England 23-19 Wales Players ranking out of ten

by maestegmafia Sat 06 Aug 2011, 6:12 pm

England:
15 Armitage
14 Banahan
13 Tuilagi
12 Flutey
11 Cueto
10 Wilkinson
9 Care
1 Corbisiero
2 Hartley
3 Stevens
4 Shaw
5 Palmer
6 Croft
7 Moody (capt)
8 Haskell

Replacements:
Mears (for Hartley, 58)
Wilson (for Stevens, 58, Stevens 71 for Corbisiero)
Botha (for Shaw, 58)
Wood (for Moody, 61)
Wigglesworth (for Care, 58)
Hodgson (for Wilkinson, 76)
Sharples (for Tuilagi, 59).

Wales:

15 Stoddart
14 North
13 Davies
12 Roberts
11 Shane Williams
10 Priestland
9 Phillips
1 James
2 Bennett
3 Mitchell
4 Davies
5 AW Jones
6 Lydiate
7 Warburton (capt)
8 Faletau

Replacements:

Burns (for Bennett, 65)
Bevington (for James, 65)
Charteris (for AW Jones, 65)
R Jones (for Faletau, 55)
Knoyle (for Phillips, 61)
Scott Williams (for Stoddart, 48)

Referee: S Walsh (ARU)

by maestegmafia Sat 06 Aug 2011, 6:15 pm

England:
15 Armitage 5
14 Banahan 4
13 Tuilagi 7
12 Flutey 4
11 Cueto 3
10 Wilkinson 8
9 Care 5
1 Corbisiero 7
2 Hartley 7
3 Stevens 6
4 Shaw 5
5 Palmer 6
6 Croft 6
7 Moody (capt) 6
8 Haskell 8

Replacements:
Mears (for Hartley, 58) 5
Wilson (for Stevens, 58, Stevens 71 for Corbisiero) 4
Botha (for Shaw, 58) 5
Wood (for Moody, 61) 5
Wigglesworth (for Care, 58) 5
Hodgson (for Wilkinson, 76) 5
Sharples (for Tuilagi, 59) 4

Wales:

15 Stoddart 6
14 North 8
13 Davies 6
12 Roberts 7
11 Shane Williams 8
10 Priestland 8
9 Phillips 7
1 James 6
2 Bennett 8
3 Mitchell 6
4 Davies 5
5 AW Jones 5
6 Lydiate 8
7 Warburton (capt) 8
8 Faletau 6

Replacements:

Burns (for Bennett, 65) 5
Bevington (for James, 65) 5
Charteris (for AW Jones, 65) 5
R Jones (for Faletau, 55) 6
Knoyle (for Phillips, 61) 9
Scott Williams (for Stoddart, 48) 5

Referee: S Walsh (ARU) 8-10 good performance, kept the game at an even temper

by Turkster Sat 06 Aug 2011, 6:20 pm

Shane Williams 8, really? I thought he looked very rusty and was inneffective, no way he rated more than Tuilagi.

by maestegmafia Sat 06 Aug 2011, 6:22 pm

Turkster wrote:Shane Williams 8, really? I thought he looked very rusty and was inneffective, no way he rated more than Tuilagi.

Write your own marks out of ten then mate...!

by Countnefarious Sat 06 Aug 2011, 6:25 pm

I'm just gonna do the England XV otherwise this will get really congested.

Armitage: 7.5 (Never got enough ball, but did everything asked of him, preventing a Welsh try and nearly scoring his own in the process. Huge improvement.)
Banahan: 5
Tuilagi: 7 (Great run for his try, but didn't do much else other than a high tackle, a missed tackle, and some dropped balls. Still impressive though.)
Flutey: 3
Cueto: 4
Wilkinson: 8 (Deserved man of the match with a mature and confident performance. He made a number of telling runs that people don't seem to have noticed.)
Care: 8 (Really solid performance. Passed well, ran well, tackled well (Shane Williams) and generally had a great game.)
Corbisiero: 5
Hartley: 5
Stevens: 6
Shaw: 8 (Really impressed me today.)
Palmer: 6
Croft: 5
Moody: 6
Haskell: 7.5

With the exception of Shaw, the front five scrummaged well and went quietly about their jobs, but I didn't see anyone really standing out.

by Countnefarious Sat 06 Aug 2011, 6:28 pm

"Shane Williams 8, really? I thought he looked very rusty and was inneffective, no way he rated more than Tuilagi."

