England back row

Just checked the team, looks to be a much stronger line up and I do really really like the look of the backrow.
Some of the ahem senior members of the board will be thrilled by what looks to be a old school style backrow.
Wood - the grafter at six.
Fourie - Traditional openside. (As an aside am I the only one who finds it weird the bbc still refer to him as the only specialist openside in the squad, as Moody has started a game at six in god knows how many years?)
Easter - our big old slow number, making the hard yards.
I hope this backrow goes well, I expect Wood to have a big game. Have to feel sorry for Robshaw who should have at least made the bench instead of Haskell.
Thoughts?

Please don't get me started on Fourie....

Fourie is the most overrated player in the England squad bar Flutey and Hape.

It isn't a great backrow. Wood is a good choice. Easter is the best of a bad bunch. Is there a slower no 8 around in international rugby? The only saving grace is that he is better than any Welsh no 8 bar Delve. Doesn't say much though as their no 8s are worse than ours!

No one really rates Hape, I certainly don't. He does a job that fits our gameplan. But as an individual player I don't rate him.
Fourie has been impressive in his previous England caps, But I'd have rather seen what Wood and Robshaw could have done together.

What's the point in Fourie? He has about 3 caps and wont be round for long post WC.

Seems like a waste of a place.

Six caps I believe.

flankertye no one rates Hape? Why is he picked so many times? Is it simply MJ who loves him?

I don't remember Fourie looking impressive when he got the £"$% kicked out of him by his fellow countrymen. An overrated South African journeyman who none of the top clubs in England wanted in their side. He wouldn't get into the most South African friendly side in the AP side as a waterboy.

Yappysnap absolutely agree. Isn't he 31 as well? 32 in September

Exactly, there's afew too many oxygen theives in the whole squad and Fouries one of the worst (especially as he's blocking home grown talent like Robshaw).

I think beshocked means that Fourie is the England squad member least deserving of his place after Flutey and Hape.

What's the point of Fourie? Obviously he's seen as the second best open-side after Moody, and Moody is injured so there's a chance Fourie will go to the World Cup.

If Moody is injured we will probably go with two of Croft, Haskell and Wood, with the other on the bench, Easter at 8 and Fourie in the wider squad (we might take those 5 and Moody if Moody is touch and go). Fourie might be needed in some of the pool games, if there is another injury or if the balance just isn't working. Fourie is there for the here and now, not for a couple of years time, which is the right attitude to take.

Robshaw is an option (especially in the longer term) but he's also only got a couple of caps. He's also been in a lot of squads, so Johnson obviously rates him at AP level, but has doubts over his ability to make it at the very top level, at least at the moment.

beshocked wrote:
I don't remember Fourie looking impressive when he got the £"$% kicked out of him by his fellow countrymen.

But that just didn't happen.

I think Wood is second choice 7 behind Moody.

Fourie ( im not a fan either) is being given a final run out to see how he goes...

Also this flanker set up is much more like the WC winning team with two guys seen more as opensides who love scrapping for the ball

Maybe Johnno is looking at fixing the break down issues.

DaveM wrote:

beshocked wrote:
I don't remember Fourie looking impressive when he got the £"$% kicked out of him by his fellow countrymen.

But that just didn't happen.

By the way when I say fellow countrymen I mean South Africans. If you didn't get that bit.

Yes he did. To be fair he wasn't the only forward getting the £"$% kicked out of him. He was part of an "England" forward effort outmuscled and bullied. His supposed strength is physicality yet he got outmuscled and outgunned. If it's his strength you expect him to step up. Don't tell me the forwards weren't bullied and outmuscled. They were.

Yes Robbo.

So where does this leave Robshaw then?

I guess he just isnt rated by Johno or the selectors.

Obviously Wood, Moody, Croft, Haskell are seen as better...and Fourie is behind them.

Bring in possibly Saul and a few other youngsters next season into the mix....then he might not be in the mix at all. Strange one.

"He was part of an "England" forward effort outmuscled and bullied."

Well with the exception of Big Courtney...

Robshaw has to be way ahead of Saul, and with Haskell going abroad, and possibly Moody retiring, he could get his chance next season.

So where does this leave Robshaw then?.

