England team for Saturday – Sheridan, Hape, Moody, Lawes and Youngs doubtful

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/aug/09/lewis-moody-england-world-cup

England face Wales in Cardiff on Saturday. Assuming the abovementioned players are out, who would you pick in the starting XV?

I'd be tempted to go with:

1 Stevens
2 Thompson
3 Cole
4 Deacon
5 Palmer
6 Croft
7 Wood
8 Easter

9 Care
10 Flood
11 Sharples
12 Banahan
13 Tindall
14 Ashton
15 Foden

I thought Care was very poor last week, but I'd like to give him another chance to start. I don't think Wigglesworth will ever really be good enough.

Flood needs a game, as do Tindall, Thompson, Easter, Deacon, Ashton and Foden. I think Croft could probably do with the game time – he's not played too much over the last year. Didn't fancy starting Botha alongside Deacon so Palmer gets another run-out too.

I'd also like to give Sharples another opportunity to impress and if Hape's going to be injured I'd like to see what Banahan can do starting at 12. I think he's a very underrated player and could be excellent in that position. Post-wc (and even in the WC) I'd like to see Banahan at 12 alongside Tuilagi at 13. Think that could be a great partnership.

That centre pairing of Banahan and Tindall fills me with dread, he (Banahan) vanished the minute he had to move to centre last week. I think he's a good winger, but you don't see Wales trying to play North at centre do you now?

I'd prefer Flutey and Tindall in the centres and Tuilagi on the bench.

I admit Banahan Tindall looks like it could be a bit ponderous! I just thought Banahan could do with a go in that position and Tindall needed a game. It can't be worse than Hape Tindall and we've done ok with that partnership, uninspiring as it is. Tuilagi can come off the bench!

Eustace if that's the case are Moody and Sheridan's places in the England squad guaranteed? Sheridan has done very little recently except for being injured.

Personally I would give another scrum half a start - either Wigglesworth or Simpson with the other on the bench.

I don't want to think about the centre problem. MJ has made sure of that.

Agree with the rest of your team Eustace. Sharples definitely needs to start in my opinion.

Have we tried Banahan and Tindall already? I have the feeling it has been used but can't remember. Agree Tins' needs game time but just can't stomach Banahan playing such an important position as 12.

When a while ago i stated that Tuilagi should play 12 i was shot down by posters due to his lack of vision and passing skills. But i've yet to see Banahan show any of these himself. We may as well play Manu there.

(ps I also said Manu should play there so he can run off the 10's shoulder in attack as that's our only viable play, what happens on Sat? He runs off the 10's shoulder and scores)

Agree with Beshocked, Sheridan hasn't done anything to get on that plane and we don't want to take injury doubts away to the WC.

Beshocked on a completely unrelated note who are Sarries playing in their pre season games?

When a while ago i stated that Tuilagi should play 12 i was shot down by posters due to his lack of vision and passing skills. But i've yet to see Banahan show any of these himself. We may as well play Manu there.

I'd say Banahan has actually shown he's got very good hands and good offloading skills, although I admit there might still be doubts about his ability to spread the play wide from 12. I also think he's got good vision. He did well last Saturday with some clever kicks in behind... I'll admit it, I'm just a Banahanafan. I think he's got huge potential. Don't know why people are so negative about him. For me he's an exciting player.

I agree if Sheridan's not fit he shouldn't be on the plane. We aren't as desperate for looseheads as we once were. Can't afford to be carrying a sicknote, especially one who's not played international rugby in ages.

Moody is a difficult one. He's captain. Wh would replace him? Tinidall? Not certain to start. Wilkinson? Ditto. Easter? Maybe, but he went missing in the 6N at times.

Toulon, Bedford, Esher and Connacht I think.

Who are Quins playing?

Is Lawes still injured ? If Banahan and Tindall are paired up you'll really need Ashton and Tuilagi to inject some much needed pace.

Shaw seemed to be permantly offside as he was so slow

Really looking forward to game, despite the loss and horrible injury last time I enjoyed it

Youngs didn't train at all yesterday. Lawes and Hape took part in the whole session though, so may be ahead of Youngs fitness-wise. Moody was there in a serious leg brace. Didn't see Sheridan at all

yappysnap - true, but he ran that line from 13, with Flutey running wide and taking a defender with him. had Manu been at 12 it would have been harder for him to not be picked up. Banahan's passing is also better than he's given credit for. can't say i've got much of an idea about how his 'vision' is though.

We have Castres, Esher, Nottingham and Ulster.

Eustace, you may be right about banahan and i may be being a bit unfair, but if he is going to play 12 i would like Tuilagi coming on at about 50 minutes to get some paice in to the centres.

