Springboks vs England, squad announcements and matchday thread.

[Biltong]

First topic message reminder :

I will update as more information is released.

Springbok team announced for the first test vs England.

15 Zane Kirchner, caps 14
14 JP Pietersen, caps 42
13 Jean de Villiers (captain), caps 72
12 Frans Steyn, caps 47
11 Bryan Habana, caps 74
10 Morné Steyn, caps 34
9 Francois Hougaard, caps 15
8 Pierre Spies, caps 47
7 Willem Alberts, caps 9
6 Marcell Coetzee, caps 0
5 Juandré Kruger, caps 0
4 Eben Etzebeth, caps 0
3 Jannie du Plessis, caps 30
2 Bismarck du Plessis, caps 42
1 Beast Mtawarira, caps 32

Replacements:
16 Adriaan Strauss, caps 9
17 Coenie Oosthuizen, caps 0
18 Flip van der Merwe, caps 11
19 Keegan Daniel, caps 1
20 Ruan Pienaar, caps 51
21 Pat Lambie, caps 11
22 Wynand Olivier, caps 34

I am surprised and happy to see Eben etzebeth in the starting XV and Strauss on the bench, Meyer has gone for a 4-3 split on the bench which is interesting. The pack has 160 combined caps with 4 debutants, the back line has a combined cap of 302 caps.

I am actually rather impressed with Meyer's selections. The English may see this pack as vulnerable and inexperienced, but I think it is a rather exciting pack. full of mobility and physicality.

England Team:

15 Mike Brown, caps 3
14 Chris Ashton, caps 23
13 Manusamoa Tuilagi, caps 10
12 Brad Barritt, caps 5
11 Ben Foden, caps 26
10 Owen Farrell, caps 5
9 Ben Youngs, caps 17
8 Ben Morgan, caps 5
7 Chris Robshaw (C), caps 6
6 Tom Johnson, 0 caps
5 Geoff Parling, 2 caps
4 Mouritz Botha, 6 caps
3 Dan Cole, 25 caps
2 Dylan Hartley, 34 caps
1 Joe Marler, 0 caps


Replacements:
16 Lee Mears, 38 caps
17 Paul Doran Jones, 3 caps
18 Tom Palmer, 37 caps
19 Phil Dowson, 5 caps
20 Lee Dickson, 0 caps
21 Toby Flood, 46 caps
22 Jonathan Joseph, 0 caps

[formerly known as Sam]

England lost to Wales for no other reason than Youngs coming on to the pitch

I think the replacement lock getting stripped and a chip over the top with nobody covering 15 was the main difference between the sides personally. Ben Youngs certainly played well in the final game against Ireland. At that point in the season he should have been no where near the England squad though, he had no pre season or RWC build up because of injury and was then thrown in the deep end. I don't think he was a 100% fit until the last month a half of the season. He certainly looked slimmer and fitter in the AP Final (where he was easily Tigers best player and dragged them back into the game) compared to the 6N. He'll still need the other players to adapt to his game though as he will want to pick, draw and pass which seemed to confuse the likes of Botha, Dowson and Robshaw in the 6N.

Who the hell is Tom Johnson?

Exeter Chiefs blindside. 30 years old and came through the lower leagues, big work rate and a touch of pace makes him a decent option at the moment but no chance of becomming an international superstar.

[Chjw131]

From the Daily Telegraph:

England XV: M Brown (Harlequins); C Ashton (Northampton), M Tuilagi (Leicester), B Barritt (Saracens), B Foden (Northampton); O Farrell (Saracens), B Youngs (Leicester); J Marler (Harlequins), D Hartley (Northampton), D Cole (Leicester), M Botha (Saracens), G Parling (Leicester), T Johnson (Exeter), C Robshaw (Harlequins, capt), B Morgan (Scarlets).

Replacements: L Mears (Bath), P Doran Jones (Northampton), T Palmer (Stade Francais), P Dowson (Northampton), L Dickson (Northampton), T Flood (Leicester), J Joseph (London Irish).

[beshocked]

Youngs has been at his best for England recently coming off the bench and playing with Flood.

My solution either start with Youngs-Flood or put Youngs with Flood on the bench to come on together.


