2022-23 PL season.

First topic message reminder :

Liverpool won the Community Shield 3-1 over Manchester City at the King Power Stadium.
TAA opened the scoring.
Julian Alvarez scored on his City debut.
Salah scored a penalty after Dias handball.
Darwin Nunez scored late on, also ok debut.

Seems like the media really have to hype up Liverpool for some reason…

Debut to forget for Erling Haaland, largely anonymous. And missed a sitter from 6 yards out late on. Hit the crossbar in fact.

Wild over the top celebrations over a pre season match…genuinely baffling scenes.

Villa are f*cking massive.

Cristiano Ronaldo has done an interview with that clown Piers Morgan - the Portuguese crying that he’s been disrespected. Maybe if he wasn’t absolutely washed people would care.

He's a once great player but why would anyone respect you when you continually act like a child.

Should never have signed him as a vanity project to begin with.

Nobody wanted him before, imagine his options are down to a return home or a payday somewhere now

Ronaldo comes across stupid as he refused to take a pay cut to actually facilitate a move away in the summer.
Like who in the world, aside from Manchester United, will pay a 37 year old £500,000 per week?
If he really only cares ‘about winning’ why did he not accept a reduction?

Imagine there's a lot of clubs who would pay a small wedge to have a semi retired Ronaldo if he wants a payday.

GSC wrote:Imagine there's a lot of clubs who would pay a small wedge to have a semi retired Ronaldo if he wants a payday.

But will his ego let him go to MLS or China or the Middle East? Certainly, none of the top clubs in Europe will be after him now.

Cristiano Ronaldo has left Manchester United

Seems like the Glazer family are finally ready to sell up...

Just goes to show the calibre of the man really. Imagine he could've sat down and managed himself out of his contract if he wanted. Instead we get a tell all interview about he's the victim where he craps all over his manager and teammates and ensures the focus will be on him at the WC.

Ronaldo gave up £15.5m to have his contract terminated.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Seems like the Glazer family are finally ready to sell up...

Stand by for the whiplash when Ronaldo sacrificed himself to save the club in the hearts and minds of the fans if it happens.

Back to the PL tomorrow. We get to see what effect the World Cup and all the upheaval has had on the teams.

Arsenal's title charge potentially derailed due to Jesus's injury. Will Newcastle maintain their astonishing pre World Cup run? Will Liverpool and Chelsea get back into the top four? Potter might be fearing for his job already if he doesn't hit the ground running straight away. Will Kane recover? And with just 9 points separating 9th and 20th, who on earth is going to get relegated?

Liverpool to sign Cody Gakpo for a reported £37m.

Manchester United 2-1 Manchester City - the home side come from a goal down to win the Manchester derby.
Grealish scored the opener, United replied with goals from Fernándes and Rashford.

Having read the controversy about the equaliser before I saw it, I was a little underwhelmed. Nobody really got close enough for Rashford to be in the way, because they didn't pick up Fernandes to begin with.

Re Man U first goal - Extraordinary that a player who runs on to a through ball and draws in covering defenders and who then shapes to shoot is considered NOT to be interfering with play.

Crazy decision to award the goal.

I think it can be argued that the goal was correct in law, but the law is silly in this case. You can't have a situation where an offside player gets that close to the ball and doesn't get flagged for it.

Duty281 wrote:I think it can be argued that the goal was correct in law, but the law is silly in this case. You can't have a situation where an offside player gets that close to the ball and doesn't get flagged for it.

Yep, I’m with Duty on this. In this situation, the offside player is unfairly distracting - or, at least, should be - the defending team and likely to be drawing attention away from his onside team mates.

Brighton 3-0 Liverpool - the Seagulls hammer the Merseysiders.
Unless Klopp can fluke the CL, his journey seems done at Anfield.

It was Man City so a perfectly good goal for me.

Think whatever the rules may be, if that's not considered offside then they need reviewing over the summer.

Moyes has gone with Benitez taking over apparently

City getting booed off at half-time versus Spurs, with the North Londoners leading 2-0 after a quick double.

Very flat stuff from City, Haaland's fluffed a couple of chances. If Spurs hold on, and it's a big if because it's Spurs, it'll be 5 wins from their last 6 PL meetings with City. What a record that would be.

