Tour Captain Choices of the Home Nations

First topic message reminder :

Lets look at who the board rate as the best possible tour captain for the Lions next year.

Pick Who you recommend as being the tour captain from the Poll below.

maestegmafia wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:Why is Hartley not on this list?

If you can make a valid case as to why Dylan Hartley should be included, then i will ask a moderator if we can add him.

Though reading the concerns of posters below as to whether the leading candidates may be too likely to suffer an injury diminishing their chances, possibly the same applies to a player who has served to recent and lengthy bans for unacceptable behaviour, eye gouging and biting an opponent.

The later being reasons why the other Home Nations may not think him a valid candidate.

I did not include him because I didn't consider him a likely candidate, I'm not sure he will even tour.

Best & Hartley are nailed on tourists.

maestegmafia wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:Why is Hartley not on this list?

If you can make a valid case as to why Dylan Hartley should be included, then i will ask a moderator if we can add him.

Though reading the concerns of posters below as to whether the leading candidates may be too likely to suffer an injury diminishing their chances, possibly the same applies to a player who has served to recent and lengthy bans for unacceptable behaviour, eye gouging and biting an opponent.

The later being reasons why the other Home Nations may not think him a valid candidate.

I did not include him because I didn't consider him a likely candidate, I'm not sure he will even tour.

You included a very recently banned off-the-ball spear-tackler in the locks poll so I guess it just depends on the nationality when you're putting the polls together.

sugarNspikes wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:Why is Hartley not on this list?

If you can make a valid case as to why Dylan Hartley should be included, then i will ask a moderator if we can add him.

Though reading the concerns of posters below as to whether the leading candidates may be too likely to suffer an injury diminishing their chances, possibly the same applies to a player who has served to recent and lengthy bans for unacceptable behaviour, eye gouging and biting an opponent.

The later being reasons why the other Home Nations may not think him a valid candidate.

I did not include him because I didn't consider him a likely candidate, I'm not sure he will even tour.

You included a very recently banned off-the-ball spear-tackler in the locks poll so I guess it just depends on the nationality when you're putting the polls together.

First time offenders are always treated differently to repeat offenders.

maestegmafia wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:Why is Hartley not on this list?

If you can make a valid case as to why Dylan Hartley should be included, then i will ask a moderator if we can add him.

Though reading the concerns of posters below as to whether the leading candidates may be too likely to suffer an injury diminishing their chances, possibly the same applies to a player who has served to recent and lengthy bans for unacceptable behaviour, eye gouging and biting an opponent.

The later being reasons why the other Home Nations may not think him a valid candidate.

I did not include him because I didn't consider him a likely candidate, I'm not sure he will even tour.

You included a very recently banned off-the-ball spear-tackler in the locks poll so I guess it just depends on the nationality when you're putting the polls together.

First time offenders are always treated differently to repeat offenders.

The other offence you bring up was how long ago now?

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Best & Hartley are nailed on tourists.

According to the polls far from it.

Dylan Hartley 18% [ 21 ]
Rory Best 37% [ 43 ]
Ross Ford 15% [ 18 ]
Matthew Rees 17% [ 20 ]

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Best & Hartley are nailed on tourists.

According to the polls far from it.

Dylan Hartley 18% [ 21 ]
Rory Best 37% [ 43 ]
Ross Ford 15% [ 18 ]
Matthew Rees 17% [ 20 ]

Yet, he's ahead of Rees who you put forward as a captain. Along with Gethin Jenkins for some reason who struggles to scrummage and is hardly a seasoned captain for club or country. Weird.

sugarNspikes wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:Why is Hartley not on this list?

If you can make a valid case as to why Dylan Hartley should be included, then i will ask a moderator if we can add him.

Though reading the concerns of posters below as to whether the leading candidates may be too likely to suffer an injury diminishing their chances, possibly the same applies to a player who has served to recent and lengthy bans for unacceptable behaviour, eye gouging and biting an opponent.

The later being reasons why the other Home Nations may not think him a valid candidate.

I did not include him because I didn't consider him a likely candidate, I'm not sure he will even tour.

You included a very recently banned off-the-ball spear-tackler in the locks poll so I guess it just depends on the nationality when you're putting the polls together.

First time offenders are always treated differently to repeat offenders.

The other offence you bring up was how long ago now?

Five years. You can find it online if you use google search. Hartley Eye gouged a player and was banned for 26 weeks.

maestegmafia wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:Why is Hartley not on this list?

If you can make a valid case as to why Dylan Hartley should be included, then i will ask a moderator if we can add him.

Though reading the concerns of posters below as to whether the leading candidates may be too likely to suffer an injury diminishing their chances, possibly the same applies to a player who has served to recent and lengthy bans for unacceptable behaviour, eye gouging and biting an opponent.