Sam I worry about you saying that other people should adapt to Youngs. Surely Youngs should work as a team player?

Pick a gameplan and use the most suitable player. If you want more structure go for Dickson, more flair, tempo off the bench pick Youngs/Care.

[Chjw131]

Looks to be a sensible selection to me. We were always going to have to come up with some way to counter the Bok's kicking game and Brown does that at FB. Not sure how Foden will go on the wing, his defence is always pretty solid, but his kicking may come into question on tight angles.

Outside of Farrell and Brown there aren't really any other kickers and Youngs' box kicking can be questionable at times.

On the whole though it's nice to see Johnson given a go ahead of the steady Dowson and also that Marler has been thrown into the mix, his work around the park will be needed. For me, that goes some way to assuaging the fact that we don't have a particularly heavy weight SR.

The bench looks somewhat improved from the 6N, but still has it's pitfalls. It's nice to see Joseph given a chance to cover wing and centre, and hopefully he'll come on to replace Tuilagi or Barritt at some point. Flood back in the picture can only be a good thing, and hopefully he can demonstrate that he should be the starting FH.

On the downside Lee Mears, Lee Dickson and Phil Dowson are there. Care will have a chance to stake his claim mid-week and I don't think Lancaster could afford to bring him straight back in. Plus Dickson will play less and mean Flood could get some better ball if and when they come on.

[EnglishReign]

It just amazes me how Lancaster puts Foden on the wing, but was happy to persevere with Strettle throughout the 6N and ignore wingers in better form. Now he drops Strettle, but for a fullback, rather than an in-form Wade?

I'm not saying it won't work, I just don't think I "get it".

Happy with the pack though.

[Chjw131]

Strettle is injured ER, so it was Foden or Wade and for the way we want to play another FB on the wing is probably the right option.

I wonder where Armitage is?!

[LondonTiger]

Beshocked,

Every player has their style. Dickson likes to pass (or sit forever at the base and then kick) and would work much better with Farrell.

Care and Youngs like to mix the game up more - and keep the opposition back rows guessing. They have decent passes - but if the satnd-off stands too far away the options they have are limited and they are reduced to passing or kicking - which Dickson is more suited to.

I do wonder now if we may see Robshaw at first receiver - similar to the AP final. The threat he would offer in support of Youngs making breaks or making the SA back row think he will, and then the lines that Barritt/Manu/Ashton could run in support of Robshaw could make things interesting.

[pbuk0]

No a bad team... the big surprise is that Foden is on the Wing.. England have good specialist wingers who can do a job there ie Wade/ Monye.. However lets see how it goes but it seems a defensive move to me to have 2 full backs..

I would have personally would have played Flood at 10 but he hasn't played for a few weeks so can see the sense in playing Farrell.

Danny Care has been the in form scrum half so should have been in the 22.. Dickson is solid and not really international quality..

I am looking forward to seeing Marler starting as it is a big endorsment on his scrummaging from Rowntree to start him..

Although Johnson is no spring chicken he deserves his place in the absense of Wood/ Croft / Haskell.. Although I expect Haskell to replace Dowson in the 22 for the 2nd test...

What is Mears doing on the bench.. please put him out to pasture and give the young hookers a chance.. Everytime Mears plays for England, the scrum is under pressure. He was also partly to blame for the lions first test problems at Scrum time...

[offload]

I understand that Farrell did well at 10 in the 6N's but is he now England's first choice ? I thought Flood was the best 10 in England?

That does look a strong pack.

[wasps]

I'm not sure that starting Wade would have been a good idea for the 1st test.

Wade is great, and as a Wasps fan I hope he goes on to have an amazing career.
However, I wouldn't want to start him in the 1st test in SA.

Maybe play him in a mid-weeker, and then run out at the end of the series, but I'd rather have some players with more experience starting the 1st test.

[formerly known as Sam]

Sam I worry about you saying that other people should adapt to Youngs. Surely Youngs should work as a team player?

