What is going on in Wales?

Just when it looks like Wales might have become a dominate force in world rugby why is the WRU allowing its most talented players to play overseas?
One or two key players plying their trade else where can be a benefit to the squad but with the current exodus of players its must be a real worry for the fans, I can only see this hurting Wales chances come 2015.

It’s a tough call for these players as they only have a limited time to earn money playing rugby and the big bucks on offer in France makes it a no brainer when compared to their Region contracts, Gatland must be fuming with the current situation as its completely out of his hands, to be honest it wouldn’t surprise me if he walked away from it all, maybe the RFU could pull off a sneaky bid to tempt him away from the WRU?

Who knows what will happen, but I know one thing Wales’s chances of RWC glory in 2015 is beginning to slip away from them grasp due to individuals personal greed.

Ye, by losing players over the age of 28/29, a rugby WC 3 years away will suffer from not having players in their mid 30's from Wales, unlike the English players who will leave for places like JAPAN HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

How could England tempt Gatland, when they couldn't convince Edwards who actually wants to coach in England HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Edwards was just holding out for a bigger pay deal from the WRU

Greed once again! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, ooh it's infectious isn't it!

Greed???

He wanted the Saxons job, as a stepping stone to the England job, but they say no and offer him a lowly coaching role with a view to becoming Saxons defence coach, then they return with a saxons offer which was a 3rd of the paygrade Wales offered. Then with MJ out of the way real coaches stood a chance, Edwards was looked at seriously, and even met with a few honchos, yet he was offered nothing of note again, in an attempt to wrap him up, away from the Welsh set up, without upsetting squeeky's mates already in the job!!!

Edwards is recognised as the best defence coach on the planet, yet England don't have the foresight to snap him up when he's itching to get involved!!!

As soon as Andrews gets the boot, Edwards will be offered a monster contract, lets just hope the RFU havn't ruined their chances with him already

thebluesmancometh wrote:As soon as Andrews gets the boot

When?
When?
When?
When?
When?
When?

Hersh - It's called player development, it's a bit like students taking a year out to develop themselves. This clever WRU strategy means the french and english rugby finances will be used to develop our players and give them insight and exposure to french and english club rugby. Its a bit like spys, only you guys get to pay for them as well. This also allows for the next generation of welsh giants to develop their games in the free flowing RABO before they are then sent out on foreign missions paid for by the hosting countrys. I think its a great strategy. The next WRU move is to fund London Welsh in the GP so we have a whole team of spys in there. I think this is an ingenious plan and perhaps the real genious is that everyone thinks we are losing out

London Welsh are coming close too, although a little work is needed to Old dear park!

When they dpo reach the AP too, the links between Wales will grow stronger again and they'll be looking at 6+ welshmen per lineup playing prem rugby!!!

The only players that are leaving/left that have even the slightest impact on the Wales squad are Phillips, Jenkins and Charteris, and we've seen that Phillips' move hasn't hindered him at all.

3 players out of a big squad isn't an issue imo, tis just the media getting hysterical and desperately trying to sell papers.

Ridiculous.

Wow, good thing that this is not getting blown out of all proportion

thebluesmancometh wrote:London Welsh are coming close too, although a little work is needed to Old dear park!

When they dpo reach the AP too, the links between Wales will grow stronger again and they'll be looking at 6+ welshmen per lineup playing prem rugby!!!

L Welsh have agreed to use Brentford FC's ground in the interim should they get promoted

Have they Ruby?

Didn't know that, was at Old dear park recently too.

Next time you're there ask around, tell them your a friend of Ruby

Ruby? Not sure I'd have the guts to mention I knew a Ruby!

I was there proffesionally, not for fun!

So I take it you don't have any fun as a professional then - Get a different job

Not when your there with a squad of 16 year olds... Fun is not allowed!

