The last in the line of poor Scottish Fly halfs?

Fly half has been a problem position since Gregor Townsend hung up his boots. Over the last decade we have had Phil (Good)Godman and "Desperate" Dan Parks, 2 nicknames that don't exactly encourage optimisim or consistancy. However something unusual seems to be happening at the moment at both Edinburgh and Glasgow.

It started with Ruaridh Jackson coming of age this season for Scotland in the 6N and while he was at the RWC in New Zealand his younger deputy at Glasgow Duncan Weir has really thrown down a marker, such a marker in fact he has almost single handedly scored all of Glasgows points this season. Certainly from the boot he seems to be a much safer option at 10 than Jackson.

However by all accounts in the 6-18 win over Aironi Weir put in a brilliant shift and claimed the man of the match Accolade.

It seemed to be a reoccurring theme in Italy over the weekend with young talented Scottish fly halfs securing the man of the match accolades. Harry Leonard did the same as Edinburgh comfortably saw off Treviso who massacred the Dragons last weekend and put over half a century of points on the Welshmen.

I guess the point of this article is taking into account Jackson as the incumbent 10 for Scotland and with 2 talented youngsters waiting in the wings for their chance, are the days of Scotland being devoid of talent at 10 finally over? Are Dan Parks and Phil Godman the last of their line in terms of Weir, Jackson and Leonard leading the way forward in this years 6N? Or will Robbo's conservative nature prevent him from trying these youngsters out?

Scotland need to just throw these guys in at the deep end, what have you got to lose. Young guys will step up to the plate if you give them a chance and don't crucify them if they make one mistake.

10 has been a massive problem for Scotland which is highlighted by the fact that such a limited player as Parks could rack up as many caps as he has got. I could probably put a list of 9 or 10 Welsh fly halves I would select before him.

Robbo just needs to put some faith in these guys.

Hopefully they are indeed the last of the line, altho I wonder whether Robbo's inherent conservatism will see him place his faith in youth alone? You can also add Sam Hidalgo-Clyne to the up&coming group: SH-C - he's spposed to be a very talented lad

doctornickolas wrote: I could probably put a list of 9 or 10 Welsh fly halves I would select before him.

I'm going to call you on that one, I can think of 5 and that's it, Ceri Sweeney isn't allowed as Parks is keeping him out of the Blues team.




Duncan Weir looks the mutts nuts, got a great future ahead of him, gametime is going to be his biggest problem though with Jackson at the same club.

Sam Hidalgo-Clyne: what a brilliant name!

Duncan Weir looks an excellent outside half, does all the basics well and made a great break when the Ospreys visited Firhill the other week. He's quicker that you'd expect him to be from looking at him.

I have said for a long time that Duncan Wier looks the real deal, I would have him in front of Ruaridh Jackson any day. The kid looks years ahead of his age and will probabaly ber the stand out no. 10 in Brtish and Irish rugby within the next decade.

<I could probably put a list of 9 or 10 Welsh fly halves I would select before him.>

Doc,

That is definately one you are going to be called on, I can't think of 10.

As for the Scotland No10 shirt Jackson does impress me and it he can develop then it will be good for Scotland.

All of these would get in the team before Parks if I was picking it

Stephen Jones (Scarlets)
Rhys Priestland (Scarlets)
The Bachelor (ITV)
Nicky Robinson (Wasps)
Dan Biggar (Ospreys)
Jason Tovey (Dragons)
Matthew Morgan (Ospreys)
Ceri Sweeney (Blues) - The Blues look a much better team with Sweeney there in my opinion.
James Hook (Perpignan)


So there's 9 without up and coming youngsters like

Shingler (London Irish)
Steffan Jones (Dragons)

Doc,

Parks is keeping Sweeney out of Blues side
Morgan not proven at Regional level yet let alone International


Agree on Jones, Priestland, Tovey,Robinson and Biggar.

Hook and Batchelor not sure.

I reckon Parks would have slotted most those kicks Jones & Hook missed in our close games.

From a Scottish perspective I would take Hook over Parks at 10 any day of the week.

Not wanting this to turn into another Hook for 10 debate but I am one of those who has never been convinced by Hook at 10 and certainly not XV.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Not wanting this to turn into another Hook for 10 debate but I am one of those who has never been convinced by Hook at 10 and certainly not XV.

I would say the 2008 Wales Grand Slam was built aroun Hook's game style at 10. Particularly turning the English over at Twickers, his MOTM performance pretty much secured that win single handedly. Back on topic though please....

Yes back on topic, I think it was my fault we strayed.....