Shane Williams scored a try and generally looked the most dangerous runner on the pitch despite his errors in my opinion. Big Manu was physically impressive, but I don't think he did as much as little Shane. Then again, he didn't get as much ball or game time.

by Manu's Boxing Coach Sat 06 Aug 2011, 6:34 pm

Corbisiero 5
Hartley 5
Stevens 7
Shaw 9
Palmer 5
Croft 6
Moody 6
Haskell 6

Care 8
Wilko 7
Cueto 5
Flutey 5
Tuilagi 7
Banahan 6
Armitage 7

by TycroesOsprey Sat 06 Aug 2011, 6:41 pm

England:
15 Armitage-7
14 Banahan-6
13 Tuilagi-7
12 Flutey-6
11 Cueto-5
10 Wilkinson-8
9 Care-7
1 Corbisiero-6
2 Hartley-5
3 Stevens-7
4 Shaw-7
5 Palmer-6
6 Croft-7
7 Moody (capt)-6
8 Haskell-6

Wales:

15 Stoddart-7
14 North-8
13 Davies-6
12 Roberts-7
11 Shane Williams-6
10 Priestland-7
9 Phillips-6
1 James-6
2 Bennett-6
3 Mitchell-5
4 Davies-5
5 AW Jones-5
6 Lydiate-6
7 Warburton (capt)-7
8 Faletau-5

by rugbyman Sat 06 Aug 2011, 6:44 pm

Maestagmafia, why Armitage at 5? IMO 5 would be poor/ineffective, I watched him pretty carefully, yes he didnt get to much action, but did what was required of him and more. He was solid under high ball (though not tested too much), regularly hit the line at pace, made a very impressive break that led up to the Haskell try, and saved 1 (maybe 2 with that intercept) tries. Maybe I'm bias as an LI fan, but i honestly dont think the likes of Stoddard, North and Williams (3 better - really?) were any better trhan him.

Sorry that I've knocked your article a bit there, I know if I'd tried to do this I'd have ended up underrating the Welsh, I never really pay too much attention to opposition players

by bedfordwelsh Sat 06 Aug 2011, 6:54 pm

England:
15 Armitage-7 (Though he looked good in the loose)
14 Banahan-6 (Never given real chance to run at Shane)
13 Tuilagi-6 (Done what was expected but was poor defence for his try)
12 Flutey-4 (Was he on the field)
11 Cueto-5 (See above)
10 Wilkinson-8 (What he does he does b****y well)
9 Care-7
1 Corbisiero-6
2 Hartley-5
3 Stevens-7 (Stuffed James, surprisngly for me)
4 Shaw-8 ( How does he do it at 38)
5 Palmer-6
6 Croft-7
7 Moody (capt)-6
8 Haskell-6

Wales:

15 Stoddart-7 (Gutted for him simple as)
14 North-8 (Now first choice IMO)
13 Davies-5 (Poor for me today)
12 Roberts-7 (One of his better games of late)
11 Shane Williams-6 (Shane is Shane and will go to WC)
10 Priestland-8 (Excellent game given 10 minutes notice and Jones wouldn't have done better)
9 Phillips-6 (We still need quicker more effective ball)

1 James-5 (Poor and Jenkins now back in poll)
2 Bennett-6 (Kills me to say but most probably his best game, though thats not lot to go on)
3 Mitchell-5 (We need Adam back)
4 Davies-5 (Him and AWJ need a rocket - R Jones to start there next week)
5 AW Jones-5 (See above)
6 Lydiate-6 ( First choice and rightly so puts the ground work in)
7 Warburton (capt)-8 (Excellent game would even be tempted to leave captaincy with him regardless of Rees' fitness)
8 Faletau-5 (Not his time today but should go to NZ and his time will come Delve to start next week)

by Shifty Sat 06 Aug 2011, 6:57 pm

15 Armitage 8
Great skills on the back foot and almost made a try out of nothing.

14 Banahan 6
Out foxed by shane Williams and was grasping for air at one point, though was a beast with ball in hand and steam rolled Faletau. Pretty much what we expected. Wales were careful not to give him 1-1 situations with Shane Williams. Should be an outside centre. If Wales had got pairity then it could of been very messy for him. If Wales call in Jaones and Jenkins into the front row next week, Wales will equal England then Banahan could be shown up badly.

13 Tuilagi 6.5
If he was white skinned with the name John Smith, people wouldnt be making such a fuss over him. however he had a decent game, kept fairly quiet by Wales's centers who burst through him on several occasions. defensive displine and tackling needs to improve. Went high on players on far to many occasions.

12 Flutey 6
Used as a decoy to create space for Tuilagi and Banahan to have 1-1 situations. His role was to keep the Welsh back row tied up which he did. Had no space to work and that is no ones fault, he did his job.

11 Cueto 5
Tried hard in attack but badly out of position for North's first try and isn't the player he was a few season ago.

10 Wilkinson 8
Cool head, took good decisions for the drop goal. England were pressurising for ages near the end of the first half and went for the drop goal. Won the game for England.

9 Care 8
Very busy, tried very hard all over the field. Bossed his pack and took good options.

1 Corbisiero 7
got the upper hand in the scrum though tired in the second half, needs to get fitter.

2 Hartley 7
Good lineout game but didn't really notice him in the loose, lineouts went well and found his men.

3 Stevens 8
Didn't really show up in the loose much, but he smashed James in the scrum and set up Haskell's try with sheer power, shunting James into his hooker. It's fantastic that a boy can make a mistake but a man can come back and be so powerful. I'm pleased for him.

4 Shaw 8
Worked very hard, led the pack and was a huge bully. Typical English Lock forward, johnson would of enjoyed his game.

5 Palmer 6
Didn't really notice much about him to be honest. England were dominant in the tight exchanges so I assume Palmer was at the bottom of most rucks.

