England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes

by msp83 Sun Jul 30, 2023 2:17 pm

First topic message reminder :

Wood's pace was not quite up there in that first over though he still was quick. The lengths weren't great. Fine half-century from Khawaja who is closing in on regaining the top-scorer position from Crawley for the series.

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:31 am

alfie wrote:With a day to go and all results still possible I had better say a couple of things.

Firstly , whatever the outcome on Monday , this has been an excellent series ; and both teams deserve credit for this. If Australia win I have no doubt Stokes and his men will come in for a lot of criticism - and some will probably use a 1-3 result as evidence that they haven't really improved at all : which I reckon is nonsense. They can't be immune from criticism ; but it seems clear to me that whatever improvements might still be needed to their methods (and there are certainly things that need fixing by this "work in progress" playing group) they have transformed themselves from the sorry outfit that were slaughtered in Australia and ended up losing to a very poor West Indian team just 16 months ago. And anyone who says they aren't thrilling to watch must just not like cricket.

As for Australia : they have actually come in for criticism here for being overly defensive to the point of being boring - in contrast to their free spirited opponents. Probably some truth in that as some of their play hasn't been what I would call the Australian Way : but they have achieved their first objective in retaining The Ashes , and may yet win the series outright : so winners are grinners , no ? I do think that although at times they've appeared a bit spooked by England's attacking game , they have stuck resolutely to their plans...which enabled them to win the first two matches ; although rather letting them down in the next two. One very significant thing is that by batting long rather than fast they have put huge wear into England's bowlers ; and it looks as if that may be the decisive factor on this last day , judging by the rather muted efforts we saw from those bowlers yesterday. Tortoise wins , perhaps ?

I still have hopes for an England win : Warner and Khawaja have to start again ; we have seen collapses over the series - and indeed swings one day to the next have been the rule rather than the exception ; but I do think 250 runs is looking a little easier than 10 wickets at this point. I just hope if that does happen we don't go overboard rubbishing England for failure . They have gone toe to toe with a very good Australian team (not Hayden Gilchrist Warne McGrath good ; but still pretty decent !) who are WTC Champions for a reason ; and if they fall short it is still a better effort than anyone could have envisaged even a year ago.!

Are you trying to be a spin doctor for the England team? Very Happy

If England lose today it'll be their worst series result against Australia for 22 years. And Australia have been quite below their best this series, with the injury to Lyon severely denting their chances. Transformed since the winter in Aus and WI? Perhaps, but that usually happens anyway. England usually get beaten up in Australia then come back and win the return leg, at least in recent history.

Not sure about 'still a better effort than anyone could have envisaged even a year ago.' Expectations have generally been pretty high around England.

Think any criticism of Australia's style is nonsense. Generally comes in from those who think Bazball is the only way to play. Australia have played perfectly normal test cricket and got themselves in a position to win 1-3, despite losing one of their most key, and irreplaceable, players in the second test.

by KP_fan Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:44 am

the moving radar map CI has tweeted shows about a 30 min delayed start and the all clear until 8PM and even longer.

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:54 am

Raining.

Not raining. Very Happy

Might be one of those days. Start delayed by 10 minutes. Absolutely right, that light spit of rain could have made the outfield an ice rink. Damp ball will certainly help the Aussies.

by guildfordbat Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:08 am

Duty281 wrote:Raining.

Not raining.

Might be one of those days. Start delayed by 10 minutes. Absolutely right, that light spit of rain could have made the outfield an ice rink.

Considerably influenced by the various forecasts and perhaps local knowledge, I know of a couple of Oval regulars who placed bets on the draw yesterday having got odds of 5/1 from William Hill. They thought those were surprisingly generous odds and, although not a betting man, so did I.

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:10 am

Lunch at 13:25, by the way. Up to 98 overs in the day and, if the rain stays away and if the overs are needed, they'll stay on as long as possible to bowl them.

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:15 am

Decent opening over from Broad. Woakes, not Anderson, from the other end.

by guildfordbat Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:17 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
GSC wrote:Carey Bairstow is closer than I would've thought. Don't think Carey's had a vintage series behind the stumps if not as bad as Jonny. And Jonny has far outperformed him with the bat.

I'd like to get Cummins in there, was a force in the first 3 tests even if he's looked out of gas since

Yeah was going to say, Carey really hasn't been very good behind the stumps either - I can think of at least 3 very simple chances shelled off the top of my head, including the Brook one in the first dig here which was very poor. Bairstow's runs would get him in over Carey for me, albeit you're hardly choosing from two at the top of their game for that spot.

...

I thought Carey started really well behind the stumps but ended up poorly. Far greater consistency from Bairstow with the gloves. He began very badly and maintained it throughout the series.

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:26 am

Woakes strikes! The end for Warner. England have the early breakthrough they desperately needed.

