Kidney's record as Irish coach

2009: 5 wins
2010: 3 wins
2011: 3 wins
2012: 2 wins

We're getting progressively worse. For 2 years Kidney's been criticized for apparently having no gameplan. But this year and today particularly we have seen a gameplan emerge. And unfortunately it's what we all knew was all Kidney knew. Kick the ball up in the air and chase it. And that's it.

At the same time the Irish provinces are tearing teams apart with the best attacking rugby in Europe. Kidney is way out of his depth at this level, and is making Ireland a lot less than the sum of their parts. Which is the opposite of what a coach should do. Meanwhile Leinster are playing like the All Blacks. Why?

Joe Schmidt
Jono Gibbes
Greg Feek
and previously Kurt McQuilkin

Schmidt would be the best choice for Ireland coach - but I doubt you could tempt him away from a brilliant Leinster to a train crash Ireland.

Kidney really needs to go.

wales606 wrote:Schmidt would be the best choice for Ireland coach - but I doubt you could tempt him away from a brilliant Leinster to a train crash Ireland.

Kidney really needs to go.

+1 as the gen y's say

No scrum no attack....but nice try in deflecting attention away from the uselessness from some of the players. Today mostly from leinster..even before Ross went off.

Redden useless
Heaslip useless
O'BRIEN useless
Healey Useless
Darcy useless
Sexton non existent

Try discussing what happened today rather than making up something about kidney where he has to deal with the best props in Ireland not being Irish.

DOD wrote:No scrum no attack....but nice try in deflecting attention away from the uselessness from some of the players. Today mostly from leinster..even before Ross went off.

Redden useless
Heaslip useless
O'BRIEN useless
Healey Useless
Darcy useless
Sexton non existent

Try discussing what happened today rather than making up something about kidney where he has to deal with the best props in Ireland not being Irish.

The entire Irish team was hopeless today

Still, Kidneys tactics and selection have been awful

DOD wrote:No scrum no attack....but nice try in deflecting attention away from the uselessness from some of the players. Today mostly from leinster..even before Ross went off.

Redden useless
Heaslip useless
O'BRIEN useless
Healey Useless
Darcy useless
Sexton non existent

Try discussing what happened today rather than making up something about kidney where he has to deal with the best props in Ireland not being Irish.

didn't take long did it..........

Goosestepper wrote:

DOD wrote:No scrum no attack....but nice try in deflecting attention away from the uselessness from some of the players. Today mostly from leinster..even before Ross went off.

Redden useless
Heaslip useless
O'BRIEN useless
Healey Useless
Darcy useless
Sexton non existent

Try discussing what happened today rather than making up something about kidney where he has to deal with the best props in Ireland not being Irish.

didn't take long did it..........

To point out the facts...indeed you are correct.

Personally until today Ireland were the best side other than Wales inhe tournament. However the ever present weakness in the Irish scrum was exposed today and the midfield without BOD is weak in defence.

Midfield defence? Today or when are you talking about.

DOD wrote:

Goosestepper wrote:

DOD wrote:No scrum no attack....but nice try in deflecting attention away from the uselessness from some of the players. Today mostly from leinster..even before Ross went off.

Redden useless
Heaslip useless
O'BRIEN useless
Healey Useless
Darcy useless
Sexton non existent

Try discussing what happened today rather than making up something about kidney where he has to deal with the best props in Ireland not being Irish.

didn't take long did it..........

To point out the facts...indeed you are correct.

thank you for your insightful and balanced response.

DOD I agree it was the scrum more than anything which lost us today's game. It was eaten alive. But I'm talking about the bigger picture, and Ireland's development under this coaching team.

I don't care at all what province Irish players are from. They're Irish and it's the Ireland team. I hope you don't turn this post into a provincial slagging match. It's the worst thing about Irish rugby. Who cares what province an Irishman is from when he's wearing green?

DOD, I think the Irish midfield has been a weakness all through the six nations. I pointed it out before the Wales game and although it improved with the intorduction of Earls, Darcy doesnt do it for me at all anymore. Part of me would like to see Bowe moved to 13 as he is a powerful tackler and could be devestating in the midfield in broken play. For me the difference between Wales and Ireland was the midfield.

I do also think that the backrow balance is wrong without a scavenger openside and the tighthead is an obvious issue but jokes about Irish tightheads are older than the hills.

midfield was not the issue today, if it was a weakness the English centers didn't exploit it, or didn't need to!

