Andy Murray - I Have No More Faith

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Andy here we are again. The same old problem. Cannot take the incentive in a match when it matters. In my brutal and up most honest assessment of this match was that Djokovic was lucky. That type of performance against anyone more clinical would've won resulted in a 3/4 set defeat. For me Murray had so many chances in the match to win and gave it all back. Simply put he does not believe enough he can win a Slam. For me he wasted chance after chance. I hear all this give him credit, credit for what? Tossing the match in when it was there for the taking? Andy looked so effortsly on his FH and he was bossing Djokovic all around the baseline. I cannot from this match see Andy ever winning a Slam. I am a British tennis fan, but Andy's performance in the 4th set was pathetic. You only chuck in sets when you know for sure you can take the match in the next set. To try and do that against a proven champion was very misjudged and arrogant. Credit to Djokovic yes he won the match, but it wasn't a match he deserved to win. Some of his court play was Ferrer-esc.

When Andy Finally won the 3rd set, I expected him to click into 3rd gear and take the match in the 4th, but did he? Boll0cks did he!! He gifted points like they were going to come back round. Yes he got himself back in it in the 5th, but at the expence of fatigue on Djokovic's behalf.

Great players see out matches when in control. Great players do not dip and create problems for themselves in match winning positions.

Andy has the talent to be great, but wastes it with a poor mindset.

Good article LK, but harsh

Once he broke Nole back in the 5th set, I was no longer particular bothered who won, partly because Nadal had a massive physical advantage but partly because Andy finally showed that he can mix it with his peers, when they are playing well and expectation is high on him

Bogbrush, makes a fair point. I'm not too certain where Fed goes from here and are more convinced than ever that Murray is the 3rd best in the world. This does not mean that I'm questioning the GOAT status - but Murray should be better than a 30-year old

What Andy has to do now, with Lendl, is get that serve a bit more consistent - it's as simple as that. Then the other Slams including the French and the Olympics are possible

For me, Andy's made the biggest improvement in the last 10 months since when he won his first Masters

Now there is enough time before the IW Masters to fine tune (and that is all that is needed) with Lendl and go from there

One thing the Top 4 have showed us in the last 30hrs is why they are clearly better than the rest - a gap that I think, during the next 4 years, will only be narrowed by either retirements or severe injury problems. Whether this shows how weak the others are, is another debate

So disappointed, but can't fault his effort or skill against the current best player in the world

bogbrush wrote:

consigliare wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

consigliare wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Murray will pass Nadal soon.

Oh, right...Why's that then?

Because his game is approaching Djokovic in style and standard, and Djokovic has Nadal bought and paid for.

You managed to work out some amusing spin to get you off to sleep OK tonight there.

You don't think Nadal is owned by Djokovic?

You don't see similarities in Murrays developing game to Noles?

I don't think I'm the one dozing off then!

So you're actually serious with the way it works being as simple as this?

Still deluded...And still slamless.

deeznu wrote:He might never win a slam.

This is true but if you are a Murray fan you might feel better saying "he might win a slam" as this is equally true. The only danger is saying "he will win a slam" because on days like this you might feel you have lost your faith like legendkiller...

Consigliari, it's actually obvious if you take off the tinted specs.

C'mon Tim!

I think there is a need for an article entitled "Coaching Advice For Andy's Fans".

Again I have more faith than ever that Murray can win a Slam, there are no definites! More importantly he is starting to believe in himself too. This can only be good for the future. I am much happier than after the Djokovic match last year

with his new coach lendl, andy is making progress. for a better judgement, then i think we will have to wait until the end of this year but he may be one of those players who peaks later. i think he may not win a slam this year but is probably likely to consolidate no. 3 spot in the world ahead of fed. hopefully he stays patient and sticks with lendl for another few years

Have to agree with banbrotam, look Fed is easing away into the sunset although still competent. Nadal is still great but is beatable in the hardcourt events and has serious injury issues. Djokovic is great but as murray proved the margin isn't that much between them. And there aren't any world beaters in the short term horizon. Del Po is a threat but Murray kind of owns him, so Andy just needs to plug away and he will get there. he is too good not to.

