Irish team announcement - discussion thread.

[Glas a du]

Ireland team to face USA in Rugby World Cup Pool C on Sunday, 11 September at 7am (Irish time)

15 Geordan Murphy, 14 Tommy Bowe, 13 Brian O'Driscoll, 12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Keith Earls, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Conor Murray, 8 Jamie Heaslip, 7 Shane Jennings, 6 Stephen Ferris, 5 Paul O'Connell, 4 Donncha O'Callaghan, 3 Mike Ross, 2 Rory Best, 1 Tom Court

Replacements: 16 Jerry Flannery, 17 Tony Buckley, 18 Donnacha Ryan, 19 Denis Leamy, 20 Eoin Reddan, 21 Ronan O'Gara, 22 Andrew Trimble

Source: RTE.


( I always wanted to do that)

[Glas a du]

At the 45 minute mark there are...0 comments. Is this going to be the least controversial Irish team thread in history?

[doctornickolas]

To be fair mate you did post it at 4am according to the time stamp.....can't sleep?

[Pal Joey]

Yeah, get some sleep glas.

The tide is due in shortly....

[Biltong]

Looks like your best team (the little I do know about Irish players).

I would think Declan Kidney is starting his real preparations for the RWC now, he would want to see structure, control and few mistakes.

Ireland should win this easily, even though the USA may be emotionally hyped and motivated, Irish by 20-30 points.

[Mickado]

Murray gets his first start. Cracking.
Good to see Ferris back in there too. That team won't shock anyone or cause much controversy so this thread could be a short one!

[GunsGerms]

Kearney and OBrien injured? Thought they were ok. Surely they should start.

[Thomond]

No Trimble,but I imagine Deccie is resting him. D'Arcy and BOD need to do something big.

[Glas a du]

Murray gets his first start. Cracking.
Good to see Ferris back in there too. That team won't shock anyone or cause much controversy so this thread could be a short one!

Come on, there must be some inter provincial scab somebody is dying to pick?

[Mickado]

Murray gets his first start. Cracking.
Good to see Ferris back in there too. That team won't shock anyone or cause much controversy so this thread could be a short one!

Come on, there must be some inter provincial scab somebody is dying to pick?

Muh...

[WillyGilly]

Decent side. I hope none of the yanks break any of our players.

[Glas a du]

Don't worry, they are crap without pads and helmets.

[rodders]

Too many Munster men in that side, no Paddy Wallace and poor auld Trimble is dropped because of his religious beliefs.....

SUFTUM! ........


Only messing, looks a good side. It will be interesting to see how that back row goes and hopefully Jennings can bring his Leinster form to the Irish jersey and give Kidney a headache for the Australia game. Stephen Ferris needs to be at his best to keep the 6 jersey and Heaslip needs a big game after a quiet warm up series.

D'arcy and O'Callaghan need to refind their mojo's too and Sexton is under serious pressure from ROG for the 10 jersey against Australia. We need Bowe and BOD to bring their 'A' games, in fact we need big performances across the board.

Bring ot on !

[rodders]

Should this be merged with the other thread?:

https://www.606v2.com/t13390p100-ireland-vs-usa-discussion-thread

[dublin_dave]

decent side but on paper most of the sides we put out are

lets hope we start well and get some early scores to get the confidence levels up. then we should win by 20.

if we crawl out of the blocks i have a bad feeling we could be dragged into a real dogfight especially given our lack of form over the last 15months

[marty2086]

Trimble hopefully is just being rested as he was the best player by a mile in the warm up games

D'Arcy needs a big game or just else just retire hes been woeful since he came back

[rodders]

Trimble hopefully is just being rested as he was the best player by a mile in the warm up games

From Kidney's comments it looks like he's been dropped rather than rested:

"Kidney acknowledged that Ulster wing Trimble could consider himself unfortunate to lose out to Earls after impressing in the recent warm-up series.

"We have three wingers who have been going well. Keith has had three games but two of those have been in the centre.

"Andrew's losing out and he's unlucky. He's had four games and has done very well. It's a good position for us to be in.""

By the sounds of it Trimble hasn't done enough to push himself above Earls or Bowe in the pecking order.

