Ulster Squad for Glasgow

First topic message reminder :

Forwards
Paddy McAllister, Callum Black, Tom Court, Adam Macklin, Declan Fitzpatrick, Jerry Cronin, Andi Kyriacou, Nigel Brady, Lewis Stevenson, Johann Muller, Dan Tuohy, Tim Barker, Neil McComb, Michael McComish, Pedrie Wannenburg, Willie Faloon, Chris Henry, Robbie Diack

Backs
Paul Marshall, Ian Porter, Ian Humphreys, Paddy Jackson, Nevin Spence, Luke Marshall, Ian Whitten, Darren Cave, Craig Gilroy, Simon Danielli, Andrew Trimble, Adam D’Arcy


Despite their inclusion in the squad it seems that Court and Trimble will join Ferris and Best in being spared this one. Great to see Luke Marshall back in contention and i do hope we see him get gametime either here or agaisnt the scarlets.

from that squad (and bearing in mind most reports think Trimble and Court wont feature) i think we will go

1. Mcallister
2.Brady
3.Fitzpatrick
4. Muller
5. Tuohy
6. Diack
7. Henry
8. Wannenburg
9. Marshall.
10. Humph
11. Gilroy
12. Spence
13. Cave
14.Danielli
15. D'arcy

I would actually rather see;

9 Pienaar
10 Humphreys
11 Trimble
12 Wallace
13 Cave
14 Gilroy
15 Terblanche

Our biggest problems are at 10, 12 and 15. Danielli is also no longer up to scratch. The return of Wallace and Terblanche should go some way towards solving two of those issues but we have no real alternative to Humphreys!

I'm this close to wanting Pienaar to switch to 10, I swear. But I know we need several bonus point wins in both the Heineken Cup and Pro12 to get us back into contention and one thing Pienaar does give us from 9 is control. With him taking our kicks at goal, Humphreys will be under less pressure- his pace and handling is key to getting the backline back into business.

Our ambition is to win silverware this year and yet we have been far short of our potential. We must do better. The Amlin may be our best chance. We are a better side than we have shown and I can see our form turning itself around but it may be too late to catch up in the league unless we take the Scarlets Munster AND Leinster over the next month.

Didn't see it but it sounded like a typical rain-soaked scrap at Firhill. At last I got a prediction right, well done Glasgow. Good result, and given that Glasgow and Ulster will likely be vying for a league place come the end of the season, good to deny the losing bonus point.

As to the question above about Weir, in my view he's in poll position for the Scotland 10 jersey. He's played well this season.

fES,

a bit scrappy although Glasgow made all the running - as they should have. very few chances but Lemi and Nathan combined very astutely for the only try. Wee Dunky was sound and John Barclay looked back to his (almost) best.

Well sorry to have to tell you this Notch, but it's going to be an 8 try bonanza draw next week - 3 points each

Hehe. It would be VERY worrying if we can't win next week. No disrespect to the Scarlets who are well capable of beating us home or away, but we're expecting Ferris, Best, Afoa, Pienaar etc. to be back in the 23 whilst they have a lot of good players away with Wales. It should be something (hopefully) like our strongest vs. a weakened Scarlets.

I'd say Alarm Bells would be ringing if we didn't win handily, but alarm bells are already ringing. That Glasgow side is better than they showed last night but on the night I thought they were very poor, especially in the second half, but we spurned chance after chance to put them away in the second half and eventually they punished us. So we can only say we were worse because we are not taking opportunities when we are in the ascendancy. We are not putting sides away.

Are you trying to persuade me, or yourself? On paper you're right. The Scarlets rarely read it though

Dunky made a few mistakes mind. I think Ryder had a great game (as usual). His solo turnover made inside our own 22 when we were under pressure was good to see.

Standulstermen wrote:Dreadful Ulster. If we dont have Ferris, Pienaar etc to dig us out of a hole we are poor. Changes needed in coaching and approach.

Humph misses 9 points -unnaceptable

This season is becoming a farce and perhaps showing last season as a bit of a fluke. Unless the Ulster fans and senior management are shook out of apathy this dross will continue.

Yeah its hard to pick out the positives. There is no gameplan other than lets give the ball to Humphreys and see what he does. Our backplay was awful for the 3rd week running. Ihumph is too deep and everyone else is too flat and we can't execute a basic pass or utilise an overlap.

We were smashed breakdown, the lineout was a shambles and Marshall's service was far too slow, in part because his forwards weren't protecting him. There were countless unforced errors across the board. Cave better hope Kidney wasn't watching that.