The later being reasons why the other Home Nations may not think him a valid candidate.

I did not include him because I didn't consider him a likely candidate, I'm not sure he will even tour.

You included a very recently banned off-the-ball spear-tackler in the locks poll so I guess it just depends on the nationality when you're putting the polls together.

First time offenders are always treated differently to repeat offenders.

The other offence you bring up was how long ago now?

Five years. You can find it online if you use google search. Hartley Eye gouged a player and was banned for 26 weeks.

Exactly. Five years ago.

sugarNspikes wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Best & Hartley are nailed on tourists.

According to the polls far from it.

Dylan Hartley 18% [ 21 ]
Rory Best 37% [ 43 ]
Ross Ford 15% [ 18 ]
Matthew Rees 17% [ 20 ]

Yet, he's ahead of Rees who you put forward as a captain. Along with Gethin Jenkins for some reason who struggles to scrummage and is hardly a seasoned captain for club or country. Weird.

Yes you are correct. Gethin Jenkins, regarded as one of the best looseheads in the world by most rug y pundits and fans a like, skippered Wales to two wins in this years six nations. Matthew Rees returning from injury but a Lions test starter last tour and experienced, respected club and national Captain.

Nothing "Wierd" about that at all.

Do you have a point? Is it about rugby?

sugarNspikes wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:Why is Hartley not on this list?

If you can make a valid case as to why Dylan Hartley should be included, then i will ask a moderator if we can add him.

Though reading the concerns of posters below as to whether the leading candidates may be too likely to suffer an injury diminishing their chances, possibly the same applies to a player who has served to recent and lengthy bans for unacceptable behaviour, eye gouging and biting an opponent.

The later being reasons why the other Home Nations may not think him a valid candidate.

I did not include him because I didn't consider him a likely candidate, I'm not sure he will even tour.

You included a very recently banned off-the-ball spear-tackler in the locks poll so I guess it just depends on the nationality when you're putting the polls together.

First time offenders are always treated differently to repeat offenders.

The other offence you bring up was how long ago now?

Five years. You can find it online if you use google search. Hartley Eye gouged a player and was banned for 26 weeks.

Exactly. Five years ago.

Yes five years ago makes no difference to it being a repeat offence does it...!

maestegmafia wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Best & Hartley are nailed on tourists.

According to the polls far from it.

Dylan Hartley 18% [ 21 ]
Rory Best 37% [ 43 ]
Ross Ford 15% [ 18 ]
Matthew Rees 17% [ 20 ]

Yet, he's ahead of Rees who you put forward as a captain. Along with Gethin Jenkins for some reason who struggles to scrummage and is hardly a seasoned captain for club or country. Weird.

Yes you are correct. Gethin Jenkins, regarded as one of the best looseheads in the world by most rug y pundits and fans a like, skippered Wales to two wins in this years six nations. Matthew Rees returning from injury but a Lions test starter last tour and experienced, respected club and national Captain.

Nothing "Wierd" about that at all.

Do you have a point? Is it about rugby?

Don't bring that out just because we don't agree. Anyway, apology accepted. Thanks! We'll agree to disagree (and that you're wrong )

Definitely not Ford under any circumstances - apart from anything else his playing form is also abysmal!

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Definitely not Ford under any circumstances - apart from anything else his playing form is also abysmal!

He was in good form for Club and Country pre Six Nations...!

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Best & Hartley are nailed on tourists.

According to the polls far from it.

Dylan Hartley 18% [ 21 ]
Rory Best 37% [ 43 ]
Ross Ford 15% [ 18 ]
Matthew Rees 17% [ 20 ]

So who came first and second? They are the 2 best hookers & I would be very surprised if they arent 1 & 2 for The Lions with Ford as back up.
Rees has gone backwards this season IMO.

Ryan jones - deputy cap when POC and warbs injured

You read it here first.

slartibartfast wrote:Ryan jones - deputy cap when POC and warbs injured

You read it here first.

Good Call...! He has been in fine form all year.

Actually if he is still in current form, that is a good call

The best thing about warbs is that his form doesn't seem to be effected by the captaincy. Bod is the same.

The only problem with POC is that I dOnt think he'll be first choice lock.

Knowsit17 wrote:Never looked great as int'l captain might I add. Hasn't won any meaningful games when leading Ireland. Looked out of sorts when leading the Lions in 09. It takes more than talking straight in the changing rooms to be a good skipper, it takes leadership on the field also.

