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Scotland squad naming thread

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21st Century Schizoid Man
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Post by RDW Mon 22 Aug - 9:03

At 11am today the Scotland squad will be named at the National Museum of Scotland - I am off work today so will keep track of it!

Squad has been announced:

Full-backs: Rory Lamont, Chris Paterson
Wings: Simon Danielli, Max Evans, Sean Lamont
Centres: Joe Ansbro, Nick De Luca, Graeme Morrison
Stand-offs: Ruaridh Jackson, Dan Parks
Scrum-halves: Mike Blair, Chris Cusiter, Rory Lawson
Props: Geoff Cross, Alasdair Dickinson, Allan Jacobsen, Moray Low, Euan Murray
Hookers: Ross Ford, Dougie Hall, Scott Lawson
Locks: Richie Gray, Jim Hamilton, Nathan Hines, Alastair Kellock
Back rows: John Barclay, Kelly Brown, Ross Rennie, Alasdair Strokosch, Richie Vernon


Last edited by RDW_Scotland on Mon 22 Aug - 11:24; edited 1 time in total

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Post by R!skysports Mon 22 Aug - 10:17

No real surprises execpt Vernon. Not sure if he did enough to travel, but proberbly around 50/50

Shame on Walker - actaully started to look dangerous - now we have Simon 'where is the defensive line?' Danielle Sad

Good Strengths and depth - second row and back row, scrum half
Good Strengths no depth - front row
Average to good - full back, wings
Concern, but could be ok - stand off,
Weakness - centres

In all a good first team, but a steep drop if going to second string in several key places



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Post by Coleman Mon 22 Aug - 10:58

Watching the news then they said they'll probs take a 17/13 split. I dont know enough about Scots rugby to suggest a squad, hopfully the three B's will be in good form though.

On another point. Us Welsh have been whinging, saying "oh our group is going to be so physical." I dont think i'd trade for your group though. Argies, England, Georga and the Romanians. Some big boys in that group. The lad who came on against Wales for the Argies. Skelitor i've renamed him, wouldnt fancy that. Best of luck guys.

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 22 Aug - 11:09

RDW, thanks for monitoring the airwaves and setting this up. I, like you, have heard the rumours that Vernon will get the nod over Beattie - I think that this could be Robbo's one mistake Braveheart

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Post by RDW Mon 22 Aug - 11:12

No announcement yet....

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Post by RDW Mon 22 Aug - 11:28

Biggest issue of debate definitely - Vernon instead of Beattie!

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Post by nickj Mon 22 Aug - 11:35

Its out and exactly as the Scotsman called it, disappointed for Beattie but he's had the opportunities. Vernon needs to up his game to merit the call. Just hope Robbo really see's Stroks as the back up 6, not Hinesy. Altogether chuffed.

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Post by nickj Mon 22 Aug - 11:45

If Kellock is captain, does anyone have any concerns with a second row, no. 8. combination of Kellock, Gray and Vernon?

In my mind that is too light weight and really needs a Hamilton or Hines in there to add some real beef and ballast.

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Post by Imperialbigdave Mon 22 Aug - 11:51

shame for laidlaw, at club level, he was easily the best 9, but never got any chance to prove himself at international level. far too conservative selection, he shouldve got a start in one of the games
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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Mon 22 Aug - 11:51

Taken from the Scotland site

Backs –
Joe Ansbro (London Irish) 7 caps, 1 try, 5 points – RWC newcomer
Mike Blair (Edinburgh) 72 caps, 6 tries, 30 points – RWC 2003 and 2007
Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors) 53 caps, 3 tries, 15 points – RWC 2007
Simon Danielli (Ulster) 30 caps, 6 tries, 30 points – RWC 2003
Nick De Luca (Edinburgh) 26 caps, 1 try, 5 points – RWC newcomer
Max Evans (Castres) 20 caps, 3 tries, 5 points – RWC newcomer
Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors) 8 caps, 1 penalty, 2 conversions, 1 drop-goal, 10 points – RWC newcomer
Rory Lamont (Toulon) 25 caps, 6 tries, 30 points – RWC 2007
Sean Lamont (Scarlets) 56 caps, 8 tries, 40 points – RWC 2007
Rory Lawson (Gloucester) 28 caps – RWC 2007
Graeme Morrison (Glasgow Warriors) 30 caps, 3 tries, 15 points – RWC newcomer
Dan Parks (Cardiff Blues) 62 caps, 4 tries, 15 conversions, 48 penalties, 14 drop-goals, 236 points – RWC 2007
Chris Paterson (Edinburgh) 105 caps, 22 tries, 163 penalties, 89 conversions, 3 drop-goals, 786 points – RWC 1999, 2003 and 2007

