Tiger Dumps Stevie

First topic message reminder :

Anyone else see a lot of tweets about Tiger getting rid of Stevie. I do wonder if stevie got the news a while back and that is why he has started to work with Adam Scott. Not sure what to make of this regards tigers return to former glory?

Using USA Today as a source is about as far down the credibility pole as you could possibly slide.

S_R I've said before that its a long lay off for just a ligament strain. No one really knew about Tiger having all those affairs so how do we categorically know he hasnt had another knee op? He could have easily had key hole and we wouldnt know. Another theory for the long lay off could be - leaving all the PEDs rumours aside if he did get legal, above board treatment from Dr Galea - maybe Tiger is struggling to manage his knee now his doctor is unavailable?

However, I'm not sure in this day and age he will be finished, or rather his knee will be finished. Depending if he really did just strain his knee and achilles or if he did require an op he'll be back fit either in the next few weeks or the beginning of next season and we'll find out his new caddie when he turns up for his first tournament.

PS I think perhaps his achilles injury has been lost and forgotten in all this due to the history with the knee. His heel could well be the main reason for the 3month+ recovery.

I didn't say he's had another knee-op. I simply said that so far he's had four, and there are plenty of reports to back it up.

KeizoYamata wrote:You said he had 4 operations on his knees its only a few posts above this for all to see. Where did the number 4 come from?

He has, apparently had 4 operations on his knee. I suspect that's where the 4 came from.

Back up -

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/article-23969275-tom-watson-i-doubt-tiger-woods-will-get-back-to-no1.do

super_realist wrote:Yes, next time I get an oil change I must choose Valvoline because it is endorsed by Steve Williams.

You dont count it's for people who matter.

He would not get "millions" for that. Even players like Donald only get a million for having a Mizuno visor, and he's the star man, not a bag carrier in the background.

Luke Who? It's all about exposure. The amount of exposure Steve gets in-comparison to Luke Who miles apart. You really have no idea about marketing, branding and media exposure pls stop . Steve has 9yrs with Valvoline and you don't think it is worth millions.?

Valvoline, that well known Golf OEM.

He's really done lots to raise the profile of that particular product hasn't he.

To claim that Steve Williams has a bigger global profile than the world's number one golfer is absurd.

Pathetic.

super_realist wrote:Using USA Today as a source is about as far down the credibility pole as you could possibly slide.

I used BBC funny you ignored that Oh but they are not right wing enough for you I guess

Valvoline? What is that?

You were still wrong in terms of the context.
I had only said that Woods has had four knee operations, which he has. How you misinterpret everything I say purely to react in a WUM-like manner is your own childish business.

super_realist wrote:You were still wrong in terms of the context.
I had only said that Woods has had four knee operations, which he has. How you misinterpret everything I say purely to react in a WUM-like manner is your own childish business.

Hang on you said he did not have a sprain on his knee, I posted facts to back this up but you tried to rebuff it by saying usatoday was not good enough, but you seem to ignore the fact I posted a BBC link? ooops Here's the deal SR, name your favourite right wing source and I would post a link that confirms they agree Tiger had a sprain on his knee. How about that for proof?


Now post your facts to back he had more than a spain on the knee. Pls I am waiting

*Looks like SR wont be posting this any time soon*

I didn't actuallty say he didn't have a sprain, I questioned whether a sprain would keep you out for as long as it has.
Sources may well report that he had a sprain, doesn't mean it's true. They used to paint him as an angel too, that was wrong wasn't it.
Neither you nor I are doctors so neither of us can say conclusively.


What has right wing sources got to do with it? One step away from Godwin's Law Keizo.

Surely your McDonalds shift starts soon and we'll get some peace.

Keizo, as the discussion progresses all you do is ingore all the bits you're wrong on and let them fall by the wayside and keep pressing the one bit that's correct, whilst claiming you deal in facts.

I've never come across anyone on here who deals less in facts! and that's a fact!

Shame, this was an interesting thread for a while.

