The Most overrated driver's in Formula one!

This isn't bear baiting but i'm genuinely interested to know who everyone think's is overrated and doesn't deserve the hype they get.

Guy's such as Kubica and Raikkonen in recent years, although top driver's (two of my favorites) are often portrayed in this mystic light, is it because of they're laid back attitudes? up and down performances? where as you have someone like Vettel who wins and wins and wins but doesn't do it with great style or with the same excitement as others do (although again if your winning from behind you've probably messed up somewhere before) .

So how do you portray someone who is overrated? a driver who lives off a past reputation (Schumacher, Massa and to an extent Raikkonen and Hamilton) or someone who "lucks" in to a top car and isn't really challenged aka Vettel ( though i suppose 22 wins 4 years is pretty tasty no matter what the car). Or alternatively young driver's such as Perez and Kobayashi who have some brilliant performances but have a whole load of mediocrity in between.

Notice the ham haters are out immediately judging by the votes.

Good old Seb. So overrated it's painful. Does jack all when he qualifies down the order yet stick him on poll and he wins. Almost as if he can't overtake(!)

I'll bet €100 that John votes for Jenson Button MBE!

Maybe...

But then i bet you voted for Lewis :-p

Was maybe a bit daft of me for expecting some backup for answers..

Lewis for me

Vettel

Does the OP want reasons why I feel my chosen driver is overrated? It maybe inflammatory towards supporters of the driver and I don't want to upset people.

I believe Vettel is overrated, he has talent no doubt but he is not the all conquering superstar we are currently being forced to believe.

Let's take your list one by one:

Vettel - Repeat WDC. Best driver in quali, and very fast in clear air. Has done a good job this season of maximising his points with what is not clearly the best car and has answered some of the criticisms of his racecraft (e.g. getting 2nd in Aus when he certainly shouldn't have beaten either McLaren on pure pace). For me, rightly considered one of the elite drivers of the moment.

Webber - Most think he's a little lucky to still be driving for one of the best teams, so can't be over-rated since no-one rates him.

Button - Smooth and consistent, should be well suited to the current regulations. Can get racy when needed. I think most people rate him about right, as being very good but a bit behind the best drivers for outright speed. A good foil for Hamilton's more impulsive style at McLaren.

Hamilton - Probably the fastest and 'raciest' race driver in F1, but does make a few mistakes. I think rightly rated in the top 3 or 4 drivers.

Alonso - Showed he still has the class by winning in Malaysia where conditions allowed him to out-perform the currently below-par Ferrari. I think his reputation as being the best 'all rounder' is probably justified - not quite as racy as Hamilton or as good in quali or clean air as Vettel but not far off either and extremely good at maximising the performance of his car.

Massa - Before his injury I'd have put him as the most over-rated, but since coming back his reputation has faded and he's now even more than Webber lucky to still be in a race seat for a big team.

Rosberg - Seems to have spent most of his career in 'leading midfield' cars and has had some very good performances and some slightly disappointing ones. His reputation seems to be based more on the good performances though, so maybe for me is rated a bit too highly even after his dominant win the other week (I reckon he's probably not as good as Button, never mind the 'big 3').

Schumi - barely a pale shadow of the driver he once was. Not over-rated since no-one really rates him very highly now.

Raikkonen - Fast, erratic, surly. Doesn't look like 2 years away have done much to change Kimi. On his day the equal of anyone. Off it, may as well pull in for an ice cream. Not sure how he's rated at the moment, so soon into his comeback, so can't describe him as over-rated at the moment.

Di Resta - Again, I think his reputation is pretty much right, in that he shows a lot of promise for a young driver in a midfield car. Seems to be pretty consistent in maximising the car performance. One who I guess the bigger teams will be looking at if a seat becomes available.

Hulkenberg - A reputation based on putting a Williams on pole in changeable conditions and then hanging on well in the race. Hasn't shone otherwise, but also has run close to Di Resta a couple of times this year so isn't a muppet either.

Kobayashi - It might be controversial, but I think he's one of the most over-rated overall. His reputation is based on being a very good overtaker (mostly at the Suzuka hairpin) but sometimes not so good on the defensive side, and I'm not convinced his outright pace is that great.

Perez - A less consistent Di Resta. Great race in Malaysia and has shown good pace in the dry in many of his other races, although he struggled for a few races after his big crash in Monaco last year.

