The Mighty Bath v Sarries

So the mighty Bath hit the road to take on those salary cap dodgers formally known as Saracens.

Bath needs two things this weekend. The first is to remember the manner of their defeat to Sarries in the home fixture, it wasn't nice. The second is to play like they did against London Irish, Momentum is the key. It was by far their best performance of the season; it was aggressive, smart rugby. The two together, would give them the mental and physical strength that they will need in order to beat the champions.

C'mon Bath, 606v2 are behind you.

Fiver says Beshocked picks option 1.....

Roddersm you got me.

Dont think Bath have beaten Sarries in their last 5 encounters. A big mountain for the Bath boys to climb.

Will I write off Bath? Course not. They have our nemesis Hipkiss in their team.

I think Sarries will win by 8 so just about above 7.

Only a fiver rodders?!

Bath were a cross bar thickness from beating Sarries back in september so with a bit of belief from the Irish game its definitely possible! Comon Barf!

beshocked wrote:Roddersm you got me.

Dont think Bath have beaten Sarries in their last 5 encounters. A big mountain for the Bath boys to climb.

Will I write off Bath? Course not. They have our nemesis Hipkiss in their team.

I think Sarries will win by 8 so just about above 7.

I knew it! ....

You almost beat Sarries at home. Much harder to win away. Of course it's possible for you to win. Just unlikely. Jokes aside it's your best chance since you last played us.

What do you think your team will look like?

Hipkiss is injured isn't he?

Can't see Bath winning this one, I'd expect Sarries to dominate in the lineout and breakdown, probably edge the scrum as well. Bath's attack hasn't flourished under Donald and under the pressure of probably the best defence in Europe I think he'll fall apart. Expect Sarries to get quite a few penalties a Bath player to be sin binned and there to be a lot of kicks to run back for the Sarries back three.

Full of jokes today eh?!

Well I'd rather be going to Watford after a decent win at home than after a loss, so even though Bath are pretty big underdogs theres no point in being too defeatist!

I'm not sure of the status of injuries etc, but I'd guess something like this:

Flatman
Batty
Wilson
Attwood
Caldwell
Beattie
Louw
Taylor
Claasens
Donald
Biggs
Barkley
Cararro
Banahan
Abendanon

Our props seem to rotate, starting and 50mins one week and sub and 30 the next, so I guess its Flats and Wilsons 'turn'. Elsewhere in the forwards, I think injuries mean it must be pretty close to that starting pack.

In the backs, I don't know what Hipkiss' current status is, but Cararro is pretty under rated and won't let anyone down and while Donald seems to have played his best games son far (Montpeiller and Irish) without Barkley next to him, I can't believe he will be rested again.

Like to hazard a guess at your team beshocked?

I'm not so optimistic, Sarries are a big step up from Irish on a good day and Irish were beyond awful last weekend.

Sarries do the boring basics very well, will win penalties and Farrell will kick them. They will defend well and it will be dull as dish water to watch.

Sarries 18 - 14 Bath

Sarries don't score a try, Bath score with Louw, but rue not converting early pressure into points, going in at HT 9-3 down

Sam I hope you are right. I think you will too.

I'll give it a shot

1.Gill
2.Smit
3.Stevens
4.Borthwick
5.Botha
6.Brown
7.Saull
8.Joubert
9.Stringer/Spencer
10.Hodgson
11.Short
12.Barritt
13.Farrell/Powell
14.Wyles
15. Goode

Stevens and Borthwick are likely to start vs their former club. I think Brits and Strettle are injured so will not feature. Farrell might be on the bench, Powell could start.

Well that would be a strong team if it is the one that is put out. Don't forget Goode was techincally Bath academy/ youth so he's another former player (sort of!).

Are you going beshocked? I was planning to head up to make it a Sarries double this season but I've got a christening instead, maybe just as well!

Bathman in London I personally don't count Goode as an ex Bath player though technically you are correct.

I might do.Undecided.

By the way what's the Eastmond update?

