England 23-19 Wales Players ranking out of ten

First topic message reminder :

England:
15 Armitage
14 Banahan
13 Tuilagi
12 Flutey
11 Cueto
10 Wilkinson
9 Care
1 Corbisiero
2 Hartley
3 Stevens
4 Shaw
5 Palmer
6 Croft
7 Moody (capt)
8 Haskell

Replacements:
Mears (for Hartley, 58)
Wilson (for Stevens, 58, Stevens 71 for Corbisiero)
Botha (for Shaw, 58)
Wood (for Moody, 61)
Wigglesworth (for Care, 58)
Hodgson (for Wilkinson, 76)
Sharples (for Tuilagi, 59).



Wales:

15 Stoddart
14 North
13 Davies
12 Roberts
11 Shane Williams
10 Priestland
9 Phillips
1 James
2 Bennett
3 Mitchell
4 Davies
5 AW Jones
6 Lydiate
7 Warburton (capt)
8 Faletau

Replacements:

Burns (for Bennett, 65)
Bevington (for James, 65)
Charteris (for AW Jones, 65)
R Jones (for Faletau, 55)
Knoyle (for Phillips, 61)
Scott Williams (for Stoddart, 48)

Referee: S Walsh (ARU)

The_Hound_of_Harrow wrote:So that's a combined England score of 87 to Wales 102. One passage of play in the first half apart, Wales were only in the game in the last 20. Very red tinted specs on for those rankings.

HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE TOLD...

POST YOUR OWN PLAYER RANKINGS I COULDN'T GIVE A MONKEYS WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT MY OPINION and I really do not care what you think about me.

I was at the game, that is what I thought of it.

maestegmafia wrote:

nottins wrote:

Not quite sure how anyone can give the losing sides players a higher combined score than the winnng side

Why don't you post your own scores on the players like everyone else does.

I have given my opinion, now lets see you mark the players out of ten and we can read what you offer.

I think you'll find that not everyone else has given their own scores.

As I said earlier, I didn't see the full game, so I can't give scores to players, not that I ever would, but I can comment on what I think of your opinion. Which is, as said, "Very red tinted specs on for those rankings."

nottins wrote:
As I said earlier, I didn't see the full game, so I can't give scores to players, not that I ever would, but I can comment on what I think of your opinion. Which is, as said, "Very red tinted specs on for those rankings."

Which also makes your opinion rather in valid. As you didn't see the game.

I'll stand by and agree with what Hound said. Thanks.

Knackeredknees wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:KK

You can't handle in the ruck full stop, so Travis "why does it always rain on me" Knowles couldn't have dummied it in the ruck

Assuming the ball came out to him then he could dummy a pass but he can't dummy a pass in a ruck as you can't use your hands to get it out.

Fhf
extract from the laws 16.4(f)

A player must not take any action to make the opposing team think that the ball is out of
the ruck while it is still in the ruck.
Sanction: Free Kick

So dummying a pass from the base of a ruck is against the laws of the game.
So if you dummy a pass when the balls out their is no offside as the ball is out of the ruck, as in the firstcase the ball was still within the lastfoot it should have been a freekick to England.
The second was very near the end of the game, dummy pass while ball still in ruck and the England defender on the blindside rushed up and was pinged for offside, penalty Wales

KK
I understand the law quite well, no need to cut and paste. Simple you can't handle in the ruck its what I said ages ago!!!

As I said anybody in life will push the essence of the laws, as in the case of Traffic Travis McKnowle yesterday ........... the only occasion I saw, the ball was outside the ruck, hence the ref was right not to penalise him

But I will try to watch the game again KK, and you could well be right

maestegmafia wrote:England:
15 Armitage 5
14 Banahan 4
13 Tuilagi 7
12 Flutey 4
11 Cueto 3
10 Wilkinson 8
9 Care 5
1 Corbisiero 7
2 Hartley 7
3 Stevens 6
4 Shaw 5
5 Palmer 6
6 Croft 6
7 Moody (capt) 6
8 Haskell 8

Replacements:
Mears (for Hartley, 58) 5
Wilson (for Stevens, 58, Stevens 71 for Corbisiero) 4
Botha (for Shaw, 58) 5
Wood (for Moody, 61) 5
Wigglesworth (for Care, 58) 5
Hodgson (for Wilkinson, 76) 5
Sharples (for Tuilagi, 59) 4



Wales:

15 Stoddart 6
14 North 8
13 Davies 6
12 Roberts 7
11 Shane Williams 8
10 Priestland 8
9 Phillips 7
1 James 6
2 Bennett 8
3 Mitchell 6
4 Davies 5
5 AW Jones 5
6 Lydiate 8
7 Warburton (capt) 8
8 Faletau 6

Replacements:

Burns (for Bennett, 65) 5
Bevington (for James, 65) 5
Charteris (for AW Jones, 65) 5
R Jones (for Faletau, 55) 6
Knoyle (for Phillips, 61) 9
Scott Williams (for Stoddart, 48) 5

Referee: S Walsh (ARU) 8-10 good performance, kept the game at an even temper

LOL
Are you Tavis Barker Moons Agent or Partner ?
Giving the kid 9 !
You made him the best player on the pitch.
Classic!
Lack of rugby knowledge showing again im afraid

flyhalffactory wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:KK

You can't handle in the ruck full stop, so Travis "why does it always rain on me" Knowles couldn't have dummied it in the ruck

Assuming the ball came out to him then he could dummy a pass but he can't dummy a pass in a ruck as you can't use your hands to get it out.

Fhf
extract from the laws 16.4(f)

A player must not take any action to make the opposing team think that the ball is out of
the ruck while it is still in the ruck.
Sanction: Free Kick

So dummying a pass from the base of a ruck is against the laws of the game.
So if you dummy a pass when the balls out their is no offside as the ball is out of the ruck, as in the firstcase the ball was still within the lastfoot it should have been a freekick to England.
The second was very near the end of the game, dummy pass while ball still in ruck and the England defender on the blindside rushed up and was pinged for offside, penalty Wales

KK
I understand the law quite well, no need to cut and paste. Simple you can't handle in the ruck its what I said ages ago!!!

As I said anybody in life will push the essence of the laws, as in the case of Traffic Travis McKnowle yesterday ........... the only occasion I saw, the ball was outside the ruck, hence the ref was right not to penalise him

But I will try to watch the game again KK, and you could well be right

In the first one near Englands line he didnt have the ball in his hands so was not handleing in the ruck. it was just while the ball was at the base of the ruck Travis (grassy)Knoyle threw both arms in a passing motion without the ball, feining the ball was out of the ruck.

I'm old enough to remember playing when you could dummy from a ruck, it was a nightmare being backrow as you always had to hold that extra half second to make sure before you moved

maesteg, take a chill pill fella (and no need to yell!). With those marks I'm guessing you were only watching your team. And only then, marked them on a very good performance in the last 20 minutes after the game broke up and substitutions disrupted the flow.

We move on, and both teams should have shaken off the rigours of what has been some intensive training for the rerun in Cardiff.

Here's to another intriguing match.

Dog

Can I have a Chill Pill as well please, can't bleeding sleep

Knackeredknees wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:KK

You can't handle in the ruck full stop, so Travis "why does it always rain on me" Knowles couldn't have dummied it in the ruck

Assuming the ball came out to him then he could dummy a pass but he can't dummy a pass in a ruck as you can't use your hands to get it out.

Fhf
extract from the laws 16.4(f)

A player must not take any action to make the opposing team think that the ball is out of
the ruck while it is still in the ruck.
Sanction: Free Kick

So dummying a pass from the base of a ruck is against the laws of the game.
So if you dummy a pass when the balls out their is no offside as the ball is out of the ruck, as in the firstcase the ball was still within the lastfoot it should have been a freekick to England.
The second was very near the end of the game, dummy pass while ball still in ruck and the England defender on the blindside rushed up and was pinged for offside, penalty Wales

KK
I understand the law quite well, no need to cut and paste. Simple you can't handle in the ruck its what I said ages ago!!!

As I said anybody in life will push the essence of the laws, as in the case of Traffic Travis McKnowle yesterday ........... the only occasion I saw, the ball was outside the ruck, hence the ref was right not to penalise him

But I will try to watch the game again KK, and you could well be right

In the first one near Englands line he didnt have the ball in his hands so was not handleing in the ruck. it was just while the ball was at the base of the ruck Travis (grassy)Knoyle threw both arms in a passing motion without the ball, feining the ball was out of the ruck.

I'm old enough to remember playing when you could dummy from a ruck, it was a nightmare being backrow as you always had to hold that extra half second to make sure before you moved

Me too KK, I those days of old ........... in fact I remember when the ball was made out of sheeps bladder, and you had to have a twirling moustache before you were allowed to play

maestegmafia wrote:

nottins wrote:
As I said earlier, I didn't see the full game, so I can't give scores to players, not that I ever would, but I can comment on what I think of your opinion. Which is, as said, "Very red tinted specs on for those rankings."

