'Well if you can't beat em' should have been the caption...

by Taylorman Fri 15 Jul 2011, 1:47 am

First topic message reminder :

Rugby commentator Keith Quinn has labelled plans by the England team to wear an all-black strip at the Rugby World Cup as ''crazy''.

''Of all the colours in the rainbow, why would they choose the colour of the host nation?'' he said.

''They are thumbing their noses at a New Zealand tradition. It's bizarre."

The new away strip will feature when England kick-off their World Cup campaign against Argentina in Dunedin on September 10.

"The decision is certain to ruffle a few Kiwi feathers and could even spark a diplomatic row with the host nation before a ball has been kicked," The Daily Mail reported.

The shirt and the shorts of the new strip are understood to be jet black, with no other colour except for the Red Rose badge.

The iconic All Blacks jersey has a 127-year history, dating back to 1884. England's new away strip will be officially unveiled by Nike on August 1.

Quinn suspected jersey sales were behind the move.

''They will often switch jerseys so people have to buy the new colour."

The New Zealand rugby public would not be happy, Quinn said.

"I don't think they will throw things, but they will be scornful of England coming into our territory wearing black."

Asked what he thought of the English team's new black away-strip, lock Ali Williams said "I couldn't care what they wear. It's training stuff, not what they play in."

When told it was what they would play in, Williams replied: "Oh it is? All black? Let's hope they don't play us then. It'd look funny, two teams running around in black."

England's move to black also diminished its own proud red and white history, Quinn said.

"It's crazy."

While officially England's away strip, it will be worn for their three World Cup warm-up matches in August and for their tournament opener.

It could be worn for other pool games and beyond, however should England meet the All Blacks in the final they would return to their traditional white uniform.

England's training kit for the World Cup also has a Kiwi twist - with a red rose crest on the chest surrounded by ancient Maori symbols and decorations.

England players were not asked about the colour of the new kit, but were understood to be excited about wearing it even though they risk upsetting the host nation, The Daily Mail reported.

The English Rugby Football Union have spoken to their NZRU counterparts, who reportedly said they had no objection to the black strip.

The All Blacks will unveil a new high-tech jersey against South Africa in their opening Investec Tri Nations match at Westpac Stadium on July 30.

In 2007, a lost coin toss meant the All Blacks had to wear their silver away strip for their ill-fated quarter final against France in Cardiff.

France wore a blue jersey some believed had been darkened in a deliberate move to force the All Blacks out of their iconic strip into the alternate jersey.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/5289989/England-go-all-black-for-Rugby-World-Cup

Don't see any problem... If they think it will make them play better all good. Just a little odd.

Don't see why it would ruffle feathers and the NZRU have said they didn't have a problem with it though you'd think strategically people could come up with better ideas?

by Pot Hale Fri 15 Jul 2011, 11:46 pm

From the RFU website. The change strip is for one game in the RWC - against Argentina. It'll also be used for one of the warm-up matches against Wales.

"England will wear a change strip against Wales on August 6 and against Argentina on September 10 in their Rugby World Cup group match. They will wear their white home shirt in their other RWC pool matches.

Martin Johnson’s side will wear a traditional white kit against Wales at the Millennium Stadium on August 13 and against Ireland at the Aviva Stadium on August 27. Fans will have the opportunity to purchase both the home and change strips, revenues from which will be ploughed back into the grassroots game.

An RFU spokesperson said: "Like all countries, England are obliged by the Rugby World Cup participation agreement to have a change strip. We have worked with Nike on producing a shirt that complies with Rugby World Cup and International Rugby Board regulations and, fully aware of the significance of a black shirt to New Zealand’s players and population as a whole, we have fully consulted with the New Zealand Rugby Union who confirmed they had no issues.

"England will therefore wear the black change shirt against Argentina at the Otago Stadium in Dunedin on September 10 due to a clash with the light blue and white of the Pumas. They will wear their white home shirt in their other RWC pool matches."

by TheGreyGhost Fri 15 Jul 2011, 11:54 pm

That old traditional black that England are so renowned for. I suspect the NZRFU just peed themselves laughing.

by nottins Sat 16 Jul 2011, 12:01 am

Yawn. New Zealand can wear white and draft in as many Samoan, Fijian and Tongan born players as they want, but they know they stil haven't won the RWC since 1987.

by nottins Sat 16 Jul 2011, 12:02 am

TheGreyGhost wrote:That old traditional black that England are so renowned for. I suspect the NZRFU just peed themselves laughing.

