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Rabo BaaBaa's Team

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IanBru
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Post by Brendan Fri 25 May 2012 - 9:46

I saw on another thread the prem's BaaBaa team and was wondering what the Rabo's or each country (Could do Scotland and Italy together) would be like.

I will do a team but there will be people in wrong places so I will have to edit it

15. Necewa
14. Howlett
13. LuaLua
12. Mafi
11. Chavhanga
10.
9. Pienaar
8. Wannburg
7.
6.
5. Thorn
4. Muller
3. Botha/Afoa
2.
1. Du Preiz

I would put Visser in but he is now scottish, I debated Pienaar at 9 or 10 and could pick between botha and Afoa

I know I could do more but thats if for the moment.

I would be interested on a country 15


Last edited by Brendan on Fri 25 May 2012 - 12:07; edited 1 time in total

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Post by red_stag Fri 25 May 2012 - 9:55

Whats the concept Brendan. Our foreign XV??

01 Heinke van der Merwe
02 Richardt Strauss
03 John Afoa
04 Johann Muller
05 Brad Thorn
06 Andries Pretorious
07 Pedrie Wannenburg
08 Nateli Talei
09 Ruan Pienaar
10 Miah Nikora
11 Isa Nacewa
12 Lifeimi Mafi
13 Casey Laulala
14 Doug Howlett
15 Stefan Terblanche
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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Fri 25 May 2012 - 10:17

red_stag wrote:Whats the concept Brendan. Our foreign XV??

01 Heinke van der Merwe
02 Richardt Strauss
03 John Afoa
04 Johann Muller
05 Brad Thorn
06 Andries Pretorious
07 Pedrie Wannenburg
08 Nateli Talei
09 Ruan Pienaar
10 Miah Nikora
11 Isa Nacewa
12 Lifeimi Mafi
13 Casey Laulala
14 Doug Howlett
15 Stefan Terblanche

Like this team

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 25 May 2012 - 10:31

red_stag wrote:Whats the concept Brendan. Our foreign XV??

01 Heinke van der Merwe
02 Richardt Strauss
03 John Afoa
04 Johann Muller
05 Brad Thorn
06 Andries Pretorious
07 Pedrie Wannenburg
08 Nateli Talei
09 Ruan Pienaar
10 Miah Nikora
11 Isa Nacewa
12 Lifeimi Mafi
13 Casey Laulala
14 Doug Howlett
15 Stefan Terblanche


Hang on, apart from Andries Pretorious, all the rest come from Irish provinces, surely their are some better one's in Wales.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 25 May 2012 - 10:31

JUst looking at the welsh regions (and non-welsh players)

Blair
Bowe
Lamont
Lualala
Chavanga
Parks
Fotuali'i

Manu (he can play both sides before anyone says he aint a loosehead)
A.N.Other
Fillise
Tito
Timani
Stowers
Paterson (not sure id he can play there, can't think of an opensides)
Rush

EDIT - Lamont to centre instead of Tuilagi, and Bowe on the wing.
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Post by marty2086 Fri 25 May 2012 - 10:34

LordDowlais wrote:
red_stag wrote:Whats the concept Brendan. Our foreign XV??

01 Heinke van der Merwe
02 Richardt Strauss
03 John Afoa
04 Johann Muller
05 Brad Thorn
06 Andries Pretorious
07 Pedrie Wannenburg
08 Nateli Talei
09 Ruan Pienaar
10 Miah Nikora
11 Isa Nacewa
12 Lifeimi Mafi
13 Casey Laulala
14 Doug Howlett
15 Stefan Terblanche


Hang on, apart from Andries Pretorious, all the rest come from Irish provinces, surely their are some better one's in Wales.

Which Irish province does Talei play?

Considering the Irish provinces are dominant and have quite a few foreigners its hard to argue with

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Post by red_stag Fri 25 May 2012 - 10:44

Scarlet - I didnt include Bowe, Lamont, Parks etc because they are eligable to play for Ireland and Scotland.

I thought this was about foreign players.

9 of the guys I picked in that team played in the Heineken Cup final so I think they're good enough really.
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Post by Notch Fri 25 May 2012 - 10:47

I'd put Michael Paterson in, he's quality.
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 25 May 2012 - 10:51

red_stag wrote:Scarlet - I didnt include Bowe, Lamont, Parks etc because they are eligable to play for Ireland and Scotland.

I thought this was about foreign players.

9 of the guys I picked in that team played in the Heineken Cup final so I think they're good enough really.

