Post match discussion - Wales 17 - 10 Samoa

First topic message reminder :

Wales beat Samoa for the first time at a World Cup.

Shane Williams scored a vital second-half try to ensure Wales overcame Samoa's stern challenge in Hamilton to boost their hopes of making the World Cup quarter-finals.

Samoa led 10-6 at the break through an Anthony Perenise try and Paul Williams' conversion and penalty.
James Hook kicked two first-half penalties for Wales and Rhys Priestland a brace after the break.
Wales wing Williams sealed victory 15 minutes from the end.

Wales: James Hook (Perpignan); George North (Scarlets), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues), Shane Williams (Ospreys); Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Bayonne); Paul James, Huw Bennett, Adam Jones (all Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Dragons), Sam Warburton (Blues, capt), Toby Faletau (Dragons).
Replacements: Lloyd Burns (Dragons), Gethin Jenkins, Bradley Davies (both Blues), Andy Powell (Sale Sharks), Tavis Knoyle, Scott Williams (both Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Blues).
Samoa: Paul Williams; Sailosi Tagicakibau, George Pisi, Seilala Mapusua, Alesana Tuilagi; Tasesa Lavea, Kahn Fotuali'i; Sakaria Taulafo, Mahonri Schwalger (c), Anthony Perenise, Daniel Leo, Kane Thompson, Ofisa Treviranus, Maurie Faasavalu, George Stowers.
Replacements: Ti'i Paulo, Census Johnston, Joe Tekori, Manaia Salavea, Jeremy Sua, Eliota Sapolu Fuimaono, James So'oialo.
Referee: Alain Rolland (IRFU)
Touch judge: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judge: Jérôme Garces (France)
TV match official: Giulio De Santis (Italy)

Warbs. Nuff said.

flyhalffactory wrote:Well done Powell............... he had a good game

No he did not...!

Why we have Powell not Turnbull, McCusker or Williams I do not know...!

He is one of the thickest players to ever play the game.

maestegmafia wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Well done Powell............... he had a good game

No he did not...!

Why we have Powell not Turnbull, McCusker or Williams I do not know...!

He is one of the thickest players to ever play the game.

Well done Wales . Good composure at the end, if Samoa could rule out silly mistakes like the double movement and dopey offences at the ruck they would of won.

Yes credit where credit is due the Samoans gave their all and it was always going to be tough for them with such a short break between games.

Right, well played Wales, did very well to keep a dangerous Samoa side out.

For me Rhys Priestland man of the match, thought he looked very composed and gave Wales enough control to get the job done.

Warburton very good again as well, especially in defence, and Roberts back to Lions form getting Wales over the gain line regularly.

Four hard earned points for the boyos there. Nobody can say that Wales aren't working their nuts off for this and if they get anywhere in this tournament it will be off the back of some serious hard work and will be fully deserved.

Poor performance, Samoa living off our numerous unforced errors, our breakdown was non existent due to Charteris and Powells lazy flop technique, Lineout returned to previous glory and scrum creeked due to a missbalance at 2nd row and absolutely nothing coming from 6 post Lydiate.

Good news...

The scrum was all us, when we got the set correct we destroyed them, the lineout just needs a touch up, our linespeed across the critical corridor was very poor at times but Geth and Davies seemed to tighten that up last 15, 1/2p showed a little shimmer of line running, albeit unconfident and hesitant, and Jon Davies is starting to look like a very good centre partner to Roberts, the fact that we don't have a selection problem there is a good sign. It looked like a rusty performance, mixed with nerves and inexperience, but the win is all important and the younger boys will have come out of that with a massive amount of experience!

And being honest if someone offered you a 7 point win last night would you have taken it?!

Cheers Pete

Halfpenny must play FB now, the Welsh attacking options greatly improved in the second half when he came on

Well done Wales - I'm off to the pub for breakfast.

Halfpenny looked very assured and was a real attacking threat. Hook's injury may prove a blessing in disguise for Wales.

A year ago or even less the Samoans would have physically blown us away but fortunately for us we have improved tremendously in that department and thats what won us the match today.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Poor performance, Samoa living off our numerous unforced errors, our breakdown was non existent due to Charteris and Powells lazy flop technique, Lineout returned to previous glory and scrum creeked due to a missbalance at 2nd row and absolutely nothing coming from 6 post Lydiate.

Good news...

The scrum was all us, when we got the set correct we destroyed them, the lineout just needs a touch up, our linespeed across the critical corridor was very poor at times but Geth and Davies seemed to tighten that up last 15, 1/2p showed a little shimmer of line running, albeit unconfident and hesitant, and Jon Davies is starting to look like a very good centre partner to Roberts, the fact that we don't have a selection problem there is a good sign. It looked like a rusty performance, mixed with nerves and inexperience, but the win is all important and the younger boys will have come out of that with a massive amount of experience!

