Corbisiero or Marler for the loosehead shirt

Thought i would see what common consensus is on a position of strength for England, with two young and highly promising props in Corbs and Marler could be set for a battle which could continue for a very long time.

I was impressed with Corbs in the Six Nations and I rate him as a good international player with the potential to improve into one of the world's best in a few years. His scrummaging was good, so thats the bread and butter covered, but he also showed up well around the park with a number of good carries and a high tackle count. I have'nt seen him for LI in a while so can anyone give me anything on how he's done since the 6N?

Despite Corbs' good show, Marler is really making a case for me. His club form has been superb and, vitally, his scrummaging seems to have improved from a bit dodgy into a real weapon. Tonga'uiha and Mujati aren't quite the same force as last year but they are still a formidable unit and Quins really showed up well there for me. PDJ is renowned as a strong scrummager but when he came on Marler gave him a real pasting. I have always thought that Marler's work around the park, inparticular his carrying, was not far off world class already and that if his scrums improved he could be the best loosehead in the world. For me he also has a better mentality than Corbs. Although he has gone over the top and been sent off etc I like my front row to intimidate the opposition. As a TH i would rather go to war against Corbs than Marler. Not saying Corbs is soft, but he doesnt seem as in your face as the Quins lad.

IMO Marler's case is helped by Jannie Du Plessis not being the best TH around. I would hesitate to throw Marler into a test against Adam Jones or Castro but despite its sll-round superb quality TH is one position where the Bok pack is lacking.

Wondered what your thoughts were on the question? has Marler done enough to mount a serious challenge or is he still a work in progress?

I'd say Marler has looked the better player in the premiership, but Corbisero had a very good 6N and deserves to be continued with. If he doesn't maintain those performances I'd very happily bring Marler in though. If Corbisero is considered capable enough to cover at TH I'd like to see Marler on the bench over Stevens/PDJ.

i remember a rugby world article a year or two back saying that Corbisiero can play both sides, but i have never seen him do that, although I admit to barely having seen him play for LI.

Can any LI fans out there confirm if he can cover TH as well?

if he can either him or Marler on the bench makes sense because Cole, Marler and Corbisiero are the best 3 english props by a distance for me, although i rate PDJ as well

I think Corbisiero played at TH for England under 20s didn't he?

On Marler, I don't think he has quite surpassed Corbisiero at LH at the moment but in the future, most likely. I think that Marler has a greater potential than Corbisiero and hopefully he will reach that potential with his ball carrying as well as working on his scrummaging.

I appreciate the threads about Crobs v Marler....Where does Matt Mullan come into it? I rate him very highly aswell..

GeordieFalcon wrote:I appreciate the threads about Crobs v Marler....Where does Matt Mullan come into it? I rate him very highly aswell..

Completely agree about Mullan however, I think that both Corbisiero and Marler offer more in open play than Mullan. Not that Mullan's bad in open play!

Matt Mullan is rapid....

Look at 0.41

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbQcRq5x9Dc&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL9D338F749921C22D

"Who tackled him there...thats a loosehead prop!!!????"

Unbelievable, I thought he was quick but not that quick

great footage of mullan, enjoy the commentary as well.

corbs is the man in possession of the shirt but that shouldnt mean he is nailed on. compeptition for places should mean marler can play his way in.

We have good depth at LH but now to find good competition for Cole at TH, Doran-Jones still needs to nail down a starting position at Saints and Thomas needs to work on his scrummaging.

Who else is there?

Corbs to start with, see how Marler fares in the midweekers

yeah as a worcester fan i must say i rate mullan very highly. he is consistant and shows up fairly well around the park. i dont think he is quite in the same league as the other two though if i was forced to forget all bias. a more than worthy backup though

agree we need to find a decent backup for TH. chances are the excellent cole will be injured one day and i wouldlike doran jones to get game time, and henry thomas is someone that should be introduced into the squad before long

Corbs has played tighthesd but not for at least a season. He is not a realistic option as the tighthead backup for england unless they want a court like disaster.

Corbs form has been solid but unspectacular since the 6 nations but this is not helped the lack of a decent tighthead at irish. For me he should start as he is a lot better with an attacking tighthead like Cole than he is with the irish tightheads who are not even slightly destructive.

Corbs for me, he's done nothing to lose the shirt and that game against Ireland he was incredible. I'd take him off around the 50 minute mark and throw on Marler. It's great that England has two potentially world class looseheads. It was only a few years ago we had Tim Payne at LH,

I agree with Flankertye in that for the mean time, I think that Corbs should keep the shirt and Marler come on at about the 50-60 minute mark. his physicality and work in the loose will be a serious problem for a lot of teams. Corbs has slimmed down a lot since his early LI days, and I think this has really helped his overall game. He seems to be at every ruck and maul, and gets over the ball really well- some of his turnovers in the 6N were simply brilliant.

On a side note, I think Rowntree is a bit of a magician. Not that either Corbs or Marler's scrummaging were weak when they first trained with England, but he's done something to elevate their games...