Ah yes, Spursy. 3-2 City after 63 minutes. Perisic narrowly missing a chance to put Spurs back in front, then he makes an error at the other end which allows City in. Lloris having a shocker and not for the first time - an area that Tottenham will need to improve upon over the summer.

4-2 FT. The spark City need to go on a 10 game winning run?

Lampard getting sacked at Everton puts his managerial career at a crossroads. Par job at Derby, but then sacked at Chelsea and now Everton (surprised he lasted as long as he did at Everton) - where to now? The Championship? Abroad? Or a lifetime of easy punditry?

I think Lampard actually did OK at Chelsea, at least given the circumstances of the time (transfer embargo) and that they were not going to get a bigger name manager at that point in time. Everton are just a mess, and that's only in a small part down to Lampard.

I would certainly agree that he needs more time to develop as a manaer, and that perhaps dropping down a division or moving to a lower profile league abroad may be the right choice at this stage in his coaching development. Of course this is on the proviso that he actually wants to continue his development as a coach / manager.

My recollection is that Lampard is actually a person of fairly high intelligence (iirc, there was a rumour that his IQ score was at Mensa level), so I'm not sure he'd find a career of vacuous punditry particularly rewarding, and maybe coaching is more reqarding on an intellectual level.

Good to have Dyche back. If Dyche can keep Everton up this season, there's scope for him to get them back in the top half playing some attractive stuff, thus shattering the stereotypes that currently exist of him.

Charges against Mason Greenwood have been dropped. He can resume career if and when selected.

Hopefully United do the right thing and ship the pr*ck off to some wasteland like Russia or Saudi.

And Neville can do one as well.

Duty281 wrote:Hopefully United do the right thing and ship the pr*ck off to some wasteland like Russia or Saudi.

And Neville can do one as well.

With Greenwood, surely it depends on whether the case was dropped because the CPS didn't have enough evidence to secure a prosecution (i.e. the incidents most likely happened, but cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt) or because the whole thing was BS to start with.

If the first, then yes he should have no future in the game in the UK and I would be happy to see him shipped off to Saudi or Qatar, where a repeat of such behaviour will meet with very stern punshment.

Everton 1-0 Arsenal - James Tarkowski’s goal hands Arsenal just their second league defeat of the season. Sean Dyche effect.

Just a few updates from the weekend
Wolves 3-0 Liverpool
Manchester United 2-1 Crystal Palace
Tottenham 1-0 Manchester City - Harry Kane is Spurs’ all time highest scorer and he reached 200 PL goals.

The PL has charged Manchester City with over 100 breaches of FFP after a 4 year investigation.

Would be hilarious if City were stripped of their titles and relegated below the football league. Not going to happen, mind, but nice to dream.

So basically they're being accused of cheating and/or obstructing the investigation in every year since the takeover?

Manchester United won the EFL Cup 2-0 over Newcastle United.

Any discussion of Man U as being in the title race, even as outsiders, crashed to a halt with one of the poorest performances in living memory.

1/3 of the season left, and it looks like the following:
TItle: Arsenal or Man City.i Arsenal 5 points clear, so must be favourites, although they still have to play each other.

CL positions: Man U should be OK, if they don't suffer a hangover from the Liverpool game.
4th is hard to call, because of the various games in hand, but any of Tottenham, Liverpool, Newcastle and Brighton could be in the running. Probably Brentford and Fulham just a couple of points too far back, but both will be delighted to already be safe from relegation, and be able to look upwards rather than down at this stage.

Relegation: Tough to call, because there's quite a few mediocre teams but no really bad ones - no one's adrift at the bottom. The bottom 6 are within 3 points, and everyone from Palace down has to be thinking about things.
I think West Ham and Leicester will find a way out - both good enough to win 2 or 3 games on the spin against relegation rivals and mid table teams. The others at the bottom I can't see doing that, so it's anyone's guess who ends up down.

Title - I still think City are favourites from here, but Arsenal are giving it a bloody good go and have confounded everyone's expectations so far. Two key factors against Arsenal are the Europa League, the Thursday-Sunday grind really harms teams, and the remaining fixture list, as Arsenal still have to visit City, Liverpool and Newcastle in the final 12 games, whereas City's fixture list is kinder. Also City have the advantage in GD, currently.