That old traditional white that New Zealand are so renowned for. I suspect the RFU just peed themselves laughing.

by TheGreyGhost Sat 16 Jul 2011, 12:04 am

NZ have worn white as the away strip since time immemorial. Always with black shorts. They don't just roll it out for RWC's hosted by England.

by nottins Sat 16 Jul 2011, 12:41 am

"The Rugby Football Union (RFU) have insisted that hosts New Zealand are happy for England to wear a new all-black away kit at the World Cup."

Read it and weep TGG

by maestegmafia Sat 16 Jul 2011, 12:46 am

England have chosen to wear an all black rugby shirt in their first game at the rugby world cup. Kiwi PM is not impressed.

New Zealand prime minister John Key

"I think it's a bunch of wannabes actually, there's only one team that wears black with pride and that's the All Blacks," www.3news.co.nz

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,,12504_7037685,00.html

Apparently the All Blacks who have never lost to England at the world cup are not really bothered.

"People play games I suppose about why they are doing these things, but not a biggie really," ABs Captain Richie McCaw.

England's new kit will also feature ancient Maori symbols and decorations which upsets Professor Ranginui Walker, All Black supporter and Maori affairs political commentator.
"One would think that Maori designs should have a protection of some kind because it's an intellectual property design".

by nottins Sat 16 Jul 2011, 12:50 am

Why on earth have you created another thread about it ? You do know that Wales had a black away strip not that long ago.

by Guest Sat 16 Jul 2011, 12:52 am

nottins wrote:Why on earth have you created another thread about it ? You do know that Wales had a black away strip not that long ago.

Or more relevant that we are having a black change strip in the very near future.

by maestegmafia Sat 16 Jul 2011, 12:53 am

Wales are not wearing black in NZ.

The Welsh change strip is currently gold and doesn't have Maori logos.

by Pot Hale Sat 16 Jul 2011, 1:01 am

nottins wrote:"The Rugby Football Union (RFU) have insisted that hosts New Zealand are happy for England to wear a new all-black away kit at the World Cup."

Read it and weep TGG

Actually, the NZRU said they're happy with it, as long as England don't wear it in match against New Zealand if they were to meet in the RWC.

by maestegmafia Sat 16 Jul 2011, 1:04 am

nottins wrote:Why on earth have you created another thread about it ?

I have only just read about this so how would I have created another thread?

Anyhow as I keep reminding you. Stick to the topic, stop commenting on other posters instead of contributing anything to threads on this forum.

Give us your opinion on what you think about England playing in an All Black shirt with Maori logos on it?

by red_stag Sat 16 Jul 2011, 1:07 am

maestegmafia wrote:
New Zealand prime minister John Key

"I think it's a bunch of wannabes actually, there's only one team that wears black with pride and that's the All Blacks,"

What a crock of horseshit.

But I do agree shame with McCaws comments about mind games and agree its a shame if they are sporting Maori logos on the England shirt.

by nottins Sat 16 Jul 2011, 1:12 am

maestegmafia wrote:Wales are not wearing black in NZ.

Yes they are

maestegmafia wrote:The Welsh change strip is currently gold

Nope, the "away strip" for RWC 2011 is black/red. Pot, kettle and black springs to mine

by nottins Sat 16 Jul 2011, 1:20 am

maestegmafia wrote:
I have only just read about this so how would I have created another thread?

There is already a thread about it, you have created another thread about it.

maestegmafia wrote:Anyhow as I keep reminding you. Stick to the topic, stop commenting on other posters instead of contributing anything to threads on this forum.

And as I keep reminding you, I am on topic. Where did I comment about you exactly ?

maestegmafia wrote:Give us your opinion on what you think about England playing in an All Black shirt with Maori logos on it?

What is wrong with them playing in a black shirt ? It's just a colour and Wales have already done it. What is your opinion of Wales playing in a black shirt ?

by maestegmafia Sat 16 Jul 2011, 1:25 am

nottins wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Wales are not wearing black in NZ.

Yes they are

maestegmafia wrote:The Welsh change strip is currently gold

Nope, the "away strip" for RWC 2011 is black/red. Pot, kettle and black springs to mine

It appears i was wrong, we have dropped the gold and Wales are wearing red and black. But as we have been weariring black as part of our kit since the 1940s it is very different to England, who have a black shirt with Maori logos on it.

