Alvarez calls out Mayweather

First topic message reminder :

http://www.badlefthook.com/2011/11/27/2589111/alvarez-vs-cintron-results-canelo-stops-kermit-calls-out-floyd-mayweather-jr-hbo-boxing

Very interesting indeed. Not sure what weight this would be at if Floyd would go up to 154 (which I don't feel he is as good at) or if it'll be at a catchweight. I can't see Saul coming down as he is quite big at the weight already.

Personally I think Floyd dances to a UD by 3-4 rounds. I rate Saul very very highly in terms of potential but I think this would be a step too far at this stage in his career.

Do you feel there is a genuine chance of the fight happening? Financially it has the potential to be the biggest ever (apart from Floyd v Manny) as Floyd is the biggest pay-per-view draw there is and Alvarez has a whole country supporting him. What do you guys think?

How do you think it would go lads if it were to happen?

Why Alvarez wants to get straight to Floyd I dunno, it's surely only money, or the possibility he genuinely thinks he will win. He's just not ready for him yet and may as well take on the winner of Cotto/Marg for me, which is a better fight as he would probably win it but be pitted in against a tough opponent.

Pac would want a 150 Catchweight, Alvarez can barely make 154.

No one knows what Floyd has left. Apart from his victory over Marquez he hasn't really been tested. Mosley just couldn't do it and Ortiz never tested him so we've not seen him tested in 3 years now.

Lets assume that Alvarez thinks he can beat Mayweather, why shouldn't he go aim for a fight with him instead of going for a lesser opponent who brings far less money?

Alvarez gets stick for his opponents being poor then he calls out the best and gets stick for that?

On the otherhand it tells us everything..that two championship skilled fighters weren't able to test him..

Ortiz is poor. So since Mosley he hasn't been tested that's still 2 years.

Good enough to win a title against a respected operator..

Most poor fighters can't do that.

Ortiz isn't poor, he is a decent young hungry fighter with a lot power, quick and huge at the weight. Who does that sound like? alvarez. The same thing applies. Mosley just beat margarito (above anything saul has fought) so was more than a test. Mosley gassed vs floyd, but saul was breathing heavily enough last night and cintron wasn't making him miss. Mayweather hasn't had a lot of punishment in his career so is a young 34 year old fighter. Marquez was p4p #3 when they fought. I can't see how you can say he hasn't been tested.

Mosley coming off of his career best performance and same with Ortiz, how you can say Ortiz is poor is beyond me.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Ortiz isn't poor, he is a decent young hungry fighter with a lot power, quick and huge at the weight. Who does that sound like? alvarez. The same thing applies. Mosley just beat margarito (above anything saul has fought) so was more than a test. Mosley gassed, but saul was breathing heavily enough last night and cintron wasn't making him miss. Mayweather hasn't had a lot of punishment in his career so is a young 34 year old fighter. Marquez was p4p #3 when they fought. I can't see how you can say he hasn't been tested.

He hasn't been tested in the sense that he has barely had to break a sweat against these guys, but fact is if these guys can't even come close to him, it makes you think the guy is a tad superhuman.

Ortiz is poor his best win is over an unproven Berto. Quit against Maidana and looked awful in a draw with Peterson.

Mosley had seen better days but I'll accept he was a test and I said Marquez was a test.

I said in the last 2 years he hasn't been tested.

Ortiz isn't THAT much worse than Alvarez at this stage.

Ortiz is a lot worse than Alvarez. Maidana made him quit.

And if we're just going off of record then Alvarez best stuff was a poor performance against Matthew Hatton, a past it Cintron a past it Rhodes and Alfonso Gomez

AlexHuckerby wrote:

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Ortiz isn't poor, he is a decent young hungry fighter with a lot power, quick and huge at the weight. Who does that sound like? alvarez. The same thing applies. Mosley just beat margarito (above anything saul has fought) so was more than a test. Mosley gassed, but saul was breathing heavily enough last night and cintron wasn't making him miss. Mayweather hasn't had a lot of punishment in his career so is a young 34 year old fighter. Marquez was p4p #3 when they fought. I can't see how you can say he hasn't been tested.

