Home Lions Tour a step closer...

by No9 Tue 23 Feb 2021, 1:52 pm

BBC wrote:

A Lions 'home' tour?
BBC rugby union correspondent Chris Jones

The possibility of a 'home' British and Irish Lions tour has moved a step closer after Johnson's announcement that there could be capacity crowds in English stadiums by late June.

The Lions are due to visit South Africa in July and August with a three-Test series against the world champions.

But concern over the pace of South Africa's vaccination programme has thrown the tour into disarray.

It is understood the Lions have approached the UK government about underwriting the Lions' liabilities, which is thought to be an important part of the process.

Other options are playing behind-closed-doors in South Africa or taking the tour to Australia.

Where the Test matches would be played remains up in the air, with Cardiff and Twickenham among the likely venues. BT Murrayfield is already scheduled to host the warm-up Test with Japan on 26 June.

The Lions are expected to make an official announcement in March.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/56151863

Are they having a laugh... Yep, that's a great idea. The biggest known danger to the vaccine is the so named "South African" variant, so I've got a great idea.. bring the Boks to the GB & Ireland instead. This has to be a journo trying to make a headline.... I hope..

If its not safe for the Lions to tour South Africa, its NOT safe to bring the Boks here.

by lostinwales Tue 23 Feb 2021, 3:41 pm

Can they justify vaccinating players sooner rather than later?

by No9 Tue 23 Feb 2021, 5:28 pm

Going to be a complete farce anyhow... as Boris as decided to open up by June. We'll have all the bat and ball players from around the world coming her to play in Wimbledon. And look what happened in Aus, with their Open Bat n' Ball tournament.

I liken to what's happening around the vaccine to "white line fever".. The over enthusiastic rush to get back to "normal" is going to go t!ts up and we'll be back to square 1 come Sep.

by TJ Tue 23 Feb 2021, 10:15 pm

Johnson's announcement that there could be capacity crowds in English stadiums by late June.

Highly unlikely to happen IMO - and if it does it will be a precursor to another huge wave of infections.
next year for mass gatherings of people at the earliest

by doctor_grey Tue 23 Feb 2021, 11:19 pm

I really believe the tourist part of the tour is what makes it so great (I say as a Lions tourist). I would rather see it postponed a year if the stakeholders can work it out, although that's an ice cube's chance in hell. Anything else will look like Boris Johnson's hair.

by king_carlos Sun 28 Feb 2021, 11:29 am

It frustrates me how little discussion South Africa are getting amongst the home nations media debate on this topic.

From a playing perspective the South African players haven't had an international game since the RWC final. The home nations have had the Six Nations 2020, ANC and now another Six Nations. If the boot was on the other foot there with potential Lions players having had no international rugby then I don't think there would be any contemplation of the the tour going ahead from the same suits who will be pushing for a Lions tour in the UK.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 28 Feb 2021, 11:59 am

The lions more than anything is about the fans and the tour. Hard to say how quickly the vaccine can turn things around but I'd rather it go to Australia than be played here.

by doctor_grey Sun 28 Feb 2021, 12:21 pm

Unless Covid-19 magically vanishes, I think the only reason for a Lions tour, even if staged in the Home Nations, is to raise much needed money. And if that is the case, then I understand, but would want that publicly stated. Otherwise, I still think the best option is to delay one year, perhaps to the autumn, or put it in Oz.

by Old Man Sun 28 Feb 2021, 1:35 pm

Yeah, I am for either delaying the tour to next year, or go to Aus and let us have the next tour

by king_carlos Sun 28 Feb 2021, 2:17 pm

Old Man wrote:Yeah, I am for either delaying the tour to next year, or go to Aus and let us have the next tour

That's actually a very interesting suggestion I haven't heard yet.

From what I've read there was discussion of Lions vs SA in Australia but the Lions simply touring Oz would arguably make more sense. Sellout crowds with plenty of Lions support as well due to the number of Brits living out there.

by Old Man Sun 28 Feb 2021, 3:22 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Old Man wrote:Yeah, I am for either delaying the tour to next year, or go to Aus and let us have the next tour
That's actually a very interesting suggestion I haven't heard yet.

From what I've read there was discussion of Lions vs SA in Australia but the Lions simply touring Oz would arguably make more sense. Sellout crowds with plenty of Lions support as well due to the number of Brits living out there.

Agreed

by doctor_grey Sun 28 Feb 2021, 6:55 pm

Apparently, or at least has reported as so, there is a group within the Lions who don't have much enthusiasm for moving the tour to Oz. My feeling is we are dealing with a once in 100 year pandemic, flexibility is important. And a tour to Oz will still be great. As will a tour to SA next year.

by whatahitson Sun 28 Feb 2021, 9:32 pm

king_carlos wrote:It frustrates me how little discussion South Africa are getting amongst the home nations media debate on this topic.

