Bath vs Leinster DOUBLE HEADER Teams/Discussion

First topic message reminder :

USING THIS THREAD FOR BOTH GAMES

So Bath went down with a huge fight last week and really put the game to a slightly misfiring Leinster "away" side. Huge performances from Louw and Caldwell in particular and the boot of Barkley giving Bath a lot to cheer about considering the doom and gloom that was felt before the game.

Leinster had a few chances to put the game beyond Bath but didn't take some opportunities they should have. Sexton put in a huge shift which steadied the ship big time, displaying great defence and game management while SOB put in some big carries and great steals.

The game ended 13-18 to Leinster, leaving the pool still somewhat open.

The return game is this Saturday in Lansdowne Rd. Bath fans are expecting the same team out as the injury situation doesn't seem to have changed where as Leinster fans are expecting their "home" team to take the field, introducing the likes of Healy, Toner, Jennings, reddan and O'Malley from the off.

How will the game go?
What are your team perdictions?
What are the vital areas between the teams?
What tactical plans need to be in place for each team?
Will this thread survive without another ROG vs Sexton cat fight?
Score predictions?

What injuries are looking touch and go?

I hate that feeling of not expecting much from your team it can be very disheartening

I imagine you will give us a go if you get good ball but I think you will find that very difficult to get. What's your lineout looking like so far this year? Or does that depend on the backrow you put out?

Hopefully it will be a good game at the least and both teams acquit themselves well. None of this hair pulling malarky! :p

Lineout has been awful, mainly because we are without first second and third choice hookers. Have used an academy hooker, 22 year old prop so far, and now we have the USA back up hooker on short loan, but obviously he needs to learn the calls etc. Hooper runs our lineout, but is our third choice lock, but captain. Yeah, work that out! Not too sure who jumps in the back row, assume it would be taylor. Im a back, so please forgive me! Skirving was a big player in the lineout last year and he has been injured most of the year.

I think the touch and go injuries are Louw, Banahan, Donald, Batty, all pretty critical.

If we get good ball, we can be a top Euro side, we really can. It wasn't that long ago that under Meehan we were taking Toulouse to the 84th minute, taking Biarritz to 75mins twice. Geech came in and said that losing games due to lack of intelligence and lack of game mgmt was to stop and that this year we would be more prgamatic. However, all of our greatest assets have been stripped, no quick ball, no offloads, no invention and all of this without a solid front five. Like trying to build a skyscraper on a mud pond!

Right, I'm off to clear all sharp objects from my desk

It's a bad tactical decision to turn away from your greatest strength and rely on one of your weakness' improving.

Didn't realise the hooker situation or how many injury worries you had. Would Barkley be your back up 10?

Bathite, I still wake up in cold sweats thinking about that Toulouse game!

Something is clearly not right with the coaching set up at Bath at the moment, I dont think the constant tinkering every game has exactly helped us either.

Need a big performance from Louw, Attwood etc. As you say Pete, I hope its a good game to watch, entertainment hasnt been one of Bath's strengths this season!

I still blame Jonny Faatmaintainu for it. If you look at the clip, he comes wading into a ruck like a gormless fool and kicks the ball to Toulouse. Counter attack down the field and then penalty time.

I think you're right with the coaching, I miss Meehan, was such a lovely fella as well. Is he still unemployed?

The stupid donkey, nothing worse than some oaf losing hard earned ball by shin-ing it back to the opposition!

I think he went back to Oz didnt he? He would be perfect as our attack coach now, I think Brad Davis is being spread too thinly with both defence and attack.

Still, the LV cup campaign is going well!

Where are you guys in the AP at the mo?