Corbisiero can play tight-head, but he's never looked comfortable the few times I've seen him play there at club level.

Yup, good competition between the 2 can only be beneficial to the team.

I wonder if Corbis is versatile enough to have a crack at hooker! Problem solved.
Smit moved from hook to prop - might work.
Marler-Corbis- Cole

Mullan can reputedly play Hooker...

Excellent - 3 props in the front row - love it. They would eat oposition for breakfast.

Mullan seems to have the frame and all round mobility of a hooker rather than a prop - saw a youtube clip on another post of him gunning down James Hook - fantastic tackle.
That could be a good shout as Mullan is in a very competative position at the moment.

yeah mullan i believe has played there before but i have never seen him play there in a toplevel live match, and to my knowledge, which may be wrong, he hasnt played hooker for the warriors for a few years at least.

if mullan was to be converted i could see it taking at least a year. i dont think its feasable to be honest. he doesnt play there at all regularily to my knowledge and he is very much worcester's first choice 1. cant see us giving up one of our biggest strengths in order to trial him at hooker. and just repositioning when he plays for england would be suicidal at scrum and lineout time

i think its far more likely that a specialist hooker will eventually take over the position from hartley. personally I am backing jamie george. i know some people who played with him apparently he was superb, he played age group rugby early, and at sarries he has the perfect players to teach him both the loose and tight aspects of the game in britz and smit

mattravan - Completely agree, it was a wacky left field suggetion.

Long term I would like Jamie George and Tom Youngs to make the big step up.

Immediate future as Hartley backup - I guess that Grey is the only real contender. Excl. Mears (not effective) and Brooker (long term injury).

propdavid

i think hooker is the weakest position in the team. at 12 we dont have any really great options but at least are quite a lot of players around the same level.

the weakness at hooker means tom youngs actually has a really good chance to force his way near a banch spot without having hardly played there in the premiership. this shows the weakness of the position, but hopefully youngs can show his pace carrying ability and start a 3 way battle between hartley george and youngs in a couple of years. hartley is only 26, while youngs is 25 and george only 21 so we could have real competition before long. i can see hartley hanging on for the 2015 tournament, with george taking over after that

Corbs is still a pretty heavy guy though isn't he, topped the heaviest forward on the pitch for a few england games.
Brits at Saracens has a bet with someone that George will be involved in 2015.

Oh yeh, Corbs is still a very big guy, but if you look at him when he first came on the scene at Irish, he was a heck of a lot bigger. Looked like he spent a lot of time pushing weights around, but not really rugby specific weight training. He's slimmed down now and gets through a lot more work.

I don't think it's a matter of IF Marler will get the loosehead jersey it's a matter of WHEN.

The only part of Corbs game that has recently been stronger than Marlers is his scrummaging but Marler looks to have addressed this and I can see him replacing Corbs pretty soon.

I personally think Corbisiero is a pretty average LH he just looks solid alongside Hartley/Cole who are a extremely potent scrummaging unit.

Corbs has shown up well in all his internationals. The england scrum has been strong in part due to him, not despite him.

Well, Corbisero is meant to remain injured for the Barbarians game, so looks like Mullan is going to get an opportunity before Marler (I certainly hope Stevens isn't started at LH).

flankertye wrote:The england scrum has been strong in part due to him, not despite him.

I agree. For me, although it's close and getting ever closer based on the last few weeks it's kind of like the Foden / Brown battle for the 15 shirt before this years 6N. If selecting on pure AP form then without doubt Brown would have started at 15 against Scotland BUT Foden was the man in possession, hadn't done anything wrong (until that point) in any of his previous internationals and was proven as an international standard quality player. You could easily ague that the same can now be said for Corbisiero.

I'm another big Mullen fan, although like Benjamin I think he may have to move to a team playing near the top of the AP and in Europe before he gets the true recognition he deserves. Not saying that is right but just feel it seems that way.

LH prop is arguably our strongest position now in terms of depth. As others have said, big change from a couple of years ago.

Zander wrote: ... Doran-Jones still needs to nail down a starting position at Saints and Thomas needs to work on his scrummaging.

Who else is there?

Win/Lose or draw after the Jeff semi at the stoop i would pay to see Marler at LH & PDJ at TH ..... i'd give it about a minute before they start knocking bails out of each other as opposed to the other side!

What happened to Mercer at saints?
Came on against Leinster in the H cup final and shoved the scrum backwards. He looked like a big big prospect

flankertye wrote:What happened to Mercer at saints?
Came on against Leinster in the H cup final and shoved the scrum backwards. He looked like a big big prospect

I think he's a bit stuck behind Mujati and Doran-Jones in the pecking order at the moment at Saints.

mattraven wrote:propdavid

i think hooker is the weakest position in the team. at 12 we dont have any really great options but at least are quite a lot of players around the same level.

the weakness at hooker means tom youngs actually has a really good chance to force his way near a banch spot without having hardly played there in the premiership. this shows the weakness of the position, but hopefully youngs can show his pace carrying ability and start a 3 way battle between hartley george and youngs in a couple of years. hartley is only 26, while youngs is 25 and george only 21 so we could have real competition before long. i can see hartley hanging on for the 2015 tournament, with george taking over after that

Whilst Hartley doesnt have many fans...he is a useful and experience player there for the moment. Indeed the front row were very solid in the 6n.