What is wrong with Welsh players in France? It was ok for Alfie and Wellies. They need to maintain their contractual availability for Welsh training and of they don't they must weigh the consequences for their international careers. Even so they will face SH competition for places. It won't be bad for Welsh rugby if guys are playing Top 14. Finally on an emotional level. I don't live in Wales, but I'm passionate about Welsh rugby, so why should they. Wales is a state of mind!

I don't think this is getting blown out of proportion particularly when your coach Gatland & ex captain Rees have spoken out strongly against it.

As Rees states it has to have a knock on effect for fans who want to see the best Welsh players, the Regions who will be further significantly weakened and ultimately the National side as you lose player control.
Time will tell if many other players follow & some talk may be posturing to get the WRU to fork out for central contracts.

You either believe what your coach & ex captain say or bury your head in the sand.

Bigtrev

Do you always beleive what your Coach or ex captain told you, because there were a few words from Tindall I didn't quite buy, and MJ...

Well lets just leave that there!

well, Jon Davies has just re-signed for Scarlets so can't be that bad.... http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/news/4700.php

Good news for the Scarlets, IMO his been Wales best player.

RubyGuby wrote:Hersh - It's called player development, it's a bit like students taking a year out to develop themselves. This clever WRU strategy means the french and english rugby finances will be used to develop our players and give them insight and exposure to french and english club rugby. Its a bit like spys, only you guys get to pay for them as well. This also allows for the next generation of welsh giants to develop their games in the free flowing RABO before they are then sent out on foreign missions paid for by the hosting countrys. I think its a great strategy. The next WRU move is to fund London Welsh in the GP so we have a whole team of spys in there. I think this is an ingenious plan and perhaps the real genious is that everyone thinks we are losing out

although i dont see things as possitively as guby i dont think its a disaster. preserving the celtic league is more important than any individuals at the moment.

I wouldn't say that these moves are bad for the national team at all, if anything I can see the positives.
However, the future if our domestic game because of this is what worries me. A lack of big names (in most cases better players), lack of success will lead to further reduction in crowds and income.

I'm worried tbh, there was more hope during the rebel season...

I think its heading for central contracts at last. The WRU are going to end up contracting the top thirty players rather than tthe regions. This is a good thing as it will end up with more control over the players. The regions need to cut their cloth and become financially viable. We will probably lose a couple more before theseason is out but by this time next year the idea of central contracts will be in place.

On top of that the French model is unsustainable in the long run espescially if the Euro goes pear shaaped. Whilst it is taking our best players at the moment they are also gaining a lot of experience and it will improve them. In the long run with central contracts and a regional system that isnt throwing money away the game in Wales will get stronger.

The regions still need to market themselves better, do deals for families and kids, drop the price of entrance and do school discounts and people will start to come and watch them again. The ospreys crowds are dissapointing not because of the star nakes leaving but because the brand of rugby they play has been dire regardless of results. Improve the product on display and drop the price and crowds will return. Im not worried in the long term but in the short term we may see a few more big names leave. As far as the National team goes its not going to stop the sides development if players are abroad.

HERSH wrote:Good news for the Scarlets, IMO his been Wales best player.

HERSH, I can't believe it but I actually agree with you

Jon Davies and 1/2p have been my standouts in the backs, for sure.

HERSH wrote:
Just when it looks like Wales might have become a dominate force in world rugby why is the WRU allowing its most talented players to play overseas?
One or two key players plying their trade else where can be a benefit to the squad but with the current exodus of players its must be a real worry for the fans, I can only see this hurting Wales chances come 2015.

It’s a tough call for these players as they only have a limited time to earn money playing rugby and the big bucks on offer in France makes it a no brainer when compared to their Region contracts, Gatland must be fuming with the current situation as its completely out of his hands, to be honest it wouldn’t surprise me if he walked away from it all, maybe the RFU could pull off a sneaky bid to tempt him away from the WRU?

Who knows what will happen, but I know one thing Wales’s chances of RWC glory in 2015 is beginning to slip away from them grasp due to individuals personal greed.