Yeah but I did cover my bum by saying from a Welsh point of view, as we ain't so laiden with SH players as you lot boxing
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 25 May 2012 - 11:10

ScarletSpiderman wrote:JUst looking at the welsh regions (and non-welsh players)

Blair
Bowe
Lamont

Lualala
Chavanga
Parks
Fotuali'i

Manu (he can play both sides before anyone says he aint a loosehead)
A.N.Other
Fillise
Tito
Timani
Stowers
Paterson (not sure id he can play there, can't think of an opensides)
Rush

EDIT - Lamont to centre instead of Tuilagi, and Bowe on the wing.

The highlighted are IQ or SQ so I would put

Villiame Iongi in for Bowe
Andy Tuilagi in for Lamont
I would leave Dan Parks out, as we haven't got any other fly halves who ain't qualified.

Also just thought not one of the teams has Ben Morgan in them, after all he is English.
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Post by red_stag Fri 25 May 2012 - 11:19

Actually forget about him.

Morgan In
Talei Out

Great shout!!! thumbsup
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Post by Brendan Fri 25 May 2012 - 12:06

It is meant to be non rabo country players

I can't beleive i forgot Howlet

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Post by wales606 Fri 25 May 2012 - 12:11

Notch wrote:I'd put Michael Paterson in, he's quality.

Yep, and Pretorious is almost WQ
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Post by wales606 Fri 25 May 2012 - 12:16

From Wales (starting next season)

1. Campese
2. Kyriacou
3. Deacon Manu
4. Timani
5. Micheal Paterson
6. George Stowers
7. Robin Copeland
8. Xavier Rush
9. Kahn Fotuali
10. ???
11. Hanno Dirksen
12. Steffan Watermeyer?
13. ???
14. Chavanga
15. ???

Compared to the Irish - we have sh*t NWQ players.
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Post by marty2086 Fri 25 May 2012 - 12:18

wales606 wrote:From Wales (starting next season)

1. Campese
2. Kyriacou
3. Deacon Manu
4. Timani
5. Micheal Paterson
6. George Stowers
7. Robin Copeland
8. Xavier Rush
9. Kahn Fotuali
10. ???
11. Hanno Dirksen
12. Steffan Watermeyer?
13. ???
14. Chavanga
15. ???

Compared to the Irish - we have sh*t NWQ players.

Is Dirksen not Welsh qualified already?

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Post by wales606 Fri 25 May 2012 - 12:19

marty2086 wrote:
wales606 wrote:From Wales (starting next season)

1. Campese
2. Kyriacou
3. Deacon Manu
4. Timani
5. Micheal Paterson
6. George Stowers
7. Robin Copeland
8. Xavier Rush
9. Kahn Fotuali
10. ???
11. Hanno Dirksen
12. Steffan Watermeyer?
13. ???
14. Chavanga
15. ???

Compared to the Irish - we have sh*t NWQ players.

Is Dirksen not Welsh qualified already?

Not until 2014
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Post by IanBru Fri 25 May 2012 - 12:28

Scotland - 2012-13

1. W P Nel
2. Fergus Thompson
3. Mike Cusack
4. Sean Cox
5. Isak Van der Westhuizen
6. Nateni Talei
7. Viliami Ma'afu
8. Basilaia
9. Henry Pyrgos
10. Mark Bennett
11. Tommy Seymour
12. Troy Nathan
13. DTH Van Der Merwe
14. David Lemi
15. Ben Atiga

I've been a wee bit naughty in picking Fergus Thompson and Mark Bennett, but hear me out.

Firstly, the BaaBaas have a history of picking players from the host nation, where those players are very very young or have just retired. This is the case with Bennett and Thompson respectively.

Secondly, the Scotland pro teams have, erm... no non-Scots-qualified Hookers or Fly-Halves. Give a brother a chance.
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Post by Kingshu Fri 25 May 2012 - 12:54

I remember a few years ago on the old 606 I did an NWQ v a NIQ teams.

2/3 years ago the teams were about even, the NIQ is miles better now.

Is this an improvment in NIQ and or a decline in NWQ, or as I think a bit of both.

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 25 May 2012 - 12:57

Kingshu wrote:I remember a few years ago on the old 606 I did an NWQ v a NIQ teams.

2/3 years ago the teams were about even, the NIQ is miles better now.

Is this an improvment in NIQ and or a decline in NWQ, or as I think a bit of both.

Sssssshhhhhhhh, lets not unearth this argument again, or this thread will turn into 300 posts of arguments in about five minutes. I can hear secretfly furiously typing away on his keyboard as we speak. laughing

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Post by wales606 Fri 25 May 2012 - 13:02

Kingshu wrote:I remember a few years ago on the old 606 I did an NWQ v a NIQ teams.