As to the captain, i'd like MJ to pick the team and then the captain and if Moody doesn't make it then so be it. It'd probably be one of Wilkinson/Tindal or Easter, but i hope not Easter.

yappysnap wrote:We have Castres, Esher, Nottingham and Ulster.

Eustace, you may be right about banahan and i may be being a bit unfair, but if he is going to play 12 i would like Tuilagi coming on at about 50 minutes to get some paice in to the centres.

As to the captain, i'd like MJ to pick the team and then the captain and if Moody doesn't make it then so be it. It'd probably be one of Wilkinson/Tindal or Easter, but i hope not Easter.

or starting at 13

or starting at 13 OK

That's what I'd like to see eventually. I think post-WC we should work towards a backline of

Youngs
Flood
Sharples
Banahan
Tuilagi
Ashton
Foden

Looks pretty handy and has a nice balance to it. Twelvetrees to eventually challenge Bananaman for his 12 shirt.

Yappysnap sounds very similar warmup matches to ours. One Irish team,One French,Two championship sides.

Eustace Banahan at centre? seriously? No mention of Barritt or Allen? Just the overrated Twelvetrees?

Yea seems they all follow the same pattern, bit gutted that only the championship team matches are home games, might wander along to one though.

I'd hope next year to see a whole load of centres tried out over the various tours and 6N's.

Twelvetrees may be one for the future but can he really be picked when he isn't even first choice at Tigers? He should have moved to Quins...

Eustace Banahan at centre? seriously? No mention of Barritt or Allen? Just the overrated Twelvetrees?

I suppose Barritt deserves consideration – I like Allen but England just seem to play better with bigger centres to me. Twelvetrees isn't anywhere near ready yet, and maybe I'm a biased Leicester fan, but he just seems to have all the attributes we need – size and a great distribution game. Plus he kicks very well, as an added bonus. We'll see!

Eustace I am sure he is promising but I call him overrated because people tout Twelvetrees for England even though he is unproven in my opinion. Certainly at centre.

Beshocked, do you think Saracens may change their game plan a bit this season and Barritt will get a chance to show off more of his skillset?

As a guy who covered flyhalf when he was younger i'd like to see him step in at first reciever at times. Especially if you're playing Farrell at 10 as Barritt would offer a very different style.

Eustace I am sure he is promising but
I call him overrated because people tout Twelvetrees for England even
though he is unproven in my opinion. Certainly at centre.

No doubt he is unproven. I'm not saying he should start now. Just maybe in the future! I do think he's looked more a centre who can cover fly half than the other way round though.

I am not sure to be honest Yappysnap. Charlie Hodgson should give us a bit more impetus in attack. I think Barritt will be more effective once he is partnered with Adam Powell against in the centres. Last 6-7 games of the 2009-10 season showed that Saracens can attack if they want.

People have got excited about 12T because he has all the attributes to be a quality centre. He has a huge boot and when used effectively could add variety to a sometimes predictable England game plan. He is about 6ft 4 so is big enough to bosh it up when needed to. But is biggest asset is his passing skills his timing and execution of passing is superb.

If given time at tigers to play at 12 and mature he could be a very good player and a star for the 2015 RWC.

yappysnap wrote:Yea seems they all follow the same pattern, bit gutted that only the championship team matches are home games, might wander along to one though.

I'd hope next year to see a whole load of centres tried out over the various tours and 6N's.

Twelvetrees may be one for the future but can he really be picked when he isn't even first choice at Tigers? He should have moved to Quins...

was a move to quins ever on the cards? he's a very good player, but I don't think we'd have had room for another centre (that's unless he was being targeted before we signed hopper.

I'm fairly sure there were talks about him a while ago, to be honest though i don't think he would be our type to bring in.

when is the team actually announced any one?

Welsh team is Thursday so I reckon England will be the same

England used to announce 4 days before the game, but as of this year's six nations it has changed to 2 days before. Johnson has also said this week that it will be announced on thursday

Yup, I've heard that team will be announced tomorrow too.

I am surprised by those ommisions - Sherry, Lawes, Hape and Youngs could do with a run out.



Well, in the absence of those chaps - I would like to see a slightly stronger England side.
Cole
Tommo
Stevens
Palmer
Deacon
Croft
Fourie
Easter
Care
Flood
Monye
Flutey
Tindall
Ashton
Foden
Bench -
Robshaw, PDJ, Hartley, Haskell, Sharples, Tuilagi, Armitage

This side gives omissions from last week a run, plus some other combinations that can be tested.
I really want to see the back 3 combo of Monye-Ashton-Foden

I think it's too late for Banahan to be a 12 at the WC. He needs club time in that position, and if he gets that I think he will end up a 12. For this game I'd give Flutey another chance.