He hasn't been tested in the sense that he has barely had to break a sweat against these guys, but fact is if these guys can't even come close to him, it makes you think the guy is a tad superhuman.

How will Alvarez will test him then? Marquez wasn't suppose to average about 8 connected shots a round, mosley wasn't suppose to be controlled so effortlessly and ortiz wasn't suppose to be kept away. In a way he is superhuman, he is a special fighter and it will take a special fighter to rob him of his undefeated status. The problem is there are very few special fighters to beat him, martinez and manny the only names that can come to mind over the last 3 years that would have a chance.

Berto was a fairly proven world title holder with wins over Quintana, Collazo and Urango, seems to be that you're only proven when you beat either Pacquiao or Mayweather which is absurd.

Rhodes wasn't past it he had good form going into the fight. The thing is Alvarez beat these guys and looked quite good in doing so.

Ortiz lost to Maidana and drew with Peterson.

He lost to Maidana a while ago and drew with a guy who is fighting Khan for the title next..and has won against a guy better than both of them..

Hardly damning is it...

I don't rate him his only good win is Berto who I don't rate either. Peterson is only fighting Khan because he's a mandatory and there is no one else at 140lbs for Khan.

Quitting against Maidana and drawing with Peterson is pretty poor.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Ortiz isn't poor, he is a decent young hungry fighter with a lot power, quick and huge at the weight. Who does that sound like? alvarez. The same thing applies. Mosley just beat margarito (above anything saul has fought) so was more than a test. Mosley gassed, but saul was breathing heavily enough last night and cintron wasn't making him miss. Mayweather hasn't had a lot of punishment in his career so is a young 34 year old fighter. Marquez was p4p #3 when they fought. I can't see how you can say he hasn't been tested.

He hasn't been tested in the sense that he has barely had to break a sweat against these guys, but fact is if these guys can't even come close to him, it makes you think the guy is a tad superhuman.

How will Alvarez will test him then? Marquez wasn't suppose to average about 8 connected shots a round, mosley wasn't suppose to be controlled so effortlessly and ortiz wasn't suppose to be kept away. In a way he is superhuman, he is a special fighter and it will take a special fighter to rob him of his undefeated status. The problem is there are very few special fighters to beat him, martinez and manny the only names that can come to mind over the last 3 years that would have a chance.

How will Alvarez test him? I dunno, you could argue in terms of physical size and decent speed, but don't think he will be all that much bigger or stronger than Ortiz was. He has good fundamentals and could back Mayweather up with his cagey thinking sort of style, good jab and can put the combinations together well, perhaps Floyd isn't as comfortable at 154, about all I can think of being a possibility.

Alvarez can use his size advantage something Ortiz could not do, he's significantly stronger and packs a far bigger puncher, he's better in almost every way.

Not saying he isn't better overall, but in terms of strength I doubt there's much in it come fight night, don't know about packing that much of a bigger punch, but maybe a bit harder, don't think he's actually quite as fast with single punches as Ortiz, but you are right he would be able to use his strength a bit better. To be honest against Floyd I don't think Ortiz did too badly, just got caught out not understanding how to launch the attacks by around the third round, which is nothing to be ashamed about, most people don't know how to against Floyd.

I think they are very similar, but ortiz is more awkward being a southpaw and is more aggressive and has a higher punch output whereas canelo is technically better and puts together better combo's but can be lazy. Saul doesn't actually use his jab that often, look at most of his punch stats you will see he throws few jabs. i haven't seen from alvarez that he can throw enough to win rounds vs floyd. He tires and looks lazy. If canelo misses with over 70% of his punches, he normally lands 50% in most fights, then he will tire quicker and may lose his head much like ortiz did when he found he was out of his depth

If he tires hitting Cintron in the face and not really looking as though he's expending much how is he going to do against Mayweather when he's hitting air and shoulders and being countered for every mistake he makes.

mayweather has never fought anyone as strong as alvarez. id still be extremely confident mayweather wins, but it would be a more dangerous fight than hes taken on in a long time

Still an easy fight to rubbish for the Mayweather "Haterz"

Mosley was a big guy at 147lbs and could punch harder than anyone around at 147 or 154 lbs just now.

