Successful International Players Out of Position

How many can you think of?

I'm not talking about "Utility Backs" such as Austin Healey, Mike Catt, Francois Steyn who have appeared in virtually every position behind the scrum, nor back row players such as Worsley and haskell who have played in each of the 3 back row positions.

I'm thinking more of players who have actually done a fair job and represented their country out of their comfort zone. I can't think of a vast amount but these should hopefully set the ball rolling.

Jonny Wilkinson: a few of his early caps in 1999 were as a centre whilst Catt was at 10 (seems almost inexplicable now!).

John Smit: The Boks' hooker has done a fair job of posing as an international Tighthead Prop (on some 15 occasions). Not done too bad a job of it either, although certainly not the best!

Mark Andrews: During the 1995 RWC, injuries limited the Boks' side and Andrews was talked into playing at No.8 for the semi-final aginst France and the final aginst NZ. Considering who he was up against he did rather well.

Tim Rodber: A good English flanker and No.8, Rodber was converted to lock. I believe this was after he lost a bit of pace but due to his size and all-round ability the last 12 of his International Caps were as a lock; he scored 2 tries during this period. One of my favourite players of all time!

Obviously Hook - played 10, 12, 13 and 15, both Lamonts but in particular Sean (i'm no expert) but I think he's played 15, 13, 12, 11 and maybe 14. Gareth Thomas played a few positions as well

Apologies just reread your post and you were looking at a slightly different slant

I think Dan Carter started playing at 12 for the Crusaders and NZ before they moved him to outside half.

Lomu was a loose forward before going on the wing

Michael Jones was the world's best 7. After knee injuries cost him some pace he turned himself into the world's best 6, and played as a handy 8 too.

Considering that SPies was a wing, he isn't doing too bad at 8.

Mauro Bergamasco at scrum half - he just needed a few more games to bed in.

tbh with how the game is now, and players being so able to adapt, most backs if needed can interchange positions and can be expected to do a half deceant job, i mean many fly halves start as a centre to gain experience before taking such an important role, i mena mike phillips has played centre a few times for wales. likewise back row forwards are ussually reasonably tall and can play as lock such as josh turnball. unlikely things are forwards playing as backs, or props going to back row or second row etc.

Martin Corry played as a fairly handy lock a few times for England, even though he was clearly better as an 8.
Rodber was some player, but sadly is most remembered now for missing that tackle on Gibbs at Wembley (immediately after being wrongly penalised).

If I recall the story correcly, JPR played a midweek Lions game at flanker.

Banahan looks like he could be a useful 2nd row - certainly isn't much cop on the wing

Matt Giteau was moved to scrum half for a while towards the end of Gregan's career I think?

and of course Phillips plays very well as a flanker

HAS EVERYONE FORGOTTEN THIS?

Mike Phillips centre in the 3rd Lions test.

UNBELIEVABLE!

Well, this was experimental - 1988: Mark Ring, Bleddyn Bowen, Jonathon Davies and Tony Clement all outside-halves played against England at Twickenham. The result - England 3 (pen) Wales 11 (2 tries, 1 drop): http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/22036.html

Mark Ring - "I couldn't get off the bus quick enough. It was that intrigue about Twickenham, about 'HQ', to see what it was like. And on the treatment table there was a pile of tele-messages for us. I opened the top one and it read 'Kick sh!t out of the English bas-tards. Spike Milligan'.

Wales had picked four fly-halves yet our backline felt superbly balanced. We knew that as long as our forwards gained parity up front we would kill England in the backs"

The Iceman remains the most versatile world class player that there's been.
Respect to folk like Gitau and Paterson that have a number of caps in different positions all over the back division.
Carter did indeed start as a 12.

Let's pause a moment to consider the versatility of Dan Parks.

He can be a fly half and a donkey at the same time.

Team full of fly halves? Interesting!

9. Matthew Morgan
10. Stephen Jones
11.
12. Gavin Henson
13. James Hook
14.
15. Rhys Priestland

Mr Bounce wrote:....................
I'm thinking more of players who have actually done a fair job and represented their country out of their comfort zone. I can't think of a vast amount but these should hopefully set the ball rolling.

Jonny Wilkinson: a few of his early caps in 1999 were as a centre whilst Catt was at 10 (seems almost inexplicable now!).

Not that there was an awful lot of difference between 10 & 12 in that England team. Catt played outside Wilkinson often enough. It was felt that BOTH were too one footed as kickers from hand and each benefitted from having another kicking option outside them.

I seem to remember Catt saving JWs bacon in a couple of games.