At home with Quinns.

Exactly, there's afew too many oxygen theives in the whole squad and Fouries one of the worst (especially as he's blocking home grown talent like Robshaw)..

Surely we have a better version of Fourie in Steffon Armitage, I know he's sodding off to Brive but I'd rather have had him in the team. He's always threatened to look good in and England shirt and one more opportunity could have been worth a shot.

Sam,

S.Armitage didnt really get a chance at all did he.....

Tomathy
I would agree with Robshaw being ahead...but then i would have Robshaw ahead of Fourie aswell.

I just think, the fact he's pretty much on the outside now is gonna be a problem when the new batch of young pretenders (Saul included) come through.

Haskell going is an interesting one. He's just starting to show some form in an England shirt again.....

S.Armitage didnt really get a chance at all did he.....

Not enough of a chance to deem him not needed. I'd have liked to see him given one more go as he would have given us a younger and better ball carrying openside than Fourie.

Sam I agree about Steffon Armitage. Armitage is going to Brive?! I thought it was Toulon but maybe a change of plans?

Isn't it Shane Geraghty moving to Brive? They take all England's out of form players and does little with them.

I wouldn't want to move to Brive. They are one of the worst clubs in France.

Poor Robshaw. Will be become one of the nearly men or is his shot at an England shirt just around the corner?

Sam I agree about Steffon Armitage. Armitage is going to Brive?! I thought it was Toulon but maybe a change of plans?

Sorry, Toulon, you're quite right Beschocked.

Fourie has the support of Niel Back - If he thinks he is good enough then he most likely is.

England need a grafter in their ranks for when the opposition decides to bully them at the breakdown, a la - Ireland, SA - and yes, most likely Scotland and Argentina will adopt their usual style.

We need someone to slow down their ball and be a real dog.

I believe that role could be filled by Fourie, Robshaw or Steff Armitage.

Fourie appears to have MJ's confidence more.

Robshaw will likely be involved with England for a long time after the WC.

Armitage has ruled himself out of contention by Toulon move. Perhaps he will come back in a year or 2.

Propdavid london what have Neil Back and Martin Johnson got in common? Perhaps they played at a certain club together?

Hendre Fourie isn't the only one with decent flanker mentors. I can think of a certain young openside who has one of England's best flankers as his mentor. This flanker was always better than Neil Back too.

beshocked wrote:Propdavid london what have Neil Back and Martin Johnson got in common? Perhaps they played at a certain club together?

Hendre Fourie isn't the only one with decent flanker mentors. I can think of a certain young openside who has one of England's best flankers as his mentor. This flanker was always better than Neil Back too.

beshocked - No, not the only player with a decent flanker mentor. I only implied that he comes with pretty good references.

I am trying to think about who you are referring to - Andy Saull and Richard Hill?

Propdavid london what have Neil Back and Martin Johnson got in common? Perhaps they played at a certain club together?

There's more than a couple of clubs in the AP who have former Tigers players as coaches, most of whom played with Johnno.

Off the top of my head last season;
Sarries - Gustard
Saints - West
Leeds - had Back and Key
Tigers - Cockerill

I'm a big fan of Robshaw, Think he should have had a run out. That said, Haskell has been playing very well in his last few outings. Its a very difficult call to make.

I don't understand everyone's obsession with having an old style 7.

Personally I think from the recent rule changes to be effective at the break down, you need to hit the ruck with intensity and dynamism. Which when England have lost recently they haven't done.

I don't think that we struggle with slowing the ball down and our defence has been very solid. I am not disregarding the abilities of Pocock and Mccaw but I still think you can be effective without those type of players.

Am I missing something here?

beshocked wrote:
Yes he did. To be fair he wasn't the only forward getting the £"$% kicked out of him. He was part of an "England" forward effort outmuscled and bullied. His supposed strength is physicality yet he got outmuscled and outgunned. If it's his strength you expect him to step up. Don't tell me the forwards weren't bullied and outmuscled. They were.

SA were exceptionally physcial in that game, and England found it hard going but I thought Fourie did ok. Are you writing off Sheridan, Hartley, Cole, Lawes, Palmer, Moody, and Easter as well?