The others you list (Ricciardo, Vergne, Maldonado and Senna) haven't been around long enough in half-way competetive cars to know where they fit into the hierarchy

vettel - not sure i agree with him being the best qualifier on the grid - generally the jury is still out for me.

Webber - unratable because people dont rate him - hmmm not sure about that one.

button - people rate him becuase he's doing well BECAUSE as you say the regs favour him. Doesnt necessarily make him a great driver, just as an advantage over the rest. CHange the reg will change who does/doesnt do well

Lewis - I notice the mistakes are mentioned. I hope this is looking at the winder pic and not just 2011. He's young hasnt been in F1 as long as some like BUtton, webber. So has plenty more years left.

Alonso - i cant disagree with what youve said.

Massa - not worth mentioning for me. He was good, but now....


Rosberg - He's showed form recently but again i agree, prob the best of the rest kind of driver. We'll see.

Schumacher - cant say he's overrated as he's 7 x WDC. But then he had the best car with a "willing to play the game" team mate. I can see him getting a win or podium at least before long. If Merc continue as they are.

kimi - again cant disagree. Spot on what youve put for me.

Di Resta - For me showed promise but has just tailed off. Not sure if its the car or the driver - hulkenberg isnt doing too well either, so potentially more the car than driver. He did well in Bahrain. Maybe result of others demise.

Kobayashi - again agree with what youve said, showed good form. But his rating was based more on the Suzuka race. He's had the odd spell recently but not much.

Perez - a bit inconsistant, has potential. WOuld like to see him in the Ferrari to see how well he does. Cant comment any further.

For the rest - dont think its fair to have them on the list as theyre either not being in F1 very long or just a poor car. maybe with the exception of the Williams

i will add, i personally feel Lewis is a victim of the reg changes. Go back to 2007 and 2008 with button as his team mate, Lewis would wipe the floor with him. But now the regs of changed, they've taken the edge of Lewis' driving ability and played right into Button.

for me Button is the over rated driver as it all appears to be an illusion, that the regs are helping him as he has the driving style the suit the regs as they are right now, the most. He's not beating those around him by racing (or rarely by racing), but by strategy with tyre managment.

My 2ps

Feel free to comment/disagree etc. but lets not turn this into a slagging off match please by getting personal (like last time AC )

Right then...

So, your saying Jenson Button MBE was not very good in the old regs and in the new regs he is amazing? That's fair enough. But, during his time in the old regs he never had the machinery. Then when the regs change he finally gets a break in some good cars and he has never wasted his opportunity.

I disagree with you as I believe Jenson Button MBE is probably the most underrated driver of his generation. He has proved to be the master of the overtake, the tyre manager extraordinare and a worthy Team Leader at Mclaren. Nobody thought he could do it. And he keeps suprising people. He is now Mclarens #1 driver. Who would of thought that in 2008!?

Alessandro Ciambella wrote:Right then...

So, your saying Jenson Button MBE was not very good in the old regs and in the new regs he is amazing? That's fair enough. But, during his time in the old regs he never had the machinery. Then when the regs change he finally gets a break in some good cars and he has never wasted his opportunity.

I disagree with you as I believe Jenson Button MBE is probably the most underrated driver of his generation. He has proved to be the master of the overtake, the tyre manager extraordinare and a worthy Team Leader at Mclaren. Nobody thought he could do it. And he keeps suprising people. He is now Mclarens #1 driver. Who would of thought that in 2008!?

+1

nope i wasnt saying he wasnt very good in the old reg, as you say he didnt really have the machinary. As, i hope you'll have the deceny to admit, 2007, 2008 and prior, tyre management was no where near important so drivers could get the most out of them. WHere as now its rather important. Button is known for a) finds it harder to get tyres up to temp and b) looking after them better. The prior being a consequence of the latter.

Are you saying Jenson, given equal machinary to the front runners at the time, he wouldnt have struggled compared to now?

He hasnt proved to be "master " of overtaking. Im by no means saying he cannot over take. But goign as far as calling him master, is obsurb.

My point is, the change in regs means tyre manangement is more important, (too important to some of us, including the mighty Schumacher), which has played nicely into Button's hands. If the tyres were more as they were, Button would stuggle, imo.

Tyre and fuel management came in 2010. Jenson won the title in 2009. I think you'll find he has proven himself in both eras if F1.

fuel managment and tyre management have always been part of the game, way before 2010, since they got rid of refuelling. Its only been since 2010 that its come to the foreground and being the be all and end all of f1 - particularly the tyre management.