Which also makes your opinion rather in valid. As you didn't see the game.

Nottins
You do realise you can be the better team and still lose the game mind............... it has happened before !!

fhf, sure (frantically hunting for said medication)

Wales are in pretty good shape from what I saw, given the training regimes the teams have gone through . i.e. no 'tapering down' time. If you started games like you finish them, then we're in trouble next weekend.

My ratings for England.


England:
15 Armitage 7
14 Banahan 6
13 Tuilagi 6
12 Flutey 4
11 Cueto 5
10 Wilkinson 8
9 Care 5
1 Corbisiero 6
2 Hartley 6
3 Stevens 7
4 Shaw 7
5 Palmer 5
6 Croft 6
7 Moody (capt) 5
8 Haskell 6


MOM was definitely Wilkinson.

Stevens and Shaw were the best forwards in my opinion.

Armitage was the 2nd best back.

I was wrong about Armitage and Shaw, they had decent games. Flutey was woeful though in my opinion.


Maestegmafia how can you give James as high a rating as Stevens?

RE: Dummies from the ruck

Woodward mentioned it in his autobiography, he fell for it either on his International début or in one of his early games against Wales from a scrum (I think) and gave away a penalty that lost the match. He also mentioned that it was now illegal. I saw Knoyle do it as well once in this game, down by the England line.

I think Wigglesworth did something similar, but rather than dummying the pass he just put both hands flat on the ground quickly and then sprung up. I think he was hoping the quick motion would draw Wales into thinking he was springing up with the ball, but letter of the law would suggest that is illegal too: "A player must not take any action to make the opposing team think that the ball is out of the ruck while it is still in the ruck." I guess it's just a line all 9s will push until someone gets pinged for it.

England:
15 Armitage 6 - solid under the high ball, nice break, kicked well but stepped in rather than marking his man for the first try.
14 Banahan 5 - couple of good runs on the wing, needed to come into the midfield to give options, anonymous at centre
13 Tuilagi 7 - couple of rookie errors but made ground with ball in hand and did pretty well in defence a solid debut
12 Flutey 6 - offered a passing and carrying option, solid in defence but lacked a little of his old sparkle
11 Cueto 6 - solid with a nice run or two but needed to be more involved
10 Wilkinson 8 - made all the right decisions and was solid in all aspects of play - MOTM
9 Care 5 - great work rate in defence, but made wrong decisions and gave poor passes in attack
1 Corbisiero 4 - solid in scrum, only turned up in the loose to concede a penalty or two
2 Hartley 5 - anonymous, very uncharacteristic for Hartley
3 Stevens 8 - close to MOTM, solid in the scrum, managed to wheel it for Haskell's try and had a great work rate in attack and defence
4 Shaw 7 - great work rate that showed he was in top shape, couple of handling errors but otherwise an impressive showing
5 Palmer 6 - efficient but a little quiet
6 Croft 6 - did all the hard work his detractors say he doesn't do, needed to get onto the ball in attack more
7 Moody (capt) 6 - Mr 110% threw himself at everything and covered every blade of grass but looked rather rusty and will need more game time pre RWC, injury is a concern
8 Haskell 6 - carried well but still lacks that savvy presence at the breakdown, solid performance

Replacements:
Mears (for Hartley, 58) 5 - didn't offer much
Wilson (for Stevens, 58, Stevens 71 for Corbisiero) 6 - good effort in the loose, solid in the scrum (for about the 1 he was involved in)
Botha (for Shaw, 58) 2 - offered nothing, the lack of Shaw was noticeable in the latter part of the game
Wood (for Moody, 61) 6 - busy performance including a try saving tackle, needs to be more influential at the breakdown
Wigglesworth (for Care, 58) 7 - excellent range of kicking and passing on display, controlled the game very well when he came on
Hodgson (for Wilkinson, 76) - not enough time on pitch
Sharples (for Tuilagi, 59) 5 - nice early break followed by nice kick chase and then just disappeared, promise in that performance but needs to start a game

Can't post the 'link' as the Sunday Times is now a subscription based web site. However, from memory the rankings were

Welsh Backs +3 (or 4) over the English Backs - even with Wilkinson's MOTM 8 points

English Forwards + 7 (or 8) over the Welsh Forwards - including a 4 point differential with Matt Stevens 8 Paul James 4

Think this was a pretty accurate reflection