Saull is playing really well at the moment, be interesting to see if he can continue his recent form

Yeah, I was joking!

Eastmond came on for the last 5 mins or so against Irish, his contributions were to knock on a high kick and smother an Irish overthrow. I presume he will be on the bench again and will keep coming on the pitch late on to gain experience.

HERSH wrote:So the mighty Bath hit the road to take on those salary cap dodgers formally known as Saracens.

Hello Mr Pot, my name is Mr Kettle! It should read the original salary cap dodgers Bath, although I suppose you weren't actually braking a salary cap as there wasn't one, it was just the rest of us were amatuer

I am not making my prediction just because it's Bath, but I can see Sarries getting a comfortable win - the reason for this is that Saints are playing Quins on Friday night and I feel Saints are going to win this, therefore, Sarries will have the added knowledge that a good win will claw back the Quins lead. I did think Irish made Bath look good, whereas the defensive frailty won't be there this time round.

beshocked wrote:I might do.Undecided.

Oh go on, you'd double the attendance...

Time for Trumpton I thought you were going to rein in those kind of comments.Sigh.

At least come up with something witty and original instead of the same boring

You're right, my comment was incorrect. I meant 'double the home support attendance'.

Pot calling the kettle black. You embarrass yourself.

Yes I know Saracens have low attendances at VR. What's your point?

Was about to say that home advantage for Saracens isn't in the same league as home advantage for Gloucester or Leicester. That said, I can't see Saracens' defence rolling over, and will win on pens by about 5-7.
However, if Gill and Stevens are the starting props, I fancy Barf to make some headway in the scrums.

beshocked wrote:Pot calling the kettle black. You embarrass yourself.

Yes I know Saracens have low attendances at VR. What's your point?

Oh do calm down dear...

I think Sarries will win, but I'll be hoping that Bath can put them in their place. If it's a damp evening, Bath have the pack to pick up some penalties from the scrum and that might be enough to pin the men in black back.

I think it may be as boring as Sarries vs Glos last weekend

Bathmad that's a very fair and realistic assessment.

Flatman and Wilson are hardly the most agile props but won't let you down in the scrummaging department. Gill and Stevens won't find it easy in the scrum but should be stronger around the park.

What's the Bath lineout been like?

logansrun I don't think it will be like that.

Now that Bath have a few more options in the back row (although still missing Moody & Fearns) I fully expect Louw at openside to make an impact at the breakdown and provide a thorough exam for Saull. Beattie & Taylor plus the locks should ensure lineout possession and the scrum won't be going backwards, so overall expect the pack to be competitive.

So for Bath to get anything from the game, rests with the 10/12/13 combination starting to gel together - our back three are plenty quick enough.

I went to the Watford game last season which was a disappointing game in all respects from a Bath perspective and should have got more from that game - hopefully the Bath players will remember that.

I hope the Sarries move to a purpose built stadium goes well because VR is a dump. The facilities are not far removed from the Rec and that is saying something.....

Recwatcher I remember last season Bath got repeatedly hammered defensively. So satisfying watching Sarries push Bath so far back.

It will be interesting. I expect Hodgson to be targeted.

Agree VR is not at all great. Not as bad as Adams Park though.

Stevens in the scrum did get away with a fair bit in that game - but there was a lot of hype around him at the time with his return to the game - still disappointed he didn't stick around and pay his dues at Bath but he is a likeable guy and would always do well wherever he went. Wilson will look forward to it I'm sure but if Bath target the breakdown they have a chance.

Whats wrong with the Rec?

It's got everything you need, good views around the ground plus it has the option to stand (the true way to watch rugby), toilets, and most importantly of all lots of pubs near by the only thing missing is a world class team, but just you wait.

Perhaps a little harsh Hersh but after more years than I care to remember exposed to the elements in my seat I do sometimes wonder if my time could be better spent but then the location kicks in and I thank my stars I'm a Bath man......amen!

But being exposed to the elements is part of the fun as you appreciate what the players are going through on the field, you'll miss it when it’s gone and I can think of nothing worse than standing or sitting in a shed.