They didnt need to Goose the scrum falling apart ended the game.

TycroesOsprey wrote:They didnt need to Goose the scrum falling apart ended the game.

perhaps they were too stunned by the capitulation in the scrum, think i saw one of English centers texting on his iPhone, he'd bugger all else to do!

What would Schmidt or Gibbes have done today that Kidney didn't?

What would they have done against Wales that will have won Ireland the game?

Whenever the players took possession to hand today they bottled scoring opportunities. I don't see how that's Kidney's fault.

From 2008-10 Wales' record under Gatland got progressively worse and it's worth mentioning we had the same reaction among Welsh fans on the old 606. Then we had a good RWC and now we're 6N champs again.

Just saying, maybe 'sack the coach' isn't always the answer.

I think everyone in Ireland knew the game was over when Tom Court came on, except Kidney.I don't think any other professional coach in the world would have Tom Court on the bench, as he has shown time and time again how good he is at giving away penalties.We have young props like Jamie Hagan who aren't the best in the world but still better then court.
D'arcy although he has been a brilliant player over the years for Ireland, needs to go.The fact that Kidney can't see that baffles me.

Knowsit17 wrote:What would Schmidt or Gibbes have done today that Kidney didn't?

What would they have done against Wales that will have won Ireland the game?

Whenever the players took possession to hand today they bottled scoring opportunities. I don't see how that's Kidney's fault.

From 2008-10 Wales' record under Gatland got progressively worse and it's worth mentioning we had the same reaction among Welsh fans on the old 606. Then we had a good RWC and now we're 6N champs again.

Ireland stood back in the Welsh game and allowed the big ball carriers way too much room. We should have closed that game out and not lost to a silly last minute penalty. Kidney has failed to add any sharpness or ruthlessness.

Gatland has done really well developing players into leaders and a fantastic team spirit

Knowsit17 wrote:What would Schmidt or Gibbes have done today that Kidney didn't?

What would they have done against Wales that will have won Ireland the game?

Whenever the players took possession to hand today they bottled scoring opportunities. I don't see how that's Kidney's fault.

From 2008-10 Wales' record under Gatland got progressively worse and it's worth mentioning we had the same reaction among Welsh fans on the old 606. Then we had a good RWC and now we're 6N champs again.

Just saying, maybe 'sack the coach' isn't always the answer.

Correct.

Hugo..you are talking Cr.p Hagan is nowhere near good enough yet. We don't have props end of story. End of game

DOD wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:What would Schmidt or Gibbes have done today that Kidney didn't?

What would they have done against Wales that will have won Ireland the game?

Whenever the players took possession to hand today they bottled scoring opportunities. I don't see how that's Kidney's fault.

From 2008-10 Wales' record under Gatland got progressively worse and it's worth mentioning we had the same reaction among Welsh fans on the old 606. Then we had a good RWC and now we're 6N champs again.

Just saying, maybe 'sack the coach' isn't always the answer.

Correct.

Hugo..you are talking Cr.p Hagan is nowhere near good enough yet. We don't have props end of story. End of game

so which is it DOD useless Leinster players or no props........

Agree completely with the original post. When you consider what Lancaster has come in and done with England I think we need to beg borrow an steal to buy Joe Schmidt before the kiwis take him and hand Declan his p45. Like the man but he isn't up to the modern game

need some Abramovitch style management maybe!

The scrum was the reason we lost today, or the reason we got mullered. It was not a problem with the midfield even though D'arcy should have gone long ago. And by the way it's Kidney's fault not Court's. Kidney shouldn't have insisted he cover tighthead and ignored the prob we have there. He should have pushed to get Hagan beneficial gametime somewhere.

Is Hagan really so good to warrant wanting to fast track him into the national side? The couple of times I've seen him play he's been outscrummaged anyway and that's at club level. What's to say he wouldn't get picked apart on the international scene and that he would have made a shred of difference today?

This entire scenario screams desperate. Ireland have serious issues as far as tighthead props go, whether that's anyone's fault I'm in no position to say.

Ireland cannot just blame the scrum for that loss today.

aucklandlaurie wrote: Ireland cannot just blame the scrum for that loss today.

Are you sure about that?

For me, I knew once Court came on that we woud struggle. Then after the first few scrums going backwards it was obvious it was a case of if any Irish player knocked it on, or even if an english player knocked it on, we were screwed. I think the scrums had a much bigger impact than what people realise.