From a playing perspective the South African players haven't had an international game since the RWC final. The home nations have had the Six Nations 2020, ANC and now another Six Nations. If the boot was on the other foot there with potential Lions players having had no international rugby then I don't think there would be any contemplation of the the tour going ahead from the same suits who will be pushing for a Lions tour in the UK.

I think SARU would take a 3-0 loss if it meant the Lions still toured SA, even without fans, this summer. It's about money at this stage. I honestly see little to no reason why a tour cannot go ahead in SA even with no fans travelling over there.

by Old Man Sun 28 Feb 2021, 10:17 pm

whatahitson wrote:
king_carlos wrote:It frustrates me how little discussion South Africa are getting amongst the home nations media debate on this topic.

From a playing perspective the South African players haven't had an international game since the RWC final. The home nations have had the Six Nations 2020, ANC and now another Six Nations. If the boot was on the other foot there with potential Lions players having had no international rugby then I don't think there would be any contemplation of the the tour going ahead from the same suits who will be pushing for a Lions tour in the UK.

I think SARU would take a 3-0 loss if it meant the Lions still toured SA, even without fans, this summer. It's about money at this stage. I honestly see little to no reason why a tour cannot go ahead in SA even with no fans travelling over there.

Not much money to be had if travel restrictions and sporting fan bans are in place. Financially SA will lose a hell of a lot of revenue if the series is played in front of empty stadiums.

by MonkeyMan Mon 01 Mar 2021, 9:33 am

I have no interest in the Lions but if the tour doesn't go ahead then rather than trying to force something that is not possible then why not just have the SH teams come to the UK & Eire and have an early Autumn Internationals?

It would be good for the 4 nations of UK & Eire to test themselves against the 4 Rugby Championship teams. Makes more sense to me than personally but just my opinion

by doctor_grey Mon 01 Mar 2021, 11:08 am

This will sound a bit pedantic, but in the potential scenario SA comes to the Home Nations, then it becomes a Barbarians series, does it not? Same players as Lions, perhaps, but Lions are not supposed to play at home. Of course, the Lions organisation might have a problem with that because of lost kit sales revenue, but it would be a cool accommodation if that could be negotiated.

by MonkeyMan Mon 01 Mar 2021, 11:19 am

doctor_grey wrote:The Lions organisation might have a problem with that because of lost kit sales revenue

Well they will just have to accept it. This is a pandemic crisis. I want life back to normal as much as everyone else but safety should always come before lining the pockets of people who already have full pockets

doctor_grey wrote:Lions are not supposed to play at home

They did in 2005 against Argentina. I do not know any international rugby rule that forbids this given that the Lions are not even a real international team and just a touring (or not in this case) side

by whatahitson Mon 01 Mar 2021, 2:31 pm

Old Man wrote:
whatahitson wrote:
king_carlos wrote:It frustrates me how little discussion South Africa are getting amongst the home nations media debate on this topic.

From a playing perspective the South African players haven't had an international game since the RWC final. The home nations have had the Six Nations 2020, ANC and now another Six Nations. If the boot was on the other foot there with potential Lions players having had no international rugby then I don't think there would be any contemplation of the the tour going ahead from the same suits who will be pushing for a Lions tour in the UK.

I think SARU would take a 3-0 loss if it meant the Lions still toured SA, even without fans, this summer. It's about money at this stage. I honestly see little to no reason why a tour cannot go ahead in SA even with no fans travelling over there.

Not much money to be had if travel restrictions and sporting fan bans are in place. Financially SA will lose a hell of a lot of revenue if the series is played in front of empty stadiums.

Is there no hope of having south Africans in the ground as fans?

by Old Man Mon 01 Mar 2021, 3:19 pm

whatahitson wrote:
Old Man wrote:
whatahitson wrote:
king_carlos wrote:It frustrates me how little discussion South Africa are getting amongst the home nations media debate on this topic.

From a playing perspective the South African players haven't had an international game since the RWC final. The home nations have had the Six Nations 2020, ANC and now another Six Nations. If the boot was on the other foot there with potential Lions players having had no international rugby then I don't think there would be any contemplation of the the tour going ahead from the same suits who will be pushing for a Lions tour in the UK.

I think SARU would take a 3-0 loss if it meant the Lions still toured SA, even without fans, this summer. It's about money at this stage. I honestly see little to no reason why a tour cannot go ahead in SA even with no fans travelling over there.

