What is going on in Wales?

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Just when it looks like Wales might have become a dominate force in world rugby why is the WRU allowing its most talented players to play overseas?
One or two key players plying their trade else where can be a benefit to the squad but with the current exodus of players its must be a real worry for the fans, I can only see this hurting Wales chances come 2015.

It’s a tough call for these players as they only have a limited time to earn money playing rugby and the big bucks on offer in France makes it a no brainer when compared to their Region contracts, Gatland must be fuming with the current situation as its completely out of his hands, to be honest it wouldn’t surprise me if he walked away from it all, maybe the RFU could pull off a sneaky bid to tempt him away from the WRU?

Who knows what will happen, but I know one thing Wales’s chances of RWC glory in 2015 is beginning to slip away from them grasp due to individuals personal greed.

HERSH wrote:I can't believe people say this isn't a story!

A young player who has just broken into the international team says he'll consider it once his contract is up, his either holding out for a bigger contract from the Scarlets or is inviting interest from French clubs, this all smells like an Agents doing to me.

Greed.

Greed is the word for it HERSH. Guys these days have one or two good games in the countries shirt and then they want to cash in on it and flee off to follow the scent of money. Where's the so-called passion for the shirt? what of loyalty? I see this as a consequence of not having a national of the country coaching the international squad. If the union thinks nationality is just a tradable commodity, then it rubs off on the players.

It's not doom and gloom really though is it? Why wouldn't a young player like Priestland want to chase a big contract in more competitive league and in a nicer place to live?

sure Mitey, let's just ignore Jon Davies re-signing for the Scarlets then which disporves all of what you've just written


No offence guys, and I know you're wumming, but seriously, you're getting just a bit ridiculous.

I cant see anything in the Priestlland story myself. He was asked would he consider it, he answered that he would. Ask that to the majority of players in Wales, England, Scotland and Ireland and you may get a similar response.

rugbydreamer wrote:holding out? Why HERSH do you think he's already re-negotiating his contract, when there's two years to go on it?

I find it mildly embarrasing that there are so many English posters on this thread incapable of seeing the story for what it is. BUt hey, guess they can't wait to jump on the 'doom and gloom' Wales bandwagon. Now, I wonder why that could be.......

I expect he signed his contract when he wasn't the lynchpin in the Welsh team, stories like this are made to unsettle the club so that they offer him an improved deal before they lose him. but it would help his agents cause if a French club showed some interest, it's all about money I’m afraid.

I hope we don't go down the Football path.

There will always be the odd guy who perhaps, is good enough to gratefully make it into the national squad for his country, but perhaps isn't good enough to be of interest to any of the major clubs with money to spend. I'm not sure that disproves anything.

When I see young guys who've come through the U20's for a certain country and then can't wait to sign up for the senior team for a different country, I wonder about the societal values and the kinds of ethics that are being instilled. It breaks my heart, really it does.

your sincerity is astounding mitey.....


HERSH - if Priestland was in contract negotiations this season, what you say might make sense. As it is he's got two years to go, so think it's all nonsense, personally

rugbydreamer wrote:sure Mitey, let's just ignore Jon Davies re-signing for the Scarlets then which disporves all of what you've just written


No offence guys, and I know you're wumming, but seriously, you're getting just a bit ridiculous.

Did you only just realise?

That may be dreamer,

but Agents are greedy and crafty and sadly they often get what they want which is more money, the Scarlets won't want to lose him so they'll stump up more cash whether he has two years to go or not.

He'll have an improved deal within the next 6 months.

It gets so annoying that the same old wums manage to ruin almost every thread!

Of course this is all over the top bandwagon jumping and doom and gloom spreading. There's nothing in the stories about all Welsh players jumping ship to France - if there was then Hersh, Mitey and the crew wouldn't be wumming about it but would be giving more sensible posts (maybe)

"It gets so annoying that the same old wums manage to ruin almost every thread!"

Smirnoff, it's not called "WUMS ruining a thread", it's called "people not agreeing with you" and "you losing the argument".

Now please, just because that winds you up, it doesn't mean that the sole intention of the other posters is to wind you up.

Open your eyes this isn't wumming it's happening now.

This will affect all the home unions, something needs to be done now.

Mitey you scamp, you love a good WUM, be honest

I too am fed up with people using the word wum just because they have a different point of view or have no counter argument.

I'm merely concerned about player mobility, talent migration, the effect of the professional game on domestic player development, cash rich clubs dominating at the expense of the poor, and the effect that has on countries like Wales, Scotland and so on.

If that's WUMming Billy, then WUMming isn't a bad thing.

HERSH wrote:I too am fed up with people using the word wum just because they have a different point of view or have no counter argument.

Ok then HERSH. You're a scoundrel, is that better

HERSH - am actually able to discuss things with you on this thread, so no I wouldn't say you're wumming as you actually have a point.