You've got to utilise the players you select. Asking Youngs to pass from the base and box kick when in his own half is not utilising him. The players around him didn't react to his pick up and play style in the 6N which magnified his lack of fitness and form. Compare that to the last 6N England won where Youngs picked up, drew the first defender and offloaded to a forward on an angle. It made him look better than perhaps he was playing. If you're going to select a creative player you need to use their skills otherwise to my mind it's a waste.

[Cumbrian]

I understand that Farrell did well at 10 in the 6N's but is he now England's first choice ? I thought Flood was the best 10 in England?

That does look a strong pack.

I think Flood still has the niggly injury that caused him to miss the end of the season. The question for me is, why have him in the squad if he is not fully fit? For me he either starts or he is out of the team all together.

[nobbled]

Looking forward to seeing what Foden can offer on the wing - I assume he's there as a second fullback to counter the Boks kicking game. Could work well!
Farrell - Barritt, not inspiring - and if Tuilagi doesn't get a few passes off we won't see Ashton.

[Biltong]

I am going to merge this with the other article.

[pbuk0]

Can't wait to see what Joseph can do off the Bench.. I hope he gets 25-30 mins in place of Barritt or Brown... I see Tuilagi and Joseph being the England centre partnership for years to come.. Hopefully one of them can adapt to playing 12..

[Cumbrian]

I think it is likely that Joseph will come on for either Foden or Brown. I wouldn't mind see him ease himself into international rugby on the wing.

[EnglishReign]

Strettle is injured ER, so it was Foden or Wade and for the way we want to play another FB on the wing is probably the right option.

I wonder where Armitage is?!

Ah, didn't realise that. Still, Monye has experience of playing SA away with the Lions. Might've been a safer bet.

Don't really care, just hope we absolutely smash them. God knows, we owe them a couple.

[Duty281]

England to counter and defend well and to take a narrow win over the Springboks. Come on England!

[Biltong]

Strettle is injured ER, so it was Foden or Wade and for the way we want to play another FB on the wing is probably the right option.

I wonder where Armitage is?!

Ah, didn't realise that. Still, Monye has experience of playing SA away with the Lions. Might've been a safer bet.

Don't really care, just hope they we don't absolutely smash them us. God knows, we owe them a couple it hurts.

fixed.

[EnglishReign]

Strettle is injured ER, so it was Foden or Wade and for the way we want to play another FB on the wing is probably the right option.

I wonder where Armitage is?!

Ah, didn't realise that. Still, Monye has experience of playing SA away with the Lions. Might've been a safer bet.

Don't really care, just hope they we don't absolutely smash them us. God knows, we owe them a couple it hurts.

fixed.

We have two of the biggest WUMS in world rugby in our front row, they need to be on form.

[anotherworldofpain]

...I wouldn't mind see him ease himself into international rugby on the wing.

This say a lot of things ...

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

The bench looks like Martin Johnson picked it.

[RubyGuby]

What bench?

and

Some english poster said earlier that Hartley can wind up the Du Plessis's - Touch of the pot, kettle and black there as if Hartley starts to get agitated then he is likely to become a penalty machine with his petulance - Discipline will be key here - A possible 21-15

[funnyExiledScot]

Foden is going to need a massive game under the high ball and on the counter attack. If he can run it back effectively then England could be in business, but it's going to be a tough one. Might be some mileage in picking Brown and 15 and Foden on the wing across from Ashton, getting two 15's into the back three.

I called Brown at 15 and Foden on the wing last night. Given the kicking options in the Boks team, I think it makes good sense. Brown is better at the basics than Foden.

Owen Farrell vs Morne Steyn at fly half. This will be exciting to watch!!

[formerly known as Sam]

Some english poster said earlier that Hartley can wind up the Du Plessis's - Touch of the pot, kettle and black there as if Hartley starts to get agitated then he is likely to become a penalty machine with his petulance - Discipline will be key here - A possible 21-15

Not really, Hartley doesn't really have much of a temper he doesn't really lose his cool as just sometimes get caught out by more experienced players that are better at the dark arts then he is. In those cases he gets pinged by the ref as it's obvious what he's attempting to do at the breakdown. I think the only bit of trouble he's been in all season was when Ferris decided it was fair game to wrestle him to the floor by his neck and then insert his fingers into his mouth and Hartley bit.