I actually think there is some good news in Murray's performance at this AO.

One of the first time he has been fully competitive with the top guys in a slam.

He has clearly sharpen up his baseline game, with more penetrating fh and good timing occasionally to show up at the net.

He has a great guy coaching him, who already seems to have an impact on his mental strenght.

Still 6 months to work before RG and wimbledon and take his chances to get one of those slam.

So cheerio!

banbrotam wrote: Once he broke Nole back in the 5th set, I was no longer particular bothered who won, partly because Nadal had a massive physical advantage but partly because Andy finally showed that he can mix it with his peers, when they are playing well and expectation is high on him

That rings such a bell with me. I was pleased when he won his own serve to force Djoko to serve it out, and when he broke back I had exactly the same feeling although it was nothing to do with Nadal.

I had a similar feeling during the Wimbledon 2008 final - once Federer won that 4th set tie-break the score was respectable, the match would go down as a classic.

I really want to see Andy get back close to the game I remember in 2008 that really impressed me. No one wanted to play him then.

banbrotam wrote:So disappointed, but can't fault his effort or skill against the current best player in the world

He almost had Djokovic sweating bullets. Good assessment BanBro.

incredibley harsh comments ! He was up against a player who is essentially better than him and gave him a heck of a match. Djokovis is the number one player in the world and you make it sound like he lost to a nobody.

Bear in mind that Djokovic had set points to win 3rd set so he could just have easily finished the match in four sets. You also seem to also overlook the following which shows the clear deserved winner:

Djokovic won 184 points
Murray won 161 points

Djokovic broke Murray serve 11 times !! Murray broke Djokovic 7 times.

Djokovic hit a couple more winners overall and made far less unforced errors.

You just need to accept that Murray played very well and really gave it his best shot but he was beaten by a player that is simply better than him, there is hardly shame in that. Djokovic has won 4 grand slams (not far away from winning calendar year grand slam last year) and contends in nearly every slam he plays so he must be doing something right. Why bash murray for taking him to 5 sets !!

barrystar wrote:

banbrotam wrote: Once he broke Nole back in the 5th set, I was no longer particular bothered who won, partly because Nadal had a massive physical advantage but partly because Andy finally showed that he can mix it with his peers, when they are playing well and expectation is high on him

That rings such a bell with me. I was pleased when he won his own serve to force Djoko to serve it out, and when he broke back I had exactly the same feeling although it was nothing to do with Nadal.

I had a similar feeling during the Wimbledon 2008 final - once Federer won that 4th set tie-break the score was respectable, the match would go down as a classic.

What????

That's the different between champions and others....it;s not about looking good and being respectable. It;s about winning. Djokovic typically doesn't get satisfied with such thoughts, He gives 100% until the last drop of sweat n blood. Federer, Nadal have learnt it the hard way.

Oh diddums LK! Remember that conversation we had about the best players turning it on more when it really matters..............

barrystar wrote:

banbrotam wrote: Once he broke Nole back in the 5th set, I was no longer particular bothered who won, partly because Nadal had a massive physical advantage but partly because Andy finally showed that he can mix it with his peers, when they are playing well and expectation is high on him

That rings such a bell with me. I was pleased when he won his own serve to force Djoko to serve it out, and when he broke back I had exactly the same feeling although it was nothing to do with Nadal.

I had a similar feeling during the Wimbledon 2008 final - once Federer won that 4th set tie-break the score was respectable, the match would go down as a classic.

I hope that Murray doesn't think like that; I certainly know that Lendl wouldn't!

Tenez wrote:

barrystar wrote:

banbrotam wrote: Once he broke Nole back in the 5th set, I was no longer particular bothered who won, partly because Nadal had a massive physical advantage but partly because Andy finally showed that he can mix it with his peers, when they are playing well and expectation is high on him

That rings such a bell with me. I was pleased when he won his own serve to force Djoko to serve it out, and when he broke back I had exactly the same feeling although it was nothing to do with Nadal.