2/3 years ago the teams were about even, the NIQ is miles better now.

Is this an improvment in NIQ and or a decline in NWQ, or as I think a bit of both.

No more Bowe, Blair, Lamont, Tito, Molitika, King, Laulaula, Walker, Collins, Holah (and an ageing Rush)

Instead we have journeymen like Stowers and Fotuali joining last season, and several more average NWQ arriving next season.

The only good NWQ to have joined up recently have been Pretorious, Paterson, Laulaula perhaps Chavanga and potentially Dirksen
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Post by red_stag Fri 25 May 2012 - 13:05

Dowlais - but really though why is the quality of the Welsh imports declining.

Remember Jerry Collins, Marty Holah, Kees Meuews, Justin Marshall, Simon Easterby, Stefan Terblanche, Jonah Lomu, Percy Montgormery, Sean Lamont, Tommy Bowe etc.

Those were all serious rugby players.

Is it finances that has stopped these guys coming in?
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Post by LordDowlais Fri 25 May 2012 - 13:12

Yes Stag, you have hit the nail directly on the head, with this pricewaterhousecooper or whatever it is called report, the regions have to tighten their belts, this is why you are seeing so much young tallent comming through our regions and so many big names going to France.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 25 May 2012 - 13:36

Stag - another reason for the decline of NWQs of high quality is that in order to keep our younger talent playing in Wales we need to us up a chunk of our finances. So then unless we are really short in a certain position most of the NWQs seem to be squad players to cover the stars during internationals etc. For example Watermayer and O'Toole at the Ospreys and Iongi at the Scarlets.
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Post by Hound_of_Harrow Fri 25 May 2012 - 14:05

I am sure I will get stick for this post, but while Ireland seem to have attracted the best of the SH talent this only seems to be helping the Provinces do well in the HC. Too many NIQ players are holding down key positions at the Provinces and this is leading to a lack of depth (certainly international quality depth) in some positions.

With Wales now shying away from expensive foreign imports, and relying on them as mainly bench cover, the national team has vastly improved Wales have also developed impressive replacements in most positions. That was not the case two years ago.

Also do not underestimate the value of the LV= Cup as a vehicle for young Welsh players to make a mark. I was very impressed with the young Scarlets at Adams Park in the 2010-2011 season’s game.
thumbsup

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Post by red_stag Fri 25 May 2012 - 14:21

Hound in terms of the front row I dont see this is even a talking point. A resounding yes your 100% correct.

Between the 4 provinces they have 2 foreign looseheads, 4 foreign tightheads and 2 foreign hookers.

Thats an unacceptable bottleneck.
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 25 May 2012 - 14:27

Stag isn't that being sorted out for the future seasons with the only one per position thing?

Knowing the way the provinces are signing players that probably means that between the provinces they would be able to feild a side of NIQs that would be the envy of most international sides.
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Post by LordDowlais Fri 25 May 2012 - 14:29

I said earlier guys, SSsssssshhhhhhhhhhhh.

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Post by red_stag Fri 25 May 2012 - 14:30

It is being sorted but that will still be a few seasons away.

If they got it right it would mean that you would have a situation where there is just 1 Non Irish Qualified player per position and at least 2 Irish Qualified players starting per position.
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 25 May 2012 - 14:33

Yeah but what I meant is that the NIQ would most likely be one of the top five in the world in that given position. So the gain of the NIQs would not be lost, if anything possibly improved, however their downside would be vastly reduced. Top marks to Ireland IMO (If it works) as it seems like a quality idea.

Anyway can you even feild a NSQ side from Glasgow and Edinburgh this season?
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Post by Mickado Fri 25 May 2012 - 14:35

red_stag wrote:Hound in terms of the front row I dont see this is even a talking point. A resounding yes your 100% correct.

Between the 4 provinces they have 2 foreign looseheads, 4 foreign tightheads and 2 foreign hookers.

Thats an unacceptable bottleneck.

Yep. Most definitely.

The gas thing is that the IRFU approve all foreign imports under the current rules. So they’ve already rubberstamped every front row signing the provinces have. If they became more aware of it and stopped allowing provinces to make signings in these positions there would be absolutely no need for the new directives. As stag says, the front row is the only area where there is a serious lack of depth.

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 25 May 2012 - 14:41

Mickado wrote:
red_stag wrote:Hound in terms of the front row I dont see this is even a talking point. A resounding yes your 100% correct.

