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England U20 vs Ireland U20

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Post by Cumbrian Thu 07 Jun 2012, 5:41 pm

England squad has been announced:

http://www.rfu.com/News/2012/June/NewsArticles/070612_20s_teamire.aspx

15 Tommy Bell (London Wasps)
14 Marland Yarde (London Irish)
13 Will Addison (Sale Sharks)
12 Ryan Mills (Gloucester Rugby) (C)
11 Charlie Walker (Harlequins)
10 Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby)
9 Ben Spencer (Saracens)

1 Alec Hepburn (London Wasps)
2 Koree Britton (Gloucester Rugby)
3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
4 Dominic Barrow (Leeds Carnegie)
5 George Merrick (Harlequins)
6 David Sisi (London Irish)
7 Ben Nutley (Northampton Saints)
8 Jack Clifford (Harlequins)

Replacements
16 Max Crumpton (Saracens)
17 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
18 Ross Harrison (Sale Sharks)
19 Sam Twomey (Harlequins)
20 Chris Walker (Leeds Carnegie)
21 Dan Robson (Gloucester Rugby)
22 Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs)
23 Ben Ransom (Saracens)


Ireland are unchanged from the side that beat S.A


15. Peter Nelson (Dungannon/Ulster)
14. Barry Daly (UCD/Leinster)
13. Chris Farrell (Dungannon/Ulster)
12. Foster Horan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11. Sam Coghlan Murray (UCD/Leinster)
10. JJ Hanrahan (UL Bohemians/Munster)
9. Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht)

1. Des Merrey (Clontarf/Leinster)
2. Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) (capt)
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
4. Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Leinster)
5. Iain Henderson (Queen's University/Ulster)
6. Jordan Coghlan (UCD/Leinster)
7. Conor Gilsenan (UCD/Mullingar/Leinster)
8. Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)

Replacements:

16. James Rael (Garryowen/Munster)
17. Peter Reilly (Lansdowne/Leinster)
18. Jake Cawley (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
19. Alan O'Connor (UCD/Leinster)
20. Shane Buckley (Garryowen/Munster)
21. Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)
22. Jack Carty (Buccaneers/Connacht)
23. Stuart Olding (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
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Post by Golden Thu 07 Jun 2012, 5:45 pm

Why change a winning team I guess but would have preferred to see McGrath starting.

Who are the danger men in the England side? The only ones ive seen are Spencer and Heathcote.

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Post by Thomond Thu 07 Jun 2012, 5:47 pm

I'm a bit nervous ahead of this one. England were quite a bit better in the 6 Nations, I think Ireland are capable of it but it will be a big ask. Best of luck to them ahead of a great weekend for Irish sport!

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Thu 07 Jun 2012, 5:47 pm

Is this game on Saturday? This will be a tough one. England literally made us look like boys.

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Post by Golden Thu 07 Jun 2012, 5:48 pm

Friday at 18:45 i think

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Thu 07 Jun 2012, 5:49 pm

Thanks!

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Post by Golden Thu 07 Jun 2012, 5:50 pm

Oops 17:45 my mistake

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Thu 07 Jun 2012, 5:56 pm

Ten changes shows the strength in depth England have at this age grade.

That back line looks pretty exciting to me but the Irish should not be under estimated after the great win against SA.

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Post by Cumbrian Thu 07 Jun 2012, 6:00 pm

Golden wrote:Why change a winning team I guess but would have preferred to see McGrath starting.

Who are the danger men in the England side? The only ones ive seen are Spencer and Heathcote.

Will Addison has had quite a lot of experience in the AP, he plays from 12 outwards and is very strong, quick and elusive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLJQsnqCpQY


George Merrick will add more steel to the second row, which looked a little lightweight against Italy.

Ryan Mills will organise the midfield better and the passing should be more accurate, with less misplaced ones.
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Post by profitius Thu 07 Jun 2012, 6:25 pm

Golden wrote:Why change a winning team I guess but would have preferred to see McGrath starting.