6 Croft 6
As above he didn't stand out for me.

7 Moody (capt)
Went off injured early.

8 Haskell 7
Seemed to make a meal of the try and was very happy when he scored. but Stevens did the hard work. Didn't really notice him do to much else.

Replacements:
Mears (for Hartley, 58)
Wilson (for Stevens, 58, Stevens 71 for Corbisiero)
Botha (for Shaw, 58)
Wood (for Moody, 61)
Wigglesworth (for Care, 58)
Hodgson (for Wilkinson, 76)
Sharples (for Tuilagi, 59).

Wales:

15 Stoddart 7
Tried to counter and make things happen, though is reckless and that will cost Wales dearly one day and the Welsh fans wont take pity on him for being stupid. Sad to see him injured though.

14 North 8
Took both tried well, looked for off loads and seemed to make the english panic every time he ran at them.

13 Davies 6
Pretty much cancelled himself out with the other English centres to be honest, quiet game.

12 Roberts 7
Tackled well, got over the gain line, and hit everything hard. He did his job.

11 Shane Williams 6
Took his try well, though made Welsh fans panic when he winded himself while scoring. Got frustrated at times which never really helps Wales though he got involved and tried to make things happen.

10 Priestland 7
Came in 5 minutes before kick off and did very well, got the backs moving and took good options. Clearly England weren't going to target Stephen Jones and kept the same tactics for Priestland. showed the Welsh fans that Wales have options after the World Cup when Jones retires.

9 Phillips 7
Was aggressive, tackled everything. Was brave by taking the kicking pressure off Preistland while under pressure and played a lot better than he has for a while. Well done to him. People have criticised him for the last 20 minutes of the first half, but what can he do on the back foot? Well he tackled his heart out and took no shít from the English which is a good start.

1 James 7
Good in the loose but badly under pressure in the scrum, James needs to do a lot better than this to be honest. He has stood in for Jenkins for a few seasons now and he has never been minced this badly before.

2 Bennett 8
I've called Bennett everything under the sun in the build up to the game and was sure he;d balls the lineouts up and give penalties away. However he was everywhere today, making tackles, getting turnovers, he really fronted up and did brilliantly in the lineouts. Though if he plays like cack next week then todays effort will be for nothing.

3 Mitchell 6
Tried hard around the field, wasn't really beaten too badly in the scrum as it was James who was struggling and making things bad there.

4 Davies 6
Quiet game though did try and put himself about. He was up against a bigger meaner pack and couldn't really establish himself. Though never stopped trying.

5 AW Jones 6
Quiet game, took his lineouts but didn;t see much of him.

6 Lydiate 6
Out muscled in the back row but worked hard all over the field.

7 Warburton (capt) 8
Captains performance, nearly scored. Wales should be happy they appears to have a guy who could be as world class as Martyn Williams was!

8 Faletau 7
Stands out a mile with that hair cut, and is mobile in the loose. Needs to get stronger though. but he;s still young and looks very, very promising.

Replacements:

Scott Williams (for Stoddart, 48) 6
Showed vision and tried to make things happen, sadly none of the Welsh backs were smart enough to foresee that flat pass which went into touch, should of been a try for Wales there. It made Williams look silly, but really if any of the backs were capable of seeing the possibilities then Wales would of scored, and Welsh fans would be slobbering all over his vision.

Knoyle (for Phillips, 61) 7
Screamed at his forwards to get them organised and marshalled them very well. Injected pace into the game as England tired badly towards the end.

R Jones (for Faletau, 55) 6
Offered leadership and experiance but I think Faletau has overtaken him now, though he is an excellent bench player.

Charteris (for AW Jones, 65) 6
Took the lineouts well, but held the ball in the air like a muppet and had it snatched it off him on the English try line, luckily Wales recovered and got themselves into exactly the same position moments later.

Burns (for Bennett, 65)
Bevington (for James, 65)

by bedfordwelsh Sat 06 Aug 2011, 7:09 pm

Alyn,

Phillips did have one of his better games but we still need quicker ball.

Will be interesting to see if Peel is involved next week at all or whether he sticks with Williams and Knoyle.

by Shifty Sat 06 Aug 2011, 7:18 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Alyn,

Phillips did have one of his better games but we still need quicker ball.

Will be interesting to see if Peel is involved next week at all or whether he sticks with Williams and Knoyle.

I agree he does need to be quicker. I did notice that if a player from the other team lies on the wrong side, Phillips has a tendency to point it out to the referee, even if the ball is there available to him. You only realy get the penalty if the player is blocking the ball or killing it.
He'd be better off shutting up and getting the ball out, and he can spend to much time assessing his options before passing. But this was a game where Wales were going to be put under pressure and bullied and frankly Peel or Knoyle wouldn't of stood up in the way Phillips did today. Knoyle came on at the right time when England were tiring, so quicker ball was available for the backs. I did say I would prefer Knoyle to start last night on the other thread, but Phillips did well today all things considered. Gatland is clearly sticking with Phillips because the world Cup pool is going to be vicious and we will need tough, hard , nasty men on the field and Phillips is those things.
He needs to learn he's a fundamentally unlikable person though and not ask for charity from referees, even when he's scapping with several opposition players, his team mates tend to leave him on his own which tells you everything really.

by robbo277 Sat 06 Aug 2011, 8:18 pm

AlynDavies wrote:3 Stevens 8
It's fantastic that a boy can make a mistake but a man can come back and be so powerful. I'm pleased for him.

