Ireland U20s v Wales U20s - match thread.

[Cari]

First topic message reminder :

Venue: Dubarry Park, Athlone, Ireland.
Kick off: 7:05pm
Live on BBC 2 Wales and RTÉ Two from 7pm.
Referee: James Matthew (Scotland)

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/match_centre_u20.php?section=overview&fixid=169258

Ireland:

15 - Shane Layden
14 - Barry Daly
13 - Foster Horan
12 - JJ Hanrahan
11 - Sam Coghlan-Murray
10 - Patrick Jackson
9 - Kieran Marmion
1 - Kyle McCall
2 - Niall Scannell
3 - Peter Reilly
4 - Iain Henderson
5 - Daniel Qualter
6 - Conor Gilsenan
7 - Aaron Conneely
8 - Jack Conan

Replacements:
16 - Des Merrey
17 - James Rael
18 - Jake Cawley
19 - Tadgh Beirne
20 - Jordan Coghlan
21 - Luke McGrath
22 - Cathal Marsh
23 - Christopher Farrell

Errrm, I can't find who Wales are putting out, but here's the squad:
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/squads_wales_u20.php

[logie28]

Id say 6'6'' is probibly the minimum these days, what does anyone else think?

He definately needs to bulk up at that height to make it internationally, but im not saying he cant by any means, just that he's not there yet size wise.

[rodders]

There are good locks who are 6'5 but yeah thats around the lower end. 6'6 wouldn't worry me at all, it depends on your lifters and other jumpers.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Oh definitely, I am getting myself back into shape and playing this summer hopefully. I am a LOT bigger than I used to be, was 11 stone at school and now I'm 15 and a half or so. Just lost the fitness aspect of things and not all that bulk is good bulk looking forward to getting into it again though, miss being an aggressive bugger!

[rodders]

Good man Rory. I stopped at 23 and only now am I starting to feel that physically I couldn't come back. Your best years are ahead man. Enjoy

[Rory_Gallagher]

Id say 6'6'' is probibly the minimum these days, what does anyone else think?

He definately needs to bulk up at that height to make it internationally, but im not saying he cant by any means, just that he's not there yet size wise.

No Irish lock is over 18 stone in the current irish squad. O'Connell and O'Callaghan are both just over 17, as are the other options. No way does he need to get any bigger than that.

[Gibson]

18 stone? Why dont Ireland bypass and stop copying the Ancient and unworkable - British Imperial system and evolve. Always makes me laugh that.
Rugby players:
18 stones 5 lbs, and 4 ounces.
6 feet 5 and a quarter inches.
Girth: 50 inches.


1 rod - 1 furlong
8 furlongs in a mile.

Perches, Roods - Acres.
Gills, pints, quarts, gallons.

I mean, no wonder the Empire disappeared. They took too long weighing it, counting it and measuring it - to rule it.

I'll make it simple for ye.

DIVIDE by 10.

[Thomond]

I thought Wales were awful and will take a big beating from England
on that performance

And what gives you great hope against England since you struggled to put away an abject Welsh side?Get real,mun.

Didn't see where he said we would beat England. Actually if the Welsh could hold on to the ball we might be able to assess their capabilities.

"Irish 15 looked like a Gaelic Footballer.If he gets some coaching he may turn into a Rugby player." I'm sure you haven't a clue what a Gaelic Footballer looks like in comparison to anyone else but I would remind you that some of Ireland's best were brought up in Gaelic Football. Most recently Shane Horgan and Tomas O'Leary.

O'Leary was a hurler like his dad. Never a footballer. Chili con Kearney and Bowe were footballers.

[The Great Aukster]

Anyone know how Kyle McCall did?

[geoff999rugby]

I thought MCall was a bit of a disappointment . The TH was far more impressive.

[geoff999rugby]

Some people have an active imagination; because I said I think Wales will take a thumping from England somehow that means I think Ireland will beat them

For the record I can see Wales losing by 35+ points
Ireland will, I believe lose by 10-15 points

The difference is because Ireland have far more to offer up front and dont have a midfield that is sub standard (which on last nights performance Wales were)

[geoff999rugby]

I think is a sense of unreality about some comments about Jackson. Fly Half is the hardest position (along with TH) to come in and shine as a youngster. It requires a huge amount of development and experience. That is why 10's are often in their late 20's before they are at their peak.