Mullan going to Hooker isnt rerally an option for me.

We have..

Hartley - 26
Youngs - 25 (lacks experience but could naul the 1st team tigers spot next season)
He is aggressive small but very squat and powerful....and quick.
George - Learning off Smit and Brits...but needs to be playing now
Lindsay - Played a full season just about...good for a youngster..and hes big and fast...just needs to sort his lineout out.

Plenty of options to be optimistic about...

Lindsay looks a real talent but his lineout throwing is just not progressing.

He's a beast of a scrummager (Wasps scrum always looks very impressive with him in there compared to Webber) and he is great around the park.

Why can he not throw!?!?!? I'd have him in the England set-up with ease if he could.

I find it odd that the hooker always seems to have to throw anyway. At my school, our TH threw in and at Uni it's either the hooker or a back-rower

Skills focus. Same with kickers. Fly halves tend to practice kicking more and so they do the kicking. Hookers learn the throwing so they throw in. There's not point have loads of guys training at throwing in so they focus on a small group (especially with the complication in professional lineout calls)

yeah its almost as if noone but the hooker is considered for throwing in. isnt going to chance though and i suppose its a prerequisite of the position.

as a worcester fan i would love jamie george to come to sixways! i think he needs to go somewhere to play week in week out. although he could probably do that at a more fasionable club. London Irish maybe or Gloucester. He cant affford to be stuck behind Brits for another 3/4 years and also smit as long as he's there.

sixways it is then

corbs to start for me with Marler on in the last 20 minutes. See how he fares, if he does well, give him a start.

It certainly corb's shirt to lose.

Back in the 'old days' didn't the wingers used to throw in?

They used to do it underarm too!

https://www.606v2.com/t29370-rule-changes

Said it on another thread as well actually, but 8 man benches are being trialled in the Autumn series, which will most probably see Corbisiero and Marler in the matchday 23 going forward (fitness permitting) with Mullan as a back-up option. Questions about "can he cover tighthead sufficiently" won't come into it any more.

But for now I agree with those saying it's Corbisiero's shirt to loose. I rate him really highly, especially in the scrum. Marler coming off the bench in the last 20 is some prospect though!

I'm going to be contraversial and go for Marler.

Don't get me wrong. I rate Corbs very, very highly. However, I just think that we would only pick Corbs because he is the incumbent and not because he is the better player.

Marler would give us an extra ball carrier in a pack which lacks big carriers and his set piece isn't an issue any more.

Joe Marler had a coming of age game against Saints and I'm now convinced that he could be a world class loosehead by 2015. I'm not sure if you can say the same about Corbs.

It's be an ideal time to throw him in against South Africa who don't have a top class tighthead.

I'd actually stick with Corbisiero. I think his 6N was good but unspectacular, with only one stand out game.

However, i actually think he has no less potential than Marler. He fitted into international rugby pretty seamlessly, his scrummaging already looked better than Marler's (which has admittedly clearly improved, and i have seen Corbs' tail off a little) but actually his carrying and work-rate have looked very good to me too, in general.

I know a lot of people have said he's slimmed down a lot. Maybe, but i still think his conditioning is not yet top notch, and it's there that Marler's has him.

If anything, i think Corbs has more in the tank. If he can get his dedication to conditioning spot on, i genuinely think he could be a world class LH. Marler, maybe.

I'm just glad we have both

I suppose the truth of the matter is that Wig will know when it's time to use one, and when it's time to use the other. If the eight man bench becomes official for 2015, I'd be very happy to see Marler trot on for Corbs at 50 minutes.

ChequeredJersey wrote:I'm just glad we have both

I agree, not too long ago we had barely any depth at LH but now we have two top quality options at LH.

Annndddddd we end up with Stevens at LH. Oh Jesus Lancaster, you're wearing this honeymoon period a bit thin...

flankertye wrote:Annndddddd we end up with Stevens at LH. Oh Jesus Lancaster, you're wearing this honeymoon period a bit thin...

Marler's in the Aviva Premiership final and I think Corbisiero has a small injury so is being saved for the tests against South Africa.

Ahh didn't know Corbs had an injury. Would have preferred Mullan to start, with Stevens on the bench to cover both sides if one of the starting props was struggaling.

flankertye wrote:Ahh didn't know Corbs had an injury. Would have preferred Mullan to start, with Stevens on the bench to cover both sides if one of the starting props was struggaling.

I agree, it would have been nice to see what Mullan could have done from a starting spot but we'll never know now ...

Scrummaging against Afoa is a tough ask though.. I hope he gets a decent half hour run out.