Too low! I dread to think, about 9th I reckon, but there is only 5/6 points between 10th and 2nd last time i checked

Teams being announced today guys. Last chance at predictions for starting XV's

I'm going for

Flatman
Biller
Wilson
Caldwell
Attwood
Louw
Mercer
Taylor
Claasens
Donald
Woodburn
Barkley
Hipkiss
Banahan
Abendanon

I predict:

Healy – Cronin – Ross
Sykes – Cullen
O’Brien – Heaslip – Jennings
Reddan – Sexton
Fitzgerald – Darcy – O’Malley – Nacewa
Kearney

Strauss – VDM – White – Toner – McLaughlin – Boss – Madigan – Carr

Joe could surprise by going for Boss, McLaughlin and VDM to start, but this is what I’ll hang my hat on.

No place for McFadden even on the bench?

I have to say Leinster are starting to look really good. The way they play is magic to watch...the running lines,support play and offloading, its so simple but brutally effective. It's so southern hemispheresc in its clinicalness and simplicity.

Its hard to see anyone stopping them to be honest, particularly if they get a platform up front and dominate the breakdown.

Bathite

I think you might be right there, certainly can't complain about that team given the players to choose from.

Actually Rodders, forgot Fergus. I’d say he’ll make the bench instead of Carr.

But Carr would be a cracking option to bring in after an hour if things start to open up.

Bathman_in_London wrote:Bathite

I think you might be right there, certainly can't complain about that team given the players to choose from.

Maybe Beech to sneak a start and Carraro involved, but I don't think we can play Biller Donald and Carraro in the same 23, as all non kolpak foreigns, might be wrong though

It shows how strong you guys are when you can forget to put the messiah mk II on the bench whilst the Messiah mk I is out injured!

It also shows how difficult it is going to be for Carr to get any gametime at all. Horgan is to come back too!

How are the Bath injuries holding up?
Any more news on them?

I'd have Carr in at 23 instead of McFadden but that would be the team I would predict also.

Again Boss, VDM, Strauss and McL could all be part of the "bruising away team" that Joe likes to field

They don’t seem to expect Horgan to make it back for the pool stages of the cup as he wasn’t listed in the HC squad. Not sure when he’ll be back although Boyne said (having spoken to him) that he’s not finished.

Wonder if Conway will make it into the squad at all. Would at least like to see him back in the league, according to the reports I’ve read from the B&I cup he was playing very well.

Id say toner will start and Browne on the bench I don't think Sykes is up to HEC rugby at least not yet.

Yeah was thinking about Conway too, then you have Dave Kearney. There seems to be a wealth of talent in that back 3, if you include McFadden as well.

I'm sure Horgan will be back, I mean he was arguably the form wing in Europe for a spell last season. He was never that quick anyway so theres no reason why he can't play for another couple of seasons.

Bathite wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:Bathite

I think you might be right there, certainly can't complain about that team given the players to choose from.

Maybe Beech to sneak a start and Carraro involved, but I don't think we can play Biller Donald and Carraro in the same 23, as all non kolpak foreigns, might be wrong though

I think you're right, a real shame as I rate Carraro (I think he qualifies on residency next year so he won't count as overseas) but I think a hooker who has played in the position in the last couple of years is a priority!

Horgan was among the best in Europe last year for his restart work alone. You always knew Sexton was kicking to his wing, the opposition knew it too, didn’t stop him taking pretty much every restart that came his way! Love Shaggy.

What injury does he have?

Is that a trick question?

Just wondering if its something that might limit his ability when he gets back fit e.g. leg or shoulder injury.

Oh right, it's a knee ligament injury.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/magnersleague/2011/0617/ireland_horgans.html

That'll not affect Horgan..he could never run anyway!

Seriously though it's Horgans offloading, strength and footballing brain that are his greatest assets so I'd be confident he'd still be extremely effective when he returns. I'm sure he could play to >35 if he wanted.

15 Kearney
14 Nacewa
13 O'Malley
12 D'Arcy
11 Fitzgerald
10 Sexton
9 Reddan

1 Healy
2 Cronin
3 Ross
4 Cullen
5 Toner
6 O'Brien
7 Jennings
8 Heaslip

16 Strauss
17 Van der Merwe
18 White
19 Browne
20 McLaughlin
21 Boss
22 Madigan
23 McFadden

Is what I'd go with. Possibly Boss to start and Redser to come on when things loosen up. Tight call there. And a few other positions where you could swap bench and starter.