I had a similar feeling during the Wimbledon 2008 final - once Federer won that 4th set tie-break the score was respectable, the match would go down as a classic.

What????

That's the different between champions and others....it;s not about looking good and being respectable. It;s about winning. Djokovic typically doesn't get satisfied with such thoughts, He gives 100% until the last drop of sweat n blood. Federer, Nadal have learnt it the hard way.

I don't think any of them are satisfied with such thoughts, but Murray has moved on from being someone who folds after the first disappointment to a player who loses 7-5 in the fifth having broken back from 2-5 down. In my view that makes him either one of your sweat and blood merchants or much closer to it (namely welcome progression).

As far as the Wimbledon 2008 final is concerned, Fed was obviously not happy and carried on fighting to the bitter end, but he was having a mare of a year, especially against Nadal and I was sure he was going to lose but thought it would be a disaster for him if he was beaten before the 5th set. I doubt he thought like that, I am talking about how I saw it.

I keep reading 'I take encouragement from this'

Let's clear things up shall we?

The last time I took 'positives' from a Murray defeat was when he lost to Nadal at MC last year. Why? Because not only did his Clay game go up a few notches, but his mindset to attack and control points at pressure points in his overall game changed.

Take today. Where is positive going from controlling the match against the number 1 player in the world and defending champion to just giving it back and throwing the match in? His FH looked everything like it did last year during the Clay season, so his FH was not something new and un-tested.

Nadal and Federer would've given anything last year to have Djokovic on his knees like Murray did today. the last time Djokovic was dominated like that was last year at the FO and Federer finished the job. Murray should've done the same and didn't. That there is the difference between being a winner and champion to be a nearly and could've been.

legendkillar wrote:I keep reading 'I take encouragement from this'

Let's clear things up shall we?

.... Nadal and Federer would've given anything last year to have Djokovic on his knees like Murray did today. the last time Djokovic was dominated like that was last year at the FO and Federer finished the job. Murray should've done the same and didn't. That there is the difference between being a winner and champion to be a nearly and could've been.

That's easy for you to say. I'm still waiting for Bogdanovic to break into the top 100 .

SHOCK HORROR Murray gives Djoko more than a match!!!

What the absolute f*** was Djokovic doing in the 2nd and 5th sets tho??

Nadal HAS to seize this opportunity I feel..

Jeez legend you are angry. I don't think Murray's foreahand looked as good any time last year as it did tonight. the guy is moving in the right direction. He didn't beat Djokovic tonight but there is no shame to that. Novak is the #1 and a helluva match player right now.

I am socal. A Grand Slam Semi Final is nothing new to Murray.

It infuriates me because the match was at his mercy. His GS Final defeats were more to do with him being outplayed. With his skills and talent he should be able to close out a match he is in control of. The tentative moments in the match pi$$ed me off to no end. Take the break point in the final set. Second Djokovic serve, he slaps a routine BH into the middle of the net. Poor.

I am Murray fan and have been for years. Seen him grow and his game develop.

This defeat today hurt to see. I hope he feels just as hurt at that defeat. His game has come together. The fact that everything was in place and he dismantled it all himself makes it so much harder to take and percieve any positives.

His GS Final defeats were more to do with him being outplayed

Nah he played like a chicken in 2 of those 3 finals, today he was just beaten by the better man who had more firepower, Murray will always lose out to firepower players if they are playing at peak level.

It was the best match i've ever watched, great performances from both. I'm gutted but the idiot arm chair experts calling for Murray to retire or give up should get real. Murray would have beaten anyone else today, but the court is ridiculously slow and it was so tough to hit winners. Great match.

Murray would have beaten anyone else today, but the court is ridiculously slow and it was so tough to hit winners.

Bjorn Borg would have won 5 on the bounce on these Aussie courts...

