I hate Wales

Look at you lot, with all your young players in both the forwards and the backs, playing a fast paced off loading game, makes me sick I tell ya! And your defence, pfft, rushing up like that to stifle the attackers options and often stop them a few metres behind the gain line, abominable!

Okay enough of that, saw quite a lot of good signs from Wales today, which being an englishman is upsetting! Other than your lineout its pretty strong across the board, decent depth in some key positions now, which is what has held you back in the past. Still think there is a lot of over-rating on this North fella, good player but calm it down a bit yeah? Looked dangerous going forward and until Scotland really started going for it seemed very solid in defence, though whether thats due to Scotlands ineptitude in attack is debatable (sorry Scotland fans!).

So whats going to happen 2 weeks from now then? Will England be celebrating a perhaps unexpected win? Or will Wales start to improve on their frankly appalling record at Twickers? Purely on paper and form, Wales should waltz this, but as we all know form goes out the window in this game. I have seen glimpses of how England want to play and if they can keep the ball and play how I think they can they will win by a few points imo. If not its Wales' to lose, unfortunately I don't think England will be able to play at their highest levels for long enough and I can see Wales winning by about 4-7.

Thoughts?

I have spent a life time watching Wales getting smashed up in England, in fact I can only remember 3 games when we beat them away in my life time, 1988, 1999 and 2008?

England have been poor but the game starts 0-0, and England have a monstrous pack of forwards, I'm worried to be honest.

Aye, anything can happen in a England v Wales match especially at Twickenham.

I thought the 08 game was the first time you'd beaten us in about 24 years or something at twickers? Not sure what happened in 1999 though but I was only 11...

2008 was at Twickenham, so 1999 would have been in Cardiff...

1999 wasn't at Twickenham, it was at Wembley, and it was a "home" fixture for Wales as the Millenium was being constructed at the time.

In essence Wales were pummelled for 90% of the game but the boot of Jenkins kept you in touch as the English squandered umpteen opportunities to score. Then with the last play of the game Scott Gibbs crashed over to score the winning try.....I remember it well, because of that Welsh victory Scotland won the 5 Nations......

It wasnt quite the last play of the game, we still had to defend a bit at the end and could have lost it, we hung on and it turned into a perfect day.

AlynDavies wrote:I have spent a life time watching Wales getting smashed up in England, in fact I can only remember 3 games when we beat them away in my life time, 1988, 1999 and 2008?

England have been poor but the game starts 0-0, and England have a monstrous pack of forwards, I'm worried to be honest.

Not sure about that Alan. Many England fans are concerned at how lightweight it is....

England could have kicked a penalty a couple of minutes before but went for a lineout blew it and wales broke out penalty, lineout gibbs, try. I was living in london back then so went to quitea few of the wembly games. One against the French was paticularly awful for wales as I recall.

belovedfrosties wrote:
Okay enough of that, saw quite a lot of good signs from Wales today, which being an englishman is upsetting!

Yes it was very upsetting for a lot of your countrymen on the Wales/Scotland match thread today. English, Irish, Scots and a boer each joined forces in there attacks so when the final whistle was blown I felt I had to appologise for us winning the game; and so I appologised.

In 2 weeks time we'll see a different England team. New strategy and some players coming back in. Foden will have a stormer after his shocker. I think they may still rely on the boot for points which may not be enough. If Wales go up without losing any more players to injury, forwards especially then we could be comfortable winners. The pressure was on us to win the triple crown in Dublin a few years back and we succeeded. This time around it will only add motivation to the new guys and the team.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:I have spent a life time watching Wales getting smashed up in England, in fact I can only remember 3 games when we beat them away in my life time, 1988, 1999 and 2008?

England have been poor but the game starts 0-0, and England have a monstrous pack of forwards, I'm worried to be honest.

Not sure about that Alan. Many England fans are concerned at how lightweight it is....

Yeah Alyn I think those childhood scars are gonna get some more healing power in a couple of weeks.

The English pack isnt what it was although Lawes and Morgan will give it a bit of extra bite. Their scrum will be under pressure from our front row and their lineout against the Italians was even more flaky than ours against the scots. The backrow is workmanlike but there is nobody who is going to strike fear into the welsh team. Stop Tuilagi and they wont score tries.

Morgannwg wrote:

belovedfrosties wrote:
Okay enough of that, saw quite a lot of good signs from Wales today, which being an englishman is upsetting!

Yes it was very upsetting for a lot of your countrymen on the Wales/Scotland match thread today. English, Irish, Scots and a boer each joined forces in there attacks so when the final whistle was blown I felt I had to appologise for us winning the game; and so I appologised.

Erm, que?

The English front row certainly isn't lightweight. Morgan should start and he'll be hard for our back-row to contain. Lawes is overated in my opinion. Do you really need another Tom Croft on the field or a bruiser like Palmer?

Morgannwg wrote:
Yes it was very upsetting for a lot of your countrymen on the Wales/Scotland match thread today. English, Irish, Scots and a boer each joined forces in there attacks so when the final whistle was blown I felt I had to appologise for us winning the game; and so I appologised.