[D24tress]

I have a feeling that jennings is going to announce himself in this tournie

i just think that he will come good internationaly

[formerly known as Sam]

Good to see Geordan getting a go, hope he's back to full fitness and form so that he can prove once and for all to his countrymen just how good he is. We in Leicestershire know it but you guys seem to have missed out, hope he takes this last chance to wow you.

[dublin_dave]

sounds like it rodders. he is very unlucky given he was the only player to perform well in the warm ups. Deccie certainly applies form in some areas of the park however like all coaches has his favourites. Earls and Darcy certainly fall into this category. At least he gets a bench slot

[rodders]

I don't think it's a case of Irish fans not realising how good Geordan Murphy is, we all know he's a classy player.

However he's rarely brought the same form to Ireland that he has for teh Tigers. There's also been other good options over the years like Girven Dempsey and more recently Rob Kearney which has restricted Murphy's chances.

He seems to be the focal point in the Tigers attacks but for Ireland he hasn't fitted the gameplan so well. The Tigers also play with a dominant pack whereas when under more pressure with Ireland he hasn't always come up with the goods.

I'm glad he's gotten another chance on the world stage though and hopefully he can go out in style.

[rodders]

sounds like it rodders. he is very unlucky given he was the only player to perform well in the warm ups. Deccie certainly applies form in some areas of the park however like all coaches has his favourites. Earls and Darcy certainly fall into this category. At least he gets a bench slot

Yeah I don't like to see it to be honest. I know from my own playing days that a coach displaying favouritism is the single most destructive thing to a players motivation and team spirit.

Players need to know that when they perform they have a chance of selection and when they don't there's a chance of being dropped.

Look at NZ leaving out Gear or England promoting Tuilagi to the 1st team and dropping palmer. This keeps everyone on their toes but when underperforming players are given chance after chance and high performing fringe players are ignored then it leads to a complacency and frustration.

I'm not saying Kidney does this all the time but he can be pretty inconsistant with his selection policy at times.

[formerly known as Sam]

He seems to be the focal point in the Tigers attacks but for Ireland he hasn't fitted the gameplan so well.

Certainly with ROG at 10 and Steady Eddie in charge Geordan's tendancy to come into the line as first reciever or secondary playmaker certainly didn't fit. A much more regimented game plan was put in place and I think probabley key to Ireland's down fall at the last RWC (trying to play Munster tight control rugby vs Namibia and Georgia really didn't work). There does seem to be more fluency in the attack under Deccie, although, a lack of penetration from the centres when BOD is unavailable seems to be hurting you at the minute. If Murphy is given more of a free role he will produce the goods, he is by no means a standard full back but right now Ireland need invention and he will deliver that and a whole lot of experience as well.

[marty2086]

Trimble hopefully is just being rested as he was the best player by a mile in the warm up games

From Kidney's comments it looks like he's been dropped rather than rested:

"Kidney acknowledged that Ulster wing Trimble could consider himself unfortunate to lose out to Earls after impressing in the recent warm-up series.

"We have three wingers who have been going well. Keith has had three games but two of those have been in the centre.

"Andrew's losing out and he's unlucky. He's had four games and has done very well. It's a good position for us to be in.""

By the sounds of it Trimble hasn't done enough to push himself above Earls or Bowe in the pecking order.

Really hope that isnt true I like Earls and Bowe but no matter where Earls has played recently he hasn't looked back to his best he showed a few glimpses of getting there against England and Bowe is always dangerous but Trimble showed his quality and did everything asked of him maybe Im biased as an Ulsterman but he has to play surely or is this going to be a case of names over form

[Sin é]

sounds like it rodders. he is very unlucky given he was the only player to perform well in the warm ups. Deccie certainly applies form in some areas of the park however like all coaches has his favourites. Earls and Darcy certainly fall into this category. At least he gets a bench slot

Earls isn't the only one who didn't perform well in the warmups - but there is a good chance if he had 4 games on the wing he too could be in flying form as well.
I think Trimble's competition for a starting wing slot is Tommy Bowe, who should consider himself lucky to be starting against USA if picking on form over the last 6 months.