Indeed, i don't understand why they make the courts so slow everywhere. Ten years ago the likes of Nadal wouldn't have a hope in hell at the US Open or Wimbledon. The US courts were a lot slower last year, today was blue clay and Wimbledon has also been significantly slowed.

Good to see fair constructive comments about Murray

As someone, often of blind faith (as we all are when we want someone to do well) either Andy wins a Slam or officially the best player not have won one

If he plays like he has from the 2nd set of the first round in every other Slam he competes with - then he's either very unlucky or will have some Slams

Debate over!! Now for the final

Sportslover must be crushed lol

This is a new Murray, I think. His style of play (probably based on his phyiscal characteristics when younger) has meant he never tested his forehand, never finds his rhythm on that side in early rounds, then he faces a Nadal etc., where he has no choice but to get into prolonged baseline rallies, and his forehand isn't there, he's tight and doesn't trust that shot. This match was like a 5 hour drill in hitting sweetly through the ball from all positions, and he looked good.
Something should have clicked and he'll realize he can actually hit through most opponents.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

His GS Final defeats were more to do with him being outplayed

Nah he played like a chicken in 2 of those 3 finals, today he was just beaten by the better man who had more firepower, Murray will always lose out to firepower players if they are playing at peak level.

Who do you have in mind - other than the Top 2? Berdy perhaps?. But Murray's hardly played him in the last year and Berdy would never have had the wit to keep up with either of today's players and he's older

Del Potro?

Tsonga? No on both counts, i.e. he never beats Andy and isn't a true power player

Cilic? Probably - because he's a good lazy call, given that he's defeated Murray. Lazy, because there were other factors involved any Tennis fan worth his salt would know, which resulted in Murray not being fit, until that years O2

Nole's speed barely altered - yet still it was a 7-5 5th set. So here is a player who has speed and pace, only just winning, but Murray "always lose(s) out to firepower players if they are playing at peak level" !!!

A good debate inevitably spoiled by JM's - comment without engaging brain

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Sportslover must be crushed lol

So it's not all bad news then!

Actually Murray has an excellent record against so called hard hitters.

Murray/Delpo have only met in 1 slam, which was before Delpo developed consistency in groundstrokes, please don't overstate Murray's ability, i'm only being objective.

A good debate inevitably spoiled by JM's - comment without engaging brain

The thread title isn't even a debate, it's a statement.

With the great Roger Federer ageing now and now showing signs that he is no longer the player that he once was, I firmly believe that Andy Murray could win one of the remaining majors before the end of this calender year, particularly if both Nadal and Djokovic suddenly develop an injury which rule both of them out of the same major. Just imagine that, prior to the start of Wimbledon both Nadal and Djokovic get nasty injuries which rule both of them out of the tournament. This will then leave Andy Murray as the Top Seed with Roger Federer as the Second Seed!

With Andy atleast we can say he wasn't being out-aggressed by his opponent, he was owning the middle of the court for stages of the match, respect for that..

Josiah Maiestas wrote:With Andy atleast we can say he wasn't being out-aggressed by his opponent, he was owning the middle of the court for stages of the match, respect for that..

Ivan Lendl will no doubt get Andy Murray to practice more of his second serves such that it will eventually be a potent weapon like Pete Sampras's second serve was in 2001 when he played a 19 year old Swiss player by the name of Lord Federer.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Actually Murray has an excellent record against so called hard hitters.

Murray/Delpo have only met in 1 slam, which was before Delpo developed consistency in groundstrokes

So many holes in this, but here we go;-

1) What's the relevance of the Slam? I know it makes the stats look better - but actually Murray prefers the longer format, i.e. Harrison would have been a huge issue and in a 3-set match might have done what some others did last winter. Proportionally, Murray reaches his seeded postion more often at the Slams. Please stop being influenced because Murray gets beaten by the 3 players above them.