I think we have to take a look at a 7: I'm not bothered whether it is Robshaw or Fourie. Wood can start at 6 as Croft will be needed in the final warm up game. I also think we should start Botha and Sharples. Finally I might risk giving Wilson a start at LH.

Good point DaveM - agree about Banahan, hence me leaving him out. The Tindall-Flutey partnership has worked before, just needs a bit of time together.

Fair point about Croft. Wood is so similar that it wouldnt make much difference to that back row.

I had forgotten about Botha, he didnt really get long last saturday. Would have to take out Deacon though.

Cant have Deacon and Botha partnered together as they are very similar players. Having said that, Palmer probably needs a rest after a full 80mins last time out.

Yes, and MJ knows what he'll get with Deacon. If he's taking 4 locks it's between Shaw and Botha for the final slot. We had a look at Shaw last week, and he did pretty well (although I think it's very risky to take a lock who can't manage more than 50 minutes - what happens if one of the starting locks in the WC gets injured after 2 minutes and Shaw is on the bench?). Now we should look at Botha.

If Deacon needs to prove his fitness then I'd risk the unbalanced pairing of Deacon and Botha - it's only a warm up game after-all.

Fair enough - and, to be honest - if Adam Jones is back for Wales then the additional ballast of Deacon+Botha could be quite useful.

Botha should be in a familiar scrummaging position just behind Stevens too.

I would like Sharples to get a bit more gametime - although Monye does need a chance too.

Tindall to captain, as he was the incumbent before injury in the 6N.

Or perhaps it would be a good opo for Hartley to get some experience - also with other leaders around him in Tinds and Easter.

I forgot Monye. I'd expect him to start at 11. The question is, how does Sharples get enbough game time to play his way into the squad?

Well, the way I see it both are figting for 1 spot. And unless one is far out performing in training then they sould be given equal gametime (in an ideal world). Maybe Sharples to start this one and Ugo to appear off the bench. With Ugo starting in Ireland and Cueto coming off the bench.



To be fair to Cueto, he didnt look great last saturday and needs gametime too, considering that he was banned near the end of last season he is rather rusty.

propdavid_london wrote:Well, the way I see it both are figting for 1 spot. And unless one is far out performing in training then they sould be given equal gametime (in an ideal world). Maybe Sharples to start this one and Ugo to appear off the bench. With Ugo starting in Ireland and Cueto coming off the bench.



To be fair to Cueto, he didnt look great last saturday and needs gametime too, considering that he was banned near the end of last season he is rather rusty.

I'd prefer both Monye and Sharples going to the WC.

To me Cueto has been poor for a while now and as much as we all talk about him being safe and experienced, he looked neither on Sat. Foden and armitage are both more secure and Monye is experienced enough and has a kicking game.

Cueto is the weak link and if he does get another start he seriously needs to prove he should be on the plane, I WANT TRIES!

Morning Yappy, yes - Cueto did look out of sorts last saturday. And I agree, that Sharples (if he progresses) should be there with Monye.



A back 3 with Banahan and Cueto is just too slow for international rugby.

However, I cant see MJ leaving Cueto behind - there is that whole experience thing.

propdavid_london wrote:Morning Yappy, yes - Cueto did look out of sorts last saturday. And I agree, that Sharples (if he progresses) should be there with Monye.



A back 3 with Banahan and Cueto is just too slow for international rugby.

However, I cant see MJ leaving Cueto behind - there is that whole experience thing.

Experience of not scoring tries ?

No, fair comment Munkian - Cueto is an international winger with an exceptionally poor try scoring record. Considering it was his finishing that got him into the england setup way back in 2006'ish. But, on the flip side - scoring trys isnt all (if it was Tom Vardell would have many caps). Personally I would be much happier with a Monye, Sharples in my team (at the moment).

Cueto looked much sharper in the Nov internationals and summer tour last season - perhaps that enforced break at the end of the season has taken its toll.

Morning David, I'm not sure if he did look that much sharper though! All he was doing was catching kicks and runnign them back, but he didn't do that particularly well. look at any other countries players who return kicks then look at him. He's an oxygen thief! 19 international games on the trot without a try is horrific.

I agree with you experience is the only thing that's keeping him there but really?!

Monye or Sharples should take his place. Maybe actually having to work for the shirt will motivate him a bit.

I surpise myself with my apparently strong feelings on this...

Yappy - yup, however I find myself feeling more strongly against Banahan on the wing than Cueto (even though Matt has scored more trys).