MustPuttBetter wrote:Keizo, as the discussion progresses all you do is ingore all the bits you're wrong on and let them fall by the wayside and keep pressing the one bit that's correct, whilst claiming you deal in facts.

I've never come across anyone on here who deals less in facts! and that's a fact!

Where have I been wrong? Everything I have said is a fact

Tiger only had a sprain in his knee FACT
Tiger did not have an operation FACT
Steve has more exposure and is more famous than Luke Donald FACT


Tiger has only had 3 operations

First in the mid 90's
Second in 2002
Third in 2008

Oh yeah you and SR quote some daily mail journalist as your source for 4 operations?

KeizoYamata wrote:Tiger only had a sprain in his knee FACT

False - unless his Achilles is so messed up that it's migrated up his lower leg to his knee

Keizo, he had two operations in 2008. Meaning he has had four.

One in April, one in June.

New York Times good enough for you?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/13/sports/golf/tiger-woods-withdraws-from-players-championship.html?pagewanted=all

or perhaps The Daily Telegraph




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/tigerwoods/3105456/Tiger-Woods-recovery-could-take-two-years-Golf.html

or how about ESPN

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3993612

what the hell, here's another from GOlftoday:

http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/yeartodate/news_08/tiger_woods_26.html


Need I go on?

sharrison01 wrote:I think that debating the earnings of Tiger's caddy might be a bit more complex than the 10% standard rate that most caddies command. I'm sure that Williams did get a larger pay than most caddies because he was a part of "brand Tiger." It does not mean that Rolex will be shelling out for a double act but I would expect there to be more money flowing to Williams than just a hat deal. Wouldn't surprise me if Tiger just gave him an annual salary or certainly more than just a percentage of winnings because he was an integral part of Tiger, both on and off the course.

You are too good for this thread. This is what I have been trying to tell them. They also fail to understand the whole 'brand' and potential income outside the golf course. Stay around and educate them some more

KeizoYamata wrote:Where have I been wrong? Everything I have said is a fact

Tiger only had a sprain in his knee FACT
Tiger did not have an operation FACT
Steve has more exposure and is more famous than Luke Donald FACT


Tiger has only had 3 operations

First in the mid 90's
Second in 2002
Third in 2008

Oh yeah you and SR quote some daily mail journalist as your source for 4 operations?

What rubbish.
You believe everything you say to be fact, presumably because you said it?

You started off saying Billy Foster would be richer if he moved to Tiger. This has been adequately debunked and has fallen to the wayside.
You implied your certainty that Tiger would come back to form. Is that a fact? Subsequently ignored.
You 'educated' us that Williams has made more off the course than on which has generally been disagreed with and you've produced nothing to 'back up' this 'fact'
You say Williams is more famous than Donald. How is this a fact Einstein?? Prove it.
You dispute that Tiger has had 4 operations on his knee, and yes this is common knowledge. If the link i posted before isn't good enough (can't see the difference between the Mail and USA Today myself), how about ESPN? -

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=6431557

The ONLY thing you have right is that he hasn't had an operation on his achillies, and you're clinging to it for dear life!
It's embarrassing!

super_realist wrote:I didn't actuallty say he didn't have a sprain, I questioned whether a sprain would keep you out for as long as it has.

You words:

A sprain? You really are a wind up merchant.

I showed you links he had a sprain on his knee you had nothing to back up he did not. The issue which you missed was not so much his knee but his Achilles. This was the main issue but it was not that serious. True to form you jumped in without having a clue about what you are talking about.

Sources may well report that he had a sprain, doesn't mean it's true.

Yeah thats right I mean why dont we just refute everything this way and not deal with the facts. Just the way you like to do it

They used to paint him as an angel too, that was wrong wasn't it.

Wait a minute., are you saying 'THEY' Knew he was having an affair and tried project him as an angel all the time?And the same poeple are trying to cover up Tiger injury? More laughable stuff from SR

What has right wing sources got to do with it? One step away from Godwin's Law Keizo.

Funny comment from someone who was quick to jump on usatoday's credibility.