Between the 4 provinces they have 2 foreign looseheads, 4 foreign tightheads and 2 foreign hookers.

Thats an unacceptable bottleneck.

Yep. Most definitely.

The gas thing is that the IRFU approve all foreign imports under the current rules. So they’ve already rubberstamped every front row signing the provinces have. If they became more aware of it and stopped allowing provinces to make signings in these positions there would be absolutely no need for the new directives. As stag says, the front row is the only area where there is a serious lack of depth.

What about No. 10, you have Sexton and an old O'Gara then who ?

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Post by red_stag Fri 25 May 2012 - 14:42

Dowlais what you said (I though) was that the biggest reason Leinster were so successful was the foreign players. I still think this is untrue.

However I do agree that it is one (of many factors) in Ireland not being as successful as the provinces.

Scarlet yes if it works its a great idea. Just a case of closing the pub door after the props have bolted.

As an aside here is the amount of non nation qualified per Irish team next season:

Leinster will have three. Richardt Strauss will be Irish qualified by October. Thorn will have left. White will have left. It leaves Berquist, Van der Merwe and Nacewa remaining. That is very impressive.

Munster will have four. Two of them are props - Botha and du Preez. We will also have Howlett and Laulala. Not ideal to have two foreign props but Im ok with it. I would have thought that having used Irish props for the last decade its our turn to use a foreign one.

Ulster will have four. They are John Afoa, Jared Payne, Johann Muller and Ruan Pienaar. This is a marked improvement on previous years and they have replaced Wannenburg and Danielli with Irish international signings.

So 11 non Irish players between Ulster, Leinster and Munster isn't bad at all. It is a bit worrying that 4 of that 11 are props though.
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Post by Mickado Fri 25 May 2012 - 14:44

Madigan has been on great form all season. Second best out half in the country. ROG is far behind on this seasons evidence. Keatley under a new coaching ticket could start to find form again. It’s pretty bare after that.

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Post by Mickado Fri 25 May 2012 - 14:45

red_stag wrote:Dowlais what you said (I though) was that the biggest reason Leinster were so successful was the foreign players. I still think this is untrue.

However I do agree that it is one (of many factors) in Ireland not being as successful as the provinces.

Scarlet yes if it works its a great idea. Just a case of closing the pub door after the props have bolted.

As an aside here is the amount of non nation qualified per Irish team next season:

Leinster will have three. Richardt Strauss will be Irish qualified by October. Thorn will have left. White will have left. It leaves Berquist, Van der Merwe and Nacewa remaining. That is very impressive.

Munster will have four. Two of them are props - Botha and du Preez. We will also have Howlett and Laulala. Not ideal to have two foreign props but Im ok with it. I would have thought that having used Irish props for the last decade its our turn to use a foreign one.

Ulster will have four. They are John Afoa, Jared Payne, Johann Muller and Ruan Pienaar. This is a marked improvement on previous years and they have replaced Wannenburg and Danielli with Irish international signings.

So 11 non Irish players between Ulster, Leinster and Munster isn't bad at all. It is a bit worrying that 4 of that 11 are props though.

Berquist is signing with Biarittz as far as i know.He's not staying anyway.

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Post by red_stag Fri 25 May 2012 - 14:46

LordDowlais wrote:
Mickado wrote:
red_stag wrote:Hound in terms of the front row I dont see this is even a talking point. A resounding yes your 100% correct.

Between the 4 provinces they have 2 foreign looseheads, 4 foreign tightheads and 2 foreign hookers.

Thats an unacceptable bottleneck.

Yep. Most definitely.

The gas thing is that the IRFU approve all foreign imports under the current rules. So they’ve already rubberstamped every front row signing the provinces have. If they became more aware of it and stopped allowing provinces to make signings in these positions there would be absolutely no need for the new directives. As stag says, the front row is the only area where there is a serious lack of depth.

What about No. 10, you have Sexton and an old O'Gara then who ?

This is just a case of:

1 - You being unaware
2 - Players not getting a chance for Ireland

Ian Madigan and Paddy Jackson both played in the Heineken Cup Final. Madigan came on as a sub and Jackson started. They are 23 and 20 respectively and I would say that Madigan is a better player than O'Gara currently. At Munster we have Ian Keatley who is 25 but despite having got a few Ireland caps already never looked great. There is a very talented U20 flyhalf called JJ Hanrahan also.