2) Or that Del Boy's won a Slam. Even this was shortly after Murray wore him down in a Masters final, i.e. when Del Potro was better. Is Murray now worse than he was then, i.e. which players has improved in the last 29 months

3) Or are you one of these who likes to be forever saying 'Del Potro is getting better and will soon be beating the Top 4' - even though he rarely did before his injury and shows little sign of doing so now. After all if he was that good, a year after his injury he'd be back up to No.5, breathing down Murray's neck - he aint


If you can guarantee me that Murray will reach 10 Slam finals and play Del Potro in each of them, me and every other Murray fan would give blood if it was the only way for it to happen

It's time you realised that the Top 4 are in a leauge of their own - even if Nole and Nadal are also in their own league. The 4 players have contested 4 of the last 5 Slams at the SF stage - with only the GOAT spoiling the record by having the aduacity to get knocked at the Wimbledon QF's (how terrible!!)

Del Potro? He's got beyond the quarters less times in his career than Murray has in the last year!! No Masters victories - solitary final appearance (see above for the result ) and a meagre 3 SF appearances

I think you can see the problem with your argument, given that Del Boy is only 17 months younger than Murray

Sorry but I have to totally disagree with you legendkiller about listing faith in Andy after today. If you were going to lose faith in him then the time for that should have been twelve months ago. Last year he went down to a meek straight sets defeat in the final to the same opponent. Today was like chalk and cheese to that performance. I'd sooner he lost and we are sat here thinking perhaps he could have or should have won than last year when we couldn't even say he could have or should have won a set. Also on top of that the signs for this partnership with Ivan Lendl are very encouraging. Three weeks into the job and already we see improvement in many areas. Obviously, still a heck of a lot to work on such as his serving and also this tension that creeps into his game at inopportune moments. Also take on board who was on the other side of the net - Djokovic is as brave advanced lion with an iron will and the star player of last year. Not an easy task at all for Andy and not many people gave him a chance but he nearly pulled it off.

Sorry but I have to totally disagree with you legendkiller about listing faith in Andy after today. If you were going to lose faith in him then the time for that should have been twelve months ago. Last year he went down to a meek straight sets defeat in the final to the same opponent. Today was like chalk and cheese to that performance. I'd sooner he lost and we are sat here thinking perhaps he could have or should have won than last year when we couldn't even say he could have or should have won a set.

Brilliant post, I think Legend should walk away with his tail between his legs. You have been mentally outwitted, fine sir.

Del Potro? He's got beyond the quarters less times in his career than Murray has in the last year!! No Masters victories - solitary final appearance (see above for the result Whistle ) and a meagre 3 SF appearances

Who was talking about Del Potro vs. the rest of the field? My post was about Del Potro vs. Murray in a 5 setter, of course even blind people should know Murray is the more consistent achiever in slams..

CaledonianCraig wrote:Sorry but I have to totally disagree with you legendkiller about listing faith in Andy after today. If you were going to lose faith in him then the time for that should have been twelve months ago. Last year he went down to a meek straight sets defeat in the final to the same opponent. Today was like chalk and cheese to that performance. I'd sooner he lost and we are sat here thinking perhaps he could have or should have won than last year when we couldn't even say he could have or should have won a set. Also on top of that the signs for this partnership with Ivan Lendl are very encouraging. Three weeks into the job and already we see improvement in many areas. Obviously, still a heck of a lot to work on such as his serving and also this tension that creeps into his game at inopportune moments. Also take on board who was on the other side of the net - Djokovic is as brave advanced lion with an iron will and the star player of last year. Not an easy task at all for Andy and not many people gave him a chance but he nearly pulled it off.

So how much of last year's final was down to Djokovic completely outclassing him?

If people think a 5 set defeat is a good thing, then there are fans who are in total denial.

Last year on Clay he played the best of his entire career. No doubt. That was the whole foundation to which this attacking tennis he has was built on.

Did Murray in last year's final look anything like troubling Djokovic? Nadal in the semi's at the FO or USO? Not a chance

I think people seem to think that he will win a Slam after every near miss, but since when has gotten close?