Ireland were put in a corner were no matter what they would be going backwards and it showed. Fair play to England though a thoroughly deserved victory

We were playing exceedingly shoite before Court came on you know. And I despair at his continued use at tighthead. I can't really say anything other than he is not a tighthead, he is a loosehead. He plays loosehead for Ulster. He's a good loosehead. Not quite as good as Cian Healy, but a decent scrummaging loosehead.

The technique of scrummaging at tighthead is rather different. And so we are exposed again. Our scrum speaks for itself.

I'm not even annoyed, just flat out devastated.

Agree completely wit AK laurie. We had ball but were toothless to use it. The insistence on D'arcy who was so poor that the beeb did a half time feature, the impotence of our front five and our general lack of game plan othe than the garryowen is glaring. It is indefensible at this point. When you consider the success and attacking potency of the provinces it is abysmal. We got mullered in the scrum before court came on so let's not pretend otherwise.

Fair play to England though, they found a glaring weakness and hammered it. I have a feeling we will see more draconian sanctions on the provinces before we see any effect on kidney and his coaching team.

Notch wrote:We were playing exceedingly shoite before Court came on you know. And I despair at his continued use at tighthead. I can't really say anything other than he is not a tighthead, he is a loosehead. He plays loosehead for Ulster. He's a good loosehead. Not quite as good as Cian Healy, but a decent scrummaging loosehead.

The technique of scrummaging at tighthead is rather different. And so we are exposed again. Our scrum speaks for itself.

I'm not even annoyed, just flat out devastated.

Notch I meant I knew we were screwed once he came on at tighthead, I know he is a decent international loosehead. The problem I was pointing out is that he has been forced to play tighthead.

Also, if our scrum had not been obliterated like it was then it was still a game we would have been in and could have won. Not saying we would have just saying we were in it. The problem today was that no matter what the reason for a scrum, when there was one we were screwed and very few teams can cope with that scenario!

Did we seriously threaten the English line? Earls had a couple of breaks but within 5m? I don't recall

irishhoney
Where I come from with my comment was,to win a game you have to score more points than the opposition,I watched Ireland again this morning and am surprised how they put such little emphasis on scoring tries, Ireland was not looking to create with possession those situations from which tries arise.
The best opportunity Ireland had of scoring a try was in about the 79 th minute,and they recklessly kicked the ball away,at best there was a 50/50 chance that the wing could have regathered and scored.
I note non of the losing teams this morning scored a try.

Irishhoneymonster wrote:

Notch wrote:We were playing exceedingly shoite before Court came on you know. And I despair at his continued use at tighthead. I can't really say anything other than he is not a tighthead, he is a loosehead. He plays loosehead for Ulster. He's a good loosehead. Not quite as good as Cian Healy, but a decent scrummaging loosehead.

The technique of scrummaging at tighthead is rather different. And so we are exposed again. Our scrum speaks for itself.

I'm not even annoyed, just flat out devastated.

Notch I meant I knew we were screwed once he came on at tighthead, I know he is a decent international loosehead. The problem I was pointing out is that he has been forced to play tighthead.

Sorry honey (oh, thats weird...) I wasn't replying to you. We are in total agreement on this issue.

But I think the scrum is becoming a reason to not discuss;

1) How shocking D'Arcy was
2) How shocking both Reddan and O'Leary were
3) Especially some godawful box kicking
4) How clueless we look when we have the ball
5) How the only thing we have in or armoury seems to be kick and hope.

The scrum was the main disappointment but there were others.

Standulstermen wrote:Agree completely wit AK laurie. We had ball but were toothless to use it. The insistence on D'arcy who was so poor that the beeb did a half time feature, the impotence of our front five and our general lack of game plan othe than the garryowen is glaring. It is indefensible at this point. When you consider the success and attacking potency of the provinces it is abysmal. We got mullered in the scrum before court came on so let's not pretend otherwise.

Fair play to England though, they found a glaring weakness and hammered it. I have a feeling we will see more draconian sanctions on the provinces before we see any effect on kidney and his coaching team.

Ok Stand fair point, we were losing the scrum battle before Ross went off, but Kidney did allude to the fact that Ross was injured 15 mins before he went off( the RTE interview anyway I believe). But it went from slightly losing the scrum battle( when Ross was on) to being absolutely obliterated when he went off which def had a major impact on the game! Although other factors may have played a part, it was the scrum that was the major factore why we ended up being humped!