And being honest if someone offered you a 7 point win last night would you have taken it?!

Samoa deserve a hell of a lot more credit than you are giving them.

Well done Wales, although I have to say at the end it was more relief than joy that I felt. There were too many errors and the discipline at times was worrying - we were so much more disciplined against South Africa. That said, the defence was good, and we sorted out the scrum problems early on, although the lineout was a bit wobbly. I was glad to see Halfpenny had a good game, also thought Charteris and Faletau had good games.

Worried about Hook's injury. He had an op on his shoulder not so long ago. I hope he's not out for too long again. We really missed Lydiate as well. Hope he's all right.

People saying we played well, but I think we were poor. We helped Samoa look good too by being rubbish at the lineout and not being able to compete at the breakdown on our own ball. Why can't we smash the rucks and clear out like other teams? It must be a coaching thing.

We also created pretty much zero. I can't remember us bothering their try line apart from the try?

we go 3rd in the group, need to put on a cricket score v namibia and hope for a decent fiji victory over samoa.

Gatts wrote:we go 3rd in the group, need to put on a cricket score v namibia and hope for a decent fiji victory over samoa.

Or just for SA to beat Samoa...

We just need to win the rest of our games and get a bonus point against Namibia unless Samoa beat South Africa.

Don't get me wrong, Samoa were as ever huge and physical, but every single attacking platform came from Welsh errors, missed kick dead, overthrown lineout, early engage at the scrum, scrum wheel after we blew them away, and we had to defend the fringes with only 6 forwards, Powell and Charteris were non existent at the breakdown!

Samoa surprised me by being so much more controlled than they normally are, the backline kept their shape going forward and defencively, but if we're honest the backline was never a threat, and was constantly broken when wales moved the ball from contact.

The strongest area for Samoa was the lineout, Charteris will be coming off the feild dizzy, short calls, full calls, front back centre they varied so much it was excellent!!!

You also have to remember that this samoa team beat Australia in exactly the same way they played us, destroying the breakdown and and attacking the fringes relentlessly.

Fiji will be similar but there is no way their lineout and scrum will be as strong, their backline will be a lot more potent though!

Roberts has been outstanding for us .

Griff wrote:People saying we played well, but I think we were poor. We helped Samoa look good too by being rubbish at the lineout and not being able to compete at the breakdown on our own ball. Why can't we smash the rucks and clear out like other teams? It must be a coaching thing.

We also created pretty much zero. I can't remember us bothering their try line apart from the try?

I'd say that was all credit to Samoa. Wales didn't have their most aesthetically pleasing match but we couldn't when confronted by that level of physicality.

Samoa were bigger, stronger and very talented. They don't give away penalties, get carded and they have a good set piece.

Wales did well to beat them. Especially infront of such a partisan crowd.

The match I cant wait to see is Fiji v Samoa how many yellows I wonder.

Cymroglan wrote:Roberts has been outstanding for us .

Yes he has.

JD also played well.

I would love to spend an hour in the analysis room with Andy Powell to ask him whats going through his head when he does the things he does, especially at an attacking ruck when he's rolling the wrong side on his own.

Roberts was ok, he and Davies look excellent defencively, without the worry of Hook on his shoulder Roberts seems to relax and concentrate on his jobe more. At FB Williams and North tend to drop deeper to cover, does that mean Hooks effect on all around him is negative? I think his only position can be is 10, but Preistland took a lot of cac ball from phillips and brought the centres into the game well, plus thats 2 games in a row that the 10 channel has been targeted and he's looked very technically sound!

Powell's tackling and body pos at rucks are all wrong, he tackles generally by trying to drag the opposing player backwards by his waist and throw him in a quasi judo move. He literally runs upright into the breakdown and gets felled.
He must be banned form being first reciever and, IMO his perf tonight might just be enough for WG to say FO. I only hope DL is fit for Fiji.

Alun-wyn MOM. I think he had a slow start with a few misakes, but put in an impressive shift after this. I think Powell was similar, made mistakes but I would like to see his tackle count.

Bringing on Halfpenny was the difference in this game, he looked very good. Nailed on to start the next game now. I would also bring in Hook at centre to replace JD. He just does not impress.

Cymroglan

I think you'll be surprised, Fiji and Samoa are not the same sides these days, they have that physical presence but have added set peice, patients, structure and most importantly composure, they don't tend to throw the clotheslines when they get flustered, or dump each other on their heads, I really hope i'm wrong though!!!

Ps anyone see Preistland take a swinging haymaker of a slap in the face late on when the 2nd row? was carrying into him?!

Halfpenny - Excellent, Hook is dropped even if he is fit (though we might miss his kicking), he really deserved a try, pity Jonathon Davies cant pass properly.

Warburton was not brilliant by his standards.