Keep Bath at the Rec.

Recwatcher Stevens didn't stick with Bath because he wanted a fresh start. The whole drug issue was obviously why he left Bath. Can't really blame him.

the only thing missing is a world class team

and a roof. When the rain is hammering down I'm all in favour of a shed. I've played in too many games where I've been soaked and cold I can sympathise with the players from a dry seat/standing spot with a warming drink in hand and several nice warm layers on.

But the MS havs a roof and it kills the atmos, and the game.

Recwatcher wrote:Now that Bath have a few more options in the back row (although still missing Moody & Fearns) I fully expect Louw at openside to make an impact at the breakdown and provide a thorough exam for Saull. Beattie & Taylor plus the locks should ensure lineout possession and the scrum won't be going backwards, so overall expect the pack to be competitive

I think the backrow is one of the reason Bath have struggled so much this season, the balance doesn't seem right. Always thought Taylor has more of a traditional 6's skill set, in fact I always thought he looked a better option at lock and at times it's almost like Bath were playing 3 blindside flankers. Even when Moody was fit and he played with Taylor & Louw there was no real ball carrying ability. Think the loss of Ferns was greater than expected.

Saracens by more than 7 for me. I thought Bath did okay against a poor Irish team at the weekend but they are nowhere near the top teams standards yet. One good thing about the LI game was that Classens looked much sharper.

HERSH wrote:
It's got everything you need... the only thing missing is a world class team, but just you wait.

Don't worry HERSH, there's one coming in February!

I'm quite surprised by some of the comments on here about the possibility of Bath's scrum causing Sarries problems. Bath certainly caused Irish problems, but aside from that every game I've seen they have been ineffectual.

HongKongCherry wrote:

HERSH wrote:
It's got everything you need... the only thing missing is a world class team, but just you wait.

Don't worry HERSH, there's one coming in February!

I'm quite surprised by some of the comments on here about the possibility of Bath's scrum causing Sarries problems. Bath certainly caused Irish problems, but aside from that every game I've seen they have been ineffectual.

More a reflection of Gill and Stevens. Stevens' scrummaging in particular has really gone backwards, really struggled in the 6N and WC in his favoured TH position. Flatman and Wilson with 2 big lumps in Attwood and Caldwell behind is a pretty decent unit.

HKC - very few scrums dominate in the league these days as refs have made them a lottery unless you have current internationals in your front row and then you get the benefit of the doubt.

I have always rated Wood and just maybe he will get selected as an England LH this time round. Young Catt at Bath has got potential and a Saxons slot can't be far off.

bathmad, I'm not being deliberatly argumentative, but whilst Attwood & Caldwell is a decent boiler room, Flatman & Wilson hardly strike me with fear. Decent on their day, but not top quality scrummagers.

In fairness to Stevens he played the bulk of his rugby last season at LH and to then be switched back to TH this season isn't the easiest as it is by far and away the most technical position, but his scrummaging can leave a lot to be desired at times, although I'd have him ahead of Wilson in the England pecking order.

Recwatcher, I totally agree that dependent upon the ref the scrum can be a lottery, but ultimately the better scrummaging sides will come through. I've not seen enough of Catt to make a proper judgement. Every game I've seen him play he was average (I thought he was very poor against Glaws earlier in the season), but enough people rave about him so I wait to be convinced!

HKC - It was Rowntree who rated Wilson and advised him to leave Newcastle when they had the kiwi TH and he came to Bath. He has lost some of his raw power this season in favour of mobility but he is still relatively young for a Test TH and that will come back and probably needs a bigger hooker than Mears beside him too.

Recwatcher - there's no doubt Wilson is a decent enough prop & he had to move from Falcons to get game time, but I just can't ever see him being truly international class. From what I've seen of him this season I agree his mobility looks better, but his day job needs to improve. I've said it for some time but Bath will not be a top side until they focus their recruitment on the front row. But I won't complain about that...