Andy Murray - I Have No More Faith

Andy here we are again. The same old problem. Cannot take the incentive in a match when it matters. In my brutal and up most honest assessment of this match was that Djokovic was lucky. That type of performance against anyone more clinical would've won resulted in a 3/4 set defeat. For me Murray had so many chances in the match to win and gave it all back. Simply put he does not believe enough he can win a Slam. For me he wasted chance after chance. I hear all this give him credit, credit for what? Tossing the match in when it was there for the taking? Andy looked so effortsly on his FH and he was bossing Djokovic all around the baseline. I cannot from this match see Andy ever winning a Slam. I am a British tennis fan, but Andy's performance in the 4th set was pathetic. You only chuck in sets when you know for sure you can take the match in the next set. To try and do that against a proven champion was very misjudged and arrogant. Credit to Djokovic yes he won the match, but it wasn't a match he deserved to win. Some of his court play was Ferrer-esc.

When Andy Finally won the 3rd set, I expected him to click into 3rd gear and take the match in the 4th, but did he? Boll0cks did he!! He gifted points like they were going to come back round. Yes he got himself back in it in the 5th, but at the expence of fatigue on Djokovic's behalf.

Great players see out matches when in control. Great players do not dip and create problems for themselves in match winning positions.

Andy has the talent to be great, but wastes it with a poor mindset.

legendkillar wrote:Andy here we are again. The same old problem. Cannot take the incentive in a match when it matters. In my brutal and up most honest assessment of this match was that Djokovic was lucky. That type of performance against anyone more clinical would've won resulted in a 3/4 set defeat. For me Murray had so many chances in the match to win and gave it all back. Simply put he does not believe enough he can win a Slam. For me he wasted chance after chance. I hear all this give him credit, credit for what? Tossing the match in when it was there for the taking? Andy looked so effortsly on his FH and he was bossing Djokovic all around the baseline. I cannot from this match see Andy ever winning a Slam. I am a British tennis fan, but Andy's performance in the 4th set was pathetic. You only chuck in sets when you know for sure you can take the match in the next set. To try and do that against a proven champion was very misjudged and arrogant. Credit to Djokovic yes he won the match, but it wasn't a match he deserved to win. Some of his court play was Ferrer-esc.

When Andy Finally won the 3rd set, I expected him to click into 3rd gear and take the match in the 4th, but did he? Boll0cks did he!! He gifted points like they were going to come back round. Yes he got himself back in it in the 5th, but at the expence of fatigue on Djokovic's behalf.

Great players see out matches when in control. Great players do not dip and create problems for themselves in match winning positions.

Andy has the talent to be great, but wastes it with a poor mindset.

I think it is understandable that you're a bit down on his chances after that match, but this year might be really good for Murray. He has a credible coach in his corner and he did show a lot of perseverance when he went through patches of bad play. Don't despair!

reckoner wrote:

legendkillar wrote:Andy here we are again. The same old problem. Cannot take the incentive in a match when it matters. In my brutal and up most honest assessment of this match was that Djokovic was lucky. That type of performance against anyone more clinical would've won resulted in a 3/4 set defeat. For me Murray had so many chances in the match to win and gave it all back. Simply put he does not believe enough he can win a Slam. For me he wasted chance after chance. I hear all this give him credit, credit for what? Tossing the match in when it was there for the taking? Andy looked so effortsly on his FH and he was bossing Djokovic all around the baseline. I cannot from this match see Andy ever winning a Slam. I am a British tennis fan, but Andy's performance in the 4th set was pathetic. You only chuck in sets when you know for sure you can take the match in the next set. To try and do that against a proven champion was very misjudged and arrogant. Credit to Djokovic yes he won the match, but it wasn't a match he deserved to win. Some of his court play was Ferrer-esc.

When Andy Finally won the 3rd set, I expected him to click into 3rd gear and take the match in the 4th, but did he? Boll0cks did he!! He gifted points like they were going to come back round. Yes he got himself back in it in the 5th, but at the expence of fatigue on Djokovic's behalf.

Great players see out matches when in control. Great players do not dip and create problems for themselves in match winning positions.

Andy has the talent to be great, but wastes it with a poor mindset.

I think it is understandable that you're a bit down on his chances after that match, but this year might be really good for Murray. He has a credible coach in his corner and he did show a lot of perseverance when he went through patches of bad play. Don't despair!

He has had 3 GS Finals to do it.

4 Semi Finals without further success.

How many chances would one need?

It was by far Murray's best performance in a big match.

He was more aggressive, played closer to the baseline and his FH for much of the match was better than Novak's.