He really improved his temprement over the course of this season and isn't much of a penalty machine compared to other England players (I'm thinking Stevens here). To be honest if SA wanted to wind someone up for a reaction Manu would be the number 1 candidate seeing as he has the Tuilagi temper as well as being England's only midfield threat ball in hand.

[Islingtonv2]

Is this the most inexperienced English team ever? 167 caps between the first 15 must be some sort of record?

And no it should absolutely not be used as an excuse when everything goes jubblies up.

[RubyGuby]

Trust me Sam - Hartley's temperament remains fragile and if pushed he will "go off". He has improved his self control I'll grant you that but I still see him as a liability on occasion as a consequence of his temperament

[George Carlin]

Biltong - have you ever seen a Bokke lock pairing as young/inexperienced as that? Can you tell us anything about them?

[Cumbrian]

...I wouldn't mind see him ease himself into international rugby on the wing.

This say a lot of things ...

Such as? I don't want to remove one of our most important players, Tuilagi? That I want him to get experience in a less pressurised position that he's played a fair bit of in the past?

For the record, your assumptions say a lot of things too.

[Biltong]

George, many pudits in Sa beleives Juandre Kruger would have been a bokc long ago was it not for Victor Matfield being such a prominent player.

He is expected to marshall the Springbok line out for the next number of years, although I don't see him as a ball carrier in the manner of Andries Bekker, he certainly is a big physical lock.

Eben Etzebeth is still a baby, in lock terms, he doesn't have a lot of experience, but is very highly rated, we don't often play a youngster in his first season of Super rugby at test level, but when we do you can count on him being a bit of a promising future star. He is very physical, some have likened him to Bakkies Botha, but he says, he doesn't want to be the next Bakkies.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by Gavin Rich 04 June 2012, 12:05


Eben Etzebeth was sitting exhausted in the Loftus change-room celebrating with his Stormers teammates when a team management member told him he had become a Springbok -- and he reacted by bursting into tears.

“I have to admit that a few tears went down my face when I was told I was in the squad, it was unbelievable news,” said Etzebeth, who is just 20 years of age and hadn’t even played Super Rugby before the start of the current season.

“Saturday was definitely the best day of my rugby life. To beat the Bulls at Loftus was awesome, a truly awesome feeling, and then afterwards to be told you have realised your dream of becoming a Springbok. Well, it was just unbelieveable. It was an emotional day for all of us, we really had to dig deep to win against the Bulls, and we were exhausted but very happy.”

Etzebeth was playing in the backline for one of the lower teams at Tygerberg High just a few seasons ago. Although born into a rugby family -- his uncles Cliffie and Skattie were legendary figures in Western Cape rugby in a previous era -- and filled with the burning ambition to make a success of the game, that did not look likely before former Springbok lock Hennie Bekker visited Tygerberg to help the first team three years ago.

Bekker, now in charge of youth rugby at WP and the father of Etzebeth’s regular lock partner, Andries Bekker, has recounted how he spotted Etzebeth and took up a role in charting his career.

“I was helping the first team at Tygerberg when I spotted this really big guy running with the backs in one of the lower teams on another field,” recalls Bekker.

“I asked the guys who the big fellow was and they told me he was one of the Etzebeths, and I called him over. I told him to come to the WP Elite Squad sessions that I ran every week, but told him that he had to make a promise to me that he would be completely committed and would work hard. He made that promise. He also promised that he would stop messing around in the backs and become only a lock after that.”

Etzebeth’s rise from there was quite meteoric, and he quickly progressed to a point where he could nail down a spot in the WP Craven Week team and from there he furthered his rugby development by attending the WP Institute in Stellenbosch.

“I knew that if he worked hard he would make it big as he has all the attributes. He is very quick for his size and has great skills,” said Bekker.

Etzebeth periodically wore a No 5 on his back when he played in the WP junior level teams and for UCT in the Varsity Cup, but he says he has always filled the role of a No 4.

NOT A BOTHA CLONE

“Being a No 4 lock is about always being confrontational and having attitude. I suppose you could say it is about being the enforcer, and it is a role that I like,” said Etzebeth.