I have my reservations about OConnell I must say too. Some people like to blame ROG for the second test loss to SA. I reckon OConnell should shoulder more blame. Lions were in control in that game, in the lead and motoring. I feel that a good captain would have steadied the ship and ground it out. POC looked flustered every time the camera was on him. A bit like Ireland v Wales this year.

Having said that POC is still a good captain and will have benefitted from captaining the lions before. I think Warburton has the right attitude and temperament to be captain as does BOD. I reckon that Warburton knows Gatland well and he is a forward will swing it in his favour.

I actually think Gatland might throw curveball and pick BOD, if he's fit and playing well.

Agree a bit on O'Connell. I think he's a fantastic pack leader and talisman but he lacks the tactical astuteness to be a great captain at the highest level.

BOD is massively respected in Australia and has beaten them on several occaisions and although Warburton is the obvious favourite I wouldn't be surprised to see BOD lead the Lions again.

O'Connell

Knowsit17 wrote:Never looked great as int'l captain might I add. Hasn't won any meaningful games when leading Ireland. Looked out of sorts when leading the Lions in 09. It takes more than talking straight in the changing rooms to be a good skipper, it takes leadership on the field also.

He does that too.

Leadership is more than about 'winning', sometimes you just don't have the team to do it with. Ask Robshaw, Wood, O'Driscoll, Gray, Ford, Warburton, Rees and Jenkins.

leinsterbaby wrote: I reckon that Warburton knows Gatland well and he is a forward will swing it in his favour.

I reckon Gatland gave O'Driscoll his first international game and is a might proud of what O'Driscoll has become (publically stated). Warburton might be the fresh potent weapon but if O'Driscoll makes another Lions (and nobody can safely say he even will) but if he does make it, he's the Icon.

Don't forget too that all players will be under Gatland's fitness regime by the time the Lions comes around. It's often crassly overlooked that the fitness program the Welsh players endure is also a substantial part of their efforts, their skill levels, their stamina and their success rate.

The fitness programme is overhyped. Ireland have been doing similar conditioning for years. They went to Poland before the France 07 WC just as Wales did in '11 and you can see what good that did them. The welsh fitness has more to do with their age than their methods.

If Drico is fit he will be picked. He has shone in every lions test he has played in. He will tour, I'm certain of it.

Warburton would be my choice. Has shown good leadership of the Welsh squad at the last world cup and I think he's one of the very few players to be a certain starter.

POC will do well to maintain form, and could be an excellent mid-week captain for the Lions, but personally I think he struggles to make the test side even now, with Charteris and Gray in contention.

Of the three people seem to mention, BOD probably has the most to do. Not just in terms of getting fit, but in terms of showing form to make the cut. There mustn't be any sentimental selections, and by then it may well be that players such as Tuilagi, Davies, Williams, Joseph et al are just that bit sharper off the mark come selection time. He's been the best NH back in the last decade, and if fully fit and on form come selection time it'll be impossible to leave him out, but I just have a feeling that this is one step too far for the great man. I hope I'm wrong.

The fitness program is not overhyped - the fitness program is ignored, sidetracked, smothered, evaded etc, etc, etc.

The fitness program allows the Welsh players to play the game they always want to play but didn't have the endurance levels to sustain. I've been watching rugby a long time and I know when fitness levels are having an impact in helping the body to do what the mind always wanted to do but didn't have the puff to support it.

Methods AND fitness. Ireland is so-so fitness and no method.

" Has shown good leadership of the Welsh squad at the last world cup ..."

Apart from his red card during one of Wales' most important games.

Hartley anyone?

O'Connell for me.

How anyone can go for Warburton after that RWC semi final is beyond me, maybe the next tour Warburton should get the honour if his still at the top of his game, but I want someone with a cool head both on and off the pitch.

The pressure on the Lions in Aus will be huge.

Understand your sentiments re Bod FES but Bod just keeps proving his critics wrong. He has played one match v Munster since coming back from injury and he looked very sharp hitting tackles hard and running his trademark arcs with a real spring in his step. Of all the players you mentioned despite their age advantage I honestly don't think any of them have as many strings to their bow as Drico.

funnyExiledScot wrote:
POC will do well to maintain form, and could be an excellent mid-week captain for the Lions, but personally I think he struggles to make the test side even now, with Charteris and Gray in contention.

Couldn't disagree with this more. O'Connell for me is the best lock in world rugby, by a distance and was the standout lock at the last RWC.

In my opinion he will be one of the first names on the test team and the question will be who his partner will be.

I don't think he should be captain though if Warburton or BOD are fit.

roddersm wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:
POC will do well to maintain form, and could be an excellent mid-week captain for the Lions, but personally I think he struggles to make the test side even now, with Charteris and Gray in contention.

Couldn't disagree with this more. O'Connell for me is the best lock in world rugby, by a distance and was the standout lock at the last RWC.