100% agree with this point, and couldn't have made it better myself.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 06 Aug 2011, 8:41 pm

robbo277 wrote:
AlynDavies wrote:3 Stevens 8
It's fantastic that a boy can make a mistake but a man can come back and be so powerful. I'm pleased for him.

100% agree with this point, and couldn't have made it better myself.

+1

by wales606 Sat 06 Aug 2011, 8:54 pm

Wales:

15 Stoddart - 8
Confident and attacking minded fullback - Should be 1st choice now, if it wasnt for his injury.

14 North - 7
Still some errors, but took his tries well and ran at the english defence.

13 Davies - 6
Nothing brilliant

12 Roberts - 9
Best game for Wales for ages. Dummy running, hitting holes and our best defender.

11 Shane Williams - 6
Still rusty, no magic.

10 Priestland - 8
Excellent attackminded flyhalf, very composed for a first start at FH.

9 Phillips - 8
One of his best games for Wales since the Lions, still slow service, but it is improving and he did well protecting Preistland.

1 James - 6
Not as powerful in the scrum as hoped, perhaps thats Lydiate's fault.

2 Bennett - 7
Good in the loose, not awful in the lineout.

3 Mitchell - 6
Did well in Jones's absence, but not the same standard.

4 Davies - 6
Nothing brilliant

5 AW Jones - 6
Nothing brilliant

6 Lydiate - 6
Some poor decision, but, made some good tackles/turnovers

7 Warburton (capt) - 7
Good game, but he isnt doing enough to win turnovers or secure possession

8 Faletau - 5
Poor game, I would prefer Delve to play next week.

16. Burns - 5
17. Bevington - 6
18. Charteris - 5
19. R Jones - 6
20. Knoyle - 8
21. Scott Williams - 5

by Thomond Sat 06 Aug 2011, 8:56 pm

Haven't seen the highlights yet but how did the Welsh backline do? Over the past year,they haven't really had many creative moves(I think many will agree Howley is responsible for a lot of this) and rely on a spark from one or two players to make something happen. How did they look today?

by Shifty Sat 06 Aug 2011, 9:09 pm

Thomond wrote:Haven't seen the highlights yet but how did the Welsh backline do? Over the past year,they haven't really had many creative moves(I think many will agree Howley is responsible for a lot of this) and really on a spark from one or two players to make something happen. How did they look today?

Phillips tried to be quicker, and got stuck in.
Priestland was very expansive, and got the backs going, it caught England off guard all game.
Roberts made dummy runs, got over the gain line, and tackled hard.
Davies was fairly quiet to be honest but cancelled himself out against Tug.
Shane looked rusty, but did get a few runs, though did seem frustrated at times, and him whinging at far younger Welsh backs doesn't really help. He was the elder statesman and sometimes needs to realise it's a 15 man game not the Shane Williams show. We all love Shane Williams, but I did notice his pace off the mark wasn't quite what were used to, we will learn more over the next two games.
North was outstanding, England paniced when he ran at them, he held players up, knocked them over and off loaded well.
Stoddard looked good in attack, however he was reckless also and is going to come a cropper one day.

Knoyle came on and bollucked his pack and got them in shape, and added pace to the Welsh game. He did well.
Scott Williams came on and showed nice touches, though one pass went straight into touch which looked terrible, but that was down to J.Davies not having the vision to see the gap Williams was trying to put him into while near the English try line.

by Thomond Sat 06 Aug 2011, 9:26 pm

Thanks Alyn,some positives for Wales to be taken out of the game have to catch it on the red button over the next few days.

by glamorganalun Sat 06 Aug 2011, 11:11 pm

Nice to see the Wales subs making a big impact, more so than England's subs.

I believe Ryan Jones should have started at 8 if we wanted to win that game, he showed control at the back of the scrum cleaning up slow ball, his passing was good, seems to catch all the high ball without dropping and he plays heads up rugby all lacking with the Wales starting 8. I felt we got on top in the forwards possibly with R Jones introduction and Shaw starting run out of steam. I thought Bevington, Birns and Knoyle were big plus's off the bench but not sure about Charteris.

The difference between the teams, England played like a test match taking a penalty and two drop goal and Wales worked on their attacking play, taking no penalties or drop goals. I don't blame England as they were under pressure for the win which will apply to Wales next week hence England may follow Wales but I doubt it.

My worst fears happened much earlier than I had feared i.e., no full back with Stoddart and Bryne injured and no game time for the flyhalf with S Jones and Hook injured. Preistland should have had gametime before today, for this reason and how well Preistland played he deserved the MOM award rather than a highly experienced 10 that did not make a break and as hardly got the backs going (I am not saying he was poor far from it).

I enjoyed the game but how many forward passes and knock on's did England get away with, Wilkinson knock on and two England players in front of him to claim the ball "play on", Shane just about keeping his head on his shoulders in front of two officials but the line judge did not miss Shane put his foot in touch, Phillips squint feed when all the feeds were squint and G North appeared to knock the ball backwards he gets pinged for knock on! What do the neutrals make of the officials today?