Other posters though, whether they are intending to WUM or not, that's how it's coming across. I'm with Priest on this, it's getting very tiresome.

And with your point about Priestland re-negotiatiing his contract, I highly doubt he'll have negotiated it within 6 months. For the past few seasons, Scarlets have only been re-negotiating contracts in the season the current one is running out in, can't see them changing this for Rhys

rugbydreamer wrote:HERSH - am actually able to discuss things with you on this thread, so no I wouldn't say you're wumming as you actually have a point.

Other posters though, whether they are intending to WUM or not, that's how it's coming across. I'm with Priest on this, it's getting very tiresome.

And with your point about Priestland re-negotiatiing his contract, I highly doubt he'll have negotiated it within 6 months. For the past few seasons, Scarlets have only been re-negotiating contracts in the season the current one is running out in, can't see them changing this for Rhys

Especially as in the interview Priestland gave he only said he may consider it when in 2 years his contract runs out as a lot can change every season but he's currently happy at the Scarlets.

That's the reason I said the wumming gets tiresome, not because people disagree with me, but because some posters ignore any evidences other posters give against the sweeping statements they make. For example when dreamer has said that Priestland is very unlikely to leave/renegotiate his contract before it ends in 2 seasons and the interview with him doesn't say anything about a desire to leave before the end of his contract.

Rugbydreamer, to be completely honest, I rarely see you posting here without mentioning that something is "getting very tiresome".

I don't seem any Wumology in commenting on the modern trend for players to flirt with contract busting controversy to further their own ends.

In the modern contractual world, it's just a fact that when someone starts denying something in the press, it means they're either about to do it, want everyone to think they're about to do it or to open speculation and incentive from those with a vested interest in doing it. These things don't just happen on their own, it's an orchestrated litany of coordinated rumour mongery.

You can't see much of what I post then mitey

and as has already been pointed out, if Rhys' contract was up for renewal this season, what you're saying might be perfectly valid, it doesn't though, he's still got 2 years to go on it, so the stuff your spouting, just looks like nonsense to me I'm afraid.

Riiiiight. And there are zero notable Welsh players who have signed contracts and then left them mid way through? in fact, let's not pejoratively use "Welsh" in that sentence as though there aren't players in England, New Zealand, Australia and France who've all done the same thing.

Yes, he's got a contract already, well that's settled then.

Priestland was asked a question and he answered it. Why would he say no? It stands to reason that he will keep all his options open. It does not mean that he is in contract negotions or will be holding his club to ransom. He simply answered a question with the same answer that i would expect 90% of players currently asked would give.

Naive.

miteyironpaw wrote:Naive.

Dont be so hard on yourself mitey, we all make mistakes

Hersh, Some players who are in their late twenties or early 30s are moving to Eng or France. One exception is Aled Brew, but he's on the fringe of the Wales squad.

There's plenty of raw talent in Wales and younger players will get a chance to step up. The top players who go outside Wales to play will still be available to the national squad. There are plenty of good young players in all the regions.

There are some players that are crocked who will return -- such as the very talented Morgan Stoddart, who was in superb form before he got injured.

At the Ospreys, for example, young players like Eli Walker, Matthew Morgan and Dirksen are getting far more game time and will get better as a result. Jo Rees, who promises to be a good possibility as a longer-term replacement for Adam J, is now gaining game time, and Adam J remains at the Ospreys to help him and other young props develop.

As long as not too many players of our players go outside Wales, I think it increases our player pool for Wales and gives youth a better chance.

Big Players getting to their 28-30s have always gone for a last big contract (be it from ponty/ebbw to cardiff,to rugby league or to france or england) then some come back like s jones. young players r usually concentrating on establishing themselves

Very please to see that Charteris negotiated international release. The availability of Byrne, Hook and Phillips has been great too.

Our biggest problem is not with the senior players earning a good wage in France but with the PRL in England.

HERSH wrote:Just when it looks like Wales might have become a dominate force in world rugby why is the WRU allowing its most talented players to play overseas?

Simply because Wales does not have the money to compete with the wages that the French clubs can offer, and the WRU has sensibly avoided a big Sky TV contract over the years so people can watch the game on normal tv.

HERSH wrote:One or two key players plying their trade else where can be a benefit to the squad but with the current exodus of players its must be a real worry for the fans, I can only see this hurting Wales chances come 2015.

I think you have to look at who has left Wales and why, every few days it has been announced a player is leaving, but the vast majority are fringe players.
The only confirmed big name signing that is leaving Wales is Gethin Jenkins and it will probably only benefit him now he is 31. Even that is of no real worry because as a Welsh international he seldom plays for the Blues anyway!
All of the other players who are leaving are average squad players, or foreign players who are looking for a meal ticket elsewhere.

