An opinion on the WRU..

I wrote this as a response to another thread but thought better not to sidetrack...

Right, I'm going to do a very dangerous thing. Defend the WRU....

Financially, and in a time when the game is becoming more and more dominated by money, they are doing a sound job. Last year they declared record revenues and (hopefully) the stadium should be fully paid off by 2021. That is - the Millennium Stadium, a world class sporting venue and events centre will be wholey owned by the WRU.

Now, I know everything isn't perfect and by no measure should we be content but things are not as bad as people might think in operational terms. The regions are not ten years old yet and the systems still in infancy.

I think the main thing hindering the development of the game in Wales is the in-fighting and politiking at any level of the game, from the school teams to the Regions vs WRU debate.

This should be controversial...thoughts?

I think the WRU recently awarded a 4 year contract extension to the national manager BEFORE the RWC and after a period of mediocrity where most fans seem lost as to the direction on and off the field. No apparent structure and little flair. In business you do not reward such disappointment and underachievement with long term contracts. The WRU like all of us are not perfect but they need to be accountable and the above is just one glaring mistake.

Ok, assuming you would get rid of Gatland - who would you have in his place?

As for the contract being awarded before the world cup, it is dependent on Wales achieving at least a Quarter-final place. This does make sense from a continuity point of view and I think we're likely to see a big shake up of back room staff post-WC.

No one is suggesting geting rid of him but you do not reward mediocrity with such a contract - He does look like a dead man walking and the performnces of the team appear to hasten this (along with Huw Bennett). The thread is about the WRU and I believe this is just one glaring mistake. All we get is how financially stable we have become - The welsh fans want a decent team not a bunch of happy accountants!!

Draigoch I'm with you, I think the WRU are doing the right thing.

Ruby - Sure it's all for the team. 100%. But the finances are how the future of the game is decided. And as long as the WRU has healthy statements the game in Wales has a future. We've gone through some painful times in the last decade, and I strongly believe that in order for us to be competing at the top table internationally in the next 20, 30...50 years we should sort out the following soon..

-Strong links between regions and WRU. WRU has veto and final say power on all matters.
-Strong links between regions and premiership sides. Possible ring-fencing and allocating teams to regions to establish this.
-Promote the game in North Wales. If successful, establish a regional team when financially viable.

I would love nothing more than an A team back. But can it work? If playing in the same weekends as the test team then that's 50 (minimum)players with Wales. I don't see how our regions can bear this.

Cheers maes!

I'm not sure that having a financially sound business merits much praise - for me that's just table stakes and the least we should expect.

Exactly what else have the WRU got to shout about. We have four regions proped up by benefactors, very low gate numbers for our so called national sport, a poor record in Europe, our national team playing VERY ordinary rugby, schools rugby in crisis and poor relations between WRU and regions.

They are the governing body of the sport in Wales and our expectations should be far higher. The WRU is all show and no substance and still run by highly paid amateurs. Oh... and the web site awful.

Blaming Gatland solely is unfair. Wales is playing a good exciting brand of rugby, the mentality of the players, not focusing for 80 minutes and unforced errors have cost them many games.

A national coach does not coach these aspects of the game.

Sometimes I don't like the excuse the regions are only 10 years old, to let them off things.

If you consider that ten years ago Leinster were a one-man operation run from a few portakabins,
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0507/1224296374596.html
playing if front of small crowds in Donnybrooke, Munster were about the same,
then in that 10 year period the regions have been left behind.

Considering they were based on clubs Cardiff, LLanali, Newport they would have had a lot more infustructure in place, and be in a better place and fanbase to start.

The reason I think is down to lack of marketing, at the beginging Munster poached the senior head of sales from global giant PepsiCo where he led a team of 100 people, to a provincial sports club.

The regions are strugglling to grow their fanbase but better marketing could ease this, weither it's the WRU, or regions own fault is debatable.

Good marketing = more fans = sponsorship = ££ = good players = silverware.

To be honest I do think the WRU are doing the best they can at the moment. And I am one of those who does come out and moan a fair bit about them (and the national team management). When Gatland was appointed I was pleased that we had someone with a track record in to sort things out. Possible the Grand Slam came too early, as I am unsure where it was a honeymoon period for the new management, or the lack of success since has been down to the players over-hype/over-confidence.

I think that regional rugby is improving the quality of players coming through, and that given a few more years we will probably all accept that. I think that the regions themselves are also moving in the right direction, and that all in all the interest in the club/regional game seems to be growing slowly. However I am of the opinion that it is a very long road and that we are realistically still rather near teh bigging of a rather long journey. Give time for the young generation (people who we not in their teens at the start of regionalism) to turn into fully grown supporters (and the ecconemy to pick up) and I think that regionalism will really take off. The problem is that there are still the old loyalties in the hearts and minds of the fans. For example I was 19 when the regions started and I now struggle to remember much of the pre-regional times, so when it comes to the welsh prem I try to take an interest in all the teams from inside the region, whereas my Dad will pay attention to the other sides but only really cares how Llanelli are doing (due to following Llanelli for far longer than I did). Also I call the regions Blues, Dragons, Ospreys and Scarlets, but to him they are Cardiff, Newport, Jacks and Scarlets (as being outside of Llanelli he thinks calling them Scarlets makes them more local to him). As his generation pass on, and my generation (and the one after me) start to make up the core of support the habbit of calling teams by the major clubs forming the regions should die out too.