Earls is a different type of winger to both Bowe & Trimble - so offers the option of being able to run around players rather than through them. He also has an excellent chip and chase game which might be needed to unlock some defenses. Hopefully with a more or less settled team, he will get back to his best.

[valjester]

Trimble hopefully is just being rested as he was the best player by a mile in the warm up games

From Kidney's comments it looks like he's been dropped rather than rested:

"Kidney acknowledged that Ulster wing Trimble could consider himself unfortunate to lose out to Earls after impressing in the recent warm-up series.

"We have three wingers who have been going well. Keith has had three games but two of those have been in the centre.

"Andrew's losing out and he's unlucky. He's had four games and has done very well. It's a good position for us to be in.""

By the sounds of it Trimble hasn't done enough to push himself above Earls or Bowe in the pecking order.

Really hope that isnt true I like Earls and Bowe but no matter where Earls has played recently he hasn't looked back to his best he showed a few glimpses of getting there against England and Bowe is always dangerous but Trimble showed his quality and did everything asked of him maybe Im biased as an Ulsterman but he has to play surely or is this going to be a case of names over form

I think it might be that the management are worried about the lack of tries from our backs and feel that earls and bowe are probably the most likely to finish limited chances. Or much more likely we're reading too much into it and trimble is just getting a rest after playing all the warmups.

[dublin_dave]

"There does seem to be more fluency in the attack under Deccie"

where is the evidence of this??? I have not seen any whatsoever

I think our backs were far more dangerous and innovative under steady Eddie both of first phase and off multi phase moves. It just went horribly wrong in the last world cup.

the backs under kidney/gaffney have been crap in 80% of the games

right trying to stay positive. deep breath, count to 10.

[rodders]

I thought Earls played ok in the Warm-ups actually. OK he was shown up by Tuilagi for the try but I thought he was our most dangerous back against England and tackled very well too.

Bowe was pretty poor but apart from O'Driscoll he's our only genuine world class try scorer so for me is worth the risk.

It's a difficult one because 3 into 2 don't go but I think there is no justification for leaving out Trimble.

Personally I'd have left D'arcy out and put Earls into the centre alongside BOD but that would be way to radical for the Irish coaches .

[rodders]

I think our backs were far more dangerous and innovative under steady Eddie both of first phase and off multi phase moves. It just went horribly wrong in the last world cup.

I concur. But then we had a scrum and lineout under EOS too. The law changes make it harder to launch attacks of 1st phase but our general back play and handling has been very predictable and naive under Kidney.

[Kingshu]

Murphy has always been one of my favourite players, but he just came in at a bad time, first he had to battle with Dempsey and now Kearney.

I used to get annoyed that EOS always picked solid defensive Dempsey ahead of attack minded Murphy, (two great fullbacks).

but thinking back now I understand it, if you have ROG and Stringer at half back (lets be honest they can't really tackle) do you want the defensive or attacking fullback playing? Defensive everytime I'm afraid and thats why Murphy won't get as many caps as his skills deserve.

now to this team talking points

Earls for Trimble
Murray for Reddan
Murphy or Kearney
D'arcy or Wallace
Best or Flannery
SOB or Jennings
Court or Buckley

I hope Trimble has just been dropped to give him a rest, as I think hes been playing better than Earls, and maybe also to give Earls more time on the wing, but for the Aus game hope Trimble is back (unless Earls has a really outstanding game)

Murray for Reddan, Murray needs gametime at this level, good match to give it to him, same for Court.

Both Murphy and Kearney could do with more time, but with Kearney not on the bench to come on and get it, it looks like Murphy has the number 15 shirt as his.

Best/Flannery, will prob see plenty of gametime each and the better will start against Aus, big game for both.

and Jennings needs gametime so good chance for him to get it and rest SOB if he isn't 100% fit.

D'arcy/Wallace this debate goes on, both could do with the gametime but Kidney prefers D'arcy, I personally think he needs to step up a level from his current form in this game and the next (he'll start both for sure) or he could risk losing his place.


We are still thinking of this game as getting the best team sorted for the Aus game, so are prepared to have people getting gametime, however come the Aus squad we'll be argueing a lot more.