Definite progress. I can certainly see him beating Nadal if he brings that level of intensity to their next slam match.

well, Lendl would be best placed to advise him how to take his chances I guess as he was a bit of a late bloomer

Im impressed by Murray's performance today. How many players would push Djokovic to the edge like that? There's only one and that's Federer and he's got 16 slams. Murray's in good company and it's only a while before he gets that slam, it will be either this year or next year but I think he's done a lot to convince at least me that he's a serious contender to win these events.

I agree with emancipator. I've never been so positive after a Murray slam loss. He has fallen apart in these types of matches in the past, this time he fought until the end and most of the time was mentally rock solid. A few of those set points he saved in the second set were points he simply wouldn't have won against these players in the past.

If he is that aggressive and that focussed in semis and finals against the big guys, he can beat them.

I was thinking he might never do it after the US open semi, but this was so different. He was fantastic for most of the match.

How much of this do you think is down to Lendl?

He aint retired yet and he's still improving.

Murray

I have to say I am surprised by the optimism here. At 25 this year, a seasoned pro, it is going to take a lot to convince me he can turn it around. That performance will hurt. Could've easily taken that 3rd set 6-4. Wasted far too much energy in rallies that he could've killed earlier.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:How much of this do you think is down to Lendl?

The improved attitude, the fight and the fact he played closer to the baseline is all down to Lendl I would have thought.

Hopefully Murray will keep playing this way.

LK is right. Well Murray might still win a slam but I don't understand how some can be impressed by Murray's perf today. Had he been facing Djoko 2011, it woudl have ben another 3 setter. Djoko was there for teh taking and he did not beat him.

Same story for me, especially after seeing those key agressive shots going out or in the net. He wants to but can't. Only when he saw Djoko tiring at the end that he pressed up..sorry but that was too late.

I think this was the most encouraging match I've ever seen Murray play. I sound like a stuck record, but he's never taken a big match as far as that.

Before this match he could have had a little voice in his head saying, "but when it really counted and your opponent was up for it you've never even been close" - not any more. In the past when he's won big matches he's been ahead, and he's only needed one set back in a big match for it to be over.

Think of the 2011 Wimbledon SF vs. Nadal. He was all over Nadal in the 1st set and the beginning of the 2nd until that fateful missed forehand whereupon he folded like a cheap suit. In this match he came back from a number of 'turning point' disasters like that. It's what true Champions do - although some are lucky enough to win a big one without having to do that. However, like everything else you need to learn how to do it and I would think that this match can only be a good experience, it feels like a stepping stone.

Agreed. I don't even think he blew his chances. Of the three bp's to in that final set, only one was dumped into the net when he was stretched out wide. The rest were saved with gutsy play from Novak. That was really the story of the match after the first set and a half. Both players produced the goods on the majority of the big points. Either could have won that match.

His oncourt demeanor was also much more positive. Surely Lendl must be part of the reason for that. I think Andy has a lost of respect for him and thus is able to reign in his emotions when the great Lendl is courtside. This in turn keeps him more focused.

The missed OH smash in the first game of the fourth set was the turning point for me. He had the momentum of winning the previous set and just frittered it away.

Lendl has more work to do, the but the signs are positive.

Also, players 'mature' at different times. Look at Djokovic, same age as Andy. He just started dominating last year.

It is a trade off between patience and perseverance vs results.

LK,

don't be so harsh. Take heart from this one:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A39093816

emancipator wrote:I think Andy has a lost of respect for him ...

Presume this a typo. 'lot' it should be.

He is geting a GS this year.

Look back last year in Rome. Had Djokovic at his mercy and let him off. Likewise with Nadal at Wimbledon last year. You cannot be wasteful at this level and expect to win Slams.

You have to ask yourself...why Did Murray start to play compact and agressive from 5/2 down in the 5th and not from the first point of the match?

1 - Sure Djoko was fresher and sharper

2- No other excuse. Just Murray's natural passive game. If he can win a match without taking risk, he will but only attacks when he has no other choice....and that's so wrong!

@laverfan & @legendkillar, the point is that in the past it's taken one reverse at a 'turning point' for Murray to be swooshed down the plughole.

This match he came back from set backs that would have sunk him in the past to give himself another chance. I think that's a positive.

Tenez wrote:You have to ask yourself...why Did Murray start to play compact and agressive from 5/2 down in the 5th and not from the first point of the match?

1 - Sure Djoko was fresher and sharper

2- No other excuse. Just Murray's natural passive game. If he can win a match without taking risk, he will but only attacks when he has no other choice....and that's so wrong!

Point 2 is hopefully something Mr. Lendl can see and maybe address if Murray's naturally passive game can be overridden.

luciusmann wrote:Im impressed by Murray's performance today. How many players would push Djokovic to the edge like that? There's only one and that's Federer and he's got 16 slams. Murray's in good company and it's only a while before he gets that slam, it will be either this year or next year but I think he's done a lot to convince at least me that he's a serious contender to win these events.