Lance wrote:mayweather has never fought anyone as strong as alvarez. id still be extremely confident mayweather wins, but it would be a more dangerous fight than hes taken on in a long time

De la Hoya was big at the weight, ortiz weighed 164 lbs at the weight. I would also say hatton p4p was as strong as although he was smaller, so was mayweather at that time. Mosley is very strong. There is no point being strong when you can't get close enough to your opponent. Mayweather can control the range as good as anyone and has a very long reach for his height

Probably right Kev, stopped Marg with destructive shots, Mayweather took the shots from Mosley and came back incredibly fast. Mayweather has a fantastic chin in my opinion albeit it not being tested all that often, the question is can Alvarez really land to make his punching power tell? I don't really think so. He wouldn't understand how to attack someone that well schooled defensively, which is no shame even Marquez couldn't understand what way to approach him.

Think Alvarez would have to throw a lot out of the window and get rid of the stalker style that he has, because that won't work against Floyd, in truth I don't really know what would, but think he would have to adopt a bit more of a Hatton style and really push Floyd back and out of his comfort zone, given his size and strength he may have a chance with that. Don't know if he has the engine to do it though to be honest.

Young hngry lion is fast becoming one of the most overused phrases out there in boxing. Lost count the number of times I see Ortiz reffered to as such. He basically quit against Maidana and in my view took the easy way out against Mayweather. Personally I question his hunger.

Alvarez has looked much more convincing than Ortiz for me. More durable, not as vunerable, technically better. Also would have to think at a higher weight class would provide a far stener test.

I completely agree with what Colonial Lion said above regarding fans dismissing fights. It seems nowadays some fans are more concerned with how well a fight will do financially or the impact of a loss on a fighter than actually looking forward to the fight itself.

If one thinks Alvarez poses no challenge then fair enough, thats one thing. But frankly who cares whether the figt will sell more or less than another or if a loss will ruin Alvarez career and marketability etc. We are fans, not the guys managers and accountants.

I don't think he has the engine to get in Floyds face for 12 rounds. The other thing is Alvarez's chin is suspect and Floyd can bang a bit. I think he would need to rely on his size but I don't think he has the skills to pull it off. That's why I would rather see Khan fight Floyd I think he has the better chance because he uses his jab and has a reach advantage that could be crucial.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:

Lance wrote:mayweather has never fought anyone as strong as alvarez. id still be extremely confident mayweather wins, but it would be a more dangerous fight than hes taken on in a long time

De la Hoya was big at the weight, ortiz weighed 164 lbs at the weight. I would also say hatton p4p was as strong as although he was smaller, so was mayweather at that time. Mosley is very strong. There is no point being strong when you can't get close enough to your opponent. Mayweather can control the range as good as anyone and has a very long reach for his height

i think alvarez hits harder than any of those guys. but you're right it wont matter much against mayweather. personally i think flloyd would outbox him easily. but hes a more worthy opponent than ortiz for my money

manos de piedra wrote:Young hngry lion is fast becoming one of the most overused phrases out there in boxing. Lost count the number of times I see Ortiz reffered to as such. He basically quit against Maidana and in my view took the easy way out against Mayweather. Personally I question his hunger.

Alvarez has looked much more convincing than Ortiz for me. More durable, not as vunerable, technically better. Also would have to think at a higher weight class would provide a far stener test.

I completely agree with what Colonial Lion said above regarding fans dismissing fights. It seems nowadays some fans are more concerned with how well a fight will do financially or the impact of a loss on a fighter than actually looking forward to the fight itself.

