Now Johnson is gone, who should be the next England Manager?

First topic message reminder :

After posting a discussion topic earlier on the subject, now seems to be the right time for a poll. I hope I've pulled out all the names that were put forward and discussed, sorry if I have missed any.

OK Mystie, lets look at this another way then.

Lets say that MJ wasnt being pushed out (likely as well). Do you not then think that it takes a very strong personality to put his hand up and say 'Look, i am just not good enough to lead this team'?

Is he not then saying i will stand aside for the good of English rugby and allow a better person lead them to potential glory? Personally, if this is the situation then i admire someone who puts the benefit of a team in front of his own personal glory.

The smaller man, IMHO, will stay in the position earning loads of money and not functioning properly for the simple fact of personal glory and to line his own pockets.

I just don't know anymore. I suspose the one advantage of Mallinder is he watches Jeff rugby week in, week out. He'll have a really good idea of the best young English talent. I think he would form the best possible England side, just hope he doesn't have any mares like Scarlets last night...

i think its a firegone conclusion , Mallinder is gonna be the man- fingers crossed. hopefully he will be given a chance .


Eirebilly talk is all cheap for my money, actions speak louder. Andrews has nothing to do with johnson. But at the end of the day i dont agree that he should leave- not sure who is better than him that is also english. he learnt alot and if he really wanted to keep the job and tried to saty on baord- surely he would have grown into something speacial!!

Johnson isnt a money lining type of person- I am sure he did the best he could ,. and does in all situations. But he has now quit, and if we end up GOING FOR a forign coach that will only be there to line his own pockets . THEN HOW has MJ been honarble. How has his resignation helped out ENGLAND!!!

mystiroakey wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Sorry Mystie, but MJ had to resign. He had no other alternative. Rob Andrew was never happy with the fact that Martyn Thomas wanted him appointed and never stood by him.

Had he have chosen to stay (like a real man as you say) he would have been fired in my opinion. MJ didnt quit in my eyes.

So you think he was pusjed out then?

Look we dont know what happened- But iu find it astonishing how we can say the real man is the one that leaves, yet andrew isnt for staying on. I like MJ, i wanted him to stay. I am very indifferent about rob andrew. But the TRUTH of the matter is- there isnt a good v evil going on here. Just a couple of people that havent done there jobs well enough. One that is staying on, one that had quit. Dont have an idea how people can say that MJ is a real man after he quits the position. If he quit because he felt he was going to get sacked then thats defeatest. If he quit because he cant be bothered then thats not fullfilling what he set out to!, if he quit because he wants to do something else that also doesnt make him to be a real man, no just a floater!

Or if he quit because he felt England didn't get the results they should have and he shouldered the blame for that... just one example.

Youve just listed those reasons to push your idea as fact when in reality there are many reasons for and against.

"Or if he quit because he felt England didn't get the results they should have and he shouldered the blame for that"


If you feel you havent done a goiod enough job and resign thats all well and good BUT IT DOEST MAKE YOU A REAL MAN!! as quoted lol-


i havent pushed ANYTHING as fact- i have stated clearly that we dont know what happened- I have only ever piut another side to the statement that was put on here that MJ IS A REAL MAN. never said he is or isnt- just put up the other side to the argument.

As i said Mystie. If MJ stopped because he didnt think that he was good enough take England further, do you not think that is a very decent thing to do? I honestly cant see how that is being a small man at all.

I think that he had the potential to be a very good manager for England. He more than anyone, would have realised and learnt from his mistakes.