I see you are still fishing.

That Wembley game against France was the only game I've ever left early. I couldn't bear to watch any more. And then the next year we won in Paris!

Noble-Surfer wrote:2008 was at Twickenham, so 1999 would have been in Cardiff...

No you history guys come on, 99 was Wembley and technically a ' home' game.

Our record at Twickenham is shocking and I will be as nervous as I ever am going there in two weeks time.

england with a monster pack and hard hitting centres. old fashioned but they have a chance.

Wales probably 20 point favourites though.

trebellbobaggins wrote:england with a monster pack and hard hitting centres. old fashioned but they have a chance.

Wales probably 20 point favourites though.

20pts, even as a passionate, galss always full Welshman that made me laugh

I am not allowed to preduct anything realistic, it always curses my teams when i do.

it's a bloody curse.

Baggins, we dont need to be cursed when we go to Twickers, we can manage to mess things up nicely without the need for calling upon evil spirits!

Good point. i'll put the ouija board down now.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:I have spent a life time watching Wales getting smashed up in England, in fact I can only remember 3 games when we beat them away in my life time, 1988, 1999 and 2008?

England have been poor but the game starts 0-0, and England have a monstrous pack of forwards, I'm worried to be honest.

Not sure about that Alan. Many England fans are concerned at how lightweight it is....

Yeah Alyn I think those childhood scars are gonna get some more healing power in a couple of weeks.

The English pack isnt what it was although Lawes and Morgan will give it a bit of extra bite. Their scrum will be under pressure from our front row and their lineout against the Italians was even more flaky than ours against the scots. The backrow is workmanlike but there is nobody who is going to strike fear into the welsh team. Stop Tuilagi and they wont score tries.

Could be boosted by Sherdian too. Looks better in the set piece than the loose.

The Welsh defence is nothing new, Wasps played like it for years as have Wales, so why are teams finding it a surprise?

I'm confident I could take a good NL1 team and find the key to unlock the Welsh defence over 80mins.

"Could be boosted by Sherdian too. Looks better in the set piece than the loose"

I thought the England front row did well in Rome. Sheridan was poor for Sale on the weekend, the Worcester tight head was all over him in the scrum.

I'm never confident when Wales travel to Twickenham and I'm surprised that people have Wales as favourites for this. If we play well we can win, but England are no mugs and they're two from two themselves.

HERSH wrote:The Welsh defence is nothing new, Wasps played like it for years as have Wales, so why are teams finding it a surprise?

I'm confident I could take a good NL1 team and find the key to unlock the Welsh defence over 80mins.

The key to unlocking the welsh defence is simple, the problem is being able to execute it i the face of teh aggressive defence. Either the inside ball or quick hands and a miss move can get around the welsh midfield, the scots and Irish managed to use both. So far England have done absolutly nothing in attack, 2 linebreaks in total against the Scots and Italians does not suggest Englands attack is going to suddenly start executing plays that are going to breach the welsh.

Defensively England have missed 23 first up tackles and have conceded 13 linebreaks in their two matches. Wales offence by contras to Englands have scored six tries in open play all by our backs If england miss another 8-10 tackles and 7-8 linebreaks against the welsh backs at the moment then they are going to get battered.

Englands scrum with or without Sheridan has not been dominant or destructive, Against Italy it was getting a beasting until castrogiovanni went off. Wales have a first choice front row and AWJ back in the front five as well as a first choice back row. That makes our pack considerably better in the tight. Englands lineout was just as flaky as Wales' against the Italians losing three throws, so any percieved dominance there is purely speculative and not based upon whats happened so far on teh pitch.

Englands backrow is simply not that scary and without an openside they are going to struggle at the breakdown against Wales very settled breakaway trio. Morgan will add some bite if he is picked but in a retreating scrum he is going to have his work cut out.

Tuilagi is Englands best hope but thats relying on him being fit and on form and able to cope with an international test so quickly after injury. If JD and Roberts stop him England wont score tries.

offload wrote:"Could be boosted by Sherdian too. Looks better in the set piece than the loose"

I thought the England front row did well in Rome. Sheridan was poor for Sale on the weekend, the Worcester tight head was all over him in the scrum.

Oh really. Ah not ready to come back then.

Don't agree at all that Wales will be considerably better in the tight, reckon eng will edge that.

trebell why you being positve!!!!!

trebellbobaggins wrote:Don't agree at all that Wales will be considerably better in the tight, reckon eng will edge that.

based on what? Their linneout stats from the weekend are worse than Wales'

Their fromt row is simply not as good as Wales, Gethin and Adam Jones would be shoe ins for a lions side at the moment with Healey and Murray the next best of the props. The English front row were unable to put the Italians away when they had a clear novice at tighthead on saturday. England lack a destructive tighthead.

At the breakdown a lack of a genuine openside is going to leave them exposed, Warburton or Tipuric will have afield day.