In my opinion he will be one of the first names on the test team and the question will be who his partner will be.

I don't think he should be captain though if Warburton or BOD are fit.

I agree he was great but certainly didn't seem to have his RWC form since. Neither for Munster or Ireland.

An outside bet for me would be Rory Best. I think he is nailed on for the 2 shirt, and he leads by example on the pitch.

Not sure about that. He was like a man posessed for Munster in the group stages of the HEC and was having a very good 6N up until his injury.

Had a good game against Ulster too.

I think he reads the lineout better than anyone in the game right now and his workrate is phenomenal.

His only downside is he sometimes carries too much, hence I prefer him not to be captain, as you need someone else to tell him to get out of the way at times.

Sorry, BOD and POC are legends and should be automatic choices.

Warbs is a bottler and should be removed from the equation. His completely lethal spear/dump/drill neck into the ground tackle was totally outrageous, everyone thought so at the time, and just goes to show he's mentally not in the right place to captain the Lions.

Certainly not as superbly as POC on the last tour. Wasn't he just awesome. Wyn Jones and Shaw were not in the same league. POC is by far the best lock in the world of course. Charteris wasn't even close to him in the World Cup, and the less said about Richie Gray's form the better I guess. If only they were close to POC.

How could I have forgotten Rory Best?? Apologies, I forgot there was another Irish candidate.

Complete class. Why bother taking three hookers?? Rees and Ford (or Hartley) should just sit on Bondi Beach in case he gets injured.

Any others?

Maybe just make POC, BOD and Best joint captains?

Didn't say any of that FES.

I voted for Warburton because I think he and O'Connell are the only automatic picks.

I think if BOD is fit then he may sneak it.

Gray is a different type of lock than O'Connell and they will not be going head to head. I'm not sure why you think they would be.

It will be O'Connell v Charteris.

Was there really a need for any of that FES?

Have you a problem with Irish players FES? Your posts are borderline racist.

Come on FES: you should be used to Scottish players being ignored by the Lions by now. Best just accept the fact already that Gray, Hogg, Denton et al aren´t going. They´re just too Scottish.

Maesteg can you please remove the Irish players off the list. Clearly we are not welcome and their presence causes some offence.

Thanks .

Well personally I think Denton, Rennie, Gray and Hogg should and will be definite tourists for the Lions..

I really doubt that BOD or POC will be captains event if they do tour. I woul argue that both of them are automatic picks as well, certainly not BOD anymore anyways.

Warburton is an excellent player and leader. Far and away my choice for captian.

Come on guys, I was merely making fun of the fact that amongst a group of Irish fans the leading contenders appear to be BOD, POC and Best. Clearly they are all reasonable candidates, I was only poking fun.

As for the "borderline rascist" comment, give it a rest. Nothing of the sort.

For the record, there are no sensible Scottish candidates for the Lions captaincy. I doubt you'd find a Scot or here saying that there are.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Well personally I think Denton, Rennie, Gray and Hogg should and will be definite tourists for the Lions..

No doubt but thats not what this thread is about. This is about who should captain.

FES. I do believe that Gray is a very good player and i have said it on many occasions that i believe that he will be leading Scotland within a year and will captain the Lions at some stage in hus career.

Not yet though. Best just let him get on with playing. Although he leads by example on the field he is no orator.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Come on guys, I was merely making fun of the fact that amongst a group of Irish fans the leading contenders appear to be BOD, POC and Best.

Considering Ireland have by far the most experienced side currently, it's not surprising that there are a number of Irish candidates.

Only one person has mentioned Best and most Irish posters have picked Warburton as the outstanding candidate.

I think the Irish mafia comment was completely uncalled for.

Ah Rory, your innocence is touching. I think though there will be one token Scottish player that ends up going and he will get injured in the midweek game with his first touch of the ball. There are some things in life that are certainties: death, taxes and feeble Scottish Lions representation.

Sorry Rodders. Back on track. You need a forward as Lions captain in my opinion and that name should be first on the team sheet. Who will also make up the most of the forwards and who commands respect and has a lot of experience need to also be taken into account.

What about Warburton as captain and POC as Motivator

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:
Sorry Rodders. Back on track. You need a forward as Lions captain in my opinion and that name should be first on the team sheet. Who will also make up the most of the forwards and who commands respect and has a lot of experience need to also be taken into account.

Well that still leaves Warburton and O'Connell imo.

I'm not sure if I agree with that though. Against SA or NZ maybe but not so important against Australia, who are the least physical of the Tri Nations.

roddersm wrote:I think the Irish mafia comment was completely uncalled for.

I have edited my post. It was not intended to offend.