Your first sentence doesn't make sense.

What has the WRU got to do with where the players play?

If they want to stop ti, they have to get involved and spend money to keep the players. Something which they've been unprepared to do. This needs to change clearly.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

HERSH wrote:
Just when it looks like Wales might have become a dominate force in world rugby why is the WRU allowing its most talented players to play overseas?
One or two key players plying their trade else where can be a benefit to the squad but with the current exodus of players its must be a real worry for the fans, I can only see this hurting Wales chances come 2015.

It’s a tough call for these players as they only have a limited time to earn money playing rugby and the big bucks on offer in France makes it a no brainer when compared to their Region contracts, Gatland must be fuming with the current situation as its completely out of his hands, to be honest it wouldn’t surprise me if he walked away from it all, maybe the RFU could pull off a sneaky bid to tempt him away from the WRU?

Who knows what will happen, but I know one thing Wales’s chances of RWC glory in 2015 is beginning to slip away from them grasp due to individuals personal greed.

Your first sentence doesn't make sense.

What has the WRU got to do with where the players play?

If they want to stop ti, they have to get involved and spend money to keep the players. Something which they've been unprepared to do. This needs to change clearly.

So in truth the sentence does make sense as the WRU could put in place a system to allow the most talented players to remain in Wales and earn the money which they could earn elsewhere.

Please feel free to apologies.

From a semantic point of view I guess. But the sentence has no relevance to Welsh rugby because it is incorrect.

Although I will confess, this is probably one of your better wind ups. I'd give it 3 / 10.

How is this a wind up?

Please explain.

HERSH wrote:How is this a wind up?

Please explain.

I do not believe you are thick enough to not understand that human beings will take more money if they are offered it, to do the same job.

Therefore calling rugby players greedy for doing so, is a wind up.

Keep calm Chunky,

It was a fair question to ask as you seem to be attacking my integrity without any real argument to back it up.

Of course some players are greedy when it comes to their earnings, money isn't everything in life.

The Regions have stood by some of these players during their good and bad times both on and off the field and at the moment the Regions are struggling financially as is most business's in Britain, would it really hurt some of these players to remain loyal, plus at the same time keeping themselves 100% available to their countries cause

Rhys Thomas is off to Wasps now!

And this has been a really good effort on your part HERSH, a solid 1.5 / 10 this time... your improving!

HERSH

What regions are struggling? Dragons yes but the others are financially going well (in comparison with the rest of the world)

The pieman has a fortune but only spends if he needs to, and Cuddy just halved his wage bill.

Rhy Thomas??? Oh no how will we ever cope with the guy who had a handfull of caps 5 years ago?

And look at our 'best' talent you speak of, Hook, Byrne, Mitchell, Powell, Peel none of which can make the WINNING welsh team despite being their new clubs superstars!!!

Have you not seen what is happening to the Blues?

The others aren't to far behind if they don't start getting fans through the door.

Who's going to pay more to not see the Star Players play?

HERSH wrote:

Of course some players are greedy when it comes to their earnings, money isn't everything in life.

So it's your turn to back it up.

Which Welsh players have been greedy?

Whats happening to the Blues, just released a 30 year old prop, and are considering buying out of a very expensive contract at the City stadium, 2 recent moves back to the CAP, both sellouts and both convincing wins, through to the HC knockouts and challenging for a Pro 12 playoff place...

You really should learn a thing or two just by reading these boards mate, it's getting a little silly now!

HERSH wrote:Have you not seen what is happening to the Blues?

The others aren't to far behind if they don't start getting fans through the door.

What is happenning to the Blues?

Do you mean the only Welsh region to make the knock out stages of the H Cup?

thebluesmancometh wrote:Whats happening to the Blues, just released a 30 year old prop, and are considering buying out of a very expensive contract at the City stadium, 2 recent moves back to the CAP, both sellouts and both convincing wins, through to the HC knockouts and challenging for a Pro 12 playoff place...