Also, he had the best car in the field for the majority of the season. Note that he stopped winning races once the other teams had caught up development wise. By that point he'd done enough anyway. So no, he hadnt quite proven himself.

And since when did he do well in the previous era, you said that yourself above "he didnt have the machine to do anything in", so how can you now say he's proven himself in both eras? Its a contradiction.

Admittingly Jenson has done well since joining Mclaren, certainly better than i thought he'd do. But, again tyres seem to be a big part of that success.

The crazy degrading Tyres did not come in until 2010. Jenson proved that in a time when racers were racers and not preserving Tyres made of cheese that given the equipment he could genuinely fight with big boys at the front.

Mclaren picked up on this and seen there was a place in their team for such a different driver to Hamilton.

He was a proven success in the previous era by winning a WDC when finally given the equipment. He has driven some of the worst cars I have ever seen such as the infamous Earth Car.

I am glad that Jenson Button MBE was given the chance at Mclaren. Has he ever let them down? I can't think of many times where he has let any teams down. Even at Brawn the man took a pay cut before even driving the new Brawn car of 2009.

How many drivers running in the top teams would do that?

This guy deserves all the plaudits. He obviously suprises lots of people here because of the negative reaction to anything positive he does on the track. An Overated driver would surprise nobody.

He has served his time with the rat race teams and proved himself worthy of a place at a top team. He has evolved into a better driver.

Thats what i was saying the daft plastersine tyres didnt come in until 2010, before then the tyres were durable enough to allow some racing to happen. Where as now, if you even think about racing the guy ahead, you'll suffer from delapadated tyres and the need to pit.

But in 2009 as you pointed out was when JB won the WDC and WCC, Brawn had half a years worth of developement ahead of the other teams. THe likes of Mclaren and Ferrari were fighting for the 2008 championship so concentrated on their current car. Brawn was way ahead and like RB, brawn came up with a good solution - the double diffuser. JB was not in a equal car to the rest of the field, certainly not the first half.

The Brawn car was way ahead of the others and allowed him to get win after win. But i'll reiterate, once the rest of the field caught up, well certainly the big teams, Jenson didnt win another race.

It makes me laugh when people say Lewis was lucky win the 2008 WDC. I can see why people think maybe he was lucky to finish where he needed to be in Brazil. But it was more than luck that kept him in the fight, all season, against a very fast ferrari. Yet jenson had a better car for a good half the season, so thats not just luck its an advantage.

jenson may have took a pay cut at brawn, but wouldnt you knowning you'll have an advantage over the rest of the field, besides what team were head hunting him at that point. not Mclaren, not ferrari or RB. Also when he was at honda he was staying because he got paid well by Honda.

Vettel appears to only be half decent when he starts from the front. He is excellent at this, but put him in a racing situation where he needs to win from the back and he is not as great as the commentary teams make out.

He is exceptional in qualifying, true, but when things don't go right for him toys start flying out of his Red Bull pram.

Critical_mass wrote:vettel - not sure i agree with him being the best qualifier on the grid - generally the jury is still out for me.

Webber - unratable because people dont rate him - hmmm not sure about that one.

button - people rate him becuase he's doing well BECAUSE as you say the regs favour him. Doesnt necessarily make him a great driver, just as an advantage over the rest. CHange the reg will change who does/doesnt do well

Lewis - I notice the mistakes are mentioned. I hope this is looking at the winder pic and not just 2011. He's young hasnt been in F1 as long as some like BUtton, webber. So has plenty more years left.

Alonso - i cant disagree with what youve said.

Massa - not worth mentioning for me. He was good, but now....


Rosberg - He's showed form recently but again i agree, prob the best of the rest kind of driver. We'll see.

Schumacher - cant say he's overrated as he's 7 x WDC. But then he had the best car with a "willing to play the game" team mate. I can see him getting a win or podium at least before long. If Merc continue as they are.

kimi - again cant disagree. Spot on what youve put for me.

Di Resta - For me showed promise but has just tailed off. Not sure if its the car or the driver - hulkenberg isnt doing too well either, so potentially more the car than driver. He did well in Bahrain. Maybe result of others demise.

Kobayashi - again agree with what youve said, showed good form. But his rating was based more on the Suzuka race. He's had the odd spell recently but not much.

Perez - a bit inconsistant, has potential. WOuld like to see him in the Ferrari to see how well he does. Cant comment any further.

