England not living up to their potential

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14965366.stm

James Haskell says players who are letting England down at the World Cup must be singled out in team meetings.

I would have thought that would be No1 on the list.

yup, pointing fingers and hurling accusations is sure to get the team fireing.

you've won the hard one v argentina....no need to panic now...games against 'smaller' nations are always tricky....just prepare properly and get yourself sorted for quarterfinal and possible semi v ire/wales....hopefully ireland will meet u there

It's ironic, because I think it's obvious that the area where players aren't pulling their weight is at the breakdown. One of the primary goals of a backrow forward.....? Compete at the breakdown. Haskell's position....? Backrow forward. Hmmmmmm........

That being said, I do think he's been outstanding in this tournament thus far, and should be the starting 8.

What he actually says is

"The days of brushing it under the carpet are gone. It has got to that stage, got that serious.

"It starts with identifying individuals. You only get one chance at a World Cup, so faffing around is not the way forward."

"That will come out from our meetings. We will have some tough video sessions on Monday or Tuesday. That's how it should be.

"areas we need to improve, who's not working hard, who's not trusting it (the system)".

"People have got to start pointing some fingers and saying 'This is not acceptable'."

"Johnno is not happy, the coaches are not happy - the players need to look at themselves and realise they are not working as hard as they should be.

"People should be excited about this team, excited about our performances, but we are letting ourselves down. We are stuck in a bit of a mire.

"Look at the good sides - they have that control. Whatever happens, you feel they are going to win. With England at the moment it is, 'This could go either way'.

"We are not in control and there is uncertainty which makes everyone go: 'Christ what's going on?'."

"You can't even begin to play your game if every time you do something there's a penalty.

Note: He never excluded himself.

Given the pointless stupid penalties given away I think he's right. It's been going on for long enough now that if players don't stop it they should be dropped. We've built up the squad enough to do that now I think

I think Stevens and Hartley let themselves down today .Stevens gave away 4 possibly 5 penalties and Hartley needs a hearing aid.They were much better when Croft replaced Moody and Foden needs to learn to pass instead of tacking the contact nearly everytime.

"England not living up to their potential"

Dejavu 2007.....

Another final appearance on its way?

I can understand the current bunch not playing expansive Rugby they just have not got the players to play that way. the lack of basic disciplin is unnaceptable at world level and if w carry on like it we will be on a plane home. 10 pens in the first half is unnaceptable

NWW
The team IS trying to play an expansive game plan, as can be seen by them taking the oppotunity to spin the ball wide even in their own 22. And it works - look what we did to Australia and Italy last season by being adventurous.

The problems are:
1 - Attempting to clear rucks while committing the minimun number of players - sometimes they get it wrong and a lack of bodies mean that the ball is slowed down.
2 - As you point out, the giving away of stupid penalties. We always seem to get pinged for offside in the first couple of minutes, and we also got pulled up twice for crossing because of misunderstandings in the backline. As for our inability to bind properly at the scrum...

Give away that many penalties agaisnt a team like Georgia, who play relatively unadventurously but control the ball quite well when they have it, and we are starved of both possession and territory.

One issue now is that we have a reputation for giving away penalties at the breakdown, refs are more inclined to ping us even in cases where our players aren't actually committing an offence (Shaw got penalised for handling in a ruck despite the ball coming off his foot, and Hartley was on his feet when he was yellow carded).

I wouldn´t get too carried away. England are often slow starters but usually get things right at the business end of the tournament. Hammering the likes of Gerogia or Romania won´t win you the World Cup. Clicking at the right end of the tournament and saving your best till last is what it´s about.

England were lucky to beat Argentina but if they beat Scotland then mission accomplished and they can play either France or NZ.

Fact is you can't win the World Cup in the Pool Stages, it's just about getting out of them. If there are any problems (and I think we know the England have some big ones) at least you have time to work on them. If thing's are still the same after the Scotland match then I'll be worried about our chances of progression, but for now I don't think there's any need to panic.

I don't buy into this business that if a side did well in a competition four years ago that the same will happen now.
England have done well in the past because they played well and deserved to get into the finals
And if they want to get into this years final then they will need to play to the best of their ability because at the moment there are a number of sides putting in far better performances.

dummy_half wrote:NWW
The team IS trying to play an expansive game plan, as can be seen by them taking the oppotunity to spin the ball wide even in their own 22. And it works - look what we did to Australia and Italy last season by being adventurous.

The problems are:
1 - Attempting to clear rucks while committing the minimun number of players - sometimes they get it wrong and a lack of bodies mean that the ball is slowed down.
2 - As you point out, the giving away of stupid penalties. We always seem to get pinged for offside in the first couple of minutes, and we also got pulled up twice for crossing because of misunderstandings in the backline. As for our inability to bind properly at the scrum...

Give away that many penalties agaisnt a team like Georgia, who play relatively unadventurously but control the ball quite well when they have it, and we are starved of both possession and territory.

One issue now is that we have a reputation for giving away penalties at the breakdown, refs are more inclined to ping us even in cases where our players aren't actually committing an offence (Shaw got penalised for handling in a ruck despite the ball coming off his foot, and Hartley was on his feet when he was yellow carded).

My thoughts on the issue are as follows. And by the way I am not writing to annoy or argue with anyone. So please dont start writing harassing replies, I have no interest in replying to trolls.



The problem is that England don't want to adjust from their phase play bosh it up the middle game plan even if it is not working.

England miss having a tactician on the field like MJ.

It was obvious to many of us watching the match vs Georgia that the Georgians were more than a match for England up front, in fact they were unlucky not to be getting more change out of England's eight as Kaplan was very lenient in his ruling over England killing ball, but when England moved the ball wide they were a class apart and Georgia could not answer what England could offer in back play.

maestegmafia

England's bosh it up the middle as worked and worked well for England,so why change something if it is working.

I would also agree that this type of game can be a bit boring at times, and i do think that England are trying to change. But in my opinion England need to change as a team rather than a team of individuals.(mat banaham trying those one arm passes out of the back door).

England need to look forward to the next game and put right the wrong/s of this last game.

I admire Haskell's honesty but I'm not sure the press is the right place for it. I don't disagree with him in substance, more the approach.

I do think England still have a bit to show, but that's no bad thing. Look at Ireland. They've played utter toilet for most of the last 12 months and then bang, big performance against Australia puts them back on track. England, despite not playing to their potential, have still settled Argentina and got a bonus point win against Georgia. I suspect a bonus win against Romania is also coming.

Yes, on the performances so far a fulling firing Tri-Nations side would have beaten you. But on the other hand, I'm pretty sure England would have raised their game for the occassion. Sometimes sides can drag other sides down. We saw Tonga do it to NZ, Japan and Canada do it to France and the USA do it to Ireland. It happens, games get scrappy and coaches make substitutions. These games often lack the intensity needed for sides to reach their potential.

England are still very much in the reckoning. Tweaks rather than wholesale changes are needed.

Watching the Italy v Russia game today, Lynagh said he thought Haskell's & Flood's comments were fine, he was actually quite welcoming of how they expressed themselves and said it was pretty refreshing. Dallaglio and Care also said they had no problems with it.

of course Dallaglio and Care didn't.... cos if they were there they would be saying the same thing

Squad needs leaders who are prepared to tell it how it is. I'm all for it.