You really should learn a thing or two just by reading these boards mate, it's getting a little silly now!

If he / she could back up the points made then it would be something but all of his / her posts just smack of jealousy towards Wales and the Welsh.

Jealousy is a big part of it, I think HERSH is a Bath, and more importantly Bananaman fan, so any rugby knowledge is clouded by ignorance, and a touch of idiocy.

The Blues are broke, the money left could very easily dry up and the WRU are under no obligation to pay them any money next year if they are only offering overseas journeymen contracts.


Chunk - Why have I got to back it up, look it up on the web.

But I'll give you one example if you want one, Gethin Jenkins was offered a very good deal to stay at the Blues, ok it wasn't as good as his last one but it was the Blues who made him the player that he is, would a little bit of loyalty towards the Blues and the Blues fans really hurt?

Plus Bath offered him a very good deal which allowed him to be available for all of Wales's training camps and he turned it down for more money and the possibility he won't be able to attend the training camps.


How many HC have the Welsh regions won, hmmm and thats with their superstars.
Bath have one by the way.

Geth said he's 31 and needs to make some fast bucks - he was offered 100k less than he was on last year to stay at the Blues - It's a no brainer

HERSH wrote:
Chunk - Why have I got to back it up, look it up on the web.

I looked but couldn't find anything about Welsh players being greedy. So please give me a link.

But I'll give you one example if you want one, Gethin Jenkins was offered a very good deal to stay at the Blues, ok it wasn't as good as his last one but it was the Blues who made him the player that he is, would a little bit of loyalty towards the Blues and the Blues fans really hurt?

Why on earth would the Blues want to keep Gethin Jenkins when he has played on average 13 games for them in each of the last 2 seasons.?

You've answered your own question for me. He is basically on about £25,000 - £30,000 a game.

I'd say "do the maths" but I fear you may not be capable.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Bigtrev

Do you always beleive what your Coach or ex captain told you, because there were a few words from Tindall I didn't quite buy, and MJ...

Well lets just leave that there!

Well you do have a point and to be fair before most International games between Wales & other nations I tend to ignore Gatts.

This time it's different - I dont believe he was trying to wind up anyone this time bar the WRU & maybe some Welsh fans but in this case I think he has a point.

You can of course ' Always look on the bright side of life.....

How much does he need?

£100000 was about a 40% pay cut, so his still on a good wage!

Show some loyalty Gethin.

Chunky - the maths last year were that Gethin got 20k for every game he didn't play - No brainer

I actually think this scenario is great as a lot of our youngsters and fringe players will get to develop and we'll unearth even more gems. Win win for me lads

HERSH wrote:How much does he need?

£100000 was about a 40% pay cut, so his still on a good wage!

Show some loyalty Gethin.

You must still be on your paper round with that attitude.

If not, you're a very disloyal, greedy person indeed.

HERSH

The blues are not broke, they have money but are seeing very promising players coming through so didn't feel the need to offer him a 250k contract.

The Blues didn't make him the player he is, they just invested him from the Warriors, infact he is from a part of the Valleys who were, and are fiercely anti - Cardiff!!

Your right Bath offered him a contract, and from what Ive heard from his freinds he turned that down because althout he wanted a big pay day he also wanted the opportunity of trophies, and well with the way the money is being spent down there you might as well be Greek!!!

Which overseas journey men are being signed by the Blues, from what I know they are letting a few go for Wales international possibilities, like the way Bath are buying for the future and to aid Englands cause...

The Pieman has been at the Blues from the start, is very carefull not to over spend and run up debts, and only spends when he can, the Blues are probably the most sound club in Europe, anyone else claim a no loss 3 years in a row?

thebluesmancometh wrote: the Blues are probably the most sound club in Europe, anyone else claim a no loss 3 years in a row?

What do you mean by no loss?