Taking the emotion out of the issue is almost impossible for ANY Welsh fan.

However the current WRU board inherited someone else's problem and have done their best to control a horrific debt and push the game in Wales forwards. You only have to look where Scotland are to see where Wales could so easily be if they messed it up!
Moffett came in and waded through all the Nationalistic pride and self interest and dragged Welsh rugby to modernisation and affordability.

The debt from the 1995-1999 era is coming down, most of it from building the Millenium stadium but it was also built on terrible financial mis-management, with regards to throwing money at everything. Year on year it is being reduced, secondly they WRU is trying to give the regions more money each season however their grant of £1.5M each is still well below the £10-15m that come French clubs enjoy!
Whilst you can praise the WRU for controlling and reducing the debt, it's clearly benefactors like Peter Thomas, Tony Brown and Mike Cuddy who pump their own money into Welsh rugby that are the real heroes. Because if that money wasn't there ALL Wales's top players would be playing outside Wales and realistically Wales would only have 2 professional teams like Scotland.

The issue of Gatland is a different talking point altogether. When Gatland signed his new contract is was made pretty clear the WRU and Gatland have clauses in the deal to allow an escape in the event of under achievement or an All Blacks job offer.
If Wales don't make the quarters of the world Cup, Gatland is gone!
Gatland has a remarkable record in coaching, probably only second to Ian McGeechan in terms of career achievement.
3 English League Titles, 1 Heinaken Cup, 1 Amlin Cup, 1 Anglo-Welsh cup, 1 Grand Slam, 1 NPC championship, coach of Wales and Ireland and Forwards coach of the Lions amongst his achievements.
I won't include Sir Clive Woodward because whilst he did win a World Cup and invented the modern day rugby coaching blue print, once the other nations copied it they caught up, and really he looks like a one trick pony based on the fact he seems happy to live off his achievements in 2003 and not get involved any more.

The big issue I have with the WRU is ticket pricing £53 to see England at home in a friendly is a crazy price and is taking advantage of Welsh supporters in my opinion.
Whilst I'm glad to see Australia, New Zealand and South Africa coming here every November it is clearly over exposing them, and Welsh fans aren't as excited about Australia and South Africa as they were in years gone by, especially at the prices the WRU are asking us to pay!

Finally Gatland's insistence on lineing Wales up against the 3 Nations at every possible oppertunity is damaging Welsh players moral and the fans too. People want to see winning teams and with us typically playing 1 home game against South Africa in June, then on a 2 test tour on a 3 Nation team, followed by 3 home games against those same teams in November means were losing nearly all the time. nobody is going to blame Wales for losing to Australia, South Africa or New Zealand but lineing up against them all the time, and then putting weakened teams up against sides like Samoa or Fiji resulting in negative results as well is poor judgement.
Gatland has agreed to play 3 tests each summer in 3 Nations countries, with the lack of depth we have we could be smashed off the park in some of those games, and whats worse we are locked into this situation for the next 9 years!

Am looking to improve my knowledge with this question, so pls take it at that educational level

In Ireland, the provinces were well-established before he advent of professionalism, and the Scots have had districts (North & Midlands, South, Glasgow, & Edinburgh) since time began (no comment on the mess we made in moving to a pro world), but were there any collective groupings above the clubs in Wales pre the regions, or did the clubs always play independently as they did/do still in England?

Thanks

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Am looking to improve my knowledge with this question, so pls take it at that educational level

In Ireland, the provinces were well-established before he advent of professionalism, and the Scots have had districts (North & Midlands, South, Glasgow, & Edinburgh) since time began (no comment on the mess we made in moving to a pro world), but were there any collective groupings above the clubs in Wales pre the regions, or did the clubs always play independently as they did/do still in England?

Thanks

Scotland had, Glasgow, Caledonia, Borders and Edinburgh I think.

Wales only had their clubs, the idea of regional rugby was always rejected with hostility by Welsh clubs, and the WRU were always afraid to rock to boat. It was only the near bankrupcy of the WRU that changed Welsh rugby to regionalism, though frankly what we have now is Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Llanelli which were the 4 biggest clubs anyway, lol.

AD, thanks

Yes, those were the names of the 4 pro teams in Scotland - one each for the 4 districts I indicated above

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:AD, thanks

Yes, those were the names of the 4 pro teams in Scotland - one each for the 4 districts I indicated above

Glad I got them right, it's been a while since the first Heinaken Cup

I think we should all applaud the WRU for being far more financially astute and Pickering et al have illustrated a much beter fiscal awareness. However, finances aside the shamtuerism of commerical mismanagement and management in general throughout welsh rugby remains endemic from the Ospreys to the National side, where is the accountability for people like Holley, Hore and Howley and our great defence coach when we are leaking trys for fun, where is the edge of anxiety and performance that these people should be working at to achieve their maximum potential. Wales and the WRU remain a comfort zone for those within; including players. That zone will not lead to consistent performances of a standard that the regions players should be achieving and more worryingly for those aspiring to be part of it.