Forwards –

John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors) 29 caps, 2 tries, 10 points – RWC 2007
Kelly Brown (Saracens) 46 caps, 4 tries, 20 points – RWC 2007
Geoff Cross (Edinburgh) 6 caps – RWC newcomer
Alasdair Dickinson (Sale Sharks) 21 caps, 1 try, 5 points – RWC 2007
Ross Ford (Edinburgh) 49 caps, 2 tries, 10 points – RWC 2007
Richie Gray (Glasgow Warriors) 12 caps – RWC newcomer
Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors) 36 caps, 1 try, 5 points – RWC 2003
Jim Hamilton (Gloucester) 32 caps, 1 try, 5 points – RWC 2007
Nathan Hines (Clermont Ferrand) 73 caps, 2 tries, 10 points – RWC 2003 and 2007
Allan Jacobsen (Edinburgh) 56 caps – RWC 2003 and 2007
Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors) CAPTAIN 34 caps, 1 try, 5 points – RWC newcomer
Scott Lawson (Gloucester) 28 caps, 2 tries, 10 points – RWC 2007
Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors) 15 caps – RWC newcomer
Euan Murray (Newcastle Falcons) 39 caps, 2 tries, 10 points – RWC 2007
Ross Rennie (Edinburgh) 8 caps – RWC newcomer
Alasdair Strokosch (Gloucester) 20 caps, 1 try, 5 points – RWC newcomer
Richie Vernon (Sale Sharks) 12 caps – RWC newcomer

Beattie has lost out to Vernon. Feel sorry for him as he should never have been picked in those 6 Nations games as he was nowhere near fit. Those poor performances have counted against him.

Laidlaw can feel hard done by, but I can understand why they went for Blair and Cusiter.

Kellock to captain, would suggest he is in the starting XV. Not so sure he is one of our best 2 Locks.

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Post by R!skysports Mon 22 Aug - 11:53

nickj wrote:If Kellock is captain, does anyone have any concerns with a second row, no. 8. combination of Kellock, Gray and Vernon?

In my mind that is too light weight and really needs a Hamilton or Hines in there to add some real beef and ballast.

Not sure beattie did enough to get on the plane imo

Although Vernon is a bit more light weight and needs to step up a bit

I think the second point on teh second row. It looked like AR was trying out Kellock and Hines, so maybe the pairing would be

Kellock and Hines
Gray and Hamilton

Which I think would be the strongest


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Post by R!skysports Mon 22 Aug - 11:56

My thoughts on 1st team

Full-backs: Chris Paterson
Wings: Max Evans, Sean Lamont
Centres: Joe Ansbro, Graeme Morrison
Stand-offs: Ruaridh Jackson,
Scrum-halves: Mike Blair
Props: , Allan Jacobsen Euan Murray
Hookers: Ross Ford,
Locks: Nathan Hines, Alastair Kellock
Back rows: John Barclay, Kelly Brown, Richie Vernon.


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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 22 Aug - 12:03

Happy with the 30, with just the one black mark - Richie Vernon simply isn't a test-class player. He did ok on Saturday, nothing more, and I can't help but cast my mind back to the All Blacks game in the autumn where he was so far out of his depth and just looked like a lost little boy - wish I'd sent Robbo the DVD to remind him now. Beattie must be gutted and IMO is miles ahead of Vernon even on an off-day.