After watching Murray against Bath i'm interested in how you can say he is an option for the Lions?

He was driven backwards by Bath's Nathan Catt.

Didnt see that game HERSH tbh, but given his past form and last weeks match, He is the kind of destructive player you need at tighthead. I dont see any English front rower in the squad with those qualities.

Murray is just a name, he wasn't destructive against neither Bath nor England.

Come back when you have some real rugby knowledge and don't just believe what you hear on Scrum V or read in the Western Mail.

England were very solid against a very good Italy tight five, even when Castro was on. Don't see a weak tight five there at all.

Nor me, granted it's not the best unit in the world but its solid enough.

I just don't get where this myth has come from?

The biggest weakness England have had is the No9, Youngs just hasn't moved the ball quickly enough, the forwards set it up only for him to slow it down again.

HERSH wrote:Murray is just a name, he wasn't destructive against neither Bath nor England.

Come back when you have some real rugby knowledge and don't just believe what you hear on Scrum V or read in the Western Mail.

Whatever

Cole next after Jones not Murray.
Also Healy and Jenkins is a close call

England don't have a weak pack; it's just relatively weak compared to some of the juggernauts they've had in the last ten - twenty years.

The awful conditions the other day really mean we can't judge how eng might use the ball at all really either.

Not as well as wales for sure but maybe not as bad as some think.

But its true Murray hasn't done anything for ages, he is just a name living on the past.

It's nothing personal, but it get my back up as an England fan being told are front row are weak when it isn't true, the reason Wales will win the front row battle is that they have two world class props, not many teams of the past or present can say that, Wales are very privileged to have those two at the same time.

This is going to be a great game. I hope both have full teams so we can see them both going at it

This is going to be a very tough challenge for Wales. If England bring back Tuilagi and Lawes they will considerably strengthen and put a tougher more aggressive edge to back line and forwards. Bring back Flood as well and they have a balanced back line that can smash through or glide past opponents. If Sheridan is also fit then they will probably have a dominant scrum and its hard to see Wales getting equality let alone dominance at the lineout. ............... So once again Wales are likely to need to take every chance to score with less possession and probably less territory than their opponents.

Good thing is we have the players to take those scoiring opportunities and with Warburten back England shouldn't get to much of that lovely fast ball from the breakdown that Scotland enjoyed yesterday

I think I must have been watching different games, because England's front row has been one of their greatest positives. Corbs and Cole seriously held their own against both Scotland and Italy, and actually came out on top overall I reckon. Both have played incredibly well, and offer well in the loose.

the biggest positive for wales going in to the england game is surely halfpennys kicking!!

we know they can play rugby, but surely playing at twickers against england is gonna be a tough prospect for scoring many tries

. wales almost lost to ireland due to the kicking(and if they hadnt allowed halfpenny to kick the last few wales may h ave lost the game), and what did he get 5 out of 5 or something last game- good performance

bluestonevedder wrote:I think I must have been watching different games, because England's front row has been one of their greatest positives. Corbs and Cole seriously held their own against both Scotland and Italy, and actually came out on top overall I reckon. Both have played incredibly well, and offer well in the loose.

Likewise Blue, considering everyone has said before both games that we are going to get hammered at scrum time we have done very well. Pretty much equal against the Scots, maybe edged it and against the Italians we were more than holding our own with Castro on the pitch, won a few penalties when he went off until Stevens came on. Lineout is a worry for me but we did ok enough against the Scots who have a very good one (dreading the Ireland game), luckily for us the Welsh lineout isn't a strong point so i can see both sides losing some throws.

England do not have a monster pack, though it is bigger than most give it credit for, was heavier than the Italians by a reasonable amount if memory serves and they aren't exactly small. One thing I have noticed about this new team is that despite a lack of a true 7 we have been good at the breakdown. I think Lancaster has got everyone in the pack doing some form of ruck turnover training, front row has been very good at turning over ball.

belovedfrosties wrote:front row has been very good at turning over ball.

That's true.

HERSH wrote:The Welsh defence is nothing new, Wasps played like it for years as have Wales, so why are teams finding it a surprise?

I'm confident I could take a good NL1 team and find the key to unlock the Welsh defence over 80mins.

Go on then.

I'm not giving away my rugby nous for free

It's been done before, even Scotland could be taut how to do it.

Despite Wales not being at 100% yesterday I still think we always looked dangerous in attack, everytime we got into the 22 we looked like scoring or coming away with points, that is something we have failed to do in the past.

Couple of things for the England game.

1. Discipline - Farrell is lethal with his kicking, and we dont want to get any stupid yellow cards.
2. Compete ferociously at the breakdown, England have a big backrow and we could really do with Warbs or Tipuric back, as Shingler is not really a natural 7.
3. Cut out the inaccurate kicking, I dont want to invite their pacey back 3 to counter attack.
4. Sort the fecking line out.

The kicking was what annoyed me the most yesterday, Mike. Of course, sometimes we need to kick, but Priestland was picking out the Scottish back three half the time.