Surely your McDonalds shift starts soon and we'll get some peace.

You cant use these types of comeback on me, must try harder.

You read too much into everything and jump to some really strange assumptions.
No wonder you aren't well liked on this forum.

And oddly enough, now Keizo has been proven to be incorrect beyond reasonable doubt on the 4 operation question, it's sheepishly left out altogether

Predictable and boring!.........

super_realist wrote:Keizo, he had two operations in 2008. Meaning he has had four.

One in April, one in June.

New York Times good enough for you?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/13/sports/golf/tiger-woods-withdraws-from-players-championship.html?pagewanted=all

or perhaps The Daily Telegraph




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/tigerwoods/3105456/Tiger-Woods-recovery-could-take-two-years-Golf.html

or how about ESPN

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3993612

what the hell, here's another from GOlftoday:

http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/yeartodate/news_08/tiger_woods_26.html


Need I go on?

Finally I have given you something to feel good about. Never knew you could hurry and post links so fast to back up something.

Yes I was wrong, I forgot about the one in April. Does not take away the fact he did not have a sprain on this knee but then again you already know this but you have already insinuated that they might be lying and covering things up.

It is always a littel funny when someone confuses their opinion with the facts.

Well done kez

KeizoYamata wrote:

super_realist wrote:Keizo, he had two operations in 2008. Meaning he has had four.

One in April, one in June.

New York Times good enough for you?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/13/sports/golf/tiger-woods-withdraws-from-players-championship.html?pagewanted=all

or perhaps The Daily Telegraph




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/tigerwoods/3105456/Tiger-Woods-recovery-could-take-two-years-Golf.html

or how about ESPN

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3993612

what the hell, here's another from GOlftoday:

http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/yeartodate/news_08/tiger_woods_26.html


Need I go on?

Finally I have given you something to feel good about. Never knew you could hurry and post links so fast to back up something.

Yes I was wrong, I forgot about the one in April. Does not take away the fact he did not have a sprain on this knee but then again you already know this but you have already insinuated that they might be lying and covering things up.

i couldnt imagine Woods ever covering anything up?

So now you are saying he did not have a sprain on his knee.
Make your mind up.

KeizoYamata wrote:Yes I was wrong, I forgot about the one in April. Does not take away the fact he did not have a sprain on this knee but then again you already know this but you have already insinuated that they might be lying and covering things up.

AKA - "Yes i was wrong but the fact remains that i was right........"

Hilarious
Why are you here Keizo? You already know everything!

You started off saying Billy Foster would be richer if he moved to Tiger. This has been adequately debunked and has fallen to the wayside.

How as that been debunked? I must have missed it, remind me again how he would end up poorer if he left Westwood and joined Tiger?

You implied your certainty that Tiger would come back to form. Is that a fact?

lHahaha this is laughbale. I said Tiger would come back. Nothing was mentioned about him coming back to form. Must learn to read and putt better

You 'educated' us that Williams has made more off the course than on which has generally been disagreed with and you've produced nothing to 'back up' this 'fact'

How has this been disproved? Do you know all this commercial interests outside the golf course? No!

You say Williams is more famous than Donald. How is this a fact Einstein?? Prove it.

Anyone who thinks Luke who only got some minor coverage in recent years is more known than Williams is really lacking . Pls dont tell me all those 13 majors and 80+ tournaments where Tiger and Williams have appeared together on the 18th hole accounts for nothing in peoples memory. Ask any causal viewer what their memory of luke is and they would have none, many wont even know who he is. This is just common sense.

Even Fluff is famous. Many wont have had a clue who he was if not for Tiger.

Does anyone even know who caddies for Luke?Quick Google it

Keizo, one word: Desperate.

Almost everything you have said is an assumption and not a single person has agreed with you on anything you have said. What does that tell you?

Keizo, i'm not the one declaring my comments to be fact
Tell me how anything you have said is fact, as you claim????