[valjester]

I thought Earls played ok in the Warm-ups actually. OK he was shown up by Tuilagi for the try but I thought he was our most dangerous back against England and tackled very well too.

Bowe was pretty poor but apart from O'Driscoll he's our only genuine world class try scorer so for me is worth the risk.

It's a difficult one because 3 into 2 don't go but I think there is no justification for leaving out Trimble.

Personally I'd have left D'arcy out and put Earls into the centre alongside BOD but that would be way to radical for the Irish coaches .

I'd agree with you on dropping darcy and that earls has been unfairly criticised but that is always going to happen to the Irish 13 unless their name is Bod.
The only possible reason for leaving trimble out is because earls and bowe have a better try scoring record but I think that would be very unfair.

[valjester]

Wally on todayfm now if anyone interested.

[rodders]

I'd agree with you on dropping darcy and that earls has been unfairly criticised but that is always going to happen to the Irish 13 unless their name is Bod.
The only possible reason for leaving trimble out is because earls and bowe have a better try scoring record but I think that would be very unfair.

Val this is the problem in Ireland: Player power. No Irish or Leinster coach is going to force O'Driscoll to switch position against his will.

If HRH Mike Tindall is willing to take his WC winners medal and switch position to accommodate a younger, more dynamic player then I don't see any reason why BOD can't either.

[valjester]

I'd agree with you on dropping darcy and that earls has been unfairly criticised but that is always going to happen to the Irish 13 unless their name is Bod.
The only possible reason for leaving trimble out is because earls and bowe have a better try scoring record but I think that would be very unfair.

Val this is the problem in Ireland: Player power. No Irish or Leinster coach is going to force O'Driscoll to switch position against his will.

If HRH Mike Tindall is willing to take his WC winners medal and switch position to accommodate a younger, more dynamic player then I don't see any reason why BOD can't either.

If we ever see it bod will still have to wear the 13 jersey but he can play at 12. I thought that besides the tuilaigi mistake earls was good in defence for both games at 13 was good and although he had a poor game on the wing his problems weren't in defence. I think it is fair to say that he would do better alongside bod as bod is a good communicator and there would less pressure on earls having to organise the defence. Whichever of earls or trimble are selected I'll be happy enough because they are both good player, who had good season last year, but I will feel really sorry for whichever one get the 22 jersey.

Wally said on the radio that he had to have operations to fix medial and cruciate ligaments and on cartilage damage, That will probably keep him out for a good while. He also said he hope he has another few years left for munster and ireland.

[Notch]

If we ever see it bod will still have to wear the 13 jersey but he can play at 12.

That annoys me to be honest. He is not bigger than the team. If he plays 12, he should wear 12 on his back.

[rodders]

If we ever see it bod will still have to wear the 13 jersey but he can play at 12.

That annoys me to be honest. He is not bigger than the team. If he plays 12, he should wear 12 on his back.

I couldn't give a monkeys what number he wears. What bothers me is that our best performing back is getting splinters on his backside while we carry that piece of deadwood Gordon D'arcy through another international.

[formerly known as Sam]

I think our backs were far more dangerous and innovative under steady Eddie both of first phase and off multi phase moves. It just went horribly wrong in the last world cup.

You did win your first grandslam in how many years? Once rid of Steady Eddie and some of Irelands play in the last RWC was just horrific, I had the 'joy' of watching all the games with a Limerick born friend of mine who had his head in a pint of Guinness for pretty much the entirity of each. This year the team seems to have gone a bit wonkey and I'm not sure why but there seems to be a general loss of control at the set piece and now real confidence in any half back pairing. The chopping and changing of your half backs and rotation of the backline seems to have ended any continuity you seemed to have (6N game vs England aside).

[valjester]

If we ever see it bod will still have to wear the 13 jersey but he can play at 12.

That annoys me to be honest. He is not bigger than the team. If he plays 12, he should wear 12 on his back.

I couldn't give a monkeys what number he wears. What bothers me is that our best performing back is getting splinters on his backside while we carry that piece of deadwood Gordon D'arcy through another international.