We desperately need to change our coaching set up because high quality players are looking very poor right now.

Going to watch the game again guys and then I'll try and give player ratings/review. What did you think of Faloon btw?

Mixed bag I thought Rory. He definitely showed up a few times in attack, running good lines of people shoulders. He won a good turnover knocking the ball out of the glasgow no 8's hands but other than that he didn't have much influence. Diack had his moments too but the reality is we were beasted too often at the breakdown and we struggled to produce quickball due to glasgows counterrucking.

It's hard to judge players when they haven't played in a while but for me neither Faloon or Diack did enough to force their way back in. That said Wannenburg had a poor game at 8.

Have only watched the first half so far and both Danielli and Fitzpatrick have given away 2-3 penalties apiece - Glasgow in control and defending strongly when required.

Danielli was a shambles....again...

Cant wait for Pienaar to be taking the kicks again, Humphreys has let the side down a bit in the last few matches. He missed an absolute sitter against Leicester in the HC from in front of the posts which would of made it 12-12 and I think we may still of got something out of the game if that had happened.

Last night they werent easy kicks but I'd back Pienaar to be landing these.

roddersm wrote:Mixed bag I thought Rory. He definitely showed up a few times in attack, running good lines of people shoulders. He won a good turnover knocking the ball out of the glasgow no 8's hands but other than that he didn't have much influence. Diack had his moments too but the reality is we were beasted too often at the breakdown and we struggled to produce quickball due to glasgows counterrucking.

It's hard to judge players when they haven't played in a while but for me neither Faloon or Diack did enough to force their way back in. That said Wannenburg had a poor game at 8.

I actually was impressed with Faloon. He was a bit rusty I thought yes, but he looked aggressive and more physical than he has been in the past. He added a lot to the Ulster attack (not saying a whole lot as our attack in general is pretty poor right now) and was a general nuisance for the opposition. I don't think Wannenburg played well at all, and Diack was decent but has to show more. Part of that could be to do with the fact he is an 8 not a flanker. I think Faloon should be back on the starting team though. Ferris, Faloon and Henry would be a very good backrow.

Thought Spence shown why he should be starting. He is so strong and very quick, and is a threat every time he has the ball. He is still wasted at 12 however, as he seems to be primarily used as a crash ball merchant there. He needs to play 13 again, where his attributes really shine.

Happy with the Glasgow set-piece overall. Applied pressure on Ulster when the hit was balanced and pinched a couple of lineouts. Poor old Ryan Wilson had hands of lead and couldn't carry at all, but Harley tackled strongly and Barclay bossed the contact area. Good for Welsh and Low to get a run-out as they both come back from injury too. Not a great deal in the backs, but the conditions didn't warrant putting the ball thru hands that much

Court- Seemed to have the upper hand on Cusack to me but was fortunate to get a penalty against Low i thought.
Kyriacou- this is the 2nd or 3rd shocker this season. Should be 4th choice for me
Fitz- Difficult to say. He won a few and lost a few.
Muller- Lineout was poor but i believe Kyri must shoulder the blame. Rucks werent cleared out anywhere near well enough.
Tuohy- See above. Bar one good carry i dont think he was great
Diack- One decent run and handoff aside he was poor
Faloon- probably the best of the pack. scrapped well i thought
Wannenburg- not great
Marshall- im not his biggest fan but he had to go digging a lot due to his forwards poor clearing out
humph- needs dropped, pronto
danielli- needs dropped and not played again imo.
Spence- Marshall needs to come in now with Paddy returning when fit.
Cave- poor game from him but he was due one. still currently our best 13
trimble- mixed bag. some lovely takes coupled with the miss on nathan for the try
d'arcy- at fault for the try but i feel for him given the little rugby he has played. still far more potent in attack than our other options. If terblanche has as good a boot as reputed he will lose out though

Just watched the game again and I thought it was a good game by Faloon, he was a great scavenger and pounced on any loose ball or capitalised on any mistake that Glasgow made, as a true 7 should. He offered great support and an attacking option, which is something Ulster could do with right now. To me, he has to start. I rate him highly and think we need him. I also think Diack shown glimpses of what he can do. He is not a flanker, but a specialist 8 and I rate him higher than Wannenburg.

Spence also should start at 13 again. To me he is a much better player than Cave, which is a shame because Cave is also a fantastic player. I just think Spence has more potential and has such a good workrate. Also, I think it is time to move Pienaar to 10..

Cant agree on any of that last paragraph Rory. Cave had a poor game but has outperformed spence all season.