Today's peformance summed up why Murray even in form will struggle to win that elusive Slam if the Top 3 are left standing.

barrystar wrote:

Tenez wrote:

barrystar wrote:

banbrotam wrote: Once he broke Nole back in the 5th set, I was no longer particular bothered who won, partly because Nadal had a massive physical advantage but partly because Andy finally showed that he can mix it with his peers, when they are playing well and expectation is high on him

That rings such a bell with me. I was pleased when he won his own serve to force Djoko to serve it out, and when he broke back I had exactly the same feeling although it was nothing to do with Nadal.

I had a similar feeling during the Wimbledon 2008 final - once Federer won that 4th set tie-break the score was respectable, the match would go down as a classic.

What????

That's the different between champions and others....it;s not about looking good and being respectable. It;s about winning. Djokovic typically doesn't get satisfied with such thoughts, He gives 100% until the last drop of sweat n blood. Federer, Nadal have learnt it the hard way.

Murray has moved on from being someone who folds after the first disappointment to a player who loses 7-5 in the fifth having broken back from 2-5 down.

Awesome achievement, and still only 25.

Keep this sort of stuff coming please fellas.

I suspect it will be a much closer shave than the final.

Ths is reminding me of Rome 2011, where Murray took Djokovic to the brink, seemingly delivering him wrecked to Nadal the very next day only for a clay lesson to be handed out to the Spaniard.

bogbrush wrote:I suspect it will be a much closer shave than the final.

Ths is reminding me of Rome 2011, where Murray took Djokovic to the brink, seemingly delivering him wrecked to Nadal the very next day only for a clay lesson to be handed out to the Spaniard.

Ah, well that's clearly what's imporant here. Crumbs of comfort for you then.

How about a 13-5 h2h, and TEN Grand Slams..BEATING The GOAT along the way. Suffer.

legendkillar wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Sorry but I have to totally disagree with you legendkiller about listing faith in Andy after today. If you were going to lose faith in him then the time for that should have been twelve months ago. Last year he went down to a meek straight sets defeat in the final to the same opponent. Today was like chalk and cheese to that performance. I'd sooner he lost and we are sat here thinking perhaps he could have or should have won than last year when we couldn't even say he could have or should have won a set. Also on top of that the signs for this partnership with Ivan Lendl are very encouraging. Three weeks into the job and already we see improvement in many areas. Obviously, still a heck of a lot to work on such as his serving and also this tension that creeps into his game at inopportune moments. Also take on board who was on the other side of the net - Djokovic is as brave advanced lion with an iron will and the star player of last year. Not an easy task at all for Andy and not many people gave him a chance but he nearly pulled it off.

If people think a 5 set defeat is a good thing, then there are fans who are in total denial.

Today's peformance summed up why Murray even in form will struggle to win that elusive Slam if the Top 3 are left standing.

Against the Djokovich of today - it is a 'good thing'. A couple of points here and there decided it

You seem to think that the Top 3 will last forever. There is clear evidence that Murray is now better than today's Federer for instance. Given that we've seemed a marked improvement in Murray's shot making in the past 10 months, including a late season bagel of Nadal - is it so ridiculous to think that Andy now is ready to mix it with Nadal?

In today's game, he's still young with no-one below him able to get a fig leaf on him, unless he's injured or in very bad form. Are you really saying that if he puts the same effort in for the next 3 years, not a ridiculous suggestion, he goes home empty handed? Suppose it's the US Open and this Nole has his shoulder injury there?

All 'ifs and buts', but after today there is no longer a reason to write Andy off, ironically this is the match where a Nadal SF might have paid dividends like it did two years ago. Then a Nole/Fed SF might have given us two different final, i.e. a repeat of 2010

Realistically, there are now minimal differences between the four. If Fed kept his head nad compromised a bit more, he'd probably have a couple more slams (but why should he compromise anyway) etc

And he's only just started working with Lendl - who I'm certain can make his forehand 95% consistent instead of the current 80% consistent a vast improvement from last years 50%

Legendkiller - A five set defeat to the world No. 1 and defending champion surevas heck beats losing tamely in three sets a year ago. At the moment Djokovic is the best in the world and Murray came as near as you can to beating him. Now you may be peeved that Andy blew his chance but just remember that Djokovic did the same to the GOAT when match points down to him at the US Open. I just cannot fathom out how you kept the faith twelve months ago when Murray lost in straight sets and had no coach of note and was prone to on-court turmoil within himself. Now he looks much more assured and in control and better for it.

