De Grand Finale match - begorrah! England v Ireland 17 March - Hic!

First topic message reminder :

The stage is set for a humdinger of a match next week today with the final match of the Championship hosting a revitalised England fresh from victory in France against their bogey team, Ireland.



Despite a recent run of victories - home and away - against England, Ireland never seem to have a problem in getting up for this match. The fact that it's in Twickenham on St Patrick's Day will give it that little extra edge.

Lancaster and his troops will want to sign off their first season in charge with a flourish. Kidney's Ireland, having been unlucky in the Welsh match, and kicking themselves after their draw in Paris, will want to put another good score and victory on the board.



Ireland will be without O'Connell again who did a lot of the pre-match talking in the build-up to last year's victory for the men in green. England seem full of confidence and it looks like Lancaster has found the right mix and belief that's going to make this grand finale a belter.

Are English fans feeling confident? Irish ones a bit more doubtful of continuing their English streak?


England: 15 Ben Foden, 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Manusamoa Tuilagi, 12 Brad Barritt, 11 David Strettle, 10 Owen Farrell, 9 Lee Dickson, 8 Ben Morgan, 7 Chris Robshaw (capt), 6 Tom Croft, 5 Geoff Parling, 4 Mouritz Botha, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Dylan Hartley, 1 Alex Corbisiero.
Replacements: 16 Rob Webber, 17 Matt Stevens, 18 Tom Palmer, 19 Phil Dowson, 20 Ben Youngs, 21 Charlie Hodgson, 22 Mike Brown.

Ireland: 15 R Kearney (Leinster), 14 T Bowe (Ospreys), 13 K Earls (Munster), 12 G D'Arcy (Leinster), 11 A Trimble (Ulster), 10 J Sexton (Leinster), 9 E Reddan (Leinster); 1 C Healy (Leinster), 2 R Best (Ulster, capt), 3 M Ross (Leinster), 4 D O'Callaghan (Munster), 5 D Ryan (Munster), 6 S Ferris (Ulster), 7 S O'Brien (Leinster), 8 J Heaslip (Leinster)
Replacements: 16 S Cronin (Leinster), 17 T Court (Ulster), 18 M McCarthy (Connacht), 19 P O'Mahony (Munster), 20 T O'Leary (Munster), 21 R O'Gara (Munster), 22 F McFadden (Leinster)


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Well i for one am glad that young spence is not out on the park although d'arcy and earls are operating very nicely too thank you very much.

I cant for the life of me see how England will get a foothold in the game let alone win the damn thing.

You beat us so much at twickers that its almost traditional now since 2003.

Your standard method is to at least hold us in the increasingly irrelevant scrums, destroy us in the lineout. play cleverly for territory but also to beast us in the contact.

Nothing i have seen why all of this wont happen again.

then you bring on ROG to toy with in the final quarter. Salt into the wounds.

If we get within 10 points of Ireland at the end and play some rugby i will be delighted.

were absolutely doooooomed. feckered.

he was and still is munkian..

Rodders its a hard one to call. I have a bad feeling we will run out of steam on the back of 4 games in 4 weekends. If England break even up front i think they will win.

We will need our best attacking performance yet to win and i am not talking random off the cuff moments of genius from Kearney,Bowe etc. We will need more. England have been good defensively.

Thought so, surprised he's not in the Irish setup this year - he's a very good ball carrier - remember him taking apart the Dragons

How badly does D'arcy have to play to be dropped from the side?

For the past few seasons we have only seen glimpses in an Irish shirt of what he is capable of

What do we have to lose by playing McFadden at IC

Crickey Triangle, you're worse than me.

Personally i think England have a real chance. Yes we are their bunny and it's Paddies day but the way Eng have played suggests they'll give it a real go.

Both France and Wales were meant to utterly dominate those areas you state too, and did not. I think we will have a serious contest and this young team are a good side. Ireland favourites but only just.

Eng have to find a way to get up for it though, they are never are fired up as Ireland and it has to change.