Gethin Jenkins decided to play at 7 again - Brilliant on feet penalty at the end (Warbs only got 2 of those in 80 minutes, Gethin got 1 in 20 - and people complain we only brought one 7...)

Priestland has better distribution and game managment than Hook and better tactical kicking and running than Stephen Jones (who was MOTM? It should have been Preistland)

The forwards made too many errors and were poor in the breakdown, which kept Samoa in it)

Roberts and to some extent Phillips are back to their Lions form.

North and Williams were excellent on the wings.

Faletau was very poor

Adam Jones needs some form, Paul James was superior in the scrum.

Hook was poor at FB for the first 40.

Ryan will be fit for the next match

Cymroglan wrote:Ryan will be fit for the next match

TFFT I had forgotten him

Any news on Lydiate and Hook ?

Well I'll take the win but buggy boy should'nt be anywhere near the Welsh side,total liability.

Adam Jones needs some form, Paul James was superior in the scrum.

Yes I was dissapointed with Adam today, struggled in the scrum at times and noticed him lazily walking on a few occasions. Maybe he is still not 100%? His defence on the line was very good though, along with the rest of the team.

Dominic

Are you kidding, Hook to replace Davies??? What exactly did Davies do wrong today? He and Roberts controlled the midfeild outright, defencively both were excellent and Davies made a number of breaks by simply playing on the 13 outside shoulder, and created the try.

Hook isn't in my starting 15 right now!!!

senghenydd1913 wrote:Well I'll take the win but buggy boy should'nt be anywhere near the Welsh side,total liability.

We looked a different side as soon as lyds went off.

Not long ago we would have been happy with any sort of win but these days we expect more and thats encouraging.

As long as Ryan stays fit we won't ever have to see powell in red again

maestegmafia wrote:

senghenydd1913 wrote:Well I'll take the win but buggy boy should'nt be anywhere near the Welsh side,total liability.

We looked a different side as soon as lyds went off.

What after 5 minutes....are you sure that wasnt just that we had possession more than once?

Wales were so poor at set plays and the breakdowns we made Samoa look good. Kicking balls out on the full at the time we were getting on top shows our weakness, JD2 almost butchered the try what a rubbish pass, he was the poorest back for me lacks skills he can work on. Preistland had an OK game, I would not want him to take a drop goal to win a match. I hope the injuries are not serious as we have Fiji to come. Powell was his normal terrible self in the first half but played much better in the second half, thank god we have Ryan Jones back for some composure.

Gethin did well when he came on doing his bit in winning a penalty. Half penny must be FB if Bryne is not going to play he looked good with his running and handling.

I think Wales needed this game to get our feet on the floor after the SA game.

If we were playing Fiji next I would go for 1/2 penny to FB and Hook (if not injured) to replace JD2, the forwards R Jones to replace Powell.

wales606 wrote:Halfpenny - Excellent, Hook is dropped even if he is fit (though we might miss his kicking), he really deserved a try, pity Jonathon Davies cant pass properly.

Warburton was not brilliant by his standards.

Gethin Jenkins decided to play at 7 again - Brilliant on feet penalty at the end (Warbs only got 2 of those in 80 minutes, Gethin got 1 in 20 - and people complain we only brought one 7...)

Priestland has better distribution and game managment than Hook and better tactical kicking and running than Stephen Jones (who was MOTM? It should have been Preistland)

The forwards made too many errors and were poor in the breakdown, which kept Samoa in it)

Roberts and to some extent Phillips are back to their Lions form.

North and Williams were excellent on the wings.

Faletau was very poor

Adam Jones needs some form, Paul James was superior in the scrum.

Hook was poor at FB for the first 40.

agree all round but for me Philipps just compounds our lethargy at the breakdown, crabbing, hesitant, didn't break one through the fringe. I want to see knoyle mismatching the Fijians.

Gatts wrote:

wales606 wrote:Halfpenny - Excellent, Hook is dropped even if he is fit (though we might miss his kicking), he really deserved a try, pity Jonathon Davies cant pass properly.

Warburton was not brilliant by his standards.

Gethin Jenkins decided to play at 7 again - Brilliant on feet penalty at the end (Warbs only got 2 of those in 80 minutes, Gethin got 1 in 20 - and people complain we only brought one 7...)

Priestland has better distribution and game managment than Hook and better tactical kicking and running than Stephen Jones (who was MOTM? It should have been Preistland)

The forwards made too many errors and were poor in the breakdown, which kept Samoa in it)

Roberts and to some extent Phillips are back to their Lions form.

North and Williams were excellent on the wings.

Faletau was very poor

Adam Jones needs some form, Paul James was superior in the scrum.

Hook was poor at FB for the first 40.

agree all round but for me Philipps just compounds our lethargy at the breakdown, crabbing, hesitant, didn't break one through the fringe. I want to see knoyle mismatching the Fijians.