Not much money to be had if travel restrictions and sporting fan bans are in place. Financially SA will lose a hell of a lot of revenue if the series is played in front of empty stadiums.

Is there no hope of having south Africans in the ground as fans?

Highly doubtful

by whatahitson Mon 01 Mar 2021, 4:42 pm

Old Man wrote:
whatahitson wrote:
Old Man wrote:
whatahitson wrote:
king_carlos wrote:It frustrates me how little discussion South Africa are getting amongst the home nations media debate on this topic.

From a playing perspective the South African players haven't had an international game since the RWC final. The home nations have had the Six Nations 2020, ANC and now another Six Nations. If the boot was on the other foot there with potential Lions players having had no international rugby then I don't think there would be any contemplation of the the tour going ahead from the same suits who will be pushing for a Lions tour in the UK.

I think SARU would take a 3-0 loss if it meant the Lions still toured SA, even without fans, this summer. It's about money at this stage. I honestly see little to no reason why a tour cannot go ahead in SA even with no fans travelling over there.

Not much money to be had if travel restrictions and sporting fan bans are in place. Financially SA will lose a hell of a lot of revenue if the series is played in front of empty stadiums.

Is there no hope of having south Africans in the ground as fans?

Highly doubtful

That's a shame.

What are the best options for south africa?

I listened to Elma Smit last week and she seemed adamant that the tour would go ahead and that SARU would not be open to any alternative option like playing it in australia. Even if it means delaying it for 12 months.

by Old Man Mon 01 Mar 2021, 7:00 pm

whatahitson wrote:
Old Man wrote:
whatahitson wrote:
Old Man wrote:
whatahitson wrote:
king_carlos wrote:It frustrates me how little discussion South Africa are getting amongst the home nations media debate on this topic.

From a playing perspective the South African players haven't had an international game since the RWC final. The home nations have had the Six Nations 2020, ANC and now another Six Nations. If the boot was on the other foot there with potential Lions players having had no international rugby then I don't think there would be any contemplation of the the tour going ahead from the same suits who will be pushing for a Lions tour in the UK.

I think SARU would take a 3-0 loss if it meant the Lions still toured SA, even without fans, this summer. It's about money at this stage. I honestly see little to no reason why a tour cannot go ahead in SA even with no fans travelling over there.

Not much money to be had if travel restrictions and sporting fan bans are in place. Financially SA will lose a hell of a lot of revenue if the series is played in front of empty stadiums.

Is there no hope of having south Africans in the ground as fans?

Highly doubtful

That's a shame.

What are the best options for south africa?

I listened to Elma Smit last week and she seemed adamant that the tour would go ahead and that SARU would not be open to any alternative option like playing it in australia. Even if it means delaying it for 12 months.

We just went back to level one lockdown lastnight, it essentially means 500 spectators per match.

The problem we have is SARU has been very quiet since the lockdown started a year ago. We have scant information in regards to their financial status, which means we can only guess they must be desperate for revenue. Question is will they think long term or short term?

The preparation series for the Rainbow Cup is under way, but we are yet to have confirmation that it would go ahead, many rumours about either being based in Dubai, or London, it does seem like there won’t be any matches in SA.

Same goes for the Lions series.

We are all waiting in anticipation of concrete facts.

by doctor_grey Mon 01 Mar 2021, 11:59 pm

MonkeyMan wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:The Lions organisation might have a problem with that because of lost kit sales revenue
Well they will just have to accept it. This is a pandemic crisis. I want life back to normal as much as everyone else but safety should always come before lining the pockets of people who already have full pockets
doctor_grey wrote:Lions are not supposed to play at home
They did in 2005 against Argentina. I do not know any international rugby rule that forbids this given that the Lions are not even a real international team and just a touring (or not in this case) side

I remember that horrible 25-25 match in which the Lions were lucky to snatch the draw (thanks to JW).

There is no rule I am aware of that says the Lions can't play in UK/Ireland. But when I was a lad, I was told the Lions were supposed to be only a touring side, representing the best of us. And the Baabaas played at home. But then, I am probably being overly sentimental.

I absolutely agree with you about the revenue; I was stating what I heard about resistance to alternatives tour scenarios which seem to make sense to many of us.

by BigTrevsbigmac Thu 04 Mar 2021, 11:00 am

Looks a step further away now.
Times reporting that the B & I Lions have failed to convince government to underwrite the event here.