Hope for another good game next week, this was a good workout for both teams, the game 4 years ago fielding a weak team sold England short (and Wales). I am not a great fan of Gatland and his coaches but well done a big improvement but we need to win next week.

by wales606 Sat 06 Aug 2011, 11:31 pm

glamorganalun wrote:
I enjoyed the game but how many forward passes and knock on's did England get away with, Wilkinson knock on and two England players in front of him to claim the ball "play on", Shane just about keeping his head on his shoulders in front of two officials but the line judge did not miss Shane put his foot in touch, Phillips squint feed when all the feeds were squint and G North appeared to knock the ball backwards he gets pinged for knock on! What do the neutrals make of the officials today?

I agree, the Ref made some poor decisions that favoured the home side - but tis always thus...thats why it is called home advantage (although that missed forward pass was ridiculous, was he reffing American Football?)

by lostinwales Sat 06 Aug 2011, 11:42 pm

maestegmafia wrote:England:
15 Armitage 5
14 Banahan 4
13 Tuilagi 7
12 Flutey 4
11 Cueto 3
10 Wilkinson 8
9 Care 5
1 Corbisiero 7
2 Hartley 7
3 Stevens 6
4 Shaw 5
5 Palmer 6
6 Croft 6
7 Moody (capt) 6
8 Haskell 8

Replacements:
Mears (for Hartley, 58) 5
Wilson (for Stevens, 58, Stevens 71 for Corbisiero) 4
Botha (for Shaw, 58) 5
Wood (for Moody, 61) 5
Wigglesworth (for Care, 58) 5
Hodgson (for Wilkinson, 76) 5
Sharples (for Tuilagi, 59) 4

Wales:

15 Stoddart 6
14 North 8
13 Davies 6
12 Roberts 7
11 Shane Williams 8
10 Priestland 8
9 Phillips 7
1 James 6
2 Bennett 8
3 Mitchell 6
4 Davies 5
5 AW Jones 5
6 Lydiate 8
7 Warburton (capt) 8
8 Faletau 6

Replacements:

Burns (for Bennett, 65) 5
Bevington (for James, 65) 5
Charteris (for AW Jones, 65) 5
R Jones (for Faletau, 55) 6
Knoyle (for Phillips, 61) 9
Scott Williams (for Stoddart, 48) 5

Referee: S Walsh (ARU) 8-10 good performance, kept the game at an even temper

Given that the England marks are considerably less than the Welsh marks I would guess that the author expected a much bigger winning margin

by maestegmafia Sun 07 Aug 2011, 12:21 am

lostinwales wrote:

Given that the England marks are considerably less than the Welsh marks I would guess that the author expected a much bigger winning margin

Why don't you just post your thoughts on the players like everyone else and not on what people have already written mate...!

by Guest Sun 07 Aug 2011, 12:36 am

Wales:

15 Stoddart 7
14 North 8
13 Davies 5
12 Roberts 7
11 Shane Williams 6.5
10 Priestland 8
9 Phillips 7
1 James 6
2 Bennett 8
3 Mitchell 5
4 Davies 5
5 AW Jones 6
6 Lydiate 7
7 Warburton (capt) 8
8 Faletau 5

Gutted for Faletau, but he should get a chance behind our first choice front three (or at least the props). Shane (try aside) not good really, particularly in defence where apparently turning your back on an Englishman making a break is worth it. JD2 not good D on the whole and Bradley pretty quiet. I thought AWJ stood up more defensive wise anyway.

Why the Flip don't we counter ruck? I'd pick Brew in the backrow as at least he will do it (okay that's a joke, but he will at least smash a ruck). So many times we could've done it, but nothing doing.

Replacements:

Burns (for Bennett, 65) 6
Bevington (for James, 65) 5
Charteris (for AW Jones, 65) 5
R Jones (for Faletau, 55) 6
Knoyle (for Phillips, 61) 7
Scott Williams (for Stoddart, 48) 6

by lostinwales Sun 07 Aug 2011, 12:39 am

Well unfortunately the feed I was watching failed and I only just saw the highlights. Thats never enough but for England Stevens Shaw Armitage Haskell (I guess) looked good. Tuilagi's try was nice (nice pass from JW too) Wilkinson was Wilkinson. Banahan looked fast and dangerous. Cueto, flutey, croft all seemed quiet.

All in all it was a long way short of the best of the England displays of the last year. But you also see a lot of comments on Wales players doing very well, and of course they did score 3 tries to 2 - and they still lost. I have no idea who will do what next weekend (and for a change I actually have something better to do than watch it) but havnt seen anything to suggest that in the hypothetical situation that a 1st choice England played a 1st choice Wales right now(and both were on form) that Wales would have to do something very special to win.

Loved seeing Phillips get hammered by Stevens when he tried to jump over the ruck but generally he must have been getting some things right. Priestland looks good.