If, as anticipated, he is selected for Saturday’s first test against England at Kings Park, he will be fitting into the boots vacated by the legendary Bakkies Botha, and also filling the role that the former Bulls player performed for so many years. However, he says he hasn’t modeled himself on Botha and doesn’t intend becoming a Botha clone.

“I want to do my own thing and don’t want to be like anybody else,” he said.

Etzebeth is being closely guided and his progress monitored at the Stormers by forwards coach Matthew Proudfoot, who has said that he would like Etzebeth to become a lock who is capable of playing both at No 4 and No 5, with Proudfoot saying in a recent magazine interview that the rugby public have yet to see the full extent of Etzebeth’s abilities.

“He is actually a superb lineout jumper, he has great ability there, but at the Stormers, because we have so seldom been shut down (when Bekker and Duane Vermeulen are playing), we haven’t needed to use him that much as yet,” said Proudfoot.

Etzebeth said he is looking forward to the challenge of taking on more responsibility as he gains more experience.

“That is true, we are working towards that, but at this stage I don’t know when I am going to be given the task of running the lineout,” said Etzebeth.

The big lock is deceptively fast for a big man and has enough pace to play loose-forward should it be required.

“I did a lot of sprinting when I was at school and I don’t think I have lost that pace,” he said.

As a new kid on the block in Super Rugby, Etzebeth is not well acquainted yet with the players from the other franchises. However he was already fitting in well when he spoke to SuperSport.com at the team hotel in Umhlanga Rocks on Sunday.

“Fortunately my friends Siya Kolisi and Frans Malherbe have joined the squad for the learning experience, so that helps, but so far everyone has been very welcoming. We are not talking about this past weekend of Super Rugby, we are all looking forward to the challenge we face as teammates against England.”

[Barney McGrew did it]

Trust me Sam - Hartley's temperament remains fragile and if pushed he will "go off". He has improved his self control I'll grant you that but I still see him as a liability on occasion as a consequence of his temperament

No. A common misconception (or occasionally wishful thinking).

[anotherworldofpain]

...I wouldn't mind see him ease himself into international rugby on the wing.

This say a lot of things ...

Such as? I don't want to remove one of our most important players, Tuilagi? That I want him to get experience in a less pressurised position that he's played a fair bit of in the past?

For the record, your assumptions say a lot of things too.

That you respect about importance of the wing so small that you think start there is "ease into international rugby". Terrible comment on so many things and make reinforced the stereotypes! Nothing unpressure about wing play at international level. Your statement is just quite offensive and naive.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

...I wouldn't mind see him ease himself into international rugby on the wing.

This say a lot of things ...

Such as? I don't want to remove one of our most important players, Tuilagi? That I want him to get experience in a less pressurised position that he's played a fair bit of in the past?

For the record, your assumptions say a lot of things too.

That you respect about importance of the wing so small that you think start there is "ease into international rugby". Terrible comment on so many things and make reinforced the stereotypes! Nothing unpressure about wing play at international level. Your statement is just quite offensive and naive.

They let Tom Croft ease himself into the Lions playing there

[Cumbrian]

...I wouldn't mind see him ease himself into international rugby on the wing.

This say a lot of things ...

Such as? I don't want to remove one of our most important players, Tuilagi? That I want him to get experience in a less pressurised position that he's played a fair bit of in the past?

For the record, your assumptions say a lot of things too.

That you respect about importance of the wing so small that you think start there is "ease into international rugby". Terrible comment on so many things and make reinforced the stereotypes! Nothing unpressure about wing play at international level. Your statement is just quite offensive and naive.

Offensive and naive? Get over yourself precious, I played both wing and centre myself! I disagree with you. I feel centre play is more specialised, requires more awareness and has more responsibilities within the team. For the record I am not saying that I don't think Joseph is up to playing 13 either, I was saying that it wouldn't hurt him to play wing. If you look at the set up of the match day squad it seems to me that Lancaster clearly agrees.

Notice here how I am presenting my arguments as opinions, whilst you are presenting yours as absolute facts by the way.

[Morgannwg]

GG

Tell that to the All Blacks who were playing 2 centre's on the wing during the world cup!