But that is not the subject here so please stop straying off topic..!

What is your opinion on Englands new black shirt with Maori prints? Or what are your opinions on John Keyes or Richie McCaws comments.

by nottins Sat 16 Jul 2011, 1:31 am

Actually Wales are wearing black and red, not red and black, huge difference.

by aucklandlaurie Sat 16 Jul 2011, 1:37 am

As a New Zealander I have no problem with anyone wearing a black jersey,English,Welsh or anyone,but If they started wearing one with a Silver fern on it ,well I dont know what Id do.
I just hope ,(if all this was to become reality) that they wear the blck jersey with pride and dont cheapen it by playing badly.
One things for sure, and thanks to the English,The media will dfinitely be in attendance at the official launch of the "kits". Well done England......

by maestegmafia Sat 16 Jul 2011, 1:42 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: As a New Zealander I have no problem with anyone wearing a black jersey,English,Welsh or anyone,but If they started wearing one with a Silver fern on it ,well I dont know what Id do.
I just hope ,(if all this was to become reality) that they wear the blck jersey with pride and dont cheapen it by playing badly.
One things for sure, and thanks to the English,The media will dfinitely be in attendance at the official launch of the "kits". Well done England......

What do you think about PM Keyes stance on the matter? Or Richie McCaws?

by **Pal Joey** Sat 16 Jul 2011, 1:43 am

Hands off our gold jersey fellas...

England wearing an all black strip is fine by me. NZ don't mind playing in white or grey from time to time.

by **Pal Joey** Sat 16 Jul 2011, 1:47 am

I can't wait to see the Winchester Haka either... censored

...apparently it's very intimidating.

by maestegmafia Sat 16 Jul 2011, 1:51 am

nottins wrote:Actually Wales are wearing black and red, not red and black, huge difference.

No

Wales, as always are wearing a red shirt, their alternative as I said I stand corrected is black.

You spend all your time on this forum attempting to wind people up. Generally welsh people as well.

Do you have a problem ?

Because I am sick of your attitude. I hear you have been warned several times by moderators and admins about your behaviour. It might do you well to listen and maybe contribute something interesting for a change!!!

by Hood83 Sat 16 Jul 2011, 2:00 am

Doesn't appear that the vast majority of AB fans care too much about this. I think it'd be good to respect the traditions of New Zealand but ultimately, there are only so many colours in the rainbow, we're going to offend someone surely. And before anyone points to our grey and purple kits - they were offensive on almost every level of sartorial decency. I mean, PURPLE? Vile

Anyway, £90 is an utter pi$$ take. I can't see it exactly flying off the shelves, can you?

by nottins Sat 16 Jul 2011, 2:01 am

maestegmafia wrote:

No

Wales, as always are wearing a red shirt, their alternative as I said I stand corrected is black.

Exactly as I said .

maestegmafia wrote:You spend all your time on this forum attempting to wind people up. Generally welsh people as well.

Do you have a problem ?

No, I point out the facts to people.

You spend most of your time on this forum attempitng to wind English people up, do you have a problem ?

maestegmafia wrote:
Because I am sick of your attitude. I hear you have been warned several times by moderators and admins about your behaviour. It might do you well to listen and maybe contribute something interesting for a change!!!

Please heed your own advice, stay on topic and not make personal comments.

by aucklandlaurie Sat 16 Jul 2011, 2:04 am

Maestag
Actually john Key aint a bad guy,poltician first,merchant banker 2nd,inside I think he would be laughing about this,and adopting a "any publicity is good publicity" stance.
one interview I saw last night of Richie McCaw,it was treated with hilarity,and it culminated that it was ok if turned out that NZ got knocked out of the WC early then New zealanders could then support England their 2nd "black" team.........

by The_Hound_of_Harrow Sat 16 Jul 2011, 2:05 am

Jeez, this is all cack. Play your opponent, not the colour, or design, of their shirt; and be better than them. When has a shirt come into things in terms of trying to beat the opposition?

Neath, change your kit right now! You are no longer allowed to wear a black strip.

by nottins Sat 16 Jul 2011, 2:05 am

Why should we care about what New Zealand fans think ? There are only 7 colours in a rainbow, black isn't one of them.