When Healy and Ross get it wrong it goes really wrong ala hc final last year.

Other problems heaslip should dropped straight away has been useless for 2 years. Sob is a great 6 or 8 but dreadful 7.

Reddan is muck and tol is no better. Sexton yet another poor game.

Kearney dr and earls the best of the irish

Honey

If Ross was injured 15 mins before he went off then that's too bad. With ball thi depth we gave alluded to andsquad building we have praised kidney for we are 1 injury away from annihilation. Not goodenough but not entirely kidneys fault. Picking TOL ad D'arcy is entirely his fault. Neither were form picks and were sto gaps (doc earlier over Ryan too). None of these paid off andwe have learnt nothing about other (more in form players). Unacceptable.

BlueMuff wrote:When Healy and Ross get it wrong it goes really wrong ala hc final last year.

Other problems heaslip should dropped straight away has been useless for 2 years. Sob is a great 6 or 8 but dreadful 7.

Reddan is muck and tol is no better. Sexton yet another poor game.

Kearney dr and earls the of the irish

Agree about Heaslip but not about Reddan, I really couldn't understand the thinking behind bringing O'Leary on. Not sure what you're trying to say about Kearney and Earls but if it's praise then I agree. I do agree with O'brien to 8 though Oh, and let's get rid of D'arcy too can we?

Agree with BM regarding Kearney and earls. Having criticised him in the past I felt today he was desperately looking for the offload with no support.

Heaslip, D'arcy, DOC, Ross, Healy, best, and potentially a 7 need looked at in the summer/autumn. Not to be dropped necessarily but to promote depth and alsoto rest some guys.

Notch wrote:

Irishhoneymonster wrote:

Notch wrote:We were playing exceedingly shoite before Court came on you know. And I despair at his continued use at tighthead. I can't really say anything other than he is not a tighthead, he is a loosehead. He plays loosehead for Ulster. He's a good loosehead. Not quite as good as Cian Healy, but a decent scrummaging loosehead.

The technique of scrummaging at tighthead is rather different. And so we are exposed again. Our scrum speaks for itself.

I'm not even annoyed, just flat out devastated.

Notch I meant I knew we were screwed once he came on at tighthead, I know he is a decent international loosehead. The problem I was pointing out is that he has been forced to play tighthead.

Sorry honey (oh, thats weird...) I wasn't replying to you. We are in total agreement on this issue.

But I think the scrum is becoming a reason to not discuss;

1) How shocking D'Arcy was
2) How shocking both Reddan and O'Leary were
3) Especially some godawful box kicking
4) How clueless we look when we have the ball
5) How the only thing we have in or armoury seems to be kick and hope.

The scrum was the main disappointment but there were others.

I agree with this. We looked bad in all facets of play I thought. Very little positivity IMO but I'd say Ryan was quite good, ferris was pretty awesome, Earls made some great breaks but can't link up after he has made them. kearney also looked good.

Some other things I'd add:
1) I think our backrow played ok today balance wise. SOB was good on the deck IMHO and Ferris was a wrecking ball while Heaslip was doing more of the unseen stuff in the trenches.
2) We lost the battle in the contact area so many times, I think this along with the scrum was pretty key.
3) Irish players continue not to be on the same wavelength as eachother in attack...at all

Very disappointing.
Healy and Ross have done well for us in the past I've no idea how it went so wrong today

I want a new coach.

I think a new coach (preferably someone from the SH) is needed to inject a modern approach to the game in to our team because Kidney is archaic in his style of play

Standulstermen wrote:Agree with BM regarding Kearney and earls. Having criticised him in the past I felt today he was desperately looking for the offload with no support.

Heaslip, D'arcy, DOC, Ross, Healy, best, and potentially a 7 need looked at in the summer/autumn. Not to be dropped necessarily but to promote depth and alsoto rest some guys.

The second break made by Earls shows the major problem with Ireland's attack, the only two Irish players who run support line are Earls and Bowe so if one of them makes the break there is only one option for them and they are the players most likely to make a break.

