Clark/Hawkins incident from todays LV cup final

Have a look at the youtube video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d_5Vlsyekio

After the whistle has gone, When Clark gets up he bends Hawkins right arm the wrong way. It's being reported that it dislocated his arm. What are your thoughts on it, should Clark be cited and banned?

In my mind it looks deliberate and therefore should see a fairly long ban. What do you guys think?

Thats awful. You can hear the victimised player screaming! Actually screaming.

He's gone, sorry. He's going to be out of the game for a while. That's genuine thuggery; it's certainly not 'hard' to deliberately dislocate the arm of someone trapped in the bottom of a ruck. He's gone.

I am actually horrified by seeing that, that's genuinely disgusting.

I wouldn't be displeased if that guy never plays rugby again. That sort of behaviour has no part in our game at all.

i was just saying in another thread that it's gone all quite, all tweets (regarding this issue) on tigers twitter account have just been removed. I'm thinking there might be criminal action against him.

Might be worth us not commenting on it any more on here then until we hear anything more about it. You never know with cases like this.

well I am just guessing and I'm no Sherlock Holmes, so not 100% sure.

Okay, I'll leave it at that.

What kind of length a ban could he be looking at? He has a fair chunk of previous at his young age. Comparable with gouging if it was intentional (and it looked it).

hmmm, well, no mention really of criminal action on the tigers forum. Would be interesting to see the incident from another angle. All I can say really from that footage, is that it looks pretty damning on Clarke.

It's worth noting that Hawkins had to leave the field injured immediately after that incident. Probably dislocated shoulder.

rugbydreamer wrote:hmmm, well, no mention really of criminal action on the tigers forum. Would be interesting to see the incident from another angle. All I can say really from that footage, is that it looks pretty damning on Clarke.

i should think it would be removed pretty pronto from there!

Well the thread discussing it is still up on both the tigers and saints' fan forum so guess it should be okay to discuss it here. Any sign that it's not, I shall just remove the thread

ah cool, thought you meant that there was no discussion at all.

I didn't realise he had prior work!

http://www.rugbydump.com/2008/06/582/young-calum-clark-red-carded-for-a-head-butt-jwc

blimey, that's a pretty damning write up on him.

Oh my goodness!!!!

If that is as bad as it looks the Saints player should never be seen on a rugby pitch again.

No place for that at all.

That looks bad and he even looked back to admire his handy work.

Good old fashioned punch up is one thing but trying to deliberately injure a defenseless opponent has no place in our sport.

a clip of his previous red card:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNgWg8kGMWk

This guy has serious, serious discipline issues.

MrsP - in complete agreeness with you!

nathan wrote:ah cool, thought you meant that there was no discussion at all.

I didn't realise he had prior work!

http://www.rugbydump.com/2008/06/582/young-calum-clark-red-carded-for-a-head-butt-jwc

Jeez Louise.
That's blatent thuggery in the rugbydump clip.
Rugby is tough enough without that kind of crap and the smirk on his face when he was red carded deserved a damn good telling off. Like your Mum used to give you at the age of 12 only to get another when your Dad got home.
Maybe the bloke needs help as any player who behaves like that can very well end up doing time.
As for today's incident, the youtube footage is not conclusive for me. Not on my ancient PC anyway. Look's nasty though.

CD - we need to see it from another angle really to draw and real conclusions, but all I will say is that it does look very bad, and if it's as bad as it is appearing, the guy should not be playing rugby.

How much more evidence is needed ? He pulled his arm back after the whistle had gone

I'd still like tos ee it from another angle Cymro, maybe just hoping it isn't as bad as it appears?

pretty disgusted by some of the comments on the saints forum, i know we all stick up for our own team but comments saying there was nothing wrong it is clearly not going to help the game. Players have enough injuries as it is.

rugbydreamer wrote:CD - we need to see it from another angle really to draw and real conclusions, but all I will say is that it does look very bad, and if it's as bad as it is appearing, the guy should not be playing rugby.

Agreed.

rugbydreamer wrote:CD - we need to see it from another angle really to draw and real conclusions, but all I will say is that it does look very bad, and if it's as bad as it is appearing, the guy should not be playing rugby.

i understand what your saying, but there was no reason for him to be pulling the arm back that far after the whistle had gone. IMO he should be cited for foul play but as you say we need to see it from another angle to how long he gets.

nathan wrote:pretty disgusted by some of the comments on the saints forum, i know we all stick up for our own team but comments saying there was nothing wrong it is clearly not going to help the game. Players have enough injuries as it is.

In my experience, the majority of Saints fans are good eggs and I doubt very much they would stick up for a player simply because he/she was one of theirs. Thuggery has no place in the game and I certainly would condemn any Cardiff player who crossed the line with malice aforethought.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

nathan wrote:pretty disgusted by some of the comments on the saints forum, i know we all stick up for our own team but comments saying there was nothing wrong it is clearly not going to help the game. Players have enough injuries as it is.

In my experience, the majority of Saints fans are good eggs and I doubt very much they would stick up for a player simply because he/she was one of theirs. Thuggery has no place in the game and I certainly would condemn any Cardiff player who crossed the line with malice aforethought.

Completely agree with you, Being a Leicester fan i have a fair few mates who support them. All of them i've spoken too agree it didn't look good. But there's just 1 or 2 on their forums who are posting some silly stuff. Suppose you get those sorts with every team.

nathan they know that he was out of order but they just cant admit it.

nathan wrote:

Completely agree with you, Being a Leicester fan i have a fair few mates who support them. All of them i've spoken too agree it didn't look good. But there's just 1 or 2 on their forums who are posting some silly stuff. Suppose you get those sorts with every team.

Unfortunately you're quite right.