3rd and 4th - I reckon Liverpool are near certain to get top four. They're almost guaranteed to get knocked out of the CL next week, so it'll be sole focus on the league from then on out. They've finally hit good form, they're landing on a settled team, and they should finish strong.

The other place? Tough to say. Newcastle are wilting, so unlikely. Tottenham are, as ever, impossible to predict - they can beat City, but can get smashed by Leicester the following week, so who knows? United were doing superbly, Ten Hag perhaps only behind Arteta as manager of the year, but it remains to be seen how they'll recover from the 7-0. Plus, they've got the Europa League grind to contend with. Probably between Spurs and United, but I wouldn't rule Brighton out from here.

Relegation - Amazing how close it is, just 6 points separating 12th and 20th with 12/13 games left. Only teams I'd be confident about are Everton staying up and Bournemouth going down.

Hi Duty

I think for the title, I'd rather be in the position of having the points in the bank already, which I why I have Arsenal marginal favourites. If they don't lose to City then the 5 points is quite a big gap. OK, City's goal difference helps them, so it's kind of 4.5 points.

Similar argument for Man U being well positioned - 4 point gap over Spurs, and a game in hand, 7 over a Liverpool side returning to form and 8 over a Newcastle side that has only picked up 3 points in their last 5 games. Brighton have the potential to get into the mix but would need to win both the games in hand (and as I said, I'd rather have the points at this stage). In Brighton's favour is there is no pressure of expectation, so they are less likely to be Spursy.

Usually by this time there are one or two teams that look dead set for relegation, but really anyone from Palace down are still in the mix. Recent form is interesting -  in their last 5 games, Wolves are the best of the bottom 8, having picked up 7 points, Leicester and Southampton 6, West Ham and Forest 5, Leeds, Everton and Bournemouth 4 and Palace 3. No-one's in bad enough form to be distanced or good enough form to pull clear - don't see many of them getting much out of this weekend, maybe West Ham at home to Villa.
Basically it looks like the relegation places are going to be decided by the games between the teams in the bottom 7 or 8 places.

This is usually around the time when City tend to hit top gear and start monstering teams. Not sure Arsenal are equipped to handle that pressure yet.

Tend to agree with Duty that Bournemouth are in trouble. Don't think the squad is great and O'Neil is the caretaker that seems to be there forever. Not sure Southampton have that much about them either

Not quite as confident in Everton though, looked like they reinforced every negative Dyche stereotype.

I would guess Leicester and Palace wake up at some point?

dummy_half wrote:Hi Duty

I think for the title, I'd rather be in the position of having the points in the bank already, which I why I have Arsenal marginal favourites. If they don't lose to City then the 5 points is quite a big gap. OK, City's goal difference helps them, so it's kind of 4.5 points.

Similar argument for Man U being well positioned - 4 point gap over Spurs, and a game in hand, 7 over a Liverpool side returning to form and 8 over a Newcastle side that has only picked up 3 points in their last 5 games. Brighton have the potential to get into the mix but would need to win both the games in hand (and as I said, I'd rather have the points at this stage). In Brighton's favour is there is no pressure of expectation, so they are less likely to be Spursy.

Usually by this time there are one or two teams that look dead set for relegation, but really anyone from Palace down are still in the mix. Recent form is interesting -  in their last 5 games, Wolves are the best of the bottom 8, having picked up 7 points, Leicester and Southampton 6, West Ham and Forest 5, Leeds, Everton and Bournemouth 4 and Palace 3. No-one's in bad enough form to be distanced or good enough form to pull clear - don't see many of them getting much out of this weekend, maybe West Ham at home to Villa.
Basically it looks like the relegation places are going to be decided by the games between the teams in the bottom 7 or 8 places.

Yes, that's fair, Arsenal are still marginal favourites with the bookmakers - 10/11 for Arsenal, evens for City. I just think City will be too powerful down the stretch, plus there's signs that Arsenal are starting to feel the pace, as they've recently had to claw victories out at the last minute v Villa and Bournemouth. I don't think they'll be able to keep doing that.