Agree with the sentiments here this is a much better performance against Djokovic than last year in the final. Legend, I think will come to see that as he has 24 hours or so to cool off. There is a reason Novak is #1 and Murray #4. Novak was that tiny bit better but the margin is extremely, extremely thin. If Murray hits his forehand this way for the rest of the year I think he will win a slam soon and have his best year to date.

Andy was brave enough to take on the Djokovic FH. I credit that. But when it came to serving for the advantage in the 3rd and in the 4th he threw in silly first serves and gave it right back. It was almost like he wanted Djokovic to win the match for him. There were far too many negatives than positives. Take the FH. At times it was singing. Then other times he threw in mid court garbage. Second serve. Sometimes he got the right depth, other times it came back with interest or DF'd. His volleying at times sublime and other times it was like watching someone who just started the game when it went out. Stamina wise I was impressed, but his mindset prevents him from being great. That is sad when I type this. It infuriates me.

Well at least now he's playing his "passive" game from the baseline. That's the first step towards transforming it.

barrystar wrote:@laverfan & @legendkillar, the point is that in the past it's taken one reverse at a 'turning point' for Murray to be swooshed down the plughole.

This match he came back from set backs that would have sunk him in the past to give himself another chance. I think that's a positive.

He also fought very hard 2 years ago v Federer...just that Fed shut the door then on key points.

Frankly, there was no reason why Murray did not make teh most of an ailing Djokovic.

GarthMarenghi wrote:

Tenez wrote:You have to ask yourself...why Did Murray start to play compact and agressive from 5/2 down in the 5th and not from the first point of the match?

1 - Sure Djoko was fresher and sharper

2- No other excuse. Just Murray's natural passive game. If he can win a match without taking risk, he will but only attacks when he has no other choice....and that's so wrong!

Point 2 is hopefully something Mr. Lendl can see and maybe address if Murray's naturally passive game can be overridden.

That's the big question. One can buy a slam winner coach, but can't buy a slam....in other words you can't buy a heart!

he's only recently with lendl so id say in a years time he will be in an even stronger position. any said himself that it would take time to take on board ivans ideas so hopefully for andy it will begin to show

If he finds himself in this position in a Slam again and wastes it, I will personally hunt him down and strangle the life out of him!! Talent like his does not deserve to be wasted any further!

I cannot understand fans optimism.

I can't begin to express how pi$$ed off I am right now after watching that!

Perhaps most of them are relieved that it's Novak in the final as he's the better bet while being happy that Andy didn't get thrashed and in fact came close to winning.

Lendl has only been on board for a few weeks, and yet look at the improvements we've seen:

Less negativity
Played closer to the baseline
Much quicker progress through early slam matches
Stood toe to toe with one of the guys above him
Really aggressive with the forehand
No blaming his team
Mentally much stronger (see 3 set points saved in 2nd set)

This is great news for Murray fans! I don't think I've ever enjoyed his matches as much. There are still things to work on, second serve is still far too weak, and I think he slices too much when in control of a point IMO...

But I'm really positive at what other improvements Lendl can bring given more time.

legendkillar wrote:If he finds himself in this position in a Slam again and wastes it, I will personally hunt him down and strangle the life out of him!! Talent like his does not deserve to be wasted any further!

LoL! legend can you send me the video of murray going bug eyed as you choke the life out of his pale neck. Anyway, Murray played well enough to win. As for his serving woes lets remember he has never been an overwhelming server and he was serving to the best returner in the world on a very slow hardcourt, in a tournament that Djokovic has won twice and is currently the defending champion. I think his aggression on the forehand looked a lot better. He has to get better but he looked like he is turning the corner. I still believe that he will break his duck and will be the most serious challenge Djoko faces for the #1 title. He probably will be the guy that at some point will take it away from him.

Danny_1982 wrote:Lendl has only been on board for a few weeks, and yet look at the improvements we've seen:

Less negativity
Played closer to the baseline
Much quicker progress through early slam matches
Stood toe to toe with one of the guys above him
Really aggressive with the forehand
No blaming his team
Mentally much stronger (see 3 set points saved in 2nd set)

This is great news for Murray fans! I don't think I've ever enjoyed his matches as much. There are still things to work on, second serve is still far too weak, and I think he slices too much when in control of a point IMO...

But I'm really positive at what other improvements Lendl can bring given more time.

Spot on

Would you have preferred him to lose in three comfortable sets LK?

LK, this was by MILES hs best performance in a big match against a top player.

Take heart: Federer cannot last much longer on these courts/conditions, Murray will pass Nadal soon and he almost got there against Djokovic.

I have INCREASED my probability that he will win a Slam after this.