Given that there wasnt a lot in the scores I suppose you have to ask yourself which individuals out of the 'possibles' did enough to make a difference about who gets plane tickets - and you have to say Armitage (if he ever was a 'possible') priestland, Shaw and Tuilagi all did a lot. I cant really comment about the rest of the Welsh team but I am sure there are others

by nottins Sun 07 Aug 2011, 12:46 am

maestegmafia wrote:England:
15 Armitage 5
14 Banahan 4
13 Tuilagi 7
12 Flutey 4
11 Cueto 3
10 Wilkinson 8
9 Care 5
1 Corbisiero 7
2 Hartley 7
3 Stevens 6
4 Shaw 5
5 Palmer 6
6 Croft 6
7 Moody (capt) 6
8 Haskell 8

Replacements:
Mears (for Hartley, 58) 5
Wilson (for Stevens, 58, Stevens 71 for Corbisiero) 4
Botha (for Shaw, 58) 5
Wood (for Moody, 61) 5
Wigglesworth (for Care, 58) 5
Hodgson (for Wilkinson, 76) 5
Sharples (for Tuilagi, 59) 4

Wales:

15 Stoddart 6
14 North 8
13 Davies 6
12 Roberts 7
11 Shane Williams 8
10 Priestland 8
9 Phillips 7
1 James 6
2 Bennett 8
3 Mitchell 6
4 Davies 5
5 AW Jones 5
6 Lydiate 8
7 Warburton (capt) 8
8 Faletau 6

Replacements:

Burns (for Bennett, 65) 5
Bevington (for James, 65) 5
Charteris (for AW Jones, 65) 5
R Jones (for Faletau, 55) 6
Knoyle (for Phillips, 61) 9
Scott Williams (for Stoddart, 48) 5

Referee: S Walsh (ARU) 8-10 good performance, kept the game at an even temper

Not quite sure how anyone can give the losing sides players a higher combined score than the winnng side

by Guest Sun 07 Aug 2011, 1:07 am

nottins wrote:

Not quite sure how anyone can give the losing sides players a higher combined score than the winnng side

Because it's his opinion and he's entitled to it. I can bet the question will be asked what will your ratings be then. I can see the point of people disagreeing, but at least offer a differing opinion to him rating wise or something. That would at least be more conducive to a discussion.

by nottins Sun 07 Aug 2011, 1:16 am

Risca Rev wrote:

Because it's his opinion and he's entitled to it. I can bet the question will be asked what will your ratings be then. I can see the point of people disagreeing, but at least offer a differing opinion to him rating wise or something. That would at least be more conducive to a discussion.

I didn't see the game, only the highlights, so I won't be giving any scores. If I hadn't known the result of the game, then I would have assumed that from those player ratings that Wales had won the game.

by Countnefarious Sun 07 Aug 2011, 1:31 am

"I enjoyed the game but how many forward passes and knock on's did England get away with?"

One.

by doctor_grey Sun 07 Aug 2011, 1:39 am

Gents,
I didn't see any Rugby today. i was in the car all day driving on holiday. But reading the articles and reading your ratings, it seems Wales had more higher rated players. Is this an accurate reading of your points of view?
Was warburton really immense?
Was Simon Shaw turning the clock back?
Was Jonny the best out half option for England?
And is Priestland really the next 10 for Wales?

From anyone who saw the matches, can you fill me in? Stinks I can't get any replays here. What I really want to know if/how the NH teasms have some signs of life in the RWC.

Thanks mates........

by lostinwales Sun 07 Aug 2011, 11:06 am

Wales played well with a lot of first choices uping their game from recent performances and Priestland did very well being dumped at fly half at such short notice.

England played poorly with a lot of 2nd choices - looked static in attack a lot and made lots of handling errors.

I wonder who won......

by tomathy Sun 07 Aug 2011, 11:31 am

maestegmafia wrote:England:
14 Banahan 4

Hodgson (for Wilkinson, 76) 5
Sharples (for Tuilagi, 59) 4

What did Banahan do so badly that deserved a 4? I thought he had a really good game.

Hodgson was on for so little time that you may as well have not given him a rating.

Sharples made one sharp looking run and got the pass away. Can't just give people bad ratings because they weren't on for long enough to get a chance.

by nganboy Sun 07 Aug 2011, 12:08 pm

doctor_grey wrote:Gents,
I didn't see any Rugby today. i was in the car all day driving on holiday. But reading the articles and reading your ratings, it seems Wales had more higher rated players. Is this an accurate reading of your points of view?
Was warburton really immense?
Was Simon Shaw turning the clock back?
Was Jonny the best out half option for England?
And is Priestland really the next 10 for Wales?

From anyone who saw the matches, can you fill me in? Stinks I can't get any replays here. What I really want to know if/how the NH teasms have some signs of life in the RWC.

Thanks mates........