Who are the danger men in the England side? The only ones ive seen are Spencer and Heathcote.

I don't think McGrath is as good as some people think he is. The problem is his passing is not great and for a 9 thats the basic requirement.
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Post by EnglishReign Thu 07 Jun 2012, 6:30 pm

Yeahh, Millsy captain. Good team.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Thu 07 Jun 2012, 6:34 pm

profitius wrote:
Golden wrote:Why change a winning team I guess but would have preferred to see McGrath starting.

Who are the danger men in the England side? The only ones ive seen are Spencer and Heathcote.

I don't think McGrath is as good as some people think he is. The problem is his passing is not great and for a 9 thats the basic requirement.
He played really well in the 6n

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Post by asoreleftshoulder Thu 07 Jun 2012, 6:40 pm

profitius wrote:
Golden wrote:Why change a winning team I guess but would have preferred to see McGrath starting.

Who are the danger men in the England side? The only ones ive seen are Spencer and Heathcote.

I don't think McGrath is as good as some people think he is. The problem is his passing is not great and for a 9 thats the basic requirement.

I think he will be very good but he's still a bit small,he's only 18 so has another few years of development to go yet he has plenty of time to work on his skills but for now I'd agree with keeping him as an impact sub.

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Post by profitius Thu 07 Jun 2012, 6:44 pm

How many of that English squad have played in the Aviva Premiership?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
profitius wrote:
Golden wrote:Why change a winning team I guess but would have preferred to see McGrath starting.

Who are the danger men in the England side? The only ones ive seen are Spencer and Heathcote.

I don't think McGrath is as good as some people think he is. The problem is his passing is not great and for a 9 thats the basic requirement.
He played really well in the 6n

He was ok. I'm not writing him off, he has another year at this level.
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Post by LondonTiger Thu 07 Jun 2012, 6:59 pm

profitius wrote:How many of that English squad have played in the Aviva Premiership?

Over half. 6 of the backs (Tommy Bell played in the championship for Leeds). Less in the pack - though Nutley at 7 appeared in AP and HC matches.

The line-up is not quite the strongest available from the squad selected, but a fair bit stronger than against Italy.


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Post by Golden Thu 07 Jun 2012, 7:25 pm

profitius wrote:
Golden wrote:Why change a winning team I guess but would have preferred to see McGrath starting.

Who are the danger men in the England side? The only ones ive seen are Spencer and Heathcote.

I don't think McGrath is as good as some people think he is. The problem is his passing is not great and for a 9 thats the basic requirement.

Hes better than marmion and hes a leader and kicker.

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Post by niwatts Thu 07 Jun 2012, 7:38 pm

profitius wrote:How many of that English squad have played in the Aviva Premiership?

Yarde, Addison, Mills, Walker, Heathcote, Spencer, Sisi, Nutley & Robson have all played AP rugby.



Golden wrote:Who are the danger men in the England side? The only ones ive seen are Spencer and Heathcote.


I'd say Yarde & Walker will be the apparent running threats (Ransom too when he comes on), but Heathcote & Mills are quality playmakers and Spencer should be a thorn. I know less about the forwards, but Sisi is a big physical carrier and Nutley is considered a Moody mk2 (likes to throw himself about with little regard to his own personal safety).

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Post by Poorfour Thu 07 Jun 2012, 8:18 pm

Walker is frighteningly fast given a yard of space. I watched him at the Floodlit Sevens this year and he was comfortably as fast as anyone else in the tournament - and that was before he turned on the afterburners and hit full speed.

When you consider he was in a team with Ross Chisholm, who ran through half of Gloucester's first team to score a try in the AP this season, that's pretty flippin' quick. Apparently his best position is 13 which would make sense as he could rip through defences if given the ball and half a gap. I hope England manage to get the ball to him.
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Post by Cumbrian Thu 07 Jun 2012, 8:26 pm

Poorfour wrote:Walker is frighteningly fast given a yard of space. I watched him at the Floodlit Sevens this year and he was comfortably as fast as anyone else in the tournament - and that was before he turned on the afterburners and hit full speed.