Phillips made some good breaks, he also dealt well with some bad ball (particularly off the lineout) his passing still isnt quite good enough, but his decision making is improving (bar one stupid run that got turned over)

Wales 606

Have to agree with you, Hook is officially out of the starting 15, 1/2p wasn't excellent mind but you can see he is a better option, if not just a little hesitant at FB.

Warbs was very good, he just has a tendancy to be superb, I'd take that performance from him 10 times out of 10 though, definately no criticism for him!

Agree with you about Jones too, although I would say not having Geth and Rees (especially) in the scrum generally will hurt us, plus Charteris and Powell make the scrum difficult by being useless and out of balance, Not to mention a 20 yr old at 8. I wouldn't put too much blame Jones way scrumwise.

I also 100% agree about Preistland too, best option at the moment and keep him starting!!!

Fals wasn't poor, it was always going to be tough for a 20 yr old against a south sea Island team, I thought he looked for the first time his age, not bad at all just not destructive, but he wasn't given a platform to attack from the tight five mind.

Roberts is proffiting from a poor season and people underestimating him I think, he is getting down the 10 channel well and offering a little rugby in wider areas too, which is good.

Phillips however, too slow to the breakdown and too slow to move the ball, he tends to want to whinge to the ref too much, and against Samoa and SA we were countered trying to conserve forwards and Phillips being too slow to react, and it still stems from him not having his head up and knowing whats going on around him. No stupid boxkicks though, fare play to him!

Hook is ALWAYS poor at FB, that tackle attempt on Steyn for the try was just embarressing, head on the wrong side, wrong shoulder, eyes closed, no commitment and absolutley no chance, at least Byrne wouldve clotheslined him or something. His positioning is also ropy at best, he tends to drift and ballwatch.

wales606 wrote:
Phillips made some good breaks, he also dealt well with some bad ball (particularly off the lineout) his passing still isnt quite good enough, but his decision making is improving (bar one stupid run that got turned over)

Agree, Phillips is crucial to us and the way Gatland plays. His defensive work around the breakdown is tremendous. Although he is slow on occasions to get the ball away, he needs to start. I would not liked to have seen Knoyle playing behind that pack today.

A wins a win. We should now progress to the quarters, where it's ip for grabs. It was always going to be a battle and for long periods we played in samoa's hands.
Halfpenny didnt put a foot wrong when he came on and is naturally more suited than hook. I thought again johnathon Davies made a few errors. Roberts was good. I hope hook and Danny aren't out too long. We can now use the squad v namibia.
I agree with an earlier post. Think turnbull should have gone.
Also. Well done Lloyd burns. 3rd cap and did what was asked.
Why isn't knoyle being used from the bench. I know the bench is a little inexperienced, but why take players to a WC if you're worried about how little they've played at test level. Still think Rees should have gone ahead of Lloyd Williams.

Oh, also

Huw Bennett

Really hope he is ok after limping off - another excellent game from him.

If Matthew Rees was fit, I wouldnt start him at the moment.

manofgwent wrote:Still think Rees should have gone ahead of Lloyd Williams.

Not if you had seem Rees's performances for the Blues recently

Interesting analysis folks.
The match went more or less how I thought it would. Samoa came in hard and fast and had the momentum going into the break. They couldnt wrap it up in the first 20 of the second half and Wales did brilliantly to keep them under control.
Once that happened I knew the Welsh would close it out as long as they maintained their composure. Which they did. Island teams usually fall off that way and Wales saw them off well through not panicking. Mistakes were made but the tempo and nature of the match was always going to throw up mistakes. From both sides.
Overall, a very good win for Wales against a very good Samoan side. SA will need to show them some respect in the same way Wales did but in the end the structure should see them through as well, as will Steyns boot.

Onwards an upwards for Wales. Well done. I think you'll have your quarter final with Ireland after that and the SA effort.

Great match and well deserved.

Dominic

I don't want my SH tackling around the ruck, and he just takes the place of a forward pushing them wider, but I do agree I didn't want tot see Knoyle come on, but thats prob due to Knoyles ability than size, now if Youngs was welsh...

I definately wouldn't use my squad against Namibia, 3 or 4 key areas at best, Davies for Alunwyn, maybe Powell at 8, Knoyle and 1/2p at FB, but if the game is secured I'd have no problem ringing the changes eatly 2nd hals, Burns, Geth, Jones, Hook at 10 etc...

Taylorman did the Welsh support surprise you ? and I agree with your analysis.

Wales 606

Bennet was good against SA but he is back to hisself today, lineout and scrum struggled partly due to him, he was energetic but ineffective at the breakdown, and when he carried on the rare occasion he was old fashiond on his own and turned over.

Ps Rees hasn't been playing for the blues, hasn't started a game yet and only gets cameos either game won or game lost, not shown anything yet due to those around him being too strong or weak.