I think you might want to revisit your planning there mate. Good holiday = driving or = watching rugby?

by doctor_grey Sun 07 Aug 2011, 12:23 pm

OK, now I am at a nice warm beach for two weeks. The planning for the holiday comes from my wife who has no true sense for the important things in life (ie. Rugby). But next weekend, is MINE!

by The_Hound_of_Harrow Sun 07 Aug 2011, 12:32 pm

So that's a combined England score of 87 to Wales 102. One passage of play in the first half apart, Wales were only in the game in the last 20. Very red tinted specs on for those rankings.

by Knackeredknees Sun 07 Aug 2011, 12:33 pm

glamorganalun wrote:I enjoyed the game but how many forward passes and knock on's did England get away with, Wilkinson knock on and two England players in front of him to claim the ball "play on", Shane just about keeping his head on his shoulders in front of two officials but the line judge did not miss Shane put his foot in touch, Phillips squint feed when all the feeds were squint and G North appeared to knock the ball backwards he gets pinged for knock on! What do the neutrals make of the officials today?

Less than Wales got away with overall. players in at the side and blocking being the most common one's. If you watched the replays shane was hit on the upperarm and then shane raised his arm and the tacklers arm then slid up. Also how did Travis Knowle get a way with two dummy passes from the base of rucks right infront of Mr unbiased walsh? I will agree on the North knock on though.

by Seagultaf Sun 07 Aug 2011, 3:30 pm

Knackeredknees

It's not illegal to dummy from the base of a ruck, it is only illegal to dummy from the base of the scrum. It's in the Laws of the game!

by nottins Sun 07 Aug 2011, 4:02 pm

The_Hound_of_Harrow wrote:So that's a combined England score of 87 to Wales 102. One passage of play in the first half apart, Wales were only in the game in the last 20. Very red tinted specs on for those rankings.

I said the same earlier, but your elocution is slightly better than mine.

by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Aug 2011, 4:07 pm

Knackeredknees wrote:
glamorganalun wrote:I enjoyed the game but how many forward passes and knock on's did England get away with, Wilkinson knock on and two England players in front of him to claim the ball "play on", Shane just about keeping his head on his shoulders in front of two officials but the line judge did not miss Shane put his foot in touch, Phillips squint feed when all the feeds were squint and G North appeared to knock the ball backwards he gets pinged for knock on! What do the neutrals make of the officials today?

Less than Wales got away with overall. players in at the side and blocking being the most common one's. If you watched the replays shane was hit on the upperarm and then shane raised his arm and the tacklers arm then slid up. Also how did Travis Knowle get a way with two dummy passes from the base of rucks right infront of Mr unbiased walsh? I will agree on the North knock on though.

Travis Knowle!!.......is he the famous cousin of Travis Perkins !!!! Luuuuuurve it fellar
Ahem well it was in the ruck .................you do know you can dummy from anywhere apart from the scrum!!!
Tuilagi actually caught the wee man on the neck initially, I have seem many given for less

by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Aug 2011, 4:14 pm

maestegmafia wrote:England:
15 Armitage 8
14 Banahan 6
13 Tuilagi 8
12 Flutey6
11 Cueto 7
10 Wilkinson 9 MOM
9 Care 8
1 Corbisiero 7
2 Hartley 6
3 Stevens 8
4 Shaw 6
5 Palmer 7
6 Croft 6
7 Moody (capt) 7
8 Haskell 7

Replacements:
Mears (for Hartley, 58) 7
Wilson (for Stevens, 58, Stevens 71 for Corbisiero) 7 7
Botha (for Shaw, 58) 6
Wood (for Moody, 61) 7
Wigglesworth (for Care, 58) 7
Hodgson (for Wilkinson, 76) 7
Sharples (for Tuilagi, 59). 7

Wales:

15 Stoddart 8
14 North 8
13 Davies 7
12 Roberts 9
11 Shane Williams 7
10 Priestland 8
9 Phillips 8
1 James 5
2 Bennett 8
3 Mitchell 5
4 Davies 6
5 AW Jones 5
6 Lydiate 6
7 Warburton (capt) 8
8 Faletau 6

Replacements:

Burns (for Bennett, 65) 6
Bevington (for James, 65) 6
Charteris (for AW Jones, 65) 7
R Jones (for Faletau, 55) 8
Knoyle (for Phillips, 61) 8
Scott Williams (for Stoddart, 48) 7

Referee: S Walsh (ARU)

by Cymroglan Sun 07 Aug 2011, 4:16 pm

I was there and the only difference between the two teams was JW's boot player ratings rate individual players not the teams performance.
Wales scored three tries in a match that lasts 80 min but ended up losing due to the individual skill of the man who deserved to be man of the match.

by Shifty Sun 07 Aug 2011, 4:18 pm

I'm Welsh but in truth I think the disparity for the reason in the rating is simply because Wilkinson apart, England offered nothing. Their only tactic seemed to be to smash the ball into the Welsh players via big men.
Bash, recycle, bash, recycle, bash, recycle, bash.... etc.
They over powered the Welsh scrum and got a try, Wilkinson put Tug into some space for their second score. Apart from 1 moment of magic from Armitage taking the ball on the back foot and waltzing through Welsh players, England did nothing in 80 minutes.
Wales did try and throw it around and entertain and scored 3 good wingers tries, and got close on a number of occasions.

by Knackeredknees Sun 07 Aug 2011, 4:47 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
Knackeredknees wrote:
glamorganalun wrote:I enjoyed the game but how many forward passes and knock on's did England get away with, Wilkinson knock on and two England players in front of him to claim the ball "play on", Shane just about keeping his head on his shoulders in front of two officials but the line judge did not miss Shane put his foot in touch, Phillips squint feed when all the feeds were squint and G North appeared to knock the ball backwards he gets pinged for knock on! What do the neutrals make of the officials today?