Nevin showed how he should be used when he got front foot ball and made some yards through the tackle but that happened once in 80 mins. Pienaar at 10 will further block Jackson.

Im not convinced Jackson is the 2nd coming or anything but i do think the sooner he gets consistent exposure to pro rugby the better. I would bet within a couple of seasons he would be an infinitely better option than iHumph.

Marshall is slightly different in that Paddy is still and excellent player. That being said he is out until january so lets get him in and see what he can do.

Danielli needs gone as well. At this point im not certain he offers more than Gaston, Cochrane while he offers considerably less than Gilroy and Trimble and Spence.

Jackson is getting gametime- at under 20 to have started a handful of Pro12 games and made your Heineken Cup debut is getting gametime alright! This is not a good time to blood players, I think McLaughlin appreciates you bring players into a winning team not a team struggling for confidence.

I think Humphreys played not too badly but kicked terribly at posts. His kicking for touch was fine and he rescued a few Marshall hospital passes. He is standing too deep in attack and our backline is flat- we are set up to kick, not run, and we have no Plan B. I can't see a change at 10 bringing a change of tactics though. I would have some serious issues with how our backline is (not) being coached.

Early in the season we tried to play a very expansive style of rugby which didn't quite work when results turned against us, and the coaches have just taken that and thrown it out the window. Given we are widely reckoned to need 10 points against Aironi to have a chance get out of our HEC pool the flair needs to come back.

I'd like to see Luke Marshall start our next game at 12, despite subpar cameos from him earlier in the season. I'd like to see the return of Pienaar to 9 and Humphreys to return to the gainline.

When you consider the welsh attitude towards young players like North, Faletau, Tipuric, etc Notch we are quite backwards. Jackson does need more gametime but i agree it wont happen until the new year when i fully expect us to be out of the Heineken. I actually think when a team is underperforming it is easier to come in as the expectation is lower but it depends on psyche i suppose.

Luke Marshall is our best 12 after Paddy and although last night was too soon for him he does need to come in. I actually dont think we will see him used mind you as he isnt in our HEC squad. I agree though Pienaar is so important but it is depressing how reliant we are on him. Had he been playing last night i feel fairly confident we would have won. If (as geoff mentioned) we havent signed him up yet then someone needs beasted at the top level.

Standulstermen wrote:Cant agree on any of that last paragraph Rory. Cave had a poor game but has outperformed spence all season.

Nevin showed how he should be used when he got front foot ball and made some yards through the tackle but that happened once in 80 mins. Pienaar at 10 will further block Jackson.

Im not convinced Jackson is the 2nd coming or anything but i do think the sooner he gets consistent exposure to pro rugby the better. I would bet within a couple of seasons he would be an infinitely better option than iHumph.

Marshall is slightly different in that Paddy is still and excellent player. That being said he is out until january so lets get him in and see what he can do.

Danielli needs gone as well. At this point im not certain he offers more than Gaston, Cochrane while he offers considerably less than Gilroy and Trimble and Spence.

He has indeed outplayed him, but how many matches has Spence played in his position (13) this season? I can think of one. He is being used wrongly, as a crash ball merchant. If we go back to last season, he and other young players such as Gilroy and D'Arcy were lighting up the Ulster backline. We need to see these three starting once again I think.

Yeah, but Jackson isn't as good as those players Stand. Thats the simple truth people seem to want to ignore.

I've been reading reports of him struggling to impose himself on games for the Ulster Ravens. He's not a young guy like Craig Gilroy, George North, Toby Faletau who is already at this level. He's not some BOD-like prodigy. He's a talented guy who will be a good player for us, and gametime will see him improve, but he's not at the standard we need him to be before he becomes our first choice outhalf.

Thats fair enough Notch (i agree with you regarding he isnt the messiah) but the sooner he is exposed to this level the better. I do think it will happen (probably after january) this season.

Spence played twice at 13 against the Ospreys and against Dragons. In both games Marshall was the better player but injuries and McLaughlins conservative approach havent helped. That being said with marshall not in the HEC squad will McL play him next week... i doubt it.

That leave Spence and Cave but who do you play where? Both are 13's

For me, it is one or the other. The way I look at it, when Wallace starts, Spence should start too. When Marshall starts, so should Cave. Mixing experience with youth (I know Cave is young but he has been around for ages). Eventually I think Marshall and Spence shall be the partnership for Ulster in the midfield.

I agree with you eventually Rory but for the next two HEC games Spence and Cave are the only two centres available from those four

Isn't Marshall back from injury Stand?