Conway is hurt. But D Kearney and Carr would be in most other teams 23. We are just poxed lucky with the squad we have.

It’s a shame that despite our astute signings over the last few years, we manage to sign a player that can’t make it into the HC team in the one area we needed to strengthen most this season.

Other than that our squad is class though.

We were WAY OFF!!

15: Rob Kearney
14: Isa Nacewa
13: Fergus McFadden
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Isaac Boss

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Damian Browne
6: Kevin McLaughlin
7: Sean O'Brien
8: Jamie Heaslip

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Cian Healy
18: Nathan White
19: Devin Toner
20: Shane Jennings
21: Eoin Reddan
22: Ian Madigan
23: Eoin O'Malley

LEINSTER: A Team to face Llanelli

15: David Kearney
14: Darren Hudson
13: Brendan Macken
12: Colin O’Shea
11: Andrew Conway
10: Noel Reid
9: John Cooney

1: Jack McGrath
2: Aaron Dundon
3: Jamie Hagan
4: Ben Marshall
5: Mark Flanagan
6: Ciaran Ruddock CAPTAIN
7: Jordi Murphy
8: Leo Auva’a

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Tom Sexton
17: Jack O’Connell
18: Jordan Coughlan
19: Conor Gilsenan
20: Luke McGrath
21: Cathal Marsh
22: Andrew Boyle

Conway not hurt. Carr must be travelling to Bath as 24th player if not in the 23. Cements White over Hagan too.

Is that the same team that started away to Montpellier?

Gotta think that if there was no project player position and just 6 NIQs then we would have signed someone better.

Not liking all this negativity over bath making me nervous.

I imagine you could well see that team Jen. Maybe not toner

Yeah our back 3 talent is sick.

Kearney
Nacewa
Horgan
Fitzgerald
Carr
Kearney Jr
McFadden
Conway

We are blessed guys, truely blessed.

Yeah good post, must be bringing McFadden and Carr then or possibly Kearney Jr.
No Dom Ryan still either

Mickado wrote:We were WAY OFF!!

15: Rob Kearney
14: Isa Nacewa
13: Fergus McFadden
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Isaac Boss

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Damian Browne
6: Kevin McLaughlin
7: Sean O'Brien
8: Jamie Heaslip

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Cian Healy
18: Nathan White
19: Devin Toner
20: Shane Jennings
21: Eoin Reddan
22: Ian Madigan
23: Eoin O'Malley

Hey! I was playing all the right notes. Not necessarily in the right order.

No Jennings or O' Malley disappointed with that.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I
No Dom Ryan still either

He is defo hurt. Ankle again. Out til after Christmas

LEINSTER TEAM

15: Rob Kearney
14: Isa Nacewa
13: Fergus McFadden
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Isaac Boss

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Damian Browne
6: Kevin McLaughlin
7: Sean O'Brien
8: Jamie Heaslip

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Cian Healy
18: Nathan White
19: Devin Toner
20: Shane Jennings
21: Eoin Reddan
22: Ian Madigan
23: Eoin O'Malley

Looks like he has gone for the hard bruising away team selection

roddersm wrote:Is that the same team that started away to Montpellier?

Yeah, I think so.

It's the away selection it seems.
Some bench there all the same.

Surprising that Carr makes neither squad though, as Jen said could be the 24th man for the HC team.

Schmidt wanted to keep Hines. And Sykes doesn't seem like a very good NIQ signing. But Strauss didn't play much in his 1st season. It was only last year that he got in the team and came good. Maybe the same will happen with Sykes?

Feckless Rogue wrote:Schmidt wanted to keep Hines. And Sykes doesn't seem like a very good NIQ signing. But Strauss didn't play much in his 1st season. It was only last year that he got in the team and came good. Maybe the same will happen with Sykes?

But we had Jackman in Strauss's first year, we're a little thinner on the ground this time round.

This pack is really set up to try to hammer the Bath forwards into submission. If we do win this one, it won't be a high scorer.