Do you like Rob Andrew is his function? Do you think that Rob Andrew is the way forward? Does it not strike you as a bit weird that all of the free, top managers are distancing themselves from the England job?

mystiroakey wrote:"Or if he quit because he felt England didn't get the results they should have and he shouldered the blame for that"


If you feel you havent done a goiod enough job and resign thats all well and good BUT IT DOEST MAKE YOU A REAL MAN!! as quoted lol-


i havent pushed ANYTHING as fact- i have stated clearly that we dont know what happened- I have only ever piut another side to the statement that was put on here that MJ IS A REAL MAN. never said he is or isnt- just put up the other side to the argument.

so by your reasoning, MJ isnt a real man, but andrew is?

nathan wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"Or if he quit because he felt England didn't get the results they should have and he shouldered the blame for that"


If you feel you havent done a goiod enough job and resign thats all well and good BUT IT DOEST MAKE YOU A REAL MAN!! as quoted lol-


i havent pushed ANYTHING as fact- i have stated clearly that we dont know what happened- I have only ever piut another side to the statement that was put on here that MJ IS A REAL MAN. never said he is or isnt- just put up the other side to the argument.

so by your reasoning, MJ isnt a real man, but andrew is?

nope not at all

What do you think about Mallinder nathan? Do you think that he is the right man for the job?

I am not tht convinced that he will make a good international manager to be honest. Not yet anyway, maybe after a couple more years and a bit of sucess with Saints and he will be but i think that its too early for him.

eirebilly wrote:What do you think about Mallinder nathan? Do you think that he is the right man for the job?

I am not tht convinced that he will make a good international manager to be honest. Not yet anyway, maybe after a couple more years and a bit of sucess with Saints and he will be but i think that its too early for him.

I'm not sure, the biggest problem for me were the background coaches, and not MJ himself (although MJ did state he would of kept them, not sure if he's just being polite) Other than roundtree i would have changed them all.

If we do get Mallinder i hope they let him choose his own coaches.

MJ to me was a problem nathan. He seemed to have a problem in being the manager and not one of the boys.

I think that Mallinder is more of a manager than MJ was and i also hope he gets to pick his own coaches if he is made England manager. I just think that its still a wee bit early for him to be an International manager.

eirebilly wrote:MJ to me was a problem nathan. He seemed to have a problem in being the manager and not one of the boys.

I think that Mallinder is more of a manager than MJ was and i also hope he gets to pick his own coaches if he is made England manager. I just think that its still a wee bit early for him to be an International manager.

i'm hoping (expecting) there will be a different atmosphere in the England camp after all of the media attention they got at the RWC. A lot of the players should be better for it, hopefully they'll just get there head down for whomever comes in.

I do believe MJ was getting better, if you look at the win ratio this year.

nathan wrote:

eirebilly wrote:MJ to me was a problem nathan. He seemed to have a problem in being the manager and not one of the boys.

I think that Mallinder is more of a manager than MJ was and i also hope he gets to pick his own coaches if he is made England manager. I just think that its still a wee bit early for him to be an International manager.

i'm hoping (expecting) there will be a different atmosphere in the England camp after all of the media attention they got at the RWC. A lot of the players should be better for it, hopefully they'll just get there head down for whomever comes in.

I do believe MJ was getting better, if you look at the win ratio this year.

Just realised how wrong that sounds lol

I think that he was learning the trade very well and i would have liked to see him take England to the next RWC

The media storm that surrounded England at this RWC was seriously poor. I cant think of any other team that came under as much scrutiny as England.
As an Irishman i was even embarrassed for the England team, everything that they did was blown way out of proportion.

nathan wrote:

nathan wrote:

eirebilly wrote:MJ to me was a problem nathan. He seemed to have a problem in being the manager and not one of the boys.

I think that Mallinder is more of a manager than MJ was and i also hope he gets to pick his own coaches if he is made England manager. I just think that its still a wee bit early for him to be an International manager.

i'm hoping (expecting) there will be a different atmosphere in the England camp after all of the media attention they got at the RWC. A lot of the players should be better for it, hopefully they'll just get there head down for whomever comes in.

I do believe MJ was getting better, if you look at the win ratio this year.

Just realised how wrong that sounds lol

eirebilly wrote:I think that he was learning the trade very well and i would have liked to see him take England to the next RWC

The media storm that surrounded England at this RWC was seriously poor. I cant think of any other team that came under as much scrutiny as England.
As an Irishman i was even embarrassed for the England team, everything that they did was blown way out of proportion.