PenfroPete wrote:Well, this was experimental - 1988: Mark Ring, Bleddyn Bowen, Jonathon Davies and Tony Clement all outside-halves played against England at Twickenham. The result - England 3 (pen) Wales 11 (2 tries, 1 drop): http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/22036.html

Mark Ring - "I couldn't get off the bus quick enough. It was that intrigue about Twickenham, about 'HQ', to see what it was like. And on the treatment table there was a pile of tele-messages for us. I opened the top one and it read 'Kick sh!t out of the English bas-tards. Spike Milligan'.

Wales had picked four fly-halves yet our backline felt superbly balanced. We knew that as long as our forwards gained parity up front we would kill England in the backs"

And they still missed 2 conversions!

I love the Spike Milligan quote though

This is going back a bit but does anyone recall England vs. Samoa in 1995 RWC match?

in last 10 minutes due to the massive hits placed by the samoans I think England at one point had Keiran Bracken and Brian Moore packing down as flank forwards....obviously not due to the versitility rather there was no one else bar the coaches left.

I can just see Brian Moore peeling off the side of the scrum ball in hand and charging through a disorganised defence and sprinting to the line! LOL

krusty wrote:Team full of fly halves? Interesting!

9. Matthew Morgan
10. Stephen Jones
11.
12. Gavin Henson
13. James Hook
14.
15. Rhys Priestland

How about

Tovey at 10
Move Henson to 15
Priestland onto wing
S Jones to 12.

Hope we never actually put that line up out but there you go

Don't forget Jinks at XV against the Boks in 97.

Ok ok, he was only successful because they didn't test him at all under the high ball and hardly at all in defence

I suppose you could have Nicky Robinson on the other wing - though it would be awful to see Priestland and Robinson stuck on the wings and S Jones at 12

10 R Priestland
11. ?
12 Henson
13 Hook
14 D Evans
15 Tovey

Would be better.

fa0019 wrote:This is going back a bit but does anyone recall England vs. Samoa in 1995 RWC match?

in last 10 minutes due to the massive hits placed by the samoans I think England at one point had Keiran Bracken and Brian Moore packing down as flank forwards....obviously not due to the versitility rather there was no one else bar the coaches left.

I seem to remember Peter Richards coming on as a replacement 6 in the RWC final. Not that it did any good...

Wasn't Ronan O'Gara in at centre at the end of the 2nd Lions test?
I don't think there was much choice since everyone else was injured in that match. Since Simon Shaw was playing such a great match, maybe he should have been put there?????

Mr. Bounce, You are right, Peter Richards did come on at 6. But, he was sent on as an extra back since the coaching staff felt the match was already lost unless England was able to generate more offense. Really a shot in the dark.

Martin Corry played as a fairly handy lock a few times for England, even though he was clearly better as an 8.

He also played blindside during the 2007 campaign. A real versatile work horse.

Healey was a bit of a legend and played every position in the backs I think? Certainly played 9/10/11/14/15 and moved into the centres to cover on oaccasion I think.

Ben Kay was also used as a make shift backrower against the Welsh in the 6N when England lost both 7s inside the first half.

JPR williams played flanker

doctor_grey wrote:Mr. Bounce, You are right, Peter Richards did come on at 6. But, he was sent on as an extra back since the coaching staff felt the match was already lost unless England was able to generate more offense. Really a shot in the dark.

I thought it was to cover an injury? Someone (I think Worsley) got injured and Richards was the only man left on the bench.

Just checked, it was Worsley going off 8 minutes after he came on, so most probably an injury.

Niall Quinn, who (if I know my rugby - and I do) played 2nd row for Man City & Ireland and once went to full-back or "goalie", and achieved the not-unimpressive feat of saving a penalty from that Welsh scoundrel Dean Saunders, a noted scrum-half or "striker".
Top that.

I cant think of a huge number which havent already been mentioned at international level at least. Aside from short term switches due to injury, would it be fair to say that a large number of these changes have been backrow moving forward into second row?

On the op, Tim Rodber was a bit of a legend wasnt he? The backrow of him, ben Clarke and Deano was pretty good back in the day!

What about Andy Farrell?? Good league forward, prop and 2nd rower, then to union as a centre.

doctor_grey wrote:Wasn't Ronan O'Gara in at centre at the end of the 2nd Lions test?

i know you said NOT Austin Healy but i thought he was quality. Loved him on the 2001 lions video, would be a brilliant mate.

Steve Thompson covered at 8 for Brive for a few matches I believe?
Brits used to play backrow as well I believe?

How about

Jane, Dagg, Mils, Toeava, Slade all played a lot or mostly at fullback. Guilford I think played there a little in his youth as well.