£90 is supposedly the price of the strip, not the shirt

by nottins Sat 16 Jul 2011, 2:07 am

Blimey Hound have you just got back from your local disco club ? ;-)

by The_Hound_of_Harrow Sat 16 Jul 2011, 2:13 am

And, in rugby, only in NZ would a Prime Minister involve themselves in this discussion.

Mr. Key, your Government is not under threat because England want to play in a black strip thumbsup

by aucklandlaurie Sat 16 Jul 2011, 2:16 am

doggie
Have you been on the syrup?????????

by The_Hound_of_Harrow Sat 16 Jul 2011, 2:20 am

Nottins, nothing on board other than a moderate amount of London Pride. Then trying to get people home by sharing my cab. Very Happy

. They dallied a while (err, as did I), hence the late postings.

I stand by what I said though - play your opponent.

by blackcanelion Sat 16 Jul 2011, 2:28 am

I think this is a media beat up. I don't care if England want to wear a black alternate strip and I suspect most kiwis don't. It's a marketing ploy. Reading the comments I think the likes of McCaw and key treated it as such. Keys comments are his attempt at humour, aimed at a kiwi male audience.

I do wonder if it's a wise decision by the RFU. It does have the potential, if the media stir enough, to set the NZ public against England. Seems symptomatic of the RFU at the moment.

by The_Hound_of_Harrow Sat 16 Jul 2011, 2:37 am

laurie - not as much as I might have done!

You guys need this RWC win, and if my lot can't manage it (which I can't see), I hope you bag the thing. thumbsup

by welshjohn369 Sat 16 Jul 2011, 3:52 am

Good grief TGG made a fool of himself agqain didn't he bwhahahahahaha

The Queen is so much so the Head of State in NZ we have a Govenor General and if you do become a citizen of NZ you pledge allegience to the Queen!

I know I live in NZ as a Citizen of the country now.

GG certainly has no idea of the Treaty of Waitangi and in complete honesty is on in a very small minority. I imaine he will be voting for Mr Brash in the fourthcoming elections.

Not many issues here in NZ about the English Black shirt to be honest just TGG trying to use the thread to throw his bigotry and hatered around.

by boomeranga Sat 16 Jul 2011, 4:03 am

maestegmafia wrote:Wales are not wearing black in NZ.

The Welsh change strip is currently gold and doesn't have Maori logos.

That's an outrage.

by antipodean Sat 16 Jul 2011, 4:23 am

nottins wrote:That old traditional white that New Zealand are so renowned for. I suspect the RFU just peed themselves laughing.

New Zealand's alternate strip was always the white top.

by **Pal Joey** Sat 16 Jul 2011, 4:26 am

I'm sure Julia Gillard will have a word with your Rugby Board, mm.

We are gold!

She always seems to get what she wants.

by antipodean Sat 16 Jul 2011, 4:27 am

ancient Maori symbols and decorations

Nice of them to pay homage while playing in New Zealand. Classy touch RFU.

by Countnefarious Sat 16 Jul 2011, 4:30 am

http://footballfashion.wordpress.com/2009/10/14/new-zealand-all-blacks-adidas-200910-alternate-rugby-kit-jersey/

by Artful_Dodger Sat 16 Jul 2011, 4:31 am

I think this has the potential to be a bit of a PR disaster for England in the same way the Grand Slam T-Shirts were. I think in some cases having the hosting countries symbols would be a nice gesture but going for a black jersey with Maori symbols is just taking the urine a bit.

by **Pal Joey** Sat 16 Jul 2011, 4:32 am

Countnefarious,

The Fijians will be luvud!

by blackcanelion Sat 16 Jul 2011, 4:40 am

Countnefarious wrote:http://footballfashion.wordpress.com/2009/10/14/new-zealand-all-blacks-adidas-200910-alternate-rugby-kit-jersey/

Not sure what your point is. The Ab's have had an alternate white strip for much of their existance. You can't compare the two in terms of history. That said I don't have a problem with an alternate black strip for england. I think it's a good idea. I think the timing and the addition of the Maori logo is poor judgement only because they risk alienating their team from local fans at the world cup. If it goes wrong, every team they face will be the crowd favourite.....

by antipodean Sat 16 Jul 2011, 4:47 am

blackcanelion wrote:
Countnefarious wrote:http://footballfashion.wordpress.com/2009/10/14/new-zealand-all-blacks-adidas-200910-alternate-rugby-kit-jersey/

Not sure what your point is. The Ab's have had an alternate white strip for much of their existance.

