England vs Pakistan

First topic message reminder :

so guys, with a huge series coming up against pakistan, what do we think? In terms of the side, conditions, anything to do with this huge tour

IMO this should be the side

1.Strauss
2.Cook
3.Trott
4.KP
5.Bell
6.Prior
7.Bresnan
8.Swann
9.Broad
10.Anderson
11.Monty

however i think they will go with this side

1.Strauss
2.Cook
3.Trott
4.KP
5.Bell
6.Morgan
7.Prior
8.Bresnan
9.Swann
10.Broad
11.Anderson

The pitches that we have seen pak play sri lanka, on and previous tracks there, suggest the ball dosent spin much, and is just a batting paradie. Therefore do we really need 6 batsman plus prior, as prior is easily good enough to bat 6, and we have a strong line up all the way down. Jimmy at no 11 is no mug with the bat.

it was a slim possiblity of playing 5 bowlers, but now we cant even have that option...Prior was easily good enough to be put in the no6 position...but now we will never know...sigh....

Why are England fans so obsessed with 5 bowlers? Very few top sides have had 5 bowlers (unless they have a genuine all-rounder - neither Bresnan or Prior are one yet) and with good reason: a 6th batsman is needed far more often than a 5th bowler.

England have done so well in recent times with the main four bowlers, I can not see why they would want to change now other than the fact that they see these pitches as being decks for huge scores and the four bowlers getting too much work.

Always have Trott or KP as the occasional bowler.

Why change a winning formula?

Mike Selig wrote:Why are England fans so obsessed with 5 bowlers? Very few top sides have had 5 bowlers (unless they have a genuine all-rounder - neither Bresnan or Prior are one yet) and with good reason: a 6th batsman is needed far more often than a 5th bowler.

in dubai u need a 5th bowler more....the pitches dont turn much out there, they are just ridiclously flat, therefore the extra batsman isnt as important.

Mike Selig wrote:If you can manoeuvre the ball in ODIs you can in tests as well. Nothing a spinner likes less than being milked for 3/4 an over. Particularly if (as with Pakistan) that spinner is meant to be your main attacking threat. Morgan's footwork is good and he can hit all around the ground. I suspect as a spinner it's a bit of a challenge. Bell plays that dab sweep well, and hits down the ground well, but those are his two main shots.

As I'm sure you'll appreciate, Tests and ODIs are pretty different though - different conditions, different fields, different pressures.

So we have good players of Test spin who struggle to milk the spinners at a good enough rate in the shorter format - scoring at 3/4 an over is great in Tests, not in ODIs.

Then we have Morgan who is our best player of ODI spin. But if these UAE pitches offer a lot of turn, and with Ajmal in good form, it'll be a new experience for him - an attacking spinner getting good turn with men around the bat, as opposed to a lot of ODI spin bowling which looks to contain and may at best have one slip.

I'm not saying that Morgan couldn't turn out to be our best player of spin in Tests, it's just a bit premature to say so. But there are positive signs - obviously his ODI performances against spin, and he has only been dismissed once by a spinner in Tests - the 3rd Test against Pakistan (misread an Ajmal straight delivery).

England XI: Strauss (C), Cook, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, Morgan, Davies (W), Broad, Swann, Finn, Anderson.

ICC Combined Associate and Affiliate XI: Porterfield (C), Stirling, Coetzer, Ali, Williams, Shahzada (W), Rankin, Haq, Hassan, Viljoen, Nabi.

ICC 174-7

Good bowling so far by England. 181/8, Broad with 3-35, Finn 2-45, Swann 2-44 and Anderson with 1-40. Cricinfo doing ball-by-ball coverage.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan-v-england-2012/engine/current/match/531625.html

The middle/lower order have done well. Swann a tad expensive.

CC Comb XI 238/8 (72.0 ov) were 122/6.

268/8 A reminder of how flat these pitches are # 8,9 and 10 recording their highest FC scores.

Mad for Chelsea wrote: Wonder if England will call up a replacement, Onions maybe?

If Tremlett has got trouble with his eyes I'd say the last person you should call up is onions....

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote: Wonder if England will call up a replacement, Onions maybe?

If Tremlett has got trouble with his eyes I'd say the last person you should call up is onions....

not a bad day for england, 281 all out, wickets spread between the bowlers, reality check for how flat these pitches are.

cricketfan90 wrote:not a bad day for england, 281 all out, wickets spread between the bowlers, reality check for how flat these pitches are.

Agreed, happy to just win the series by any score-line now

jimmy got 2 wickets

bit suprsing that steve davies played as well.

How did Hassan play?

Only got to bowl 2 overs at the end of the day's play, so no report really.

But 2 tidy overs

Horrible batting effort by England, 185/8 declared, Cook top scoring on 76. ICC currently 39/4 or 'net' 135/4. Come on England!

Excellent team effort by the combined 11 with the ball, although another top-order collapse has followed. Porterfield and Saqib Ali will be disappointed, whilst Stirling isn't yet upto this standard in the longer form. The two guys at the crease now are the key, both are quality players (so was Craig Williams, who will be disappointed at his dismissal, and indeed at getting two starts but not converting).

Hamid Hassan is unfortunately out injured for the rest of the game. George Dockrell will be allowed as a full replacement.