Huw Bennett might get a mention too, but he only had a spurt of form at the World Cup and has spent nearly all the past few seasons at the Ospreys making substitute appearences behind Hibbard. The truth is we still have 2 international hookers and a very promising Scott Baldwin who NEEDS games so we did not need Huw Bennett.

I don't expect the foreign players to have too much loyalty to Welsh teams as they are there because they are being paid well for it, and most of them do not really earn their money anyway. The money has dried up so they move on.

HERSH wrote:It’s a tough call for these players as they only have a limited time to earn money playing rugby and the big bucks on offer in France makes it a no brainer when compared to their Region contracts, Gatland must be fuming with the current situation as its completely out of his hands, to be honest it wouldn’t surprise me if he walked away from it all, maybe the RFU could pull off a sneaky bid to tempt him away from the WRU?

Wishful thinking but no, Gatland is well paid, is respected by Wales and his employers and has a lot of control. The shambles at the RFU is there for all to see, and I can't see him giving up on a job where is prospects and credibility are sky rocketing for one where he will have to start from scratch and the expectation is greater.

HERSH wrote:Who knows what will happen, but I know one thing Wales’s chances of RWC glory in 2015 is beginning to slip away from them grasp due to individuals personal greed.

Gethin Jenkins going away will not make much difference to our world cup prospects, people are pointing a doom and gloom picture but the Welsh do that to themselves each season only to realise that the exodus never really happens. I'd be suprised is Gethin is still in the squad after next season Lions tour, players like Bevington would of closed the gap on him in that time.

The only real player Wales need to look after is Adam Jones because at the moment we have not found a replacement for. Though we had the same situation with Martyn Williams, and we found Warburton and Tipuric in a couple of season so no worries!

Some of you are missing the main point, The Regions can't fill stadiums now what chance have they got when the team is made up of fring international, have beens overseas and youth players as all the superstars/crowd pullers have gone?

The regions can't fill stadiums due to political issues, feelings of disenfachisation and arguments over Stadia rental etc...

NOT BECAUSE OF PLAYER ROSTERS!!!

The Blues will fill the CAP week in week out with an the poor Bath lineup in a Blues kit if they move back there, how would Bath fnas react moving from the rec 10 miles closer to the M4, sharing with a football team in a 30k stadium after paying 3 x the rent they should? With the passion ive seen in Bath it'd just close the doors an turn the lights off...

HERSH wrote:Some of you are missing the main point, The Regions can't fill stadiums now what chance have they got when the team is made up of fring international, have beens overseas and youth players as all the superstars/crowd pullers have gone?

Haven't you seen the line-ups for the regions for the majority of every season - they are made up of exciting youth, Celtic League journeyment, fringe internationals and experienced old heads. All the internationals play around 10-15 games a season, so there won't be too much difference

What about the Ospreys?

I also fail to see what Bath have to do with it, our gate averages are far superior to that of any Region, bums on seat means more money, the regions are businesses and they are failing to pull in the punters, TV and merchandise can only keep your head above water for so long.

Put you biased views towards me to one side and please try and have a sensible debate as this is a very serious issue and one that deserves to be talked about without the silly put downs.

Hersh what do you mean 'What about the Ospreys?' in relation to which posts, mine or Bluesman?

and yes I'd love it if posters would have sensible debates with out silly put downs - but that would include you as well Hersh...

Can you guys quit with the bickering please? This is an interesting read, but it's sliding slowly towards trolling, wumming and counter wum.

Bums on seats are not the major source of income - TV, Sponsorpship, Mercandise are all key.

It helps but should not be used as the measure to determine teams respective income

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Hersh what do you mean 'What about the Ospreys?' in relation to which posts, mine or Bluesman?

and yes I'd love it if posters would have sensible debates with out silly put downs - but that would include you as well Hersh...

When have I done a putdown towards anyone on this post?

But I find it amazing that some fellow 606ers can't see the problems with regions losing their star players and empty stadiums.

Talk about turning off the lights and not bothering, who would really miss the Regions?

Where are the insults???

I merely asked a counter question to prove a point, the fact you ignored it speaks volumes of the reason you started this thread HERSHY.

As I said, internationals very rarely play pro 12 games anyway, so how will losing a very small number of them effect gate receipts?

If you knew more about Welsh rugby you might know the reasons the regions are struggling for numbers, instead of trying to poke the snake as you are doing here.

The Welsh sides are very competitive in european competition when you look at all the problems the regions have had since their inception JUST A FEW YEARS AGO!!!

For all of Wales problems losing a few 30 year olds, or fringe players who are not contributing massively to their regions (except a small few) is one of the smallest ones.

"I merely asked a counter question to prove a point, the fact you ignored it speaks volumes of the reason you started this thread HERSHY"

When you ask a question that isn't in an aggressive tone, I might answer it!