Has been a really good start from Woakes.

by alfie Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:27 am

Woakes with the perfect start for England thumbsup

Top last knock from Warner . But England will be encouraged with that . Have bowled well this morning .

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:28 am

Know Broad/Warner is a thing, but it seems like Woakes has got him an awful lot across formats too - obviously remember in the 2019 WC semi most

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:35 am

First five overs and the ball swinging a lot. Australia perhaps fortunate to have only lost one so far!

Very poor review from England there. No idea what they saw. Need to look after those reviews with Wilson at one end.

by VTR Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:35 am

Broad burning a review, probably the one thing we aren't going to miss about him!

by GSC Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:37 am

Building some nice pressure this morning. Wonder if the rain last night and projected might muddle the Australian mindset. Really hasn't taken much to go into full defense in this series

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:38 am

SIR CHRISTOPHER OF WOAKES

by alfie Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:38 am

Bad waste of a review England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes - Page 2 3181402168

Never looked good , that one. Can't afford to waste them with Wilson umpiring !

Think Woakes has got Khawaja though ?

Yesss ! Two down...
Game on thumbsup

by GSC Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:38 am

England got the ball changed and it's doing a bit more this morning.

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:39 am

Woakes again! Yahoo

Not sure why Khawaja reviewed that. Ball doing tremendous amounts this morning. A combination of the conditions this morning and the ball change yesterday afternoon?

Smith and Labuschagne now. Neither have lived up to the heights expected of them this series. One last chance...

by GSC Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:39 am

Usman is straight out of the Shane Watson school of taking an early review with him. Reviewed some very pointless ones in this series

by KP_fan Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:40 am

half on hour into play, only 6 runs scored, 2 wkts down.....pressure on Aus
They brought pressure on themselves this morning...playing too carefully..

For those lamenting the pitch/ pitches...take Note that Woakes doesn't suffer from the pitches , like Anderson does

by GSC Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:42 am

If you ignore that it pitched in line, he didn't hit it and it was hitting middle stump, I can see why he went for that review

by alfie Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:45 am

Woakes right on the money today. Thought he was only "OK" at best yesterday ; but much livelier this morning...must have slept well.

Good start for England. Get Smith now and WINVIZ would be swinging back a long way ! Not that getting Smoth at his favourite ground is exactly easy...

150 up and I don't think these two will be going into their shells just because a couple of wickets have fallen. Very Important Partnership.

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:47 am

Very early days, but Labuschagne looking in excellent touch. Timing well, driving well, positive in defence.

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:54 am

Not good signs for Wood in his opening over, with his speed down at 85, 85, 86, 88, 85, and 87 mph.

by KP_fan Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:56 am

Duty281 wrote:Not good signs for Wood in his opening over, with his speed down at 85, 85, 86, 88, 85, and 87 mph.

yup that's what I observed too...not bad speeds....but significantly slower for one who operates in 92 to 94mph range.

Is he carrying some niggle because of which Stokes is using him sparingly & because of which he is a yard slower

by alfie Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:58 am

A different Labuschagne this morning ! Runs flowing since those two wickets....England have to attack, of course ; so scope for driving for profit ; and Marnus is right on it already. Ball still moving for Woakes so this is a huge period of the contest right here...

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:59 am

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Not good signs for Wood in his opening over, with his speed down at 85, 85, 86, 88, 85, and 87 mph.

yup that's what I observed too...not bad speeds....but significantly slower for one who operates in 92 to 94mph range.

Is he carrying some niggle because of which Stokes is using him sparingly & because of which he is a yard slower

Might not be a niggle as such, but three consecutive tests is a big ask for him and beginning to take its toll.

by alfie Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:00 pm

Reserving judgement on Wood for now. Let's see if he warms up and gets into it...

by alfie Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:04 pm

It seems we are going to have a debate around the ball change last night as the commentators are really amping up about it ! Sinister English Conspiracy ? If so it was one engineered by the neutral umpires

by Soul Requiem Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:05 pm

Duty281 wrote:Not good signs for Wood in his opening over, with his speed down at 85, 85, 86, 88, 85, and 87 mph.

Speed isn't everything.

by GSC Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:05 pm

Nothing like morning Wood

by alfie Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:06 pm

Wood strikes ! Might not have been ninety plus but too fast and fierce for Marnus ...

BIG wicket.

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:06 pm

Mammoth dismissal. That 215 looking quite distant now.

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:09 pm

alfie wrote:It seems we are going to have a debate around the ball change last night as the commentators are really amping up about it ! Sinister English Conspiracy ? If so it was one engineered by the neutral umpires

Does seem harsh on Australia, admittedly.

But it's all luck, isn't it? England picked a rotten ball from the batch to kick off, then they got a bit of fortune in return with the ball change.

by kingraf Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:14 pm

This new ball thing is an actual issue. It's actually shambolic that either

A - Umpires don't have the gumption to tell the bowling side to bowl better

Or

B - Ball manufacturers seem to exclusively produce duds.