If you have too much faith you are bound to be dissapointed and risk ending up with no faith at all. You should be more realistic and set your faith somewhere in between...

hawkeye wrote:If you have too much faith you are bound to be dissapointed and risk ending up with no faith at all. You should be more realistic and set your faith somewhere in between...

Or perhaps stop supporting a player to win and set all your energies on hating one player. That way you've got a lot more chance of being happy with the result.

Isn't that right hawkeye?

It could have been an entirely different ball game had he had a challenge left (or indeed the umpire and lines people had better eyesight) or for that matter Novak was a little more honest when it came to the lob in the 11th game of the final set.

I have yet to see a close up but from unlimited rewinds on my sky box that was very much in the lines..not even on but inside the lines. Had that point gone to Murray he would have had a 30-0 lead and all of the momentum was with him.

Now im not using it to totally discredit Novak (he put away key points when it mattered), however I do think it was perhaps the most crucial point of the entire match. And im surprised no one has mentioned it...either on here or indeed in the commentary box.

Bravo to both guys for a fantastic effort. I actually think Novak will put away Nadal with relative ease (3-1) and this will underline just how much Andy stretched him here in the semi. P

Anyone touting nonsense about Andy being to old talks garbage. Yes he is seasoned pro and 25 but athletes hit their peak at different times. For someone who is a vastly defensive player they will hit there peak when both the body and mind are in the right place. An athlete who is perhaps more aggresive i.e. Nadal will hit their peak much earlier.

For me Andy was always going to hit peak later than the likes of Nadal, Federer and I think his best years will be 24-27/28.

bogbrush wrote:Murray will pass Nadal soon.

Oh, right...Why's that then?

djlovesyou

No not like that at all. Its about being realistic. Murray was not the favourite for the match. From the scoreline it looks like it was a close match. Some would say he did better than expected. No one should complain that he didn't do well or have reasons to lose faith (as long as they had realistic faith in the first place)

Realistic for Murray is that if he produces his best he can beat the best players and win slams. Apart from 2 matches against Nadal, he hasn't produced his best in slams against the top 3... Until today.

If he can repeat that performance in these big matches, then he can win majors.

There are three guys who are more likely to bring their best on the big occasion, so expecting him to win majors would be taking it a little far... But having genuine hope that he can win them is realistic.

consigliare wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Murray will pass Nadal soon.

Oh, right...Why's that then?

Careful Bogbrush! You may have set your faith level a little high. You wouldn't want to get dissapointed and lose it all...

consigliare wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Murray will pass Nadal soon.

Oh, right...Why's that then?

Because his game is approaching Djokovic in style and standard, and Djokovic has Nadal bought and paid for.

Danny_1982 wrote:

There are three guys who are more likely to bring their best on the big occasion, so expecting him to win majors would be taking it a little far... But having genuine hope that he can win them is realistic.

Danny_1982. IMO you have a very realistic level of faith. I'm sure (if you are a Murray fan) you will enjoy his matches more than others and will be feeling quite happy about his match today. This is good. Who wants to spend precious time doing something that makes them miserable.

He might never win a slam.

bogbrush wrote:

consigliare wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Murray will pass Nadal soon.

Oh, right...Why's that then?

Because his game is approaching Djokovic in style and standard, and Djokovic has Nadal bought and paid for.

You managed to work out some amusing spin to get you off to sleep OK tonight there.

consigliare wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

consigliare wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Murray will pass Nadal soon.

Oh, right...Why's that then?

Because his game is approaching Djokovic in style and standard, and Djokovic has Nadal bought and paid for.

You managed to work out some amusing spin to get you off to sleep OK tonight there.

You don't think Nadal is owned by Djokovic?

You don't see similarities in Murrays developing game to Noles?

I don't think I'm the one dozing off then!

I'm more positive than I've ever been after a Murray semi or final loss, because he did so many things right and there was virtually nothing between them. If he'd played 1 point a touch better at 5-5 it could have been a different result.

Compare that to the 3 semis of last year or the final 12 months ago and its a huge step forward. He never looked like winning those matches.

At his best he can compete with these guys, but so often at majors he's been beaten by the occasion or a lack of bravery. Today hints that those days might be over, and I think that's quite exciting.

If you were supporting one of the players it was gripping to watch and I imagine it would been for a lot of neutrals as well. I know others think differently. It's a free world, people have different tastes, so I have no issue with that.
Anyway Murray played a lot better than he has any other time he has met one of the top three in a GS Semi or final. It still wasn't good enough though as Djokovic just seemed to have that bit more assurance that he would win. If I were to criticise it would that a number of times he lost serve just after he had broken in the game before or as in set 4 had just won the third set breaker. Therefore immediately handing back the initiative to Djokovic.
So overall disappointed but not too downhearted. Will he ever get there ? I don't know but todays effort gave me more hope than I had after Wimbledon and the USO.