[formerly known as Sam]

Trust me Sam - Hartley's temperament remains fragile and if pushed he will "go off".

Why do you know him personally?

I've seen him in some fracticious matches this season but he kept himself out of trouble and didn't attract the attention of the ref. He picked up no YCs this season unlike Cole who got one for arguing with the ref (to be fair the ref was desperate to card a Tigers player) and Marler has 3 so far this season (though he played 29 games which is more than the other two).

[George Carlin]

George, many pudits in Sa beleives Juandre Kruger would have been a bokc long ago was it not for Victor Matfield being such a prominent player.

He is expected to marshall the Springbok line out for the next number of years, although I don't see him as a ball carrier in the manner of Andries Bekker, he certainly is a big physical lock.

Eben Etzebeth is still a baby, in lock terms, he doesn't have a lot of experience, but is very highly rated, we don't often play a youngster in his first season of Super rugby at test level, but when we do you can count on him being a bit of a promising future star. He is very physical, some have likened him to Bakkies Botha, but he says, he doesn't want to be the next Bakkies.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by Gavin Rich 04 June 2012, 12:05


Eben Etzebeth was sitting exhausted in the Loftus change-room celebrating with his Stormers teammates when a team management member told him he had become a Springbok -- and he reacted by bursting into tears.

“I have to admit that a few tears went down my face when I was told I was in the squad, it was unbelievable news,” said Etzebeth, who is just 20 years of age and hadn’t even played Super Rugby before the start of the current season.

“Saturday was definitely the best day of my rugby life. To beat the Bulls at Loftus was awesome, a truly awesome feeling, and then afterwards to be told you have realised your dream of becoming a Springbok. Well, it was just unbelieveable. It was an emotional day for all of us, we really had to dig deep to win against the Bulls, and we were exhausted but very happy.”

Etzebeth was playing in the backline for one of the lower teams at Tygerberg High just a few seasons ago. Although born into a rugby family -- his uncles Cliffie and Skattie were legendary figures in Western Cape rugby in a previous era -- and filled with the burning ambition to make a success of the game, that did not look likely before former Springbok lock Hennie Bekker visited Tygerberg to help the first team three years ago.

Bekker, now in charge of youth rugby at WP and the father of Etzebeth’s regular lock partner, Andries Bekker, has recounted how he spotted Etzebeth and took up a role in charting his career.

“I was helping the first team at Tygerberg when I spotted this really big guy running with the backs in one of the lower teams on another field,” recalls Bekker.

“I asked the guys who the big fellow was and they told me he was one of the Etzebeths, and I called him over. I told him to come to the WP Elite Squad sessions that I ran every week, but told him that he had to make a promise to me that he would be completely committed and would work hard. He made that promise. He also promised that he would stop messing around in the backs and become only a lock after that.”

Etzebeth’s rise from there was quite meteoric, and he quickly progressed to a point where he could nail down a spot in the WP Craven Week team and from there he furthered his rugby development by attending the WP Institute in Stellenbosch.

“I knew that if he worked hard he would make it big as he has all the attributes. He is very quick for his size and has great skills,” said Bekker.

Etzebeth periodically wore a No 5 on his back when he played in the WP junior level teams and for UCT in the Varsity Cup, but he says he has always filled the role of a No 4.

NOT A BOTHA CLONE

“Being a No 4 lock is about always being confrontational and having attitude. I suppose you could say it is about being the enforcer, and it is a role that I like,” said Etzebeth.

If, as anticipated, he is selected for Saturday’s first test against England at Kings Park, he will be fitting into the boots vacated by the legendary Bakkies Botha, and also filling the role that the former Bulls player performed for so many years. However, he says he hasn’t modeled himself on Botha and doesn’t intend becoming a Botha clone.

“I want to do my own thing and don’t want to be like anybody else,” he said.

Etzebeth is being closely guided and his progress monitored at the Stormers by forwards coach Matthew Proudfoot, who has said that he would like Etzebeth to become a lock who is capable of playing both at No 4 and No 5, with Proudfoot saying in a recent magazine interview that the rugby public have yet to see the full extent of Etzebeth’s abilities.

