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Wlad vs Haye: Combined best wins.

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Post by GeoffSnapes Thu 10 Mar 2011, 11:42 am

I have reviewed both Wlad’s and Haye’s records and have come up with the following ‘best win’ top 20:-

1) Chris Byrd (Wlad) (Record at time of fight(s): 31/1 & 39/2/1) – Bryd is a tricky underrated former world champ).
2) Ruslan Chagaev (Wlad) (25/0/1) – Undefeated champ after convincingly defeating Valuev. Should have been a unification bout.
3) Nikolay Valuev (Haye) (50/1) – Giant world champ with a good winning record.
4) Jean Mormeck (Haye) (33/3) – Unification bout at Cruiser against ‘the man at the weight’.
5) Sam Peter (Wlad) (24/0 & 34/3) – Former world champ and undefeated in first bout. Caused Wlad also sorts of problems in first fight, but easily dealt with in second.
6) Eddie Chambers (Wlad) (35/1) – Only defeat against Povetkin and his speed was tipped to cause Wlad problems before the fight.
7) John Ruiz (Haye) (44/8/1) – Veteran former world champ was a durable fighter.
8) Lamon Brewster (Wlad) (33/3) – Wlad avenged his previous defeat to the former world champ.
9) Tony Thompson (Wlad) (31/1) – Highly tipped contender before the bout.
10) Giacobbe Fragomeni (Haye) (21/0) – Tough undefeated cruiser.
11) Sultan Ibragimov (Wlad) (22/0/1) – Hugely entertaining (not!) former World Champ.
12) Francois Botha (Wlad) (44/3/1) – Experienced South African pro.
13) Enzo Maccarinelli (Haye) (28/1) – Well rated WBO World Champ Cruiser at the time.
14) Hasim Rahman (Wlad) (45/6/2) – The former world champ looked old and past it.
15) Calvin Brock (Wlad) (29/0) – Inexperienced, but highly rated before bout.
16) Monte Barrett (Wlad) (23/1) – Decent heavy in his prime in 2000
17) Ray Austin (Wlad) (24/3/4)
18) Ray Mercer (Wlad) (30/4/1) – Veteran former world champ way past his prime.
19) Jameel Mcline (Wlad) (28/2/3)
20) Monte Barrett (Haye) (34/6) – Well experienced heavy
Thoughts anyone?

How hard can you punch?


Last edited by GeoffSnapes on Thu 10 Mar 2011, 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by samevans1 Thu 10 Mar 2011, 11:54 am

Mercer was about 200 years old when Wlad fought him!

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Post by coxy0001 Thu 10 Mar 2011, 12:03 pm

Ray Mercer, didn't bother reading past that. Apologies, but wtf?

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Post by GeoffSnapes Thu 10 Mar 2011, 12:29 pm

Fair point on Mercer, should be lower (i've adjusted it) as was well past it, but was coming of a 7 fight win streak and his defeat prior to that was a MD against Lennox Lewis. Wlad was the first man to KO Mercer, given he'd been in with Lewis, Holyfield and Holmes that gives the achievement a touch of credibility.

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Post by kevchadders Thu 10 Mar 2011, 12:42 pm

With that list Wlad has 14 out of to Haye's 6, which bearing in mind Haye has fought 26 times to Wlad's 58 fights (over double) makes sence that Wlad would have the lions share.

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Post by GeoffSnapes Thu 10 Mar 2011, 12:46 pm

Yeh, I think its about right. I may come across as anti-Haye, but thats definately not the case and I will be supporting him against Wlad and/or Vitali. I jst like to see peoples opinions on fighters. The list above for me is very interesting. Lots of names on there which people will rip to pieces, but at one time or another they have looked good or have had potential.

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Post by kevchadders Thu 10 Mar 2011, 12:51 pm

GeoffSnapes wrote: Lots of names on there which people will rip to pieces, but at one time or another they have looked good or have had potential.

Problem is with the lack of talent at heavy at lot of them would have looked good, or shown potential against similarly weak opposition. Not Wlad/Haye's fault of course, just a very poor division as we know.

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Post by manos de piedra Thu 10 Mar 2011, 2:57 pm

Assuming you are taking into account when each fought them the only really argument I would have is that Ibragimov is too low.

He was an unbeaten world champ when Wlad fought him with a solid amateur pedigree.

Think 11th is much too low and he should be top 5. Certainly ahead of Ruiz, Thompson, and Chambers anyway.

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Post by J.Benson II Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:08 pm

My top 10 would be:

1) Sam Peters (Wlad)
2) Chris Byrd (Wlad)
3) Ruslan Chagaev (Wlad)
4) Sultan Ibragimov (Wlad)
5) Nicolai Valuev (Haye)
6) Lamon Brewster (Wlad)
7) Calvin Brock (Wlad)
8) Eddie Chambers (Wlad)
9) Jean Marc Mormeck (Haye)
10) Jameel McCline (Wlad)

I decided to put Peters at No.1 since he was an unbeaten, rated and dangerous slugger when he first met Wlad and many expected him to win by KO.
Although the Nigerian Nightmare may have been significantly less skilled than Chagaev or Byrd, I feel he posed a bigger threat simply due to his power.

I didnt have Ruiz there since he already had several losses on his record and had one foot in retirement. Tony Thompson was just a sparring session for Wlad. I don't rate Fragomeni either.

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Post by oxring Fri 11 Mar 2011, 12:29 am

Ibragimov has to be higher - as in spite of the fact the fight was dire it WAS a unification bout. Ibragimov is a tricky southpaw as well - hard to look good against.

Fragomeni robber Wlodarcyzk, in a fight I watched live on Italian TV - which angered me somewhat. Wlodarcyzk was in complete control - no idea how he didn't get the nod. Wlod did the right thing and stopped Frag in about 8 in the rematch.
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Post by J.Benson II Sat 12 Mar 2011, 4:27 pm

Fragomeni robber Wlodarcyzk, in a fight I watched live on Italian TV - which angered me somewhat. Wlodarcyzk was in complete control - no idea how he didn't get the nod. Wlod did the right thing and stopped Frag in about 8 in the rematch..

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Fragomeni also got beat by a pretty poor LH in Erdei.

I thought his fight with Haye actually highlighted some of Haye's technical flaws. Fragomeni couldnt miss with jab and connected with almost everyone he threw. Haye's defence was non-existant.
If Fragomeni wasnt so feather-fisted, he most likely would taken Haye out.

There is no way that Haye can afford to be so sloppy against a Klitschko.

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Post by azania Sat 12 Mar 2011, 11:42 pm

J.Benson II wrote:Fragomeni robber Wlodarcyzk, in a fight I watched live on Italian TV - which angered me somewhat. Wlodarcyzk was in complete control - no idea how he didn't get the nod. Wlod did the right thing and stopped Frag in about 8 in the rematch..

-----------------------------

Fragomeni also got beat by a pretty poor LH in Erdei.

I thought his fight with Haye actually highlighted some of Haye's technical flaws. Fragomeni couldnt miss with jab and connected with almost everyone he threw. Haye's defence was non-existant.
If Fragomeni wasnt so feather-fisted, he most likely would taken Haye out.

There is no way that Haye can afford to be so sloppy against a Klitschko.

Precisely the problem I have with Haye. He relies on his reflexes to get out of the way of punches, but his reflexes aren't good enough imo.

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