Arsenal have played Man City twice: at home in the Premier League where they lost 1-3, and away to City in the FA Cup where they lost 1-0.  They have to play City away and if they lose that then they are one draw away from losing their 5 points advantage and with City's goal difference advantage that would put City ahead of Arsenal.   When Arsenal lost to City in the FA cup in late January they had a mini slump in February dropping 8 points from 9 in the Premier League.  They have since fought hard to gain wins but it has been quite difficult for them.

Arsenal ........................  Man City .......... Away Fixtures Remaining
Manchester City ............. Brentford
Liverpool ....................... Brighton
Newcastle ..................... Fulham
Fulham ......................... Palace
Nottingham Forest .......... Everton
West Ham ..................... Southampton


Arsenal ........................  Man City .......... Home Fixtures Remaining
Chelsea ......................... Arsenal
Brighton ........................ Liverpool
Wolves .......................... Chelsea
Palace ........................... Leicester City
Leeds ............................ Leeds
Southampton ................. West Ham

Given the remaining fixtures I believe it is going to be more difficult for Arsenal to maintain their advantage than for Man City to overtake them.  That is I put Man City as the favorites to win.   But then that is just my opinion given the information available and past form.

NNB
Thanks for the fixture lists - the City v Arsenal game really is big in the run in. Outside of that I don't see THAT much difference in the strength of the teams that are to play, the biggest difference is Arsenal seem to have their harder games away from home, City at home.

City are without doubt the stronger team and squad on paper (especially because of Haarland), but Arsenal have really over-achieved as a team so far this season, and even if they end up falling a bit short they have had a really good season, far exceeding expectations.

There's always a tendency at this stage of the season to look at games like (for example) Arsenal v Leeds or City v West Ham and go 'easy 3 points' , but somewhere along the lines there will be the odd slip up from both - winnable games only drawn, or a sloppy defeat. Who avoids these setbacks will go a long way to deciding the title.

I am rooting for Arsenal as a neutral but believe it is going to be very difficult for them to win the title because of
a) a more difficult fixture list: similar teams to play but for Arsenal they have to play the higher ranked teams away. We saw last week how difficult it can be to get a result at Anfield and we also saw Arsenal getting beaten away to Everton.
b) Arsenal's lack of experience and susceptibility for having short runs of poor results: we saw it this season (1 point from 9 at the start of February) and the end of last season when the top four was in their grasp.

Manchester City 4-1 Liverpool. The champions come from 0-1 down to outclass and ultimately humiliate Liverpool.

Great win for villa yesterday. Emery doing a great job.
Couple of tough games this coming week.
Both teams fighting for survival.

Leicester now manager less. Having a woeful season, we need to carry on this good form under emery.

Chelsea have sacked Graham Potter

Twelfth managerial sacking in the premier league this season with Chelsea sacking two managers.

No name Bertie wrote:Twelfth managerial sacking in the premier league this season with Chelsea sacking two managers.

Pretty impressive when you consider that Watford are only in the Championship.

Gutted for Potter. He was flying the flag, not just for English managers, but managers who should be given a chance and not chucked on the scrapheap straight away.

Might sound strange, but I'm not sure what more he could have done. Chelsea lacked a genuine goalscorer, or two. All the money thrown around didn't go where it needed to. Most games of Chelsea's this season have followed the pattern of lots of chance creation, but poor conversion. Yesterday v Villa: 27 shots and zero goals, is a classic example. A manager can only go as far as tactically setting the team up right; sticking it in the net is beyond a manager.

Oh well, that's English managers set back another decade. No surprise about Rodgers, though, except that he's lasted this long.

That’s a very generous interpretation of Potter’s spell at Chelsea. Their rolling xG average has been in the negative for the majority of his spell - it’s not like at Brighton where his team would create chances and then miss them. They’ve not even been creating a lot of the time and the performances have been awful for a long time.

What more could he have done? Well, not play guys who blatantly don’t want to be here and won’t be here next season a la Ziyech, Kovacic and probably Felix. And show some degree of tactical progression instead of panicking and flipping flopping tactics every other week.

Was he shafted by a bloated squad, injuries to key players and bad/no transfers in key roles? Yes. Did he show anything at all to suggest he could even maintain a level never mind improve it? No.

I’m sure the 18 months of Nagelsmann will be exciting at least.