The All Blacks first donning an all-white jersey in 1930 for the domestic Test series against the touring British Isles team... thumbsup

by **Pal Joey** Sat 16 Jul 2011, 4:48 am

blackcanelion wrote:
Countnefarious wrote:http://footballfashion.wordpress.com/2009/10/14/new-zealand-all-blacks-adidas-200910-alternate-rugby-kit-jersey/

If it goes wrong, every team they face will be the crowd favourite.....

You mean even bigger crowd favourites. It defies logic doesn't it, blackcanelion?

I have a feeling the run up to the RWC is going to get even hotter - with words and gestures designed to rattle opponents. Should be very interesting to see the affect this has on various teams.

by welshjohn369 Sat 16 Jul 2011, 6:26 am

antipodean wrote:
nottins wrote:That old traditional white that New Zealand are so renowned for. I suspect the RFU just peed themselves laughing.
New Zealand's alternate strip was always the white top.

"WAS" suggests an historical flavour. They wore grey when France beat them.

by Portnoy Sat 16 Jul 2011, 9:06 am

All Blacks away shirt:
http://www.allblackshop.com/the-jersey/all-blacks-replica-away-jersey.html

Also from http://www.rfu.com/News/2011/July/News%20Articles/150711_kit.aspx

"
England will wear a change strip against Wales on August 6 and
against Argentina on September 10 in their Rugby World Cup group match.
They will wear their white home shirt in their other RWC pool matches.
Martin Johnson’s side will wear a traditional white kit against
Wales at the Millennium Stadium on August 13 and against Ireland at the
Aviva Stadium on August 27. Fans will have the opportunity to purchase
both the home and change strips, revenues from which will be ploughed
back into the grassroots game.
An RFU spokesperson said: "Like all countries, England are
obliged by the Rugby World Cup participation agreement to have a change
strip. We have worked with Nike on producing a shirt that complies with
Rugby World Cup and International Rugby Board regulations and, fully
aware of the significance of a black shirt to New Zealand’s players and
population as a whole, we have fully consulted with the New Zealand
Rugby Union who confirmed they had no issues.
"England will therefore wear the black change shirt against
Argentina at the Otago Stadium in Dunedin on September 10 due to a clash
with the light blue and white of the Pumas. They will wear their white
home shirt in their other RWC pool matches.
"We believe the black shirt will be very popular with supporters
as previous change shirts, such as purple and anthracite in November
2009 and 2010 respectively, have been. To that end England will wear the
black shirt against Wales at Twickenham Stadium on August 6, giving
supporters chance to see and purchase the change strip, revenues from
which will be ploughed back into the grassroots of the game as part of
the Rugby Football Union’s £20m-plus investment in the sport each year.
England will wear their white home strip against Wales at the Millennium
Stadium on August 13 and against Ireland at the Aviva Stadium on August
27."

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 16 Jul 2011, 9:14 am

nottins wrote:There are only 7 colours in a rainbow, black isn't one of them.

Try telling that to Luke Mcallister

by emack2 Sat 16 Jul 2011, 9:38 am

Irony All Blacks away strip by tradition[except for that awful grey one in 2007]White shirt,Black shorts.
Englands has changed most seasons presumably for commercial reasons,
this year its Black.
The All Blacks shirt is not just that,it is a dynasty since 1905 that every wearer has to try to live up to there tradition.
A shirt what ever colour cannot emulate that.

by welshjohn369 Sat 16 Jul 2011, 9:45 am

emack2 wrote:Irony All Blacks away strip by tradition[except for that awful grey one in 2007]White shirt,Black shorts.
Englands has changed most seasons presumably for commercial reasons,
this year its Black.
The All Blacks shirt is not just that,it is a dynasty since 1905 that every wearer has to try to live up to there tradition.
A shirt what ever colour cannot emulate that.

Any Nation's shirt is the same, no difference between NZ or any other country is there?

by damngoodOvalball Sat 16 Jul 2011, 10:17 am

RE the black shirt, most Kiwis dont seem to bothered about it at all. Its just GG and a few other self pitying victims who commented on the NZ Herald article.

Ultimately its Neath, the origional All Blacks who the RFU should approach for permission, and not the Adidas collective in the South Pacific...

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