I am only worried about #10 if Kidney refuses to try anything other than ROG.
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Post by wales606 Fri 25 May 2012 - 14:52

red_stag wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Mickado wrote:
red_stag wrote:Hound in terms of the front row I dont see this is even a talking point. A resounding yes your 100% correct.

Between the 4 provinces they have 2 foreign looseheads, 4 foreign tightheads and 2 foreign hookers.

Thats an unacceptable bottleneck.

Yep. Most definitely.

The gas thing is that the IRFU approve all foreign imports under the current rules. So they’ve already rubberstamped every front row signing the provinces have. If they became more aware of it and stopped allowing provinces to make signings in these positions there would be absolutely no need for the new directives. As stag says, the front row is the only area where there is a serious lack of depth.

What about No. 10, you have Sexton and an old O'Gara then who ?

This is just a case of:

1 - You being unaware
2 - Players not getting a chance for Ireland

Ian Madigan and Paddy Jackson both played in the Heineken Cup Final. Madigan came on as a sub and Jackson started. They are 23 and 20 respectively and I would say that Madigan is a better player than O'Gara currently. At Munster we have Ian Keatley who is 25 but despite having got a few Ireland caps already never looked great. There is a very talented U20 flyhalf called JJ Hanrahan also.

I am only worried about #10 if Kidney refuses to try anything other than ROG.

I thought Hanrahan was most playing centre?
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Post by red_stag Fri 25 May 2012 - 14:58

Wales606, he seems to be hovering between 10 and 12 like Henson, Carter, Flood, Wilkinson etc early in their career.

He plays #10 for his AIL (like the Welsh Principality) team but plays mainly 12 for Ireland U20 and Munster A.

I can see him being the one who ends up taking ROGs Munster shirt in time. Just a hunch.

The big issue though (outside of the props) is are young guys getting rewarded properly and mismanagement by the national team.

Another example is Donnacha O'Callaghans selection over Dan Tuohy who has been excellent (got that try for Ulster in the HEC Cup Final).
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Post by Smirnoffpriest Sun 27 May 2012 - 15:43

wales606 wrote:From Wales (starting next season)

1. Campese
2. Kyriacou
3. Deacon Manu
4. Timani
5. Micheal Paterson
6. George Stowers
7. Robin Copeland
8. Xavier Rush
9. Kahn Fotuali
10. ???
11. Hanno Dirksen
12. Steffan Watermeyer?
13. ???
14. Chavanga
15. ???

Compared to the Irish - we have sh*t NWQ players.

You could have Blair (10), Ionghi (15) and Tuilagi (13)

Hardly inspiring though is it?

But to be fair - Ionghi, Watermeyer, Copeland, Manu, Kyriacou aren't 1st choice (just used to cover absences or give squad depth), Blair is leaving and Dirksen and Patterson could be WQ in a few years,

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Post by wales606 Sun 27 May 2012 - 15:50

Smirnoffpriest wrote:
wales606 wrote:From Wales (starting next season)

1. Campese
2. Kyriacou
3. Deacon Manu
4. Timani
5. Micheal Paterson
6. George Stowers
7. Robin Copeland
8. Xavier Rush
9. Kahn Fotuali
10. ???
11. Hanno Dirksen
12. Steffan Watermeyer?
13. ???
14. Chavanga
15. ???

Compared to the Irish - we have sh*t NWQ players.

You could have Blair (10), Ionghi (15) and Tuilagi (13)

Hardly inspiring though is it?

But to be fair - Ionghi, Watermeyer, Copeland, Manu, Kyriacou aren't 1st choice (just used to cover absences or give squad depth), Blair is leaving and Dirksen and Patterson could be WQ in a few years,

Blair won't be here next season :/
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Post by Smirnoffpriest Sun 27 May 2012 - 15:50

wales606 wrote:
Smirnoffpriest wrote:
wales606 wrote:From Wales (starting next season)

1. Campese
2. Kyriacou
3. Deacon Manu
4. Timani
5. Micheal Paterson
6. George Stowers
7. Robin Copeland
8. Xavier Rush
9. Kahn Fotuali
10. ???
11. Hanno Dirksen
12. Steffan Watermeyer?
13. ???
14. Chavanga
15. ???

Compared to the Irish - we have sh*t NWQ players.

You could have Blair (10), Ionghi (15) and Tuilagi (13)

Hardly inspiring though is it?

But to be fair - Ionghi, Watermeyer, Copeland, Manu, Kyriacou aren't 1st choice (just used to cover absences or give squad depth), Blair is leaving and Dirksen and Patterson could be WQ in a few years,

Blair won't be here next season :/

Picky picky picky...
Very Happy

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