I have to say, unless somebody can show me another clip from another angle that shows something completely different to what I've just seen, then that is a disgraceful act.

It is cowardly and has no place in the game. That is on a par with gouging for me and deserves a very long spell out of the game to think about his actions.

Well, look, he will be cited. Hawkins went off injured so Leicester are sure to know exactly what happened. The video evidence I've seen is pretty nasty. And he has previous.

So I'm sure we'll be hearing about an official complaint and citing soon and based on the above justice will almost certainly be forthcoming.

The real question is a much more thorny one and that is could Clark be charged with 'causing grievous bodily harm with intent'? (Did I get that right LDC Pete?) despite being on a rugby pitch.

In short yes.

There is implied consent to assault in rugby and acts within the laws of the game have a statutory defence in relation to the criminal offence. This act fell well outside the laws of the game and therefore would have no defence in law.

That is disgusting and embarrassing to sport in any sport.

He's not the type of player I want to see in a England jersey or on a rugby pitch

Inexcusable. Unless another angle shows something completely different then he deserves a very very lengthy ban and I don't want him playing for the team I support. No matter what had happened in the game until this point there is absolutely no justification whatsoever in the players actions. The punishment should be no different from eye gouging.

I hate it when professional sport can't police itself and the actual authorities get involved but he only has himself to blame if it happens this time. Total idiot and I only hope the Tigers player makes a full recovery.

What is it with Northampton and bad dicipline and thugery. They are not doing themselves any favours, the youngsters are probably looking at Ashton, Hartley, Lawes and trying to emulate them, honestly what are they teaching them at this club ?

Calum Clark is a nasty piece of work.

I do agree Saints fans are a good bunch - unfortunately you cannot say the same about the team. A number of unpleasant characters.

I can't tell anything from the video. I don't see a report on either the ESPN Scrum or BBC web sites mentioning the incident. Was there a citing?

Notch wrote:Well, look, he will be cited. Hawkins went off injured so Leicester are sure to know exactly what happened. The video evidence I've seen is pretty nasty. And he has previous.

So I'm sure we'll be hearing about an official complaint and citing soon and based on the above justice will almost certainly be forthcoming.

The real question is a much more thorny one and that is could Clark be charged with 'causing grievous bodily harm with intent'? (Did I get that right LDC Pete?) despite being on a rugby pitch.

Its relatively simple, any assault with intent is GBH. If you injure somebody whilst defending yourself or it can be proven that the intent was not to injure, its ABH.

So GBH then. Fair enough.

Doc, I'd wait and see. 9am on Monday is a bit early for news of a citing to come out.

The video looks pretty damning but we'll have to wait and see what is made of it by the citing official. Tigers have a no citing policy and so tend not to make complaints about on field incidents. Maybe this will make an exception to that and maybe that was the reason Big Jules didn't come on (he does believe in two wrongs making a right).

Looks nasty. Surely a hefty ban for Clark.

I know it's being pedantic but could someone please change the title. It's Clark with no e. Normally I wouldn't care but Saints also have a centre called Clarke.

beshocked wrote:Looks nasty. Surely a hefty ban for Clark.

I know it's being pedantic but could someone please change the title. It's Clark with no e. Normally I wouldn't care but Saints also have a centre called Clarke.

Updated them for you, sorry about that!

Jesus that's disgusting, what ever about hitting a guy in a rugby match, that kind of stuff isn't on in my opinion.

Equo Troiano wrote:

Notch wrote:Well, look, he will be cited. Hawkins went off injured so Leicester are sure to know exactly what happened. The video evidence I've seen is pretty nasty. And he has previous.

So I'm sure we'll be hearing about an official complaint and citing soon and based on the above justice will almost certainly be forthcoming.

The real question is a much more thorny one and that is could Clark be charged with 'causing grievous bodily harm with intent'? (Did I get that right LDC Pete?) despite being on a rugby pitch.

Its relatively simple, any assault with intent is GBH. If you injure somebody whilst defending yourself or it can be proven that the intent was not to injure, its ABH.

Not quite correct the Equo. ABH or GBH relates to the extent of injury and has nothing to do with intent. There are two classications within GBH. One is a straightforward GBH and the other is GBH with intent.

That is horrible, I hope Hawkins recovers soon.

I know we should reserve judgement until all the evidence is available but from that angle is doesnt look good for Clarke.

Noticeable how quiet ( as usual) Tigers have been on this issue. No trail by media asked for, which is good for the game.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Noticeable how quiet ( as usual) Tigers have been on this issue. No trail by media asked for, which is good for the game.

+1

However it would be nice to know if they had raised it (against their usual practice) or if the citing official noticed it. The commentary team certainly didn't (although they were probably thinking about what they were going to say next rather than the game). I really hope this doesn't slip through the cracks.

Equo Troiano wrote: Its relatively simple, any assault with intent is GBH. If you injure somebody whilst defending yourself or it can be proven that the intent was not to injure, its ABH.

Well unless the law has changed in the last 20 years that isn't true.

I was the victim of an assault and in court it was stated I did nothing to provoke it and the guy got done for ABH not GBH.

I think Richard Cockerill referred to it in his post match interview.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17355002

MrsP wrote:I think Richard Cockerill referred to it in his post match interview.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17355002

Hawkins- that looked a little bit nasty, we'll have to have a look at that because it looked like that was done on purpose.

I know that the wheels are probably turning behind the scenes, but I'm anxious enough to want to see this dealt with promptly because it's a genuinely nasty thing for the game. Paradoxically, it's for the best if the media are kept out of these kinds of things even though we'll complain about being in the dark

MrsP wrote:I think Richard Cockerill referred to it in his post match interview.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17355002

he did indeed, good spot mrsp!

Can't see it anywhere else in the media though.