Anyway, 'tis done now, time to get behind the squad. Defo think we have the playing personnel to get thru to the quarters, but unless we do so by winning the group, that will be the end of our participation. Really looking forward to 10th Sept - will be stuck in a B&B in Orkney but will find a TV somewhere to watch our opener against Romania Braveheart

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 22 Aug - 12:04

Riskysports wrote:My thoughts on 1st team

Full-backs: Chris Paterson
Wings: Max Evans, Sean Lamont
Centres: Joe Ansbro, Graeme Morrison
Stand-offs: Ruaridh Jackson,
Scrum-halves: Mike Blair
Props: , Allan Jacobsen Euan Murray
Hookers: Ross Ford,
Locks: Nathan Hines, Alastair Kellock
Back rows: John Barclay, Kelly Brown, Richie Vernon.

+1

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Post by Jenifer McLadyboy Mon 22 Aug - 12:11

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Riskysports wrote:My thoughts on 1st team

Full-backs: Chris Paterson
Wings: Max Evans, Sean Lamont
Centres: Joe Ansbro, Graeme Morrison
Stand-offs: Ruaridh Jackson,
Scrum-halves: Mike Blair
Props: , Allan Jacobsen Euan Murray
Hookers: Ross Ford,
Locks: Nathan Hines, Alastair Kellock
Back rows: John Barclay, Kelly Brown, Richie Vernon.

+1

Bar the back row that team is onlya kick in the b0llix away from the one that struggled to beat an Ireland 2nd string team in the last few minutes, a few weeks ago.

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Post by R!skysports Mon 22 Aug - 12:16

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:[

Bar the back row that team is onlya kick in the b0llix away from the one that struggled to beat an Ireland 2nd string team in the last few minutes, a few weeks ago.[/quote]


Also front row changes and scrum half changes, which were the weaknesses

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Post by Redrage Mon 22 Aug - 12:17

I have a feeling Brown is going in as no 8. Strokosch looked very good against Ireland, if I am wrong about that last part then Hines is in the squad too, and AR likes him at 6 too. He certainly won't be in the 2nd row with Kellock as captain and Gray as our star performer over the last year. With this in mind I find it even more unusual that he took Vernon over Beattie. Beattie might have gotten up to speed, while Vernon isn't quite their yet. Beattie was worth a gamble imo.

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Post by Notch Mon 22 Aug - 12:25

I'm really surprised about the omissions of Beattie and Laidlaw, for different reasons.

Laidlaw I think was the man in form and I think he could potentially offer more than Blair as well as additional 10 cover. John Beattie is a good, attritional player who I would have thought could have come into his own in that group you have. I agree he's better than Vernon.
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Post by Redrage Mon 22 Aug - 12:36

Good call, Notch... Blair is in there on reputation, so why isn't Beattie?

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Post by R!skysports Mon 22 Aug - 12:36

Redrage wrote: He certainly won't be in the 2nd row with Kellock as captain and Gray as our star performer over the last year. .

Not sure I agree. I think while he played well, the combination of Kellock and Gray did not work that well.

Think Hines and Kellock as starting second row for the big games and Hamilton and Gray for the other games, with one of them being the impact second row sub

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Post by Redrage Mon 22 Aug - 12:48

Riskysports wrote:
Redrage wrote: He certainly won't be in the 2nd row with Kellock as captain and Gray as our star performer over the last year. .

Not sure I agree. I think while he played well, the combination of Kellock and Gray did not work that well.

Think Hines and Kellock as starting second row for the big games and Hamilton and Gray for the other games, with one of them being the impact second row sub

Kellock and Gray worked well in the 6N, so I would disagree with you there and they played together often at Glasgow. Since when did they not work well together and what evidence would you put forward to prove such a statement?

You may be right, perhaps Hines will get the nod to start. I think it would be madness. His best days have been and gone. As for impact subs.... Hamilton has yet to make an impact in 32 caps, so that rules him out.