For the rest - dont think its fair to have them on the list as theyre either not being in F1 very long or just a poor car. maybe with the exception of the Williams

Can't agree with what you've said about Di Resta CM, he still shows a lot of promise imo. Sixth in a car that at best is the 7th fastest on the grid and that's now his third points finish in four races.

Can't agree on the Button point either, he always was a good driver but if you never have good car's you don't win, simple as that. As soon as he's been in that Mclaren he's matched Lewis, who i feel is the most overrated based on the fact he crashes a lot for a top driver, hasn't delivered in a race for some time and still hasn't adapted to conserving his tyres.

This is a pointless debate. It's funny how the fast, naturally gifted racing drivers (Hamilton/Vettel) are the ones being labelled 'over-rated' compared to the tyre managing, less able and naturally slower drivers such as Button & Di Resta who's styles suit the current regulations. What does that say about the direction in which F1 has gone? The racers are being handcuffed, forced to race out of their comfort zone and therefore this allowed slower drivers to bridge the gap to them and compete consistantly.

If you cant see that then there is no hope for anyone.

Again focusing on one year though - 2011. which yes he had an absolute shocker of a year.

Again lets look at the wider picture, not jsut one race. Di Resta did fantastic in Bahrain, in a car that isnt up to scratch - no doubt. But take a look at the start of last season he was doing very well. But this year as i said its tailed off. But in my defense i did say it was probably more the car than him

When you say delivered in a race, are you meaning winning? He won the last race of the season last year, which was only 5 races ago AND this season he's had 3 podiums and should have got another if it wasnt for the bundled pit stops. Id say that was pretty good going.

He may not have learnt to converse tyres to the extent of say Button, but he has improved this year so far. This falls down to the argument that the racing is more about tyre conservation and not actual racing - which for me isnt racing at all, its a procession.

As John has just pointed out, two different types of drivers are being compared. Fast natural races are being compared to those easy on tyres.

Isn't it funny how the 2 most Overated drivers according to this poll are also labelled 'Crash Kids'...

Again looking at one year on each of those drivers.

Aww come on CM. Hamilton has been crashing AND spinning out in pitlanes long before last year.

Suprised at the amount of votes for Hamilton. This 'tyre era' of F1 seems to have turned memories into mush and some have forgotten just how good this kid is and what F1 used to be about. I suspect he is being judged on his 2011 annus horibilis. Well I would suggest a night in with a dvd of the 2007/2008 seasons and just look at the way he raced a car. Yes there were mistakes but he was still learning. For me 2011 was a turning point and so far this season it looks like Hamilton the man has emerged. However just when he is probably entering his prime this new 'tyre era' is going to prevent arguably the most talented racer of a generation from leaving his mark on the sport in a similar way that his hero did before him. And that's a damn shame.

I admit he has had mishaps. But what driver hasnt.

SteveG wrote:Suprised at the amount of votes for Hamilton. This 'tyre era' of F1 seems to have turned memories into mush and some have forgotten just how good this kid is and what F1 used to be about. I suspect he is being judged on his 2011 annus horibilis. Well I would suggest a night in with a dvd of the 2007/2008 seasons and just look at the way he raced a car. Yes there were mistakes but he was still learning. For me 2011 was a turning point and so far this season it looks like Hamilton the man has emerged. However just when he is probably entering his prime this new 'tyre era' is going to prevent arguably the most talented racer of a generation from leaving his mark on the sport in a similar way that his hero did before him. And that's a damn shame.

+1 for that.

Yes it will be a shame.

SteveG - Couldn't agree more. This new era or 'show era' of F1 has killed the pure racers.

This begs the question surely....

What ifHamilton didn't pass Glock?

Then he wouldnt have been world champion. Which could have been seen as luck to some, which i can understand. But he was there all season to put himself in that position.

Luck has always played a part in F1, it plays its part regardless of who the driver is, but he was and still is a good enough RACER to keep himself in the chase to the very last race.

Though im not sure what your point was on asking the question DD? (im not being condesending when i ask that. Im genuinely unsure on what you were getting at )

I wouldn't worry CM dave likes to wum Lewis Hamilton every now and again not sure why but ah well lol.

I do believe Hamilton fans need to stop hiding him behind the tyre excuse though top class drivers adapt to situations around them if he can't do that then he's needs to learn quickly cos i don't see pirelli going anywhere soon

This isn't a WUM Odnan.

But if he hadnt passed Glock, what you are looking at is a guy who lost 2 close world champs and still hasnt a world title. Now, he does have the talents to win multi world champs. Surely then people would say "he can't close the deal".