Less than Wales got away with overall. players in at the side and blocking being the most common one's. If you watched the replays shane was hit on the upperarm and then shane raised his arm and the tacklers arm then slid up. Also how did Travis Knowle get a way with two dummy passes from the base of rucks right infront of Mr unbiased walsh? I will agree on the North knock on though.

by Seagultaf Today at 3:30 pm

.Knackeredknees

It's not illegal to dummy from the base of a ruck, it is only illegal to dummy from the base of the scrum. It's in the Laws of the game![/quote]

Travis Knowle!!.......is he the famous cousin of Travis Perkins !!!! Luuuuuurve it fellar
Ahem well it was in the ruck .................you do know you can dummy from anywhere apart from the scrum!!!
Tuilagi actually caught the wee man on the neck initially, I have seem many given for less[/quote]

I think you should have a look at the laws again refering to the ruck, it is a freekick offence to dummy from the back of a ruck!!

i looked this morning to check

by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Aug 2011, 5:03 pm

KK

You can't handle in the ruck full stop, so Travis "why does it always rain on me" Knowles couldn't have dummied it in the ruck

Assuming the ball came out to him then he could dummy a pass but he can't dummy a pass in a ruck as you can't use your hands to get it out.

by nottins Sun 07 Aug 2011, 5:09 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:KK

You can't handle in the ruck full stop, so Travis "why does it always rain on me" Knowles couldn't have dummied it in the ruck

Assuming the ball came out to him then he could dummy a pass but he can't dummy a pass in a ruck as you can't use your hands to get it out.

So, pretending to put your hands on the ball and making a pretend pass isn't dummying a pass ?

by Shifty Sun 07 Aug 2011, 5:31 pm

nottins wrote:So, pretending to put your hands on the ball and making a pretend pass isn't dummying a pass ?

There are ways of doing it, bending down and then standing up quick and pointing to a player to your side often causes players to come offside. You only have to see the way Stringer out foxed Ryan Jones and Jonathan Thomas in the Ospreys V Munster game in April, where Stringer did that and won the penalty to give Munster a last minute 20-22 win at the Liberty stadium.

by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Aug 2011, 5:47 pm

AlynDavies wrote:
nottins wrote:So, pretending to put your hands on the ball and making a pretend pass isn't dummying a pass ?

There are ways of doing it, bending down and then standing up quick and pointing to a player to your side often causes players to come offside. You only have to see the way Stringer out foxed Ryan Jones and Jonathan Thomas in the Ospreys V Munster game in April, where Stringer did that and won the penalty to give Munster a last minute 20-22 win at the Liberty stadium.

Nottins, is all semantics, rugby like sport or anything in life is all about interpretation....................... if you watched the game (did you?) you would have been able to make to make an assessment of whether Travis did infringe, personally I thought the ball was outside of the ruck on the only occasion i could see when it happened, for the life of me i couldn't see another instance KK was talking about.

by nottins Sun 07 Aug 2011, 5:50 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
AlynDavies wrote:
nottins wrote:So, pretending to put your hands on the ball and making a pretend pass isn't dummying a pass ?

There are ways of doing it, bending down and then standing up quick and pointing to a player to your side often causes players to come offside. You only have to see the way Stringer out foxed Ryan Jones and Jonathan Thomas in the Ospreys V Munster game in April, where Stringer did that and won the penalty to give Munster a last minute 20-22 win at the Liberty stadium.

Nottins, is all semantics, rugby like sport or anything in life is all about interpretation....................... if you watched the game (did you?) you would have been able to make to make an assessment of whether Travis did infringe, personally I thought the ball was outside of the ruck on the only occasion i could see when it happened, for the life of me i couldn't see another instance KK was talking about.

Who are you replying to ? I just gave an example of how you dummy a pass as you said it can't be done as you can't put your hands on the ball in a ruck.

by maestegmafia Sun 07 Aug 2011, 5:50 pm

nottins wrote:

Not quite sure how anyone can give the losing sides players a higher combined score than the winnng side

Why don't you post your own scores on the players like everyone else does.

I have given my opinion, now lets see you mark the players out of ten and we can read what you offer.

by Knackeredknees Sun 07 Aug 2011, 5:52 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:KK

You can't handle in the ruck full stop, so Travis "why does it always rain on me" Knowles couldn't have dummied it in the ruck

Assuming the ball came out to him then he could dummy a pass but he can't dummy a pass in a ruck as you can't use your hands to get it out.

Fhf
extract from the laws 16.4(f)

A player must not take any action to make the opposing team think that the ball is out of
the ruck while it is still in the ruck.
Sanction: Free Kick

So dummying a pass from the base of a ruck is against the laws of the game.
So if you dummy a pass when the balls out their is no offside as the ball is out of the ruck, as in the firstcase the ball was still within the lastfoot it should have been a freekick to England.
The second was very near the end of the game, dummy pass while ball still in ruck and the England defender on the blindside rushed up and was pinged for offside, penalty Wales

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