Team announced. Looks good. SOB back eh..!

Ireland team: R Kearney; T Bowe, K Earls, G D'Arcy, A Trimble; J Sexton, E Reddan; C Healy, R Best, M Ross; D O'Callaghan, D Ryan; S Ferris, S O'Brien, J Heaslip.
Replacements: S Cronin, T Court, M McCarthy, P O'Mahony, T O'Leary, R O'Gara, F McFadden.

This is a close one, I can't see Ireland getting through England via the centres, Wales had little change it that area as I believe Wales are much better in that area. Ireland's best chance is the wings, Tommy could equal or break the 6N try record. In reverse England have to blast though the Irish centres, if they do that Kearney will be nowhere to be seen. I suspect both sets of supporters are not confident but the pundits will go with their teams. I think England may sneak this one, if it is a Scottish ref the game is anybodies.

Triangulation wrote:were absolutely doooooomed. feckered.

+ 1

...... oh wait... you're talking about England......

Wales didn't get much change, but they did get some luck late on when Tuilis tired and the try came through the centres. I think Earls will be more of a threat the the English centres than Tuilagi will the Irish.

I think the key to this battle is the breakdown, with neither team having a specific 7, the pressure the tight 5 will bring to the opposition breakdown may be the sealing factor. I think Ireland usually have the edge there but without POC I'm just not sure Ireland have the grunt needed!

Yeah I think we have the edge at the breakdown, actually I have no doubt about that.

What I do doubt is that we can score enough points to win the game.

Ireland should be much better at the breakdown. Dominant at the lineout and parity in the scrum. The Irish halfbacks are better than the English but I do worry about the Irish midfield against Barrit and Tuilagi. The Irish back three are all in a good vein of form espescially Kearney who is back to his lions best. Whilst Englands wingers and Foden have all seemed out of sorts. The Irish should win this one but then I look at the midfield.

A course of antibiotics was needed to treat the infection, Sean O'Brien lost two kilos while ill.

http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2012/rugby/story/161095.html

Six Nations 2012: England's big-hitting Owen Farrell becoming the new Jonny Wilkinson

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9141873/Six-Nations-2012-Englands-big-hitting-Owen-Farrell-becoming-the-new-Jonny-Wilkinson.html

roddersm wrote:

Triangulation wrote:were absolutely doooooomed. feckered.

+ 1

...... oh wait... you're talking about England......

England are so out of this one that we may as well go out and give it a lash! Run the ball from everywhere and enjoy the experience out there - give the home support something in terms of a performance to be pleased about even if the result is a foregone conclusion in Ireland's favour.

I see Declan has given England ever chance by his predictable and wrong headed selection

I'm not as pessimistic as you Triangulation.

The way I see it:

Front rows are about even

Second rows – a slight edge to the Irish even without Oconnnell. DOC isn't great but he's better than Botha. I've seen sea cucumbers with better handling than him.

Back rows, again an edge to Ireland. Croft's in great form, Robshaw is solid and does good work while Morgan brings us some carrying ability, but the Irish three are just that bit more muscly and aggressive.

Halfbacks – evens here. Farrell's in better form although Sexton's the better player at the moment. Reddan and Dickson cancel each other out.

Centres – a clear edge to England I think. Barritt and Tuilagi will make ground and break tackles through the Irish midfield unless they get some help.

Back three – edge to Ireland. Kearney is playing like some sort of Irish god (is that what a leprechaun is?), although Foden is class too. Bowe is the best wing on the pitch.

But then when you factor in home advantage to England I reckon that makes things about even.

A tough one to call. Should be a great game

Triangulation wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Triangulation wrote:were absolutely doooooomed. feckered.

+ 1

...... oh wait... you're talking about England......

England are so out of this one that we may as well go out and give it a lash! Run the ball from everywhere and enjoy the experience out there - give the home support something in terms of a performance to be pleased about even if the result is a foregone conclusion in Ireland's favour.