Standulstermen wrote:Honey

If Ross was injured 15 mins before he went off then that's too bad. With ball thi depth we gave alluded to andsquad building we have praised kidney for we are 1 injury away from annihilation. Not goodenough but not entirely kidneys fault. Picking TOL ad D'arcy is entirely his fault. Neither were form picks and were sto gaps (doc earlier over Ryan too). None of these paid off andwe have learnt nothing about other (more in form players). Unacceptable.

Ok fair enough but if Kidney had a hand in Ulster playing Court at Tighthead in one particular match then could he not have had a hand in having Hagan playing regularly for say Connaucht or even for another team? The fact is that Kidney has buried his head in the sand regarding this and decided the best option was to mould Court into a Tighthead which he is not.

We are in danger of labelling heaslips unseen work in the same bracket as DOC.

Our backrow were ok at best today because the front five were beasted. Ryan made a couple of awesome plays though

Not disagreeing with any of what you say honey


I feel somewhat dirty saying that sentence

heaslips unseen work haha. utter nonsense. he is a cocky so and so who talks the talk but hasnt walked the walk in a long time in a green jersey. he needs a canny coach to drag him aside and say right jamie you think you are the best number 8 in the world newsflash you are not. f*ck off and come back to me when you play like one. worst number 8 in the 6 nations campaign

darcy should be sent to the glue factory at international level.how bad must he play to be dropped??? its comical.

donners sole contribution is roaring CHOKE and MAUL REF. he used to save his best performances for England but even those days are gone. ryan made some great plays and some mistakes but was the best of the front 5 no doubt about it

Standulstermen wrote:We are in danger of labelling heaslips unseen work in the same bracket as DOC.

Our backrow were ok at best today because the front five were beasted. Ryan made a couple of awesome plays though

Not disagreeing with any of what you say honey


I feel somewhat dirty saying that sentence

lol don't feel dirty, but if truth be told i am quite dirty

The point is that D'arcy should have been dropped a year or more ago, O'callaghan should have been dropped at the beginning of this year at least and O' Leary should not be anywhere near the bench. Also to be honest Heaslip should be told he needs to earn his place again. The backrow should prob be Ferris, O'Brien and O' Mahony

One thing I would say regarding D'arcy and this isn't directed towards kidney but the meeja. Paddy Wallace has never ( and I mean never) been that bad in green.

I've been one of the main supporters of ferris-heaslip-sob and....

1) I do think sob is a good 7 not great by good and is improving a lot. He actually affects a lot of turnovers. He is the same kind of 7 as Wallace too.

2) heaslip is more crucial to the team than I think people give him credit for.

That being said I do think we should start playing ferris-sob-pom from te start with heaslip on the bench

Also have thought for a year now that there is not one aspect of darcys game that is better than paddy wallaces

absolutely stand.

fact is under deccie certain lads own the jersey. its beyond unhealthy. darcy has been atrocious for a long time now. its comical that he had not been dropped yet. clearly we have lower standard than any other country in 6 nations in certain positions

he has shown ruthlessness at half back but he is blinded in certain positions. try something for the love of god. i refuse to believe mc fadden, wallace, whitten etc could play so poorly

got the right hump. beaten out the gate today. ferris and kearney giving it the big one looks rather foolish now,

Standulstermen wrote:One thing I would say regarding D'arcy and this isn't directed towards kidney but the meeja. Paddy Wallace has never ( and I mean never) been that bad in green.

I agree in certin respects Stand, but we are no stuck with EOS2. And that is really weird I really thought Kidney had balls but instead he has little tiny bits of grit

Sob is a decent 7. He could be and to a large extent is a fantastic 6 or 8. Ferris is undroppable at present. Bye bye Jamie imo

Wouldn't disagree stand. Would also replace doc with someone (poc hopefully and then bring in tuohy and toner for the bench.)

Darcy needs to go to for Wallace or mcfadden

DOD wrote:No scrum no attack....but nice try in deflecting attention away from the uselessness from some of the players. Today mostly from leinster..even before Ross went off.

Redden useless
Heaslip useless
O'BRIEN useless
Healey Useless
Darcy useless
Sexton non existent

Try discussing what happened today rather than making up something about kidney where he has to deal with the best props in Ireland not being Irish.

Trying to make it into a provincial argument to deflect attention from the uselessness of Kidney.3 years of continued decline despite the quality of players at his disposal improving is indefensible.

Try discussing what Kidney has overseen for the last 3 years rather than using one off matches as examples,overall he's the man responsible and he has turned us into also rans.