When you consider he was in a team with Ross Chisholm, who ran through half of Gloucester's first team to score a try in the AP this season, that's pretty flippin' quick. Apparently his best position is 13 which would make sense as he could rip through defences if given the ball and half a gap. I hope England manage to get the ball to him.


It's not so much his speed, it is how quickly he can change pace and direction that is impressive. He often cuts a really sharp angle across the drift defence and then puts the afterburners on when he's in behind.
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Post by yappysnap Thu 07 Jun 2012, 8:51 pm

Sinkler is the one to watch, another Marler in the making but even more of a beast.

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Post by Poorfour Thu 07 Jun 2012, 8:59 pm

yappysnap wrote:Sinkler is the one to watch, another Marler in the making but even more of a beast.

And a tighthead, too. A prop simply should not put himself about that much in the loose. JWC aside, I am looking forward to the day when Quins start with JJ and can bring Sinckler on from the bench.
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Post by DaveM Thu 07 Jun 2012, 11:47 pm

I'd say this, on paper, is pretty much as good as England can field from this squad. Yes you can argue that LCD should be LH, that Elliot (who I presume is injured or ill) is a better 11 than Walker given his AP experience, and that England might be better with Ransom's running game from 15. However I think they are all close calls.

The 9, 10, 12, 13, 14 combo could conceivably turn out for the senior side one day. But, England were poor against Ireland in the 6 Nations and they'll probably have to play better than that to win tomorrow.

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Post by HQ matt Fri 08 Jun 2012, 8:22 am

daveM- should england make the final those players you mentioned would all start.

for ireland fans not familiar;

in the backs charlie walker is very fast ( ex sprinter) but marland yarde has that and the power he is the one to look out for.

forwards, george merrick in the second row always stands out when i see him but probably because he is a giant man but also expect to see good athleticism from the front row.

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Post by rodders Fri 08 Jun 2012, 9:36 am

Feic won't be in to watch this later! Crying or Very sad ....any one know if tg4 are showing this and whether it will be on tg4 player later?

I really hope we can back up that performance against the Baby boks, but that will be difficult I think.

I'd imagine England are big, big favourites here but this will be a good acid test to see where are lads are at. Hoping for a close one and if we can come away with the win I'll be over the moon but a good performance is the main thing for me guinness.

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Post by Thomond Fri 08 Jun 2012, 9:38 am

All Ireland's games are on TG4 and I think the semi and final are on it too. I'd say they will be on it seeing as the first game appeared on it.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 08 Jun 2012, 9:41 am

in the backs charlie walker is very fast ( ex sprinter) but marland yarde has that and the power he is the one to look out for.

Both cut initial great lines and have the pace and power to go through defences like a hot knife through butter. Not sure they have the magic foot work skills to dig themselves out of a whole or to trick their way past a player one on one. Ransom can certainly do that though I don't rate his defence much and putting another playmaker at 15 is a safer selection.

Heathcote needs to follow up a limp first game with a better one here, he is the most experienced 10 in the squad so it's on him to lead the backline.

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Post by rodders Fri 08 Jun 2012, 9:46 am

Thomond wrote:All Ireland's games are on TG4 and I think the semi and final are on it too. I'd say they will be on it seeing as the first game appeared on it.

Cheers once again Thomond, you are a king amongst men king guinness OK
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Post by Thomond Fri 08 Jun 2012, 9:49 am

I could try and send them an e-mail if you want?

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 08 Jun 2012, 10:02 am

Republic of Ireland TG4
www.tg4.ie South Africa v Ireland 4 June 18.45
England v Ireland 8 June 18.45
Ireland v Italy 12 June 14.45
Ireland match 17 June
Ireland match 22 June

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Post by profitius Fri 08 Jun 2012, 11:39 am

LondonTiger wrote:Republic of Ireland TG4
www.tg4.ie South Africa v Ireland 4 June 18.45
England v Ireland 8 June 18.45
Ireland v Italy 12 June 14.45
Ireland match 17 June
Ireland match 22 June

I'm sure its 17:45 Irish time.
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Post by profitius Fri 08 Jun 2012, 3:16 pm

Conditions are supposed to be terrible there. The pitch could turn into a mud bath.
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Post by marty2086 Fri 08 Jun 2012, 3:22 pm

profitius wrote:Conditions are supposed to be terrible there. The pitch could turn into a mud bath.