I see no point in Scotland continuing to pick Parks.

Scotland have several younger guys who will provide a much better platform for the backs to work off. But they need the game time. Yes there may be times when the exuberance of youth may cost you a game now and then but surely that's a small price to pay to build for the future.

Scotland have a dire try scoring record at the moment and I lay a lot of that blame at Park's door.

Robbo does seem to prefer to play the steady rather than the exciting but it's not as if it's been hugely successful. So why not throw the dice ......

doctornickolas wrote:I see no point in Scotland continuing to pick Parks.

Scotland have several younger guys who will provide a much better platform for the backs to work off. But they need the game time. Yes there may be times when the exuberance of youth may cost you a game now and then but surely that's a small price to pay to build for the future.

+1 To be fair, these guys haven't really been available till now, but their selection going forward is essential

doctornickolas wrote:Scotland have a dire try scoring record at the moment and I lay a lot of that blame at Park's door.

Some for sure, altho I don't think our selections at 12 have helped much in that regard either

doctornickolas wrote:Robbo does seem to prefer to play the steady rather than the exciting but it's not as if it's been hugely successful

We all know Robbo to be conservative, but actually I think much of he problem must be laid at the door of the attack coach, Gregor Townsend - great (and unpredictable) player that he was, he doesn't seem to be able to instill that in the players

doctornickolas wrote:Robbo does seem to prefer to play the steady rather than the exciting but it's not as if it's been hugely successful. So why not throw the dice ......

Well he played Ruaridh Jackson when Scotland played at Twickenham last season and gave him the nod for the England v Scotland match in the World Cup, so it's not as though he hasn't given youth its head at all.

I think it's too early to tell whether or not we have a top class solution at 10 yet, but the signs are very good indeed that we're going to very shortly have some good options.

As most of you know, I'm a stickler for selecting players at international level based on merit. The good news is at the moment the first choice pick would have to be Duncan Weir, no question. Hopefully, when Jackson is fit, Lineen can try him at 12 with Weir at 10. Obviously Morrison is there in case it doesn't work (and it might not), but it has to be worth a shout.

It'll be a huge shame if Leonard is jettisoned for the HC. His kick for the try against Leinster showed real guts and vision for a debutant, and to follow that game up with a MOTM performance away in Italy, proving himself a decent goal kicker, is not bad for two performances.

Based on merit, Parks would struggle to make the squad. At last.

The way Weir is playing at the moment I doubt Jackson will come straight into the team for the game against Bath. I suspect he'll remain on the bench if fit and given time towards the end. I agree that a 10 12 combination of Weir Jackson could work, but it's up to Lineen to make that move. The number of players coming through at 10 is promising but they can't all be given international experience at the one time. They'll have to get used to coming in and out of the Scotland squad until one of them stakes his claim.

Are you sure it's not a poor pack that is making the fly halves look bad?

OK Scotland have some star forwards and a class back 3 at times, but maybe their lack of depth in the squad is an issue.

westernosprey wrote:Are you sure it's not a poor pack that is making the fly halves look bad?

OK Scotland have some star forwards and a class back 3 at times, but maybe their lack of depth in the squad is an issue.

Scottish pack is usually pretty strong, westernosprey, perhaps you're thinking of another nation?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

westernosprey wrote:Are you sure it's not a poor pack that is making the fly halves look bad?

OK Scotland have some star forwards and a class back 3 at times, but maybe their lack of depth in the squad is an issue.

Scottish pack is usually pretty strong, westernosprey, perhaps you're thinking of another nation?

Scotland have never had a poor pack in my lifetime. Names like White, Taylor, Hines, Smith and Bulloch all hint at a strong pack and it has been strong for some time.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Scotland have never had a poor pack in my lifetime. Names like White, Taylor, Hines, Smith and Bulloch all hint at a strong pack and it has been strong for some time.

Hmmm, we went through a patch in the 90's post Calder et al and pre- Murray, White and Taylor when our pack was pretty average.

The 1996 and 1997 5 Nations packs were dreadful. Dean Richards at one stage pretty much marched our pack about 30 metres all on his own. A memory that has unfortunately stuck with me.

Think Stewart, Ellis, McKenzie, Reed, Smith, Cronin (towards the end) - pretty poor forwards by international standards.