Great performance from the ICC, England have been terrible

This Mohammad Shahzad looks like a really top player:

FC average of 70
ODI average of 43

Coetzer's out, that's a big blow. If the combined 11 can scratch a lead of 250 or so out, they stand a decent chance, but that's still some way away right now...

Encouraging from England's bowlers, despite our poor batting effort, I must say.

They're already showing a great understanding that to take wickets on these pitches you need to keep things tight (Anderson and Broad have been quite excellent, with economies of little over 2). The batting isn't a worry, we always seem to fluff it up in these warm up matches, can anyone remember the last time KP or Bell got a big score in a warm up? They seem to come to the party when the real cricket starts, but the bowling has given me confidence in us doing a decent job out here.

Still stand by my 1-1 prediction, though

Bell made a big hundred in one of the warm ups in Australia didn't he? But yeah I'm always less fussed by batsmen's form in warm-up matches, and it's good to see the bowlers getting some overs and wickets under their belts certainly.

in terms of this warm up game, and the pitches they will be bowling on, im looking for form from the quicks, the runs will come.

I'm not sure I'd be that unconcerned. It is also important for batsmen to find their feet in alien environments, feel bat on ball and get some form going. 20s or 30s (which is what batsmen usually do in warm-ups) are fine, but getting out in single figures is not a good sign...

im not sure why batsman struggled, the pitches are flatter than a pancake, and hardly spin..

maybe cos most of them have had quite a long time off.

I'm not worried about the batting because it's only 1 innings, however I would be concerned if this repeats itself in the next 3 that I think we have before the first Test. I don't think it will.

Carrot - good to hear from you - how are the animals?

Can I recommend the fascinating Hall of Fame threads? I have a feeling that Peter May could be in the next round of names for voting for entry into the 606v2 Hall of Fame - so the unbiased support of all Surrey supporters will be needed to make sure he gets elected.

Quick update. Strauss made a decent 70-odd, Trott is about 30 not out, KP did his usual warm up act of advancing down the pitch and mistiming one to a left arm spinner to be caught for 1, and Bell has just announced his arrival at the crease with a huge 6. So, a bit better from some of England's top order, though I expect they'll be much more switched on and up for it when the actual Tests roll around.

The bowlers after a lengthy lay-off looked to be in good touch and now the batsman are scoring a few in the second innings looking likely to take Eng to a warm-up win.
Strauss with a fluent 78, Trott no in the 30's, Bell with a few.

Eng 167-3 chasing 261 at tea.

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Carrot - good to hear from you - how are the animals?

Can I recommend the fascinating Hall of Fame threads? I have a feeling that Peter May could be in the next round of names for voting for entry into the 606v2 Hall of Fame - so the unbiased support of all Surrey supporters will be needed to make sure he gets elected.

Hello Corporal, the monkeys are all doing well thanks, enjoying the mild winter so far I think! I'll head over to the Hall of Fame thread but I'm afraid my cricketing knowledge starts in the late 90's so I'm not much help!

That's fine, carrot, a bit of research into those you know little about yields some fascinating insights - we've all learnt plenty!

Trott and Morgan gone, steady lads.

Eng 187/5 74 to win.

They can have bloody Morgan back

Bell gone too, in an unfortunate fashion. Bell tries to hit the ball towards fine leg, gets a top edge, the short leg fielder knocks it up and the ball lobs to leg slip.

Eng 204/6 57 to win, come on the tail.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:They can have bloody Morgan back

Morgan still has to convince me too, Ater the Asian tours, that should tell us more.

Broad with a straight six off Nabi, England now 222/6

Broad and Davies taking England ever closer.

Only a warm-up, but no one likes to lose and well done to the Associates for putting up a good fight. Two or three good performance from their lads.

Broad goes with scores level, looking for the big hit to get England home, but only succeeds in skying the ball straight to cover. Nabi picks up his third wicket. End of a nice partnership between Broad and Davies to take England to the very brink of victory.

Tim Bresnan has been ruled out of England's winter tour against Pakistan in the United Arab Emirates.

Good back up though

Really Breadvan is out altogether? Meeps
Sure they have plenty of backup in bowling with Tremlett and Finn but the depth he bought to the batting will be missed.

I was just about to post the very same thing, PSW. The honour is yours.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Really Breadvan is out altogether? Meeps
Sure they have plenty of backup in bowling with Tremlett and Finn but the depth he bought to the batting will be missed.

Very true, but like all of us, I am hoping his batting would'nt have been needed very much.

On evidence of the warm-up, it might have been

The more I think about it the more his loss will be. His bowling would have been quite effective on those pitches as the ball bacame older and England have won the 10 Tests that Bresnan has played.

Yeah, it is a big blow.

It is a blow but gives Finn a chance to step up and we have Tremlett waiting as well should he not succeed in the first couple of matches. Not worried about his batting as even though it is useful we really shouldn't ever be relying on one of our 4 bowlers to get us runs. Plus we still have Swann and Broad for that! Pleased for Davies to see us home too, I presume Prior will be fine for the Tests though.

huge blow that bresnan is out...he is very good with reverse swing, which is crucial on these pitches.

I'm sticking to my opinion that Finn is a better bet long term for England than Bresnan. So hopefully Finn can stake his claim for the permanent slot in that fats bowling trio. The thing England will miss most probably won't be Bres's batting but the reverse swing he can get with the old ball, but Anderson and Broad can do this aswell so he shouldn't be missed too much.

great chance for Finny