I just wonder, how would he have been rated then? Surely the pressure on him would have been unbelievable!!!!

Dodger Dave wrote:This isn't a WUM Odnan.

But if he hadnt passed Glock, what you are looking at is a guy who lost 2 close world champs and still hasnt a world title. Now, he does have the talents to win multi world champs. Surely then people would say "he can't close the deal".

I just wonder, how would he have been rated then? Surely the pressure on him would have been unbelievable!!!!

It's nice of you not to try and wum dave and id expect he'd still be hyped as much as was but being known as a bottler id expect

Hamilton and Alonso are the best two on the grid, IMO.

I don't think anyone is overrated.

Regardless if he'd have won the wdc or not. Looking how he's performed bar 2011. He's only been in the sport for 4 full season. he's accomplished more than some who have been in the sport for many years.

It was 09 when he had that awful car, yes?

He really outdrove the car that year.

Now JV - thought he was overrated.

Yes it was 2009 when he had the awful car.

JV?

Jacques Villeneuve.

ah yes, but what about out of the current drivers?

Don't think this a great article but wanted to have my tuppence worth anyway.

Reason being the current grid has 6 former (and current) world champions, a bunch of perennial mid-grid runners and the usual suspects at the tail end.

I think very few drivers are over-rated. While everyone has their opinions, I think most knowledgable F1 fans would acknowledge each driver's strengths and weaknesses. To pick a few common ones:

Vettel
In a different league when in a fast car and starting on pole. Distinctly ordinary if starting down the grid. Although capable of pulling off good passing moves he seems to lack the dogfighters' instinct.

Button
Capable of beating anyone on the grid but VERY finicky about his car set-up. If not perfect then he often struggles.

Hamilton
Hugely talented and aggressive racer but is hard on his machinery and finds it hard to race to a strategy (although he seems to be addressing that this season). Can also get petulant and lose focus when things don't go his way.

Alonso
Also hugely talented and gets the most out of his car. Also a thinking driver who can race to a plan. Prone to tantrums and losing focus if things don't go his way.


So really, no driver is perfect. They all have good and bad points and I don't think any of them are particularly over rated by pundits or fans.

I think most are rated about right.

Dodger Dave wrote:This begs the question surely....

What ifHamilton didn't pass Glock?

What if Cooper caught Clay earlier in the round ?
What if the ref saw the hand of God ?
What if Johnny Wilkinson had missed that drop goal ?
we can what ifs in any sport till the cows come home.

dyrewolfe wrote:Don't think this a great article but wanted to have my tuppence worth anyway.

Reason being the current grid has 6 former (and current) world champions, a bunch of perennial mid-grid runners and the usual suspects at the tail end.

I think very few drivers are over-rated. While everyone has their opinions, I think most knowledgable F1 fans would acknowledge each driver's strengths and weaknesses. To pick a few common ones:

Vettel
In a different league when in a fast car and starting on pole. Distinctly ordinary if starting down the grid. Although capable of pulling off good passing moves he seems to lack the dogfighters' instinct.

Button
Capable of beating anyone on the grid but VERY finicky about his car set-up. If not perfect then he often struggles.

Hamilton
Hugely talented and aggressive racer but is hard on his machinery and finds it hard to race to a strategy (although he seems to be addressing that this season). Can also get petulant and lose focus when things don't go his way.

Alonso
Also hugely talented and gets the most out of his car. Also a thinking driver who can race to a plan. Prone to tantrums and losing focus if things don't go his way.


So really, no driver is perfect. They all have good and bad points and I don't think any of them are particularly over rated by pundits or fans.

A good assessment. I'd go along with that.

Surely Button struggling unless the car is perfect, is HIS inablity to adapt.

Critical_mass wrote:Surely Button struggling unless the car is perfect, is HIS inablity to adapt.

True but you can get away with setup more then you can with tyre wear.

True.

@Critical_mass: I'm pretty sure I indicated it was one of his flaws.


Just another thought to throw into the debate: its pretty difficult to rate drivers in the middle of the grid, or at the back, since success in F1 is largely determined by the car and drivers with poor equipment are unlikely to shine. One example is Kovaleinen, who regularly scored points for McLaren, but is currently struggling at Caterham.

There are a few exceptions, such as Kobayashi, Perez and Di Resta, who have shown they can get decent results with "second tier" cars, but who knows what they could achieve in better equipment?