Even in 1999, when the won the 5 Nations, the pack was pretty ropey. Tom Smith and Doddie Weir were beacons amongst dross in the mid to late 90's. Thankfully the likes of Gordon Bullock, Scott Murray and Jason White were not too far away.

doctornickolas wrote:All of these would get in the team before Parks if I was picking it

Stephen Jones (Scarlets)
Rhys Priestland (Scarlets)
The Bachelor (ITV)
Nicky Robinson (Wasps)
Dan Biggar (Ospreys)
Jason Tovey (Dragons)
Matthew Morgan (Ospreys)
Ceri Sweeney (Blues) - The Blues look a much better team with Sweeney there in my opinion.
James Hook (Perpignan)


So there's 9 without up and coming youngsters like

Shingler (London Irish)
Steffan Jones (Dragons)

This was a thread about Scottish fly halves.
How and why did it turn into a thread about Wales, FFS?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Sam Hidalgo-Clyne: what a brilliant name!

He is definitely the best Spanish fly half that we have in our national youth team.

Why not try Weir at 10 and Jackson at fullback?

Glas a du wrote:Why not try Weir at 10 and Jackson at fullback?

No...!

This is the last thing they should do... They have a few decent young players in one position let them figh it out to get recognition.

Same with the scrum halves and its worked well for the scots, blair, lawson and cusiter are all good players.

Its inside center they really have to worry about. Lamont is a good stand by, but he is no great center. The Scots need to find one quickly to partner Ansbro.

To start another similar debate to the above, lets ask the Doc if he could name 10 Welsh inside centers better than Lamont....?

Lamont is half decent at 13 though.

He is good at 13, he's not bad a ten, but he makes Jamie Roberts style of play look creative.

Morrison is the only half decent 12 in scotland... and he really isnt up to much. Shame as the Scots have had some wonderful inside centers in the past.

If anyone knows anyone who should be in the reckoning then put a name forward ?

How's Weir's tackling, is he a 15/16th or whatever material.

I really dont think you can build strength and depth by converting one player to a different position

George Carlin wrote:
How and why did it turn into a thread about Wales, FFS?

it hasn't, 3 or 4 posts don't equate to an entire thread, so stop crying and discuss Scottish flyhalves.

Turkster wrote:

George Carlin wrote:
How and why did it turn into a thread about Wales, FFS?

it hasn't, 3 or 4 posts don't equate to an entire thread, so stop crying and discuss Scottish flyhalves.

Thread's over Turkster. Thanks for your worthless contribution, however.

he says after breaking in to a long line of posts about Scottish flyhalves to have a cry about something completely different, seems your contribution was a wee bit more worthless than mine Georgie.

maestegmafia wrote:He is good at 13, he's not bad a ten, but he makes Jamie Roberts style of play look creative.

Morrison is the only half decent 12 in scotland... and he really isnt up to much. Shame as the Scots have had some wonderful inside centers in the past.

If anyone knows anyone who should be in the reckoning then put a name forward ?

We don't need to try to force players into unfamiliar positions, there's plenty of talent coming thru in all back line positions - were just going to have to be patient

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:We don't need to try to force players into unfamiliar positions, there's plenty of talent coming thru in all back line positions - were just going to have to be patient

I know what you're saying about playing players out of position, but what are the chances of Glasgow playing Jackson at 12 and Weir at 10? At least this would get two excellent players on the pitch and get the necessary experience for Jackson at 12. I think Weir's too small for 12, but Jackson could be excellent there.

Turkster, it may not be a bad idea, but I'm not really sure how good Jackson is or will become. I think we'll end up seeing the 10 shirt occupied by Weir or Leonard (with Hidlago-Clyne as an outside possibility), with Matt Scott at 12

Turkster wrote: he says after breaking in to a long line of posts about Scottish flyhalves to have a cry about something completely different, seems your contribution was a wee bit more worthless than mine Georgie.

Disrespected by you. Whatever will I do?

I know, I'll continue not giving a cr@p.

I think you're struggling to grasp the main point, which is that you don't actually seem to know anything about Scottish fly halves. You wouldn't know Harry Leonard or Sam H-Clyne if they fell on you. Most people would be embarrassed to be getting chippy on a thread like this if they were staggeringly ignorant about its subject matter, but props to you for sailing on regardless.

George, your sole contributions to this thread are 1. moaning about Welsh flyhalves being mentioned a day earlier and 2. mentioning what a great spanish name a players got, are you really contributing at all? why don't you stop bitching and get on with it? I came on this thread to learn and all I see is you crying about nothing, grow up or bugger off.

Come on guys. This is my thread. Cut this crap out!

Back on topic. Weir had a good game on Sunday although he did have a few nervy moments kicking from hand. He always surprises me with how short his run up for penalties/conversions are. Even with his effort from 61m he took two steps and wasn't far off. Big boot for a wee man!