Jackson has shown he has the basic skill set to succeed but he needs to gain experience. He has kick some great goals, last night was an off night - it happens.
Regarding Madigan who was mentioned, I think Jackson will be at a similar level by the 2013-14 season.

I repeat look back at the last 3 Ireland fly halfs at the age of 20 - not a pretty site any of them. Jackson potentially is their equal

[MBTGOG]

Only watched a bit of it this morning but Hanrahan looked good again. Liking that there are more ball playing midfielders coming through the system at the moment.

Anyone know why Shane Buckley wasn't in the squad? Not considered good enough or?

[MBTGOG]

Oh and on the Madigan point, I'm pretty sure that when he played at this level, he only started out at full back and moved into out half when Andrew Burke showed he wasn't up to this level.

You never know how these things work out.

[rodders]

I think is a sense of unreality about some comments about Jackson. Fly Half is the hardest position (along with TH) to come in and shine as a youngster. It requires a huge amount of development and experience. That is why 10's are often in their late 20's before they are at their peak.

Jackson has shown he has the basic skill set to succeed but he needs to gain experience. He has kick some great goals, last night was an off night - it happens.
Regarding Madigan who was mentioned, I think Jackson will be at a similar level by the 2013-14 season.

I repeat look back at the last 3 Ireland fly halfs at the age of 20 - not a pretty site any of them. Jackson potentially is their equal

Well said Geoff. People need to show a bit of patience.

[The Great Aukster]

Agree on Jackson Geoff. He is trying to take on too much responsibility too soon which shows a good psyche, but is affecting his natural place kicking style.

Surely if Buckley is fit, he plays?

Is Peter Nelson still injured as well?

[Standulstermen]

I thought Jacksons 2nd half was excellent. His kicking from hand was great but he does need to keep up with the place kicking. To be honest this is why I do hope for a shake up in ulster coaches. Not criticising McLaughlin but again I'm not sure if doak or longwell will get our young backs delivering on their full potential.

With the talent there is spence, Jackson, Farrell, Nelson, Marshall, Gilroy I do think our priority should be getting the best coaching to ensure that these guys make it.

[Don Alfonso]

While I think Stag has a weird thing about Jackson (if I were Paddy I wouldn't be parking the car in any poorly-lit, unattended car parks at night), I do kind of agree on the whole "oh, he will definitely be a future Irish international" hype that greets all good young Irish players. I read someone commenting on a forum last night who was of the opinion Hanrahan would defintely be a Lion. Honestly. Although he was very good last night, he hasn't so much as played on the Munster senior team yet. People said David Pollock would definitely be an Irish international. Or Jacko or JJ may end up as the Irish Gavin Henson. Sometimes, it just doesn't happen.

[Cymroglan]

Don as you stated the next step up is a massive one and one that many players cant take.
If we judged progress purely on age grade rugby then none of us would have any chance of competing with England.
Some players stop developing at a early age while others just get better and better with age.

[profitius]

How will Jackson turn out? who knows. He will get better but its too early to say if he'll be playing international rugby. Hanrahan is far from the finished article but has real class. Physically he might be a little small for 12 at international level his future is at 10, depending on his kicking. They're all young players and will get better.

Only watched a bit of it this morning but Hanrahan looked good again. Liking that there are more ball playing midfielders coming through the system at the moment.

Anyone know why Shane Buckley wasn't in the squad? Not considered good enough or?

Buckley was a first choice starter last season after coming out of school, gets signed up into the Munster academy and hes not in the squad this time. Strange one alright. It could be an injury, clash of personalities or maybe he isn't good enough.

[Knowsit17]

Agreed Don, I think that much of the Irish talent coming through the age grades (not that the Irish are by any length the only ones who do it) ticks the box for early hype. The only one who impressed me consistently was Hanrahan, the others mainly had mixed games.

