what their relationship was like previously but it seems like one of the reasons Russell will get axed.

As it stands it’s highly possible Ocon and Russell will be without seats in 2021.

It is a kind of sad and sums up what F1 is like now. There are cliques and too much back scratching going on to get drives in F1 and it is not always for the better of the sport. It should be for the premier and best drivers not just if you are a member of Red Bull programme or Mercedes programme or if you have the sponsorship money backing you or a rich father.

F1 has always had pay drivers.

Frankly the barrier to entry makes a Motorsport career pretty much impossible now without financial backing

I guess this is why the owners of Formula One, Liberty Media, are trying to reduce the costs. The coronavirus lockdowns and the uncertainty associated with that are making matters significantly worse.

CaledonianCraig wrote:It is a kind of sad and sums up what F1 is like now. There are cliques and too much back scratching going on to get drives in F1 and it is not always for the better of the sport. It should be for the premier and best drivers not just if you are a member of Red Bull programme or Mercedes programme or if you have the sponsorship money backing you or a rich father.

While I agree that there is way too much "co-operation" between teams and this is of no benefit whatsoever if you're trying to create a truly competitive sport, pay drivers aren't exactly a recent thing in F1.

As GSC pointed out, its such an expensive sport to compete in, that some teams will always go for extra income from a pay driver, even if they are not that talented.

Teams having young driver programmes is actually no bad thing IMO. They help youngsters make their way through karting and the junior formulas. It makes a big contribution to grass roots and lower tiers of motorsport. They only tend to hit a wall if they prove good enough to win (or at least be competitive) in GP2.

On the one hand loaning young drivers out to other teams gives more of them a chance to see if they can cut it in the big leagues. But as we have seen it can lead to genuinely talented drivers being left without a seat and teams being saddled with average drivers who really struggle.

Personally I'd say that if young drivers do hit a progression wall after GP2, then there should be more efforts to find avenues into Formula E, WEC and other categories, rather than promoting them into a F1 seat just because they are next in line.

Nikita Mazepin will sign two year deal at Haas once he secures his super licence.

Mick Schumacher may end up at Haas as well with Ferrari facing backlash over potential Antonio Giovinazzi sacking. And Ferrari trying to keep Gene Haas relationship sweet.

Meaning Callum Illot and Robert Schwartzman miss out for 2021.

Mazepin is poor. Grosjean’s time was up, but this replacement is very underwhelming. Tbh, right now, the Williams and Haas seats are poisoned chalices, literally career enders.

Giovinazzi deserves his spot at Alfa Romeo, he's started to outperform Kimi and for him to be dropped for Michael Schumacher's son would be an even bigger shame than Mazepin replacing Grosjean.

Honda protégée Yuki Tsunoda will race for AlphaTauri in 2021 providing he obtains top 6 finish in F2 championship - currently third so seems nailed barring an epic collapse. Daniil Kvyat will be dropped by Red Bull.