I struggle to see how it will proceed this year as they need 25% capacity in grounds to break even reportedly.

by Old Man Thu 04 Mar 2021, 11:15 am

I don’t see a Lions tour happening anywhere this year

by **RiscaGame** Thu 04 Mar 2021, 11:23 am

It really shouldn't happen. It is making me less enamoured with the whole thing, when they're scrambling around so much to get it on.

by westisbest Sat 06 Mar 2021, 12:01 pm

Yes. Would like to see it go ahead next summer. Fans back in stadiums.
Wouldn’t be great to watch without the fans, like all sports.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sat 06 Mar 2021, 12:08 pm

Postponing the tour until 2022 is the least likely course of action due to the ramifications for the home unions' summer tours.

I agree I think it should be cancelled & let SA have the next slot in 2025.

by doctor_grey Sat 06 Mar 2021, 12:53 pm

Agree with most of you. A Lions tour without the Lions tourists, does not seem to make much sense.

by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 06 Mar 2021, 1:31 pm

Lions board have turned down the tour in Australia

by whatahitson Sat 06 Mar 2021, 2:07 pm

I think the best compromise is playing it in the UK. Australia never made much sense. Either the Lions should play South Africa in the UK, or the Lions should play all 3 of the southern hemisphere in the UK and the tour goes back to SA in 2025. Cancelling would be a nightmare for everyone.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sun 07 Mar 2021, 7:53 am

Looks like a U turn by Westminster & they have now given backing to a UK Lions Tour.
Just waiting for ratification from Irish Government & devolved government’s of Scotland & Wales in relation to expected games in the respective capitals.

by Gooseberry Sun 07 Mar 2021, 8:12 am

If they hosted a home series would Scotland get a token midweek game?

by doctor_grey Sun 07 Mar 2021, 9:07 am

If the Boks really did tour the Lions home countries, then how would the revenue be split? It would significantly cut into gate, tv, and tourist spend for the Boks. But I guess some revenue in a Covid ravaged year is better than none.

by LordDowlais Tue 09 Mar 2021, 10:33 am

Keith wood is now saying that the tour should be postponed for 4 years. I cannot disagree with him. SA is probably the only country in the world that has handled this pandemic worse than the UK, well SA and USA. But that is for another topic.

We need to keep people safe, sending them to SA whilst they are in the state they are in is stupid. The UK is on the cusp of finally beating this pandemic, why put it all at risk ?

by whatahitson Tue 09 Mar 2021, 4:52 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Keith wood is now saying that the tour should be postponed for 4 years. I cannot disagree with him. SA is probably the only country in the world that has handled this pandemic worse than the UK, well SA and USA. But that is for another topic.

We need to keep people safe, sending them to SA whilst they are in the state they are in is stupid. The UK is on the cusp of finally beating this pandemic, why put it all at risk ?

That's just silly you shouldn't take your worldview from sensationalist media headlines.

by mikey_dragon Wed 10 Mar 2021, 8:55 am

LordDowlais wrote:Keith wood is now saying that the tour should be postponed for 4 years. I cannot disagree with him. SA is probably the only country in the world that has handled this pandemic worse than the UK, well SA and USA. But that is for another topic.

We need to keep people safe, sending them to SA whilst they are in the state they are in is stupid. The UK is on the cusp of finally beating this pandemic, why put it all at risk ?

If one of the rugby players happens to catch it you don't think he'd survive, given they're healthy and the survival rate is very high in a particular algorithm?

by No 7&1/2 Wed 10 Mar 2021, 9:24 am

Its more knowing that there are enough people vaccinated and that the vaccination (whichever type) is effective against various strains and can also stop transmission. Woods' point was to ensure that supporters are there so he's really talking about thousands of supporters going as well not just players behind closed doors. That at the moment without the details of my first sentence does pose very real risks.

Remember its not just the survival rate of people with actual covid but the medical capacity to look after those people and still be able to respond to traffics accidents, heart attacks etc.

by R!skysports Tue 23 Mar 2021, 4:42 pm

Confirmed today from the Lions

The British & Irish Lions and SA Rugby have confirmed they are aligned on delivering the Castle Lager Lions Series in South Africa in the scheduled playing window.

by R!skysports Tue 23 Mar 2021, 4:43 pm

https://www.lionsrugby.com/2021/03/23/lions-rugby-2021-tour-update?utm_source=emailmarketing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=lions_tour_announcement_march&utm_content=2021-03-23

by tigertattie Tue 23 Mar 2021, 11:34 pm

R!skysports wrote:https://www.lionsrugby.com/2021/03/23/lions-rugby-2021-tour-update?utm_source=emailmarketing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=lions_tour_announcement_march&utm_content=2021-03-23

Looks like sponsorship is driving the decisions rather than player/spectator/general public safety.

Postpone till next year or go to Oz

by Oakdene Wed 24 Mar 2021, 8:38 am

The match again Japan at Murrayfield will go ahead as planned but with a possible limit on spectators.

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