Wales were lamentable and Ireland deserved the win, no doubts there. But had roles been reversed and Wales been winning in that fashion I'd have been far from satisfied. End of the day, they were far from clinical scoring one try from about 75% possession and territory and letting the opposition stay in it up to the death, give the Welsh a breakaway try and conversion in the closing seconds and Ireland's statistic dominance would have been for nothing. Jackson was poor with the boot and despite the hype has a lot to learn before getting close to a senior cap imo, as do many others on both sides.

I see both sides as needing to seek improvement and cut out the amateur errors. Like I said from the Irish pov I can't imagine it's a convincing display but from a Welsh perspective it was a dreadful outing and Ireland were deserving winners so fair do's.

[MrsP]

I think some Munster supporters just can't allow themselves to praise an Ulsterman called Paddy!

[Rory_Gallagher]

18 stone? Why dont Ireland bypass and stop copying the Ancient and unworkable - British Imperial system and evolve. Always makes me laugh that.
Rugby players:
18 stones 5 lbs, and 4 ounces.
6 feet 5 and a quarter inches.
Girth: 50 inches.


1 rod - 1 furlong
8 furlongs in a mile.

Perches, Roods - Acres.
Gills, pints, quarts, gallons.

I mean, no wonder the Empire disappeared. They took too long weighing it, counting it and measuring it - to rule it.

I'll make it simple for ye.

DIVIDE by 10.

Henderson is 1.98m and 115kg then that better?

[MrsP]

I think you've gone the wrong way with your translation Rory.

Gibbo was asking for the measurements in units he was taught.

You need to go back to the ,

"1 rod - 1 furlong
8 furlongs in a mile.

Perches, Roods - Acres.
Gills, pints, quarts, gallons. "

[Gibson]

18 stone? Why dont Ireland bypass and stop copying the Ancient and unworkable - British Imperial system and evolve. Always makes me laugh that.
Rugby players:
18 stones 5 lbs, and 4 ounces.
6 feet 5 and a quarter inches.
Girth: 50 inches.


1 rod - 1 furlong
8 furlongs in a mile.

Perches, Roods - Acres.
Gills, pints, quarts, gallons.

I mean, no wonder the Empire disappeared. They took too long weighing it, counting it and measuring it - to rule it.

I'll make it simple for ye.

DIVIDE by 10.

Henderson is 1.98m and 115kg then that better?

[Gibson]

I think you've gone the wrong way with your translation Rory.

Gibbo was asking for the measurements in units he was taught.

You need to go back to the ,

"1 rod - 1 furlong
8 furlongs in a mile.

Perches, Roods - Acres.
Gills, pints, quarts, gallons. "

I was taught in the Metric system in secondary school. Thats why its so laughable that people in their 20's, still use miles, rocks and gallons.

I blame the 50 year-old parents (specially Mothers) meself. They set a bad example.

[MrsP]

Well, since the big five ohhhh is still in my future I can not comment.

I just thought you were a bit confused by having to operate in both systems at the same time.

It must be difficult for you.

Sure have a wee rest now before the rugby starts.

[Morgannwg]

Thats good that Ulster are issuing programs. Its moved on from my day then.

When I was playing schoolboy rugby only a handful of players did weights off their own back and then I remember going to Wales and every man and his dog were on creatine and protein shakes.

Hey man its never too late to go back and play again

You sure it was just creatine and protein?

[Gibson]

Well, since the big five ohhhh is still in my future I can not comment.

I just thought you were a bit confused by having to operate in both systems at the same time.

It must be difficult for you.

Sure have a wee rest now before the rugby starts.

I'll be over for the bash. Next year. If I still get an invite that is...

Ill buy you a Metric Guide for the over 50's.

[Shifty]

What the hell are you on about now Alyn?

In the Wales U20 squad there is this very big, very nasty red haired prop called Sampson Lee, 18 stone and 6ft.

He's from a gypsy family by all accounts and is a hot prospect. One Wales don't want Ireland nicking .

[Thomond]

Jackson's kicking was pretty woeful, you would expect a fella on a provincial underage squad to get most of them. Hanrahan is the reason we didn't need James Fecking Downey.

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