I think Eustice has it fairly spot on.

I think Sexton is much better than Farrell, more dangerous and more creative, but if it comes to a place kicking duel then I would back Farrell for sure. The lad has nerves of steel, whereas there are a few question marks over Sexton at times.

I like Sexton's imperfection. I like that his mistakes grind into him, that he gets ratty, that he mouths his perfect 'French' when things don't work out, that he takes his annoyance out on team mates sometimes.

He's one complex intense young man. He'll continue to make errors that the metronome kickers won't but he's an enigma and I'm enjoying the journey.

Farrell has been consistently good, but Sexton on average has been better I’d say.

It’s going to be a ding dong. Really looking forward to it now…

SecretFly wrote:I like Sexton's imperfection. I like that his mistakes grind into him, that he gets ratty, that he mouths his perfect 'French' when things don't work out, that he takes his annoyance out on team mates sometimes.

He's one complex intense young man. He'll continue to make errors that the metronome kickers won't but he's an enigma and I'm enjoying the journey.

Ah Fly, yer ony great with de woids. That's him to a place-kicking tee. He's a perfectionist and his own worst critic. And the more top-level games he plays, the better he gets. As a leader too.

Sexton is the next Lions OH. For sure. Farrell has a long way to go to match him. Needs to improve and prove it in the HC and internationally, for another season or 2.
Remember Cipriani and the hulla-balloo over him? Same with Flood. Wait and see England fans, wait and see. I am sure he will prove it. Like the cut of his jib. Ice-cool.

This thread has turned into Sexton v Farrell?

If only that were it. Anyone can have a bad day so at least then we'd stand SOME small chance of robbing a victory.

I fear for our lads.

I very very nearly stopped watching the last 6N game between us and Ireland it was so painful to watch.

No reason to think that this might be any better. Plenty why it could be worse.

I was hoping that maybe just maybe the irish would be complacent or would somehow go easy on us.

Then Ferris tramples that hope with his big size 13 boot.

England 9 Ireland 32

and that is being optimistic

Eustace H Plimsoll wrote:I'm not as pessimistic as you Triangulation.

The way I see it:

Front rows are about even

Second rows – a slight edge to the Irish even without Oconnnell. DOC isn't great but he's better than Botha. I've seen sea cucumbers with better handling than him.

Back rows, again an edge to Ireland. Croft's in great form, Robshaw is solid and does good work while Morgan brings us some carrying ability, but the Irish three are just that bit more muscly and aggressive.

Halfbacks – evens here. Farrell's in better form although Sexton's the better player at the moment. Reddan and Dickson cancel each other out.

Centres – a clear edge to England I think. Barritt and Tuilagi will make ground and break tackles through the Irish midfield unless they get some help.

Back three – edge to Ireland. Kearney is playing like some sort of Irish god (is that what a leprechaun is?), although Foden is class too. Bowe is the best wing on the pitch.

But then when you factor in home advantage to England I reckon that makes things about even.

A tough one to call. Should be a great game

Plimsoll

You are delusional.

I am a realist.

optimis tic !!

even the most optimistic irish fan wouldnt even call that.

has england ever been beat by 23 at twickenham in a 6nations/5nations before!!

god i really have found someone far worse than me

I think it'll be really close but if the boys think like Tri then they may as well not even bother trying. But then they were written off like this in every game and believed in themselves far more than the fans did so who knows.

Christ this thread has become funny

it's like opposite day Billy.

Its given me a cracking laugh to be honest trebbs

bollix, wrong thread

oh ok, he's broken me Billy.

Ireland to win by 128 points, Sexton to be the first ever player to score a ton at Twickers.

Dont you be after being so negative about England trebss, i know how your mind works and its not good.... Stop it i say, STOP IT

keep it up i say!

nah Tri is right. They ought to cancel the damned game before the country gets so badly stuffed we all have to end ourselves.

still, you can then invade the country, clear out all the corpses and use it for raising those lovely race horses.

trebellbobaggins wrote:nah Tri is right. They ought to cancel the damned game before the country gets so badly stuffed we all have to end ourselves.

still, you can then invade the country, clear out all the corpses and use it for raising those lovely race horses.