Either way it's a farce that it happens this often

by GSC Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:18 pm

It is a standardized test at least as I understand it. Has to not fit through a hoop to be deemed that it's out of shape

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:18 pm

175/3 at drinks.

Very good session from England, exploiting the swing available, but still a fair way to go. Exquisite spell from Woakes. Can't relax while Smith's there...or with Marsh still to bat!

by kingraf Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:20 pm

[quote="GSC"]It is a standardized test at least as I understand it. Has to not fit through a hoop to be deemed that it's out of shape[/quote
If it were that simple, the ball would be replaced at 50/5 roughly as often as at 100/0, and yet...

by GSC Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:22 pm

Best conditions Jimmy has had all series it seems, it's now or never

by guildfordbat Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:23 pm

GSC wrote:Nothing like morning Wood

Neat take by Crawley too. He's a good slip and for such a tall man takes the low chances particularly well.

PS: meant to quote Alfie but hey ho!

by GSC Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:24 pm

kingraf wrote:
GSC wrote:It is a standardized test at least as I understand it. Has to not fit through a hoop to be deemed that it's out of shape[/quote
If it were that simple, the ball would be replaced at 50/5 roughly as often as at 100/0, and yet...

Yeah. I guess impetus for the test is the bowling side asking for it rather than the umpires doing it at standard intervals

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:25 pm

I do think the ball changing is a bit of a farce. Have said before that umpires need to shut down fielding sides who constantly demand a ball change just because they're not getting a wicket.

Ironically, I think it was Australia that started it. An Ashes test in 2019 they demanded a ball change, got it, and took plenty of wickets afterwards. Since then every team has been at it.

The box of replacement balls should carry a wide range of ages. Seems that when England had a look in the box in this test that the majority of the balls were fresh ones, which are of course no fair substitute for what England were working with.

by alfie Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:26 pm

To be fair , we have seen numerous ball changes all summer. And they have quite often produced results for - both - bowling sides. This one is understandably getting more attention than most.

Must be the manufacturing as I don't recall it happening so much in the past.

They do seem to unearthed a Jaffa this time

by GSC Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:27 pm

Thought they might have kept Wood on for another over to try some short theory at Head. Does seem like he's struggling with something if they can only use him for short spells

by guildfordbat Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:29 pm

GSC wrote:Best conditions Jimmy has had all series it seems, it's now or never

Yep, I was thinking that about 10 o'clock this morning. Other than the warmish temperature, seems a proper autumnal day in my neck of the woods not that far from the Oval.

by Duty281 Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:29 pm

Target now under 200. Australia will be feeling fairly positive about their chances if these two get to lunch, but that looks a little way off with Broad dominating Head in his return over. Didn't seem like Jimmy got a lot from his opening over.

by guildfordbat Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:35 pm

GSC wrote:Thought they might have kept Wood on for another over to try some short theory at Head. Does seem like he's struggling with something if they can only use him for short spells

It's odd about Wood. There must be something wrong for him to be bowling infrequently and his pace to be down but his smile and body language do not show it. Usually a speedster has a real grimace at the first twinge.

by kingraf Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:36 pm

Huge opportunity for Smith.

Never scored a fourth innings ton. A day five ton in England to secure their first away Ashes win in two decades would firmly establish him as the Undisputed Best Since Bradman

by alfie Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:37 pm

Smith certainly seems intent on keeping the score moving : doesn't want to surrender the initiative. Think that's the best policy for Australia : if they go into their shell they might find the pressure ends up too much for the later bats. Have added fifty today , despite the wickets , so staying well on course to chase this down unless England can grab more wickets sooner rather than later. Stokes will rotate his bowlers to keep them fresh ; but they've still all got a lot of miles in their legs so keeping up this pressure won't get easier as the day wears on.

Anderson bowled a great first ball to Smith then : hasn't really followed it up yet. Broad surely worth a wicket the way he's bowled today ? Patience needed...

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:40 pm

Duty281 wrote:
alfie wrote:It seems we are going to have a debate around the ball change last night as the commentators are really amping up about it ! Sinister English Conspiracy ? If so it was one engineered by the neutral umpires

Does seem harsh on Australia, admittedly.

But it's all luck, isn't it? England picked a rotten ball from the batch to kick off, then they got a bit of fortune in return with the ball change.

Was gonna say this ball change was prompted by it hitting Khawaja on the helmet wasn't it? I think it's just a bit luck of the draw really, happens throughout all tests these days it seems. Just a natural cricket thing, you can try standardise the balls as much as you can, but they're ultimately not all the same and will react differently!

by guildfordbat Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:41 pm

As I was saying yesterday, Travis Head is out of touch. Rolling Eyes

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