EDIT: Sorry, forgot he isn't included in the HEC squad.

It's silly that we don't have Luke Marshall in the squad- I hope thats a reflection of his injury situation. We have no direct replacement for Wallace, the Spence experiment is in jeopardy. The injury to Paddy Wallace has been an even bigger blow than I first thought- hope to God he is available for the visit of Leicester in January, but we need a couple of BP wins with a pretty unbalanced midfield before then!

We have to start creating chances. But I can't see where that invention is going to come from with some very rigid and over-simplified backs moves, Spence/Cave in midfield and our back three not really getting into the game.

Marshall can't be drafted in until after the pool games, no?

Yep thats it Rory.

Again i do think it reflects badly on Mclaughlin. He prefers brute force and ignorance over subtlety which i think is outdated. What i would say is that Spence hasnt become a bad player overnight and again i think his form is due to poor coaching (Doak in this instance).

I don't think so. If he did he wouldn't have Paddy Wallace as nailed on first choice.

I think his poor form is due to the absence of the aforementioned player. His limitations are exposed in the 12 jersey more so than when he is outside a second playmaker.

Paddy is an irish international and a seasoned, experienced player for Ulster. It is an automatic pick. I do think McLaughlin has shown his colours in this regard by preferring Spence to Marshall at the start of the season.

Either way i do agree Mclaughlin isnt the main problem, a backs coach is. That being said i remain to be convinced that he is the man to take us forward.

I don't think Spence has been poor.. I think he hasn't been as effective as last season definitely but he has been solid as always, has an incredible workrate and breaks the gainline on a consistent basis. He is however being used as a crash ball merchant, which means his attributes aren't being used properly and he can't play his type of game.

No, I think we should be assessing who else is available at the end of the season and whether we can afford to bring them in.

We've spent heavily on the playing staff so its a question of is there any money left for the coaching staff?

I like McLaughlin as a coach but he's a one-man show. The men around him are useless. The days of one coach leading a team to glory are over.

On paper we SHOULD be a very attack-minded team, with some extremely creative players to back that up. We have Pienaar, Humphreys, Wallace, Cave, Spence, D'Arcy, Gilroy, Trimble, Marshall.. we should be really threatening the opposition with those players. Honestly, I think we are lucky to have some of that talent. It does make you look to the coaching.

The biggest waste of space is DDoak imo and that has been muted for a good while now.

Muller is doubling as a forwards coach and Captain which i think may be detrimental.

If we consider that Wannenburg and Daniellis contracts will both be up this year and we can only replace one of them with an NIQ maybe there will be a bit knocking around for a coach. It is an imperative.

Geoff was saying that we are struggling to attract you IQ players for the backrow. We really need to get someone decent next season. Go all out for Ruddock if he is at all keen. It will require Humph snr to work some magic but surely in order for us to challenge we need to maximise the talent of Spence, marshall, Gilroy, Gaston, nelson, jackson. otherwise we will have another 10 years of the same nonsense,

Yeah, but lets not give up on the present to foster the future. I don't look at age. Our best players should play.

Wannenburg, Daniellis and Pienaars contracts are all up at the end of the season btw.

Jeez you would hope it is a given that we would renew Ruan's contract. Didnt geoff mention he was keen to re-sign? That is a no brainer.

I genuinely think we need coach/es that have never played before. The whole setup seems to be far too heavy with old boys to be healthy

Depends if they decide we need a top coach or not.

I think the most likely thing is we retain Pienaar (if he wants to stay) and continue with McLaughlin due to not being able to get a better coach on the remaining budget.

we definitely do need a top coach. Whether it is for Mclaughlin is incidental. He isnt the main problem to my mind but im not certain he is the answer either.

Doak moving on has to be priority number one. We seem to be draining the talent/natural ability out of our younger players (the majority of whom are backs).

Im not sure what or who the answer is but if Humph Snr can turn up with the players he has then i think he should be able to find a good backs coach.

I should add that i think what most fans want is to see action being taken. To see that the management of UR from top realise that something is amiss and are trying to address it. The same old guff is spouted out after each poor game to the extent that it becomes meaningless and if it is sincere then the fact that we can identify these areas for improvement and yet not improve them over 6/7 weeks means that the right men arent in the job

I think we have been improving though- in the pack. That may just be down to a core of experienced players up front but our pack were outstanding in the Heineken Cup.

Our backs are getting worse- well not so much worse, as we become more and more conservative. And last night our lineout was an absolute nightmare.

