Top Four Wins And Losses

Hard draw, easy draw, bad luck, good luck... Who have the top players beaten to hold a place at the top of the rankings?

This is a break down of the rankings of the players that the top 4 have beaten since the beginning of 2011. I have counted retirements but not walkovers.

Win loss ratio against other players in the top 4

Djokovic 12/3. 13 matches
Nadal 8/10. 18 matches... and we all know where 7 of those losses came...
Federer 7/10. 17 matches
Murray 3/8. 11 matches

Win loss ratio against players ranked 5 - 20

Djokovic 20/7. 27 matches
Nadal 16/5. 21 matches
Federer 24/5. 29 matches
Murray 16/3. 19 matches

Win loss ratio against players ranked 21 - 50

Djokovic 27/0. 27 matches
Nadal 25/3. 28 matches
Federer 26/0. 27 matches
Murray 21/2. 23 matches

Djokovic and Federer have not lost a match to a player ranked outside the top 20. Only Murray has lost to players ranked outside the top 50 (to players ranked 92, 118 and 143).

I think you may have omitted Federer's Miami loss to Roddick as regards the category of players ranked outside Top 20.

It's an easy mistake to make, given that you have to go way back to June 2010 for his previous such loss. Oddly enough it came in a similar upset, also over 3 sets, when he was surprisingly defeated by Hewitt, (at Halle) another guy who - like Roddick - has suffered torture for many years at the hands of Federer

We're almost back to the days when bonus points were awarded to players beating the really top players. This was introduced, I think, at a time when the top 10 were much, much better than all the others.
It was dropped around 10-12 years ago. It was seen as unfair. One guy could knock out big seeds left right and centre in one half of the draw and get shedloads of bonus points while someone else in the other half would get just as far but without any, or many, bonus points.
Don't think they will ever bring back the old bonus system. But certainly a win against the top four by anyone outside, say, the top 20 is becoming a rarity.

lags72

I used the stats from the ATP site. Miami hasn't been included yet but you are correct Roddick is currently ranked at 34.

sirfredperry

I'm curious. This bonus point thing was used only only 10 -12 years ago. Do you know how it worked?

I think the current system is just about perfect and personally would not wish to see it tampered with. It is designed wholly around the principle of benchmarking consistency allied to a grading of the level of 'difficulty' posed by the various tournaments ; and to me that 's pretty much how the performance in any sport - whether individual or team-based - must always be judged and rewarded.

Murray only 3 wins in 11 matches against the 3 above him? That's not great.

5 of those defeats at grand slam level of course, and only 1 of those defeats was a match in which he played well enough for long enough to threaten a win.... But then that was the last one, vs Nole a couple of months ago.

Interesting stats.

In an article posted just after IW, I included some stats of how the top four have been performing against each other since the start of 2010.

Thought they might bear repeating here, given the context of HE's current article.

As well as the top four, I actually added Del Potro to the mix, on the basis that for so long we all regarded him as a member of the 'elite' tier (esp. in wake of USO 09 of course), but as we know recent results indicate that he still has some way to go, even though now fully fit again. I won't take him out 'cos I'll have to re-work all my percentages (can't be bothered... ). Also, like HE, I have not included Miami, given that it's not (quite...!) finished

Anyway, for those interested, here goes :

Djokovic

vs. Djokovic -

vs. Nadal 7-2

vs. Federer 5-5

vs Murray 3-2

vs. Del Potro 1-0

Overall W/L 16-9 64%


Nadal

vs Djokovic 2-7

vs Nadal -

vs Federer 5-3

vs Murray 6-3

vs Del Potro 2-0

Overall W/L 15-13 53%


Federer


vs Djokovic 5-5

vs Nadal 3-5

vs Federer -

vs Murray 3-2

vs Del Potro 5-0

Overall W/L 16-12 57%


Murray

vs Djokovic 2-3

vs Nadal 3-6

vs Federer 2-3

vs Murray -

vs Del Potro 0-0

Overall W/L 7-12 37%



Del Potro

vs Djokovic 0-1

vs Nadal 0-2

vs Federer 0-5

vs Murray 0-0

vs. Del Potro -

Overall W/L 0-8 0%

2011 Nole vs Fedal 10:1, now that's some ratio

nitb : yep, very impressive !

And that's why he's a (very strong) World No.1 ......

How many times did Novak and Roger meet in 2011 and upto now in 2012? Let us exclude exos.

Manojchandra wrote:How many times did Novak and Roger meet in 2011 and upto now in 2012? Let us exclude exos.

I don't think they played in 2012.

noleisthebest wrote:2011 Nole vs Fedal 10:1, now that's some ratio

Yeah but that's unfair to mix Federer in that ratio.

It was 3/1 but should have been 2 all between Fed and Djoko. Lucky escape there NITB...I know you don't want to hear the word luck...but luck it was...

Manojchandra wrote:How many times did Novak and Roger meet in 2011 and upto now in 2012? Let us exclude exos.

5 meetings in 2011 : Novak took four of them (Fed's only win coming at RG, where he famously broke Novak's amazing winnning streak)

10 meetings since 2010 : Shared at 5 wins each

No meetings in 2012 thus far

Overall career H2H stands at 14-10 in favour of Federer

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:2011 Nole vs Fedal 10:1, now that's some ratio

Yeah but that's unfair to mix Federer in that ratio.

It was 3/1 but should have been 2 all between Fed and Djoko. Lucky escape there NITB...I know you don't want to hear the word luck...but luck it was...

Yes, particularly when I remember those 7 set poinst in USO 2007 final 2011 Nole would've not missed a single one of those....Experience, hey?