Give me proof showing how Foster would be richer than he is now if he joined Tiger
Give me proof that Tiger is coming back
Give me proof that Williams is more famous than Donald

You can't!
PUT UP OR SHUT UP (to quote you)

KeizoYamata wrote:

super_realist wrote:Why would Foster leave a guy who is almost at the top of the rankings and at the top of the game to join a guy whose ranking is dropping like a stone and who is a virtual cripple in golfing terms with no certainty to ever come back to form?

Top of the ranking with no majors. Yeah good one, maybe he can keep waiting another 10years? Good luck with that. Billy has be mentioned for the job in the past. He knows he would be more famous than Westwood and richer than any caddie if he takes the job. He knows this and everyone knows this. As for no certainty to come back? There is only one thing certain and that you have no idea about 99% of the things you post

ps quote above re Tiger Woods and your comment of coming back being in the context of form
Must learn to type and read hey??

super_realist wrote:Keizo, one word: Desperate.

Almost everything you have said is an assumption and not a single person has agreed with you on anything you have said. What does that tell you?
T

You accuse me of making an assumptions?


This is coming from the same guy who said:

Tiger wont ever win a tournament
Tiger wont ever be back
Tiger and his team are not telling the truth about his injury
Tiger did not have had a sprain to his knee
Billy Foster wont earn as much if he left Westwood for Tiger

He didn't put 'FACT' after them

It's an opinion Keizo, that's clearly the bit you don't get

Good God. What a thread

Getting back on topic (shocking I know), old Stevie boy doesn't mince his words, that's for sure!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/golf/14231895.stm

Oh sorry... FACT*

*may still contain elements of opinion

I have always thought Steve Williams was the pimp involved in getting Tiger the hookers and porn stars!

Guys,

Can you all please stop arguing with Keizo. He's obviously Tiger's doctor and knows his full medical history, while the rest of you are just relying on speculation in the press and have no knowledge of the FACTS.

Can we please move on.

I think Elin will be Tiger's next caddy. She is certainly used to handling his club

Has anyone heard from Rafa Benitez recently? He liked a good fact.

Ok ignoring the bile above.

Did anyone else read what Stevie had to say. He basically accused tiger of causing him to waste two years of his life. I get the feeling this was not an amicable split despite their supposed friendship. I really wonder who tiger’s friends really are and whether he actually has any. If this is the case it is very sad.

Has it taken until now, since the breaking of the scandal, for wood to actually start again and rebuild. I wonder if his previous attempt was just going through the motions. Is this time of actually a swing rebuild and sacking Stevie an attempt to rid himself of those who did not provide better guidance in the past?

This has turned out to be one boring thread......the clash of personalities should have been discouraged about 20 posts ago. Twas like witnessing a car crash.

Much ado about nothing, IMO.

If any golfer didn't need a caddy to help him manage his way around a course it's Tiger. To the extent TW's caddy is also his personal valet however? I can't intelligently speak to that!

Good too for Stevie to find a regular gig. Adam Scott is a top bag to have.

Also ignoring the bile:

Stevie certainly sounded bitter, great interview!

It might all have come to a head when he flew from his home in NZ to his home in Oregon to caddie for TW in the US Open, only to discover when he arrived that Tiger had w/d'd without notifying Stevie. Perhaps that was the genesis for taking Adam Scott's bag? Wonder if Stevie actually confronted TW with that, perhaps at Aronomink and that that led to the split? Regardless, it is shocking that Shotrock, 606v2's on-the-spot correspondent at Aronomink, didn't alert us all to what's going on.

As "what goes around comes around", Tiger could do much worse than hire Tony Navarro for the rest of this year. Haven't seen anything to suggest that Navarro and Cabrera are a fixture. Anyway, all will become clear sooner rather than later if TW plays Turning Stone.

McLaren wrote:Ok ignoring the bile above.

Did anyone else read what Stevie had to say. He basically accused tiger of causing him to waste two years of his life. I get the feeling this was not an amicable split despite their supposed friendship. I really wonder who tiger’s friends really are and whether he actually has any. If this is the case it is very sad.