If one thinks Alvarez poses no challenge then fair enough, thats one thing. But frankly who cares whether the figt will sell more or less than another or if a loss will ruin Alvarez career and marketability etc. We are fans, not the guys managers and accountants.

Manos the thing is it's all well and good living in a fantasy world where the best fight the best regardless of money or name or stage in there career. But that isn't the case. Fights like this happen because of money and whether a promoter is willing to take the risk with his young fighter.

Mayweather vs mosley/marquez/ dela hoya/hatton/ortiz, none of them landed over 20% of there shots on money. Mayweather landed over 30% on all of them and most cases landed over 40%. Alvarez isn't a pressure fighter, he doesn't waste a lot, that's why i think he will gas as he WILL waste punches vs floyd, everyone does. He didn't look brilliantly conditioned vs rhodes, gomez, hatton and cintron and they are easier targets, maybe he's carrying too much muscle or he is really weight drained. He also had a good speed advantage over every single of those opponents, something he wont have vs floyd.

also, mosley hits harder than alvarez, alvarez grinds you down and N'dou was closer to being KOed vs Brook than alvarez and hatton was tiny so should have been knocked out, he was caught cleanly enough.

prettyboykev wrote:I don't think he has the engine to get in Floyds face for 12 rounds. The other thing is Alvarez's chin is suspect and Floyd can bang a bit. I think he would need to rely on his size but I don't think he has the skills to pull it off. That's why I would rather see Khan fight Floyd I think he has the better chance because he uses his jab and has a reach advantage that could be crucial.

youve changed your tune about khan

prettyboykev wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Young hngry lion is fast becoming one of the most overused phrases out there in boxing. Lost count the number of times I see Ortiz reffered to as such. He basically quit against Maidana and in my view took the easy way out against Mayweather. Personally I question his hunger.

Alvarez has looked much more convincing than Ortiz for me. More durable, not as vunerable, technically better. Also would have to think at a higher weight class would provide a far stener test.

I completely agree with what Colonial Lion said above regarding fans dismissing fights. It seems nowadays some fans are more concerned with how well a fight will do financially or the impact of a loss on a fighter than actually looking forward to the fight itself.

If one thinks Alvarez poses no challenge then fair enough, thats one thing. But frankly who cares whether the figt will sell more or less than another or if a loss will ruin Alvarez career and marketability etc. We are fans, not the guys managers and accountants.

Manos the thing is it's all well and good living in a fantasy world where the best fight the best regardless of money or name or stage in there career. But that isn't the case. Fights like this happen because of money and whether a promoter is willing to take the risk with his young fighter.

I understand that but I think its kind of ironic that fans sit back and justify fights happening or not happening for these kind of reasons. All things considered Alvarez v Mayweather ticks most of the boxes one could want as a fight fan in the circumstances. I dont get why people look for reasons for it not to happen. I also think the impact of a loss is becoming increasingly exaggerated and overstated now, again, ironically because of fans reaction to it. Why should a loss to Mayweather potentially destroy Alvarez career? Its ridiculous. Its also inaccurate. If fans were more willing to acknowledge that Alvarez losing to Mayweather would not be devastating to his career (which it clearly wouldnt) then promoters might take more risks.

I think Khan has a great chance of beating Floyd...great jab..problem is when he's caught he throws his gameplan out of the window....

Side toward Floyd but it'd be a great match.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:I don't think he has the engine to get in Floyds face for 12 rounds. The other thing is Alvarez's chin is suspect and Floyd can bang a bit. I think he would need to rely on his size but I don't think he has the skills to pull it off. That's why I would rather see Khan fight Floyd I think he has the better chance because he uses his jab and has a reach advantage that could be crucial.

youve changed your tune about khan

I don't think he would beat Floyd but I think he has a better chance than anyone around including Pacquiao. I don't like Khan but I can't really fault him as a fighter. He's improving and he looks to take on the best around. He's changed my mind about him.