Yes.

Quite right.

I am going for outside for a walk now. I may be gone for some time....

I shall be joining you when the end times come on Saturday. Go gently into the night brave soul.

With the week that's in it, I suppose it's time to throw in a couple of Paddy jokes. All at the Irishman's expense of course.

I'll start with a mild one. Feel free to add in sporting versions.

Paddy the Englishman, Paddy the Scotsman and Paddy the Irishman haven't seen each other for a couple of years, so they meet up for a drink.

As they get to talking they discover since they last met, they've all had a son born. Knocking back his third gin and tonic, Paddy the Englishman says: "It's funny because my son was born on Saint George's day, so we ended up calling him George."

Paddy the Scotsman has a sip of heavy and laughs:"Och, that's strange cos my son was born on St. Andrew's Day and we called him Andrew."

Paddy the Irishman leans forward excitedly, nearly knocking over his Guinness and says: "Jaysus that's exactly the same thing with my son Pancake"

On ye go now.

Guys! Emergency!.... does anyone know what TV channel this will be on in France?

Alternatively a good pub near Charles de Gaulle airport to watch this??

Cheers!

No body gave England a chance against France and looked what happend their eh?

But seriously this England team have got better as the tournament as gone on, and now with the last game of the tournament against Ireland on saturday, and with England having a chance, a very very slim chance of winning the tournament what makes you think England wont win?

I do belive this game will be a close game, i think it will go down to the wire with only a score between the 2 team. A bit like the France game.

Well that is what i am hoping will happen.

Tv5 or France 2 mate

There is also a pub in the airport that will show the match

Are you for real Billy?! You ligind sir!

Been in the same position mate

enjoy the drubbing Rodders, Ireland can't lose as the right hon Triangle rightly says.

I don't know why you don't just put the girls out, this is a done deal.

I think that you can even go to the bar at the Pullman? Hotel in the airport. They will show it there as well.

Nice one! Off to book some flights then, provided the plane doesn't crash I'm on to a winner!

Here chack this out rodders.

http://www.charlesdegaulleairport.co.uk/things-to-do/

majesticimperialman wrote:No body gave England a chance against France and looked what happend their eh?

But seriously this England team have got better as the tournament as gone on, and now with the last game of the tournament against Ireland on saturday, and with England having a chance, a very very slim chance of winning the tournament what makes you think England wont win?

I do belive this game will be a close game, i think it will go down to the wire with only a score between the 2 team. A bit like the France game.

Well that is what i am hoping will happen.

not sure if thats the case, i thought it was pretty obvious how france were playing(badly), england have a stronger win percentage in france over recent years, england were on a somewhat high even after a close loss, france were on a lull, frnace have been clueless for a long time, yet got to a world cup final, and i have to say in worse fashion than england did in 2007.. Its not that hard an acheivement

Its all about attitude, its all about who is more up for the game and who wants to win more when you have evenly matched teams, its all about history, its all about occasion!!

The problem i have with ireland although its at twickers, is that its paddys day- who will want the win more, on the other hand england seem more honest this time around, we seem to have players willing to give 100% and are full of passion. Its a tough call this one.. Id say its a 50/50 and england will edge it at the bookies due to home advantage!

To be honest i am more sceptical over this game than the french game. For some reason people go gooey over the french where normal rules dont apply!!. When england,scotland,ireland or wales lose its because they are rubbish etc etc. when france to it its because they are an enigma and gave the game away!!- the before isnt reality whatsoever, just that they are a goodish team with very good players yet are inconsistant but very beatable if the home nations are on there game.

eirebilly wrote:Here chack this out rodders.

http://www.charlesdegaulleairport.co.uk/things-to-do/

Some day I'm flying to the dam to buy you that pint billy!

Always welcome rodders