Has it taken until now, since the breaking of the scandal, for wood to actually start again and rebuild. I wonder if his previous attempt was just going through the motions. Is this time of actually a swing rebuild and sacking Stevie an attempt to rid himself of those who did not provide better guidance in the past?

A big mistake IMO. SW one of the few people who Tiger could count on. I doubt he would ever find another caddie as good as him. I doubt there is another caddie as good as him.

Navarro has apparently said he's open to the offer

KeizoYamata wrote:

super_realist wrote:Keizo, one word: Desperate.

Almost everything you have said is an assumption and not a single person has agreed with you on anything you have said. What does that tell you?
T

You accuse me of making an assumptions?


This is coming from the same guy who said:

Tiger wont ever win a tournament
Tiger wont ever be back
Tiger and his team are not telling the truth about his injury
Tiger did not have had a sprain to his knee
Billy Foster wont earn as much if he left Westwood for Tiger

Keizo, Though I am loath to carry on your pathetic argument, the only thing I said of those you list is that Foster won't earn as much if he left Westwood and went to Woods back, you've no evidence to suggest that to be false, just as I have no proof it to be true, but bearing in mind the collective on course earnings of Westwood and Woods over the past two years, it's clear that Westwood is currently a better horse to be backing.

If Williams was making so much off Woods, why did he feel the need to moonlight on Scott's bag in Wood's absense? Valvoline not paying as much as you thought?

Kwin -- Good point! Although I was working at the tournament, I should have been more observant. My wife will be the first to tell you I'm lacking in that respect.

A couple Uticans coming down for a one-day M/G today. Same pin positions as tournament Sunday. I'm hoping none of those CNY's get heat stroke -- walking only and it will be a scorcher!

Sr,
I hope there'll be Matts beer balls on every tee and every green? Keep up the local tradition!

super_realist wrote:

KeizoYamata wrote:

super_realist wrote:Keizo, one word: Desperate.

Almost everything you have said is an assumption and not a single person has agreed with you on anything you have said. What does that tell you?
T

You accuse me of making an assumptions?


This is coming from the same guy who said:

Tiger wont ever win a tournament
Tiger wont ever be back
Tiger and his team are not telling the truth about his injury
Tiger did not have had a sprain to his knee
Billy Foster wont earn as much if he left Westwood for Tiger

Keizo, Though I am loath to carry on your pathetic argument, the only thing I said of those you list is that Foster won't earn as much if he left Westwood and went to Woods back, you've no evidence to suggest that to be false, just as I have no proof it to be true, but bearing in mind the collective on course earnings of Westwood and Woods over the past two years, it's clear that Westwood is currently a better horse to be backing.

I agree neither of us can say for certain who would earn more money in future between Tiger or Westwood. But While you are using the last 2 years as you barometer, I use Tigers last 18years. Talent like his does not just disappear and I am happy he is not rushisng to come back as he is playing the long game. You might think he should should have been back sooner otherwise it is a serious injury. I beg to differ, He should not come back till next year. There is no rush, seeing Darren Clarke win should be a reminder that golf offers long temr benefits if you are ready to work on your game an be patient. Tiger is being patient.

If Williams was making so much off Woods, why did he feel the need to moonlight on Scott's bag in Wood's absense? Valvoline not paying as much as you thought?

I don't know the ins and outs, but had Tiger not fired Williams before he went on Scots bag? I have to attend to my McDonalds Shift

Woods is no longer in a class of One as he used to be. There are plenty players who are playing great these days. Therefore the past 14 years (don't know where you get 18 and in 2 almost 3 of the 14 he's done nothing special) are largely irrelevant as it is absolutely no guarantee of future earnings as there are at least a dozen players who could challenge Woods week in week out.

Must be a major "strain" if he is having to play the "long" game, perhaps a chinese burn, carpet burn or paper cut.

Kwin - The good old days!!

After my joke earlier about Tiger and Fanny (which was met with somewhat mixed reaction ) I now see this one twittersphere

"Bookie PaddyPower has Fanny Sunesson heavy fave at 6/4."

Surely not!