That should nullify the pace some of the guys have been saying the Enlish have

Always said God was an Irishman angel

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 08 Jun 2012, 3:32 pm

See I can't work out whether the rain will help England or not. On one hand we have a pacey set off backs that can cause havoc in the oppositions defence but at the same time they were the main culprits for handling errors and conceding turnovers vs Italy. On the other hand England have a big ball carrying pack which comfortably managed Ireland during the 6N but I'm concerned the Irish defence may be to well drilled and to much like their first team (off their feet playing the ball) for us to capitalise if the ref isn't strong.

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Post by profitius Fri 08 Jun 2012, 3:38 pm

It could come down to a kicking contest.
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Post by LondonTiger Fri 08 Jun 2012, 3:52 pm

Kicking for goal will be difficult - have you seen the state of the pitch.

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Post by profitius Fri 08 Jun 2012, 4:18 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Kicking for goal will be difficult - have you seen the state of the pitch.

I don't think many tries will be scored in those conditions so difficult or not, it could be the deciding factor. Pity, not what you'd expect from SA!
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Post by LondonTiger Fri 08 Jun 2012, 4:23 pm

So far both kickers in NZ/Wales game are 1 from 4.

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Post by Morgannwg Fri 08 Jun 2012, 5:27 pm

england will win this. They'll fancy their chances of winning the cup after seeing the Baby Blacks fall. Is there a chance they can avoid NZ?
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Post by Cumbrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 5:31 pm

It's been a great week for the Northern Hemisphere against the Southern Hemisphere (so far!). Scotland beat Aus, Ireland beating the Baby Boks and now Wales beating the Baby Blacks.
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Post by maestegmafia Fri 08 Jun 2012, 5:32 pm

Morgannwg wrote:england will win this. They'll fancy their chances of winning the cup after seeing the Baby Blacks fall. Is there a chance they can avoid NZ?

They'll have to beat Wales first...!

Good luck to them..

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Post by profitius Fri 08 Jun 2012, 5:38 pm

Cumbrian wrote:It's been a great week for the Northern Hemisphere against the Southern Hemisphere (so far!). Scotland beat Aus, Ireland beating the Baby Boks and now Wales beating the Baby Blacks.

Sign that the tides are turning?? thumbsup
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Post by LondonTiger Fri 08 Jun 2012, 5:38 pm

Morgannwg wrote:england will win this. They'll fancy their chances of winning the cup after seeing the Baby Blacks fall. Is there a chance they can avoid NZ?

JABs will probably get the best runner up spot and be 4th seeds for the semis as they should get 5 pts against Fiji and end on 11. Group C cannot beat this.

Wales will probably end on 14pts and are front runners to be No1 seeds. They could be pipped by England but that would require TBPs against Ireland and SA.

The likelliest Semi finals are Wales v NZ and Arg vs winner of v winners of Pool B

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Post by Morgannwg Fri 08 Jun 2012, 5:42 pm

I think the same thing happened in 2007. Except that year Wales got trashed twice. I think they'll beat us if we play them again, especially if it is dry conditions. Otherwise, good luck England and please get the 4 tries against Ireland and SA Smile.
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Post by Shifty Fri 08 Jun 2012, 5:44 pm

Wow what an awesome rendition of Irelands Call. I think I'd of preferd to face the All Blacks... Whistle
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Post by timhen Fri 08 Jun 2012, 5:45 pm

This is going to be a tough match, against the Boks Ireland looked much improved from the 6N.

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 5:45 pm

Is it just me or did the backing track to 'Ireland's Call' sound a bit like a retro porn track? What's up with that?!?