Really glad to hear this, i was beginning to think i had a victim complex! I really thought there was a concerted effort to disrupt the England camp - admittedly made a lot easier by the players idiocy. Seems we're only liked/tolerated when we're rubbish. For my mind i cannot fathom why this was the case though, we were never a serious threat to win it.

I'm not entirely convinced by Mallinder, but i think he could be a decent coach under McGeechan as manager. I know these mix and match set-ups often backfire but it seems to me that most people working under Geech work better as a result.

Shame Mallet has ruled himself out, he'd have been my first choice - good blend of management and coaching skills. I suppose that's a question as well, can we pick a guy before we know what the hierarchy will be?

mystiroakey wrote:

nathan wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"Or if he quit because he felt England didn't get the results they should have and he shouldered the blame for that"


If you feel you havent done a goiod enough job and resign thats all well and good BUT IT DOEST MAKE YOU A REAL MAN!! as quoted lol-


i havent pushed ANYTHING as fact- i have stated clearly that we dont know what happened- I have only ever piut another side to the statement that was put on here that MJ IS A REAL MAN. never said he is or isnt- just put up the other side to the argument.

so by your reasoning, MJ isnt a real man, but andrew is?

nope not at all

I understand what you're saying mystiroakey - so what ARE your thoughts on MJ? Did he flake or 'man up'?

mystiroakey wrote:

gcBlues wrote:Sean Edwards has had his say and it's spot on, in my opinion. It's here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15787751.stm

Although, the most interesting bit is at the bottom:

Edwards also criticised RFU operations director Rob Andrew, who was Johnson's line manager, yet refused to take responsibility for England's World Cup performance at a news conference on Wednesday.

"Rob Andrew has the air of a man who either is or thinks he's in charge," Edwards added. "And in that respect shouldn't he perhaps think about his own position, even if someone else isn't about to do it for him?

"Meanwhile, big men, like Johnson, take the rap."

Too true and maybe highlights a reason as to why only one person has openly stated they'd want the job? Rob Andrew has overseen 3 coaches in 6 years...that's not good enough, that's verging on what the WRU used to behave like.

""Meanwhile, big men, like Johnson, take the rap.""


look erm not being funny but big men(real men) dont give up- MJ could have stayed on and turned it around- but he quit. I reakon most fans would have said- ok fine no problem, he is learning, he can come good!!

Martin Johnson was big enough to shoulder the responsibility for Englands failire at the world cup and chose to do the hounourable thing by falling on his sword.

HOwever it doesnt suprise me that there are people who think like Squeeky or Sepp Blatter this week, that their own importance is such that they refuse to do the decent thing despite the damage it causes. We see it on this board and in business everyday, JOhnno should be applauded for his stance.

jeas i would love sepp to go- however MJ i think could have stayed on. NO reason for england to keep chopping and changing. Anyway the guy has gone and hopefully mallinder will do well. However not sure why we need to applaude people for quitting- I think you just want an argument for the sake of it. The type of people we want to leave dont. Sadly the person that could and should have stayed didnt- ironic- but no- dont applaude someone for failing- lol

mystiroakey wrote:Yes Gatts whateverf- i take it you are from the quitting mentality, anyway you can take my comment anyway you want to. I havent judged him, just offered a point of view that because someone walks and takes the rap doesnt make him a man- which is what the original poster said- I dont judge anyone on here- yet you the ironic gatts. decides to say we cant jusge anyone we dont know- then in the next very sentance judges someone. Not sure how stupid someone can be in fairness. All you ever do is judge people you dont know.. Time to listen to your own advice

Priceless!

The vice that is oakey's brain strikes again

Are you sure you aren't Sepp Blatter?

Ten weeks till the start of the six nations. still no CEO, No coaches, No idea who is in the EPS, no idea who will pick teh EPS, nobody to decide who should pick the EPS. tick tick tick.

SCW idea on sky that England should put in a caretaker till next summer was a transparent bid for the high performance job. To leave things hanging until after the six nations would be a disaster for England, Theyy need sombody soon.

Peter De Villiers!