Plus I don't even think you have asked one yet on this thread.

C'mon lads. It's a great thread, let's not let it descend into this again.

how would Bath fnas react moving from the rec 10 miles closer to the M4, sharing with a football team in a 30k stadium after paying 3 x the rent they should?

In which way is that aggressive? It's a pertinant question that highlights the issues the Blues are having with fans, trying to move the club to remote part of the city outskirts to engage with a small amount of fans who do not accept the region as their own. There is no English or French club that could sell out their stadiums if they had done what the Blues have, and you obviously agree by avoiding answering.

You do have a tendancy to stir the pot then just ignore valid points, and respond to WUMMERY with WUMMERY.

But it's off topic!

HERSH wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Hersh what do you mean 'What about the Ospreys?' in relation to which posts, mine or Bluesman?

and yes I'd love it if posters would have sensible debates with out silly put downs - but that would include you as well Hersh...

When have I done a putdown towards anyone on this post?

But I find it amazing that some fellow 606ers can't see the problems with regions losing their star players and empty stadiums.

Talk about turning off the lights and not bothering, who would really miss the Regions?

Hersh you know as well as I that there's been huge amounts of wind-ups, put downs and name calling all over this forum as a whole which has destroyed interesting threads, particularly in the run-up to this years 6N's and post the WC.
Though this thread hasn't been as bad thankfully and no you haven't put anyone down (god that sounds sinister like that!) on this thread.

But what did you mean about the Ospreys?

Nobodies saying that there isn't any problems with Welsh rugby, but the Welsh internationals barely play and the only ones that have left for France/England are good players who aren't Stars (Charteris), fringe players (Brew, Mitchell, Reed), players who none of the other regions wanted (Byrne, Phillips, Hook) or a 30 year old who wanted a last big contract in much the same way that S Jones & G Thomas did (Jenkins).

Loosing the above players but keeping Warburton, Halfpenny, Henson, Roberts, A Jones, R Jones, Jon Davies, North, Webb, AWJ, Liam Williams, Stoddart, Lydiate & Faletau doesn't seem that bad to be honest.

The Scarlets have the biggest avg attendance out of the Welsh regions this season not coz they've got the best/most Welsh internationals (coz they haven't), but because their bringing through exciting youngsters (but of course it helps that we are keeping most of our players as are the other regions).

But if you want an answer!

Being a Bath fan I'd follow them anywhere. I wouldn't let politics and prejudices get in the way of that.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Loosing the above players but keeping .... Henson.... doesn't seem that bad to be honest.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Loosing the above players but keeping .... Henson.... doesn't seem that bad to be honest.

You know you love him PSW

And if they were no longer Bath, they combined with lets say London Irish, moved to Reading and were named the London Irish Greens???

Would you then go and watch the London Irish Greens play or stay and watch a lesser Bath RFC side? Because Pontypridd have a massive following for a premiership side, gate receipts beating most regional gates!

Ponty and Neath are getting decent crowds, and they are watching amateur rugby, and paying near the same as regional games. Both Ponty and Neath are having very high profile arguments with their regions, about players, regional structure, and even naming rights!

How can fans accept the regions when the biggest clubs in the regions won't?

Make sense?

We should have had Ponty and Neath as a Valley Commandos Region - Would have been brutal and well supported - Is it to late? - Swansea should have gone west with the Scarlets - Common sense really which is why it never happened. Valley Commandos Brutal - Swanlets - elegant and fast flowing

RubyGuby wrote:We should have had Ponty and Neath as a Valley Commandos Region - Would have been brutal and well supported - Is it to late? - Swansea should have gone west with the Scarlets - Common sense really which is why it never happened. Valley Commandos Brutal - Swanlets - elegant and fast flowing

Valleys Commandos - even the name envokes fear!

I think i'd be constantly looking over my shoulder to check that valleys folk armed to the teeth weren't sneaking up on me!

Bluesman...what your etalking about is effectively what happened to Lirish and Saracens and Wasps anyway...except without the added bonus that they were suppossed to bring over the suupport from multiple clubs.

If the London satelitte clubs were to be regionalised and bought out the Olmpic stadium theyd have no toruble selling it out on a regular basis, although it would annoy the heck out of many fans in teh short term,.

But then its only a few years since the Sarries fans were ripping up their seaosn tickets in disgust as they saw their club turned into a safrican feeder and millionaires plaything.
Suddenly becoming a serious force again soon shut them up.

Anyway thats not really the point is it. I think we all acknowlegdge there was myriad problems with the set up of the regions, and they are why most club supproted in England dread the RFU franchises and centralising our game for the greater good.

The issues in Wales go deep, and the player exodus is a symptom of that, but also something that will further weaken the regions appeal.