In my opinion the coaches are trying to get the basics right before trying more elaborate attacking patterns especially away in bad weather. The fact our basics were so poor against Glasgow leaves a lot of doubt in our minds.

As I say, we have no choice but to go all-out for the bonus point win against Aironi. But we started the season playing expansive rugby and moved away from it due to a lack of basic skills/confidence.

McL made his name as a skills coach. The cardiff game this season was excelent in terms of skills.

The game i think were we really let ourselves down in this regard was against the Dragons but we dont gain anything by going into our shells and if the coaches need to be told that then we are in trouble.

yes of course the pack is the foundation and it is ridiculous given how imperious our lineout was against Leicester to go then to the shambles that was Glasgow but we have absolutely no idea how to attack through the backs. Given how quickly we throw the ball wide that is a massive massive failing on the part of the coaches.

roddersm wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Dreadful Ulster. If we dont have Ferris, Pienaar etc to dig us out of a hole we are poor. Changes needed in coaching and approach.

Humph misses 9 points -unnaceptable

This season is becoming a farce and perhaps showing last season as a bit of a fluke. Unless the Ulster fans and senior management are shook out of apathy this dross will continue.

Yeah its hard to pick out the positives. There is no gameplan other than lets give the ball to Humphreys and see what he does. Our backplay was awful for the 3rd week running. Ihumph is too deep and everyone else is too flat and we can't execute a basic pass or utilise an overlap.

We were smashed breakdown, the lineout was a shambles and Marshall's service was far too slow, in part because his forwards weren't protecting him. There were countless unforced errors across the board. Cave better hope Kidney wasn't watching that.

We desperately need to change our coaching set up because high quality players are looking very poor right now.

Bit harsh, Roddersm? You were missing your two most influential players (Ferris, Pienaar), Humph seems to be in something of a slump, you were playing away from home on a filthy night and Glasgow's key players are starting to stand on their feet again (Barclay, Cusiter, Weir). It wasn't a stuffing by any stretch. You'll be far better next week.

No I don't think so George. It's not the result so much as the performance. If we'd played some good stuff and lost I could live with that but the performance was abysmal. Our backplay is attrocious at times, cringeworthy even.

The effort at the breakdown was appalling. I do think Muller is stretched and too much is falling on his shoulders as forwards coach and captain.

You are right, we may well be better next week but that is part of the problem. We need to perform week in, week out regardless of who is playing.

Agree Rodders. Consistency of performance is largely down to the coaching.

Doak may or may not be the reason why the backline is performing so badly, but McLaughlin has to take responsibility for the team, including the coaches below him. Therefore he is responsible and either has to improve or face the consequences.

Glasgow 3 - 0 Ulster


21 gone, great running rugby considering the weather.

BBC Alba right now

maesteg- wtf are you on ?

roddersm wrote:No I don't think so George. It's not the result so much as the performance. If we'd played some good stuff and lost I could live with that but the performance was abysmal. Our backplay is attrocious at times, cringeworthy even.

The effort at the breakdown was appalling. I do think Muller is stretched and too much is falling on his shoulders as forwards coach and captain.

You are right, we may well be better next week but that is part of the problem. We need to perform week in, week out regardless of who is playing.

+1 for all these comments

I was watching this at home with Gibson as my guest and at times I was embarrassed by how poor Ulster were.

With all players back from injury/weddings/etc this is my team for the HEC.

1) Court
2) Best
3) Afoa
4) Muller
5) Touhy
6) Ferris
7) Faloon
8) Henry
9) Marshall
10) Pienaar
11) Gilroy
12) Wallace
13) Spence
14) Trimble
15) D'Arcy

16) Kyriacou
17) McAllister
18) Macklin
19) Stevenson
20) Diack/Wannenburg
21) Humphreys
22) Cave
23) Danielli

To be honest i wouldnt have Kyriacou near my squad. That isnt the first time this season he has had a meltdown. I recall watching a game with him doing likewise and as i recall Gusher bemoaned our shambolic lineout on the radio against Aironi.

To be honest i despair a bit for Ulster at the moment. No doubt a win on Friday will improve things but it is only papering over cracks i feel.

red_stag wrote:09 Marshal
10 Pienaar
11 Spence
12 Wallace
13 Trimble
14 Gilroy
15 Darcy

Cave is the best 13 at the club - he is the only one, other than Wallace, to give our midfield creativity - Spence to the bench. Also after that performance Terblanche is desperately needed D'arcy was awful under the high ball.