There is clear evidence that Murray is now better than today's Federer for instance. Given that we've seemed a marked improvement in Murray's shot making in the past 10 months, including a late season bagel of Nadal

Federer also bagelled Nadal in London if you use your memory, Nadal is usually on zero fuel at the end of a season though.

consigliare wrote:

bogbrush wrote:I suspect it will be a much closer shave than the final.

Ths is reminding me of Rome 2011, where Murray took Djokovic to the brink, seemingly delivering him wrecked to Nadal the very next day only for a clay lesson to be handed out to the Spaniard.

Ah, well that's clearly what's imporant here. Crumbs of comfort for you then.

How about a 13-5 h2h, and TEN Grand Slams..BEATING The GOAT along the way. Suffer.

You don't come on here much do you?

You've completely misunderstood who you're talking to, and which players game I prefer. And no amount of misjudged gloating will cover the shattering truth I've posted about the eclipse of Nadal by Djokovic.

consigliare wrote:

barrystar wrote:

Tenez wrote:

barrystar wrote:

banbrotam wrote: Once he broke Nole back in the 5th set, I was no longer particular bothered who won, partly because Nadal had a massive physical advantage but partly because Andy finally showed that he can mix it with his peers, when they are playing well and expectation is high on him

That rings such a bell with me. I was pleased when he won his own serve to force Djoko to serve it out, and when he broke back I had exactly the same feeling although it was nothing to do with Nadal.

I had a similar feeling during the Wimbledon 2008 final - once Federer won that 4th set tie-break the score was respectable, the match would go down as a classic.

What????

That's the different between champions and others....it;s not about looking good and being respectable. It;s about winning. Djokovic typically doesn't get satisfied with such thoughts, He gives 100% until the last drop of sweat n blood. Federer, Nadal have learnt it the hard way.

Murray has moved on from being someone who folds after the first disappointment to a player who loses 7-5 in the fifth having broken back from 2-5 down.

Awesome achievement, and still only 25.

Keep this sort of stuff coming please fellas.

I know you love watching Murray lose - but can you please note, that given the paucity of good youngsters - indeed anyone below the age of Del Potro, 25, in today's game is still young. Here, Tenez's 'physicality' argument has some foundation. You have to be fit and strong - impossible if you're 19 and still developing unless you're a freak (meant in the nicest sense) like Nadal, that comes along once every 200 years

Indeed Nishikori, the fastest rising player soon to be in the Top 20, is the 3rd youngest in the Top 50 at 22. Amazingly Chela as the 32 and a half, still occupies a Top 30 spot!! Even at 25, Andy has still far more players older than him than older

I applaud you for making me find all these facts out as the age of the top players is higher than I first thought

25, is positively a spring chicken!!

bogbrush wrote:

consigliare wrote:

bogbrush wrote:I suspect it will be a much closer shave than the final.

Ths is reminding me of Rome 2011, where Murray took Djokovic to the brink, seemingly delivering him wrecked to Nadal the very next day only for a clay lesson to be handed out to the Spaniard.

Ah, well that's clearly what's imporant here. Crumbs of comfort for you then.

How about a 13-5 h2h, and TEN Grand Slams..BEATING The GOAT along the way. Suffer.

You don't come on here much do you?

You've completely misunderstood who you're talking to, and which players game I prefer. And no amount of misjudged gloating will cover the shattering truth I've posted about the eclipse of Nadal by Djokovic.

Murray got closer to beating Djokovic than Nadal has in last 4 tries