“He is actually a superb lineout jumper, he has great ability there, but at the Stormers, because we have so seldom been shut down (when Bekker and Duane Vermeulen are playing), we haven’t needed to use him that much as yet,” said Proudfoot.

Etzebeth said he is looking forward to the challenge of taking on more responsibility as he gains more experience.

“That is true, we are working towards that, but at this stage I don’t know when I am going to be given the task of running the lineout,” said Etzebeth.

The big lock is deceptively fast for a big man and has enough pace to play loose-forward should it be required.

“I did a lot of sprinting when I was at school and I don’t think I have lost that pace,” he said.

As a new kid on the block in Super Rugby, Etzebeth is not well acquainted yet with the players from the other franchises. However he was already fitting in well when he spoke to SuperSport.com at the team hotel in Umhlanga Rocks on Sunday.

“Fortunately my friends Siya Kolisi and Frans Malherbe have joined the squad for the learning experience, so that helps, but so far everyone has been very welcoming. We are not talking about this past weekend of Super Rugby, we are all looking forward to the challenge we face as teammates against England.”

You are the man. Should be titanic. Looking forward to it.

[Bullsbok]

Trust me Sam - Hartley's temperament remains fragile and if pushed he will "go off".

Why do you know him personally?

I've seen him in some fracticious matches this season but he kept himself out of trouble and didn't attract the attention of the ref. He picked up no YCs this season unlike Cole who got one for arguing with the ref (to be fair the ref was desperate to card a Tigers player) and Marler has 3 so far this season (though he played 29 games which is more than the other two).

Well if he winds up the Duplessis Brothers he will get excatly what he's looking for. Both are just waiting to explode on someone . But to be fair , Bissy does look like he has SOME measure of self control ,(or maybe he knows he will get carded and lose the game ) and if you're wondering what i'm on about i refer you to this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcGyWqQNPBs
The point stands though, Bismarck and Jannie can be liabilities if pushed too far

[Biltong]

read the comments below that clip, hilarious.

[Bullsbok]

Think it was after viewing that clip and the Whole post game drink refusal that my opinion on BoD changed. Never liked him since

[Morgannwg]

Bismarck offered him a beer after the game and BOD refused? Fairplay I didn't think there was such a thing as a nice South African.

[Bullsbok]

No ,Springboks invite every team to share a post game beer in the changing rooms (so i've heard ) and apparently the Lions refused because a "senior Irish player " didnt want to . i suppose they wouldnt want to share a beer with the victors after a loss but considering the Boks extend the invitiation regardless of the result refusing seems like a very sour thing to do .

[Morgannwg]

If it was after the 2nd test, I could understand why the Lions refused. Also, I didn't think any SH team drank beer after a game. I thought the Springboks played badminton and squash post rugby matches!

[Bullsbok]

dont know why i continue feeding you

[Portnoy]

Why should this be a sticky?

Makes no sense.

It's an event that will shortly come an go

[formerly known as Sam]

My memory is hazy but wasn't that the same game as the incident on Fitzgerald? If emotions were running high after that it may have been understandable. However, if wasn't that test then refusing a beer isn't good manners.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Why should this be a sticky?

Makes no sense.

It's an event that will shortly come an go

It's a sticky for a few days Portnoy. Similar to the SXV ones which go up for each weekend and then get taken down again (as long as I remember to ).

[Bullsbok]

My memory is hazy but wasn't that the same game as the incident on Fitzgerald? If emotions were running high after that it may have been understandable. However, if wasn't that test then refusing a beer isn't good manners.

it was actually. And is there a better way than settling the issue once and for all over a beer not a series of interviews (Which once again entrenched my dislike of BoD )

[Ozzy3213]

Whether this game will be exciting is debatable given the selections, but I think it will be an intriguing one. Some big calls from both managers, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how the new caps on both sides go. The teams are remarkably similar in make up (with the exception of the back 3's maybe)

For me South Africa remain favourites, but if the English pack can get on top, and they can remain defensive sound and not give daft penalties away, then we have a chance of winning this game.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Whether this game will be exciting is debatable given the selections

Theres two kinds of exciting. England vs barbarians and scotland vs aus.
I suspect this game with be more like the second.

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