So the calls

1) VDM in for Healy
2) Strauss in for Cronin
3) Browne in for Toner
4) McL in for Jenno with SOB at 7
5) Boss for Reddan
6) McFadden for O'Malley
7) No Carr in the squad


1) VDM in for Healy
Doesn't bother me much Healy is a great impact sub although I think that VDM is a worse scrummager than Healy now

2) Strauss in for Cronin
Doesn't bother me good to have a rock solid lineout for the first 60mins before the game opens up

3) Browne in for Toner
Can understand Schmidt is going for grunt at the breakdown and contact

4) McL in for Jenno with SOB at 7
Disagree with this, time and time again we see Leinster play better overall with jennings in the team

5) Boss for Reddan
Understand the physical nature of Boss is wanted before Reddan opening the game up

6) McFadden for O'Malley
O'Malley is on form, and I feel very hard done by. He deserved to be retained. Disappointing.

7) No Carr in the squad
I think he is the form winger in the team, I think McFadden should have yielded a place in the squad to Carr

Mickado wrote:

roddersm wrote:Is that the same team that started away to Montpellier?

Yeah, I think so.

It's the away selection it seems.
Some bench there all the same.

Surprising that Carr makes neither squad though, as Jen said could be the 24th man for the HC team.

Yeah it looks like thats the pattern then. I love the way this guys Schmidt rolls. He really knows how to utilise his squad. No matter who slots in where they all know their role within the system and the structures and philisosphy doesn't change. I wish to feck we could bring him up to Ulster! The guy is a genious!

6) McFadden for O'Malley
O'Malley is on form, and I feel very hard done by. He deserved to be retained. Disappointing.

The only reasoning i can think of for this is that Schmidt expects Bath to start Bananhan at centre and McFadden is that bit more physical. In theory I agree with you, but I trust Joe knows what he's doing.

I am glad he is taking Bath seriously as this selection dictates.

The game plan is fairly transparent in that he is looking to beat them up physically for the first 50/60 mins before speeding the game up into 5th gear with the introuction of Reddan and Jennings.

He will target them in the contact areas and also the scrum and breakdown. Bath don't have monsters on their team like Montpellier do and thus I feel that this strategy will work however I would have prefered Jenno and EOM in the squad.

McFadden is something of a weaklink at 13 defensively but hopefully he steps up to the plate because the 13 jersey really should be with O'Malley (who has every right to feel agrieved).

We have a mamoth front 5, the biggest we can field basically, it's clear to see where we are going to attack, can Bath withstand it?

They will need some luck I should think

Abendanon Cuthbert Hipkiss Barkley Banahan Donald Claassens Flatman Biller Wilson Attwood Caldwell Louw ©, Mercer & Taylor - Subs v Leinster - Beech Catt Perenise Spencer Beattie Cook Heathcote & Vesty

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
1) VDM in for Healy
Doesn't bother me much Healy is a great impact sub although I think that VDM is a worse scrummager than Healy now

Tackle. He's in there for his Tackle.

All of the calls are about subduing their pack. The rest (bar Carr) will be filtered in towards the hour mark to score tries.

Bit worried about their wingers "doing a Shaggy" in the air though. They must be a foot taller than our wingers combined.

Bathite wrote:I'm going for

Flatman
Biller
Wilson
Caldwell
Attwood
Louw
Mercer
Taylor
Claasens
Donald
Woodburn
Barkley
Hipkiss
Banahan
Abendanon

14/15, not too bad i'd say! How about that for a prediction!

OFFICIAL BATH TEAM

1. Flatman
2. Biller
3. Wilson
4. Attwood
5. Caldwell
6. Louw (c)
7. Mercer
8. Taylor
9. Classens
10. Donald
11. Banahan
12. Barkley
13. Hipkiss
14. Cuthbert
15. Abendanon

Bathite wrote:
7. Mercer
8. Taylor

Don't know much about these lads. What are they like? Also what's the story with Hooperman? Is he hurt? or dropped?