It is annoying, but bod has a load of endorsements and business interests built around 'bod 13', but in 04 when darcy had probably his best season for Ireland he played at 13 despite wearing 12. I've a bad feeling that in the future bod is going to cause a lot of trouble by being too big to drop. It isn't a worry at the moment because he is still a brilliant player and in the top 3 13s in the world but age will eventually catch up with him.

I think that Ireland's best backline should inculde bowe, earls and trimble. Unfortunately it is unlike we will see them all on the pitch at the same time this world cup.

[dublin_dave]

i think we could argue till the cows come home about the make up of the backline. we should have sufficient depth of talent to score tries regardless of the combination they line out in.

selection is completely irrelevant however if the extent of backline coaching involves shuffling the ball back and forth across the pitch with nobody coming onto the ball at pace or no dummy runners.

hopefully mr gaffney is double bluffing us all and has many many tricks up his sleeve

[red_stag]

Val - I'd say we'll see Trimble, Earls and Bowe against USA. Trimble to replace Murphy in 2nd half.

[rodders]

selection is completely irrelevant however if the extent of backline coaching involves shuffling the ball back and forth across the pitch with nobody coming onto the ball at pace or no dummy runners.

hopefully mr gaffney is double bluffing us all and has many many tricks up his sleeve

Coming onto the ball at pace and using dummy runners is also competely irrelevent if you are attacking with slow ball 5 metres behind the gainline.

I'd like to see Sexton play a bit more percentages early on and kick to the corners.

We need to see far more effective carrying from the pack and if we get kickable penalties then we need to take the points. If we get good ball retention and generate quick ball then I think the points will come but the main thing for me is that we get the basics right because it's our ability to retain the ball which will define how well we do against Australia.

[WillyGilly]

If Trimble comes in for Murphy presumably Earls goes to fb.

[Standulstermen]

Surely Trimble is just being rested? Earls would need a stormer to take the wing spot off him imo. Bowe we will have to see about. He has only played one game so this will be a better indicator of where he is at.

The only really bad game Earls had (imo) was against France at the Aviva where he was onlu surpassed by TOL. That being said he has had one bad game and two games where i thought he was reasonable (and out of position depending on your viewpoint) but he cost us a try.
Thats no basis for selection imo and before people accuse me of bias i actually agree with his selection for this game. Trimble has 4 games under him and Earls has been messed about a bit due to BOD's injury. Giving him a run here makes sense.

Regarding the later point about moving BOD to 12 post RWC. If Kidney (or any coach for that matter) doesnt have the balls to move a player then they dont belong in the job. I firmly believe Kidney would do this if he feels it will benefit the team.

Also, Is Murray our first choice 9? If he isnt and Reddan is then this is a baffling selection

[rodders]

Val - I'd say we'll see Trimble, Earls and Bowe against USA. Trimble to replace Murphy in 2nd half.

I'd say if Trimble comes on it will be for BOD. I can't see Kidney risking the great man ahead of the Australia game so if we pull out of sight then he'll be off.

[red_stag]

Willy - yes Trimble and Bowe wings. Earls 15. I see it being a showdown between Kearney and Murphy to see which "specialst fullback" makes our 22.

[red_stag]

BOD needs to 80 mins IMO Rodders.

[valjester]

If Trimble comes in for Murphy presumably Earls goes to fb.

Yeah and earls gets even more f***ed around that he has been already. The amount of potential earls has is going to be wasted until munster and ireland get in competent backs coaches. If he played for a team like leinster, toulouse or even ulster, earls would be a much better and more rounded players. At times last season Munsters game plan seemed to be to give the ball to earls and see if he can make something happen out of nothing, which he was never going to do in the first half of the season when he was clearly not fully fit.

[Boyne]

Thats no basis for selection imo and before people accuse me of bias i actually agree with his selection for this game.

BIAS!!!

...sorry, I just read the 2nd part of the sentence. Carry on..

[Boyne]

If he played for a team like leinster, toulouse or even ulster, earls would be a much better and more rounded players.

+ 1.

[Standulstermen]

Agreed Val. He does need managed better. I still dont think he is a centre but then there are Munster guys on here who watch him more than me who suggest that he is. Either way i hope the call is made (and stuck to) soon

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