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Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man Mon 22 Aug - 12:49

Taking Vernon over Beattie - not good, not good at all ! Unless Beattie has not responded well in training but on the evidence of the Ireland match he was getting back to his game. Vernon tried hard but was ultimately poor on Saturday - esp. the 2nd Italian try. Danielli bloody lucky too as he was pathetic on Saturday and can only be going as a result of Nikki Walker's injury. Danielli is a defensive nightmare and disaster in waiting. Would have been better to take Laidlaw too instead of Lawson who was shocking v Ireland. Really quite depressed but glad Big Al is the captain as he will, as always, give his all. Crying or Very sad
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Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man Mon 22 Aug - 12:57

Redrage,
hear what you are saying but Hines is a very savvy operator who is an excellent game reader. Think Hines and Kellock will start with Gray as impact - as per Saturday. Also think Cusiter should start as SH with Blair on the bench. Still stunned about JB's omission though ! Crying or Very sad
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Post by Redrage Mon 22 Aug - 13:05

I have always been a big fan of Hines, but I just feel Gray offers more at 2nd row now. He is everywhere, makes yards, makes tackles and disrupts opposition lineouts. He is a monster, opponents will be far happier with him on our bench too. I think Hines started at the weekend for game time, I wouldn't read too much into pairings in the basis of the warm up games.

When Kellock and Gray play, we disrupt more line out ball, we make more tackles and are more mobile. Hines may well start, but I suspect he'll be a 6 if he does. Especially since Beattie isn't going. Mark my words, Vernon will not be our first choice No.8.

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Post by R!skysports Mon 22 Aug - 13:17

[quote="Redrage"]
Riskysports wrote:
Redrage wrote:

Kellock and Gray worked well in the 6N, so I would disagree with you there and they played together often at Glasgow. Since when did they not work well together and what evidence would you put forward to prove such a statement?

You may be right, perhaps Hines will get the nod to start. I think it would be madness. His best days have been and gone. As for impact subs.... Hamilton has yet to make an impact in 32 caps, so that rules him out.

The area I was concerned about with that partnership was the scrum. It seemed to be highlighted all through the 6 nations that the second row was not packing together well enough and was one of the main (not only) reason for the terrible 6 nation scrum we had.

I think for balance A Hines gray, or hines kellock would be best.

Hamilton actually has been playing well for the last half of the season, and helped Gloucester to where they ended up, so think he would provide a good resourse

I think our second row is a strong area, but we need to get the combinations right, and for scrumming, I did not think Gray and kellock worked that well

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 22 Aug - 13:33

Really didn't see Beattie's omission coming. I thought he looked ok against Ireland. We'll miss his ball carrying.

Otherwise it's pretty much as expected.

Unlucky (i.e. most disppointed not to make it) - Beattie, Laidlaw and Walker.

Lucky (i.e. the most relieved at the squad announcement) - Low, Murray, Vernon (to a degree), Cusiter and Danielli.

I'm pleased that Strokosch is going as it looks very much like we won't see Hines at 6.

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Post by nickj Mon 22 Aug - 13:39

Mr Douglas Hall is 'lucky' there are so few hookers in Scotland. His throwing in on Saturday was woeful.

But enough of the pessimism - I cant wait! The Romania game coincides nicely with my stag!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 22 Aug - 13:41

Hall is lucky, but he wouldn't have been sweating on his place. He's there by default. If he plays a single minute other than as a result of injury, it'll be a poor decision.

The Romania game is at 4am (UK time) I think Nickj. Perfect timing for you to push through and celebrate that bonus point win......

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Post by Redrage Mon 22 Aug - 13:53

Riskysports wrote:

The area I was concerned about with that partnership was the scrum. It seemed to be highlighted all through the 6 nations that the second row was not packing together well enough and was one of the main (not only) reason for the terrible 6 nation scrum we had.

I think for balance A Hines gray, or hines kellock would be best.

Hamilton actually has been playing well for the last half of the season, and helped Gloucester to where they ended up, so think he would provide a good resourse

I think our second row is a strong area, but we need to get the combinations right, and for scrumming, I did not think Gray and kellock worked that well

Highlighted by whom? There are 8 men in a scrum and lots of areas for problems. The front row had a god awful 6N and has notably improved since Cross came into the side at tighthead. At least that is how I saw it. We'll just need to wait and see I guess.


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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 22 Aug - 13:54

The flip side of course is that Glasgow are getting both Harley and Beattie back at the start of the season which is a big boost, and Edinburgh will be pleased to get Denton, Laidlaw and Cairns back as well. Harley and Denton in particular will have picked up quite a bit being part of the pre-WC sessions, and obviously the training will have done Beattie quite a bit of good as well.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 22 Aug - 13:59

Redrage - Jim Telfer made quite a big deal about it during the 6 Nations. He felt that Gray, despite his stellar performances around the park, wasn't contributing enough power to the boiler room, and was partly to blame for Euan Murray's weak scrummaging performances.

Personally I'm not so sure about that and don't think it's that much of an issue. Murray was off-form and had lost the aggression in his game. Gray is a big lad, and I doubt that with his frame he's particularly underpowered. Perhaps in comparison to Hamilton, but then again Hamilton is a pretty uniquely powerful second row, and Murray should be able to hold his own without having Hamilton behind him.

My preferred combination is Hines and Gray, but with Kellock as captain I think we'll more likely see Hines and Kellock, with Gray on the bench, and Hamilton as cover.

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Post by Redrage Mon 22 Aug - 14:07

funnyExiledScot wrote:Redrage - Jim Telfer made quite a big deal about it during the 6 Nations. He felt that Gray, despite his stellar performances around the park, wasn't contributing enough power to the boiler room, and was partly to blame for Euan Murray's weak scrummaging performances.


Where did he make these comments? I only ever heard them from the odd poster on the old 606, decent Rugby coverage is hard to get if left to the BBC alone.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 22 Aug - 14:29

Here you go:

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/scotland-rugby-team/Rugby-Telfer-puts-question-mark.6734348.jp

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Post by Redrage Mon 22 Aug - 14:44

funnyExiledScot wrote:Here you go:

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/scotland-rugby-team/Rugby-Telfer-puts-question-mark.6734348.jp

Thanks for that, despite his immense standing in our game I think he is talking a load of guff there. At least there are 4 players capable of doing a decent job in this area, pity we don't have that sort of depth in a few other positions.

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Post by RDW Mon 22 Aug - 17:06

I have a feeling he might see are first choice backrow as:

6 - Strokosh
7 - Barclay
8 - Brown

And our backup (for Romania) as

6 - Hines
7 - Rennie
8 - Vernon

I just can't help but think that having Vernon at 8 is too lightweight for Argentina and England. Good impact sub though.

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Post by George Carlin Mon 22 Aug - 17:09

Came quite late to the party, but I can only reiterate the comments above.

Blair simply does not deserve to be in there ahead of Laidlaw. It is, as stated, a pick based on reputation rather than form, which is very disappointing from Robinson.

I think that we have to trust AR about Beattie and it's a judgement call between him and Vernon either way. Either Beattie was going to improve with gametime as it improved his fitness or Vernon was going to improve with gametime as it sharpened him up and proved he could match the physical requirements of international test rugby. Neither did it, so it was the lesser of two evils.

The only thought you are left with is that Beattie could not have trained well and his strengths (bullocking ball carrying, scrum weight) were deemed unlikely to have returned in time for what will be a physical world cup. That said, Vernon's position play and defence was terrible at the weekend and he will be thrown around by the Kainos and Higgenbothams out there. Not as comfortable as we would like to be at 8.

I like a traditional 4 and 5 in terms of physique so I think that clearly our best second row is Hines and Gray, but we are lucky that we have a replacement for each of them.

This could be Gray's world cup to come of age and I hope that he vindicates his undoubted ability.

Now all we can do is pray that the momentum of two wins carries through and we start scoring tries against the weaker members of the pool.

I don't think that Wales played well so much as the Pumas played badly this weekend and I do not fear them, provided we play well.

The key will be how Robinson plans to use Jackson and Parks (who controlled the game well against Italy).

Am as ever indecently excited and hopelessly optimistic.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 22 Aug - 18:30

"Blair simply does not deserve to be in there ahead of Laidlaw. It is, as stated, a pick based on reputation rather than form, which is very disappointing from Robinson."


I'd add Cusiter to that as well. He hasn't completed a proper competitive rugby match for quite a while, and hasn't shown real form either for some time. Blair I think played his way onto the plane with that last performance. Personally I thought it was pretty mixed, but the press and commentators thought he did well so maybe I missed something.

Laidlaw is very unlucky.

RDW - I don't think we'll necessarily see two separate back rows. I'd expect to see Strokosch, Rennie and Vernon play against Romania, with perhaps Brown on the bench coming on for Vernon on 60, and then against Georgia you could have Brown, Barclay and Vernon, with Strokosch coming on for either Brown or Vernon depending on the match situation. Same back row could easily play the last three group games (and onwards) given the spaces between games. Provided Vernon doesn't play the full 80 in both, he could certainly start both the Romania and Georgia games.

In sum, no need to use Hines at 6 at any stage. The 4 locks are all good enough to start, so I'd just rotate them all over the first two matches and then pick the best combo thereafter.

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Post by Imperialbigdave Mon 22 Aug - 20:31

I wouldnt be putting Vernon on against Georgia, as Gorgodze is one of the hardest peterfitzgibbons out there. he will eat Vernon alive. It has to be Stroks, Brown and Barclay/Rennie for all but the Romania match.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 23 Aug - 11:06

I wouldn't have a big issue with Strokosch, Barclay and Brown to be honest. It lacks a telling ball carrier, but I thought Strokosch carried really well against Ireland, and it's something Brown has been working on.

That said, I'm not a big fan of going like for like. I hope we're not planning on worrying too much about how Georgia might like the game to be played. By all accounts they've got a big pack of forwards, so to me that would suggest we go with a decent sized front five to keep them at bay, but play to our strengths otherwise and go with a faster paced game. I wouldn't rule Vernon out at all.

This is how I'd now approach the first two matches:

Romania:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Cross 4.Gray 5.Kellock (c) 6.Strokosch 7.Rennie 8.Vernon 9.Cusiter 10.Parks 11.S Lamont 12.Morrison 13.NDL 14.Evans 15.R Lamont

16.Murray 17.S Lawson (comes on at half time) 18.Hines 19.Brown (half time for Vernon) 20.R Lawson (half time) 21.Jackson (gets at least 20 minutes) 22.Ansbro

Georgia:

1.Jacobsen 2.Ford 3.Murray 4.Hamilton 5.Kellock (c) 6.Brown 7.Barclay 8.Vernon 9.Cusiter 10.Jackson 11.S Lamont 12.Morrison 13.Ansbro 14.Evans 15.CP

16.Cross 17.S Lawson 18.Gray 19.Strokosch 20.Blair 21.Parks 22.NDL


We then have a break to assess how the players played over the two matches, and which combinations appeared to work (and which did not). I wouldn't have too many preconceptions as to the starting XV for Argentina until both these games are out of the way.

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Scotland squad naming thread Empty Re: Scotland squad naming thread

Post by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 25 Aug - 14:51

Been away for a few days and missed the most important thread! I think leaving out Beattie is a big mistake and I also think its a heck of a gamble bringing Cusiter.

Danielli can consider himself a very lucky boy too. I have never seen a more disinterested display from a Scottish winger.
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Scotland squad naming thread Empty Re: Scotland squad naming thread

Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 25 Aug - 15:03

It's why I would start Cusiter in the first two warm-up games, to test his fitness. If he's not up to it and his injury flares up, I'd want Laidlaw out there earlier rather than later.

As you can see by my selections, I completely agree about Danielli. Scots fans always cut a lot of slack to honest triers who perhaps just lack the ability (we've had to), but never forgive a lack of committment and general lazyness, both of which were displayed in abundance by Danielli in that game.

Personally I'd have dropped Danielli and taken Beattie instead.

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Post by Manky-Flanker Thu 25 Aug - 15:20

The problem with taking Beattie and leaving Danielli is the Scotland team will only then have 12 backs for the entire campaign and no back-up wingers at all. It would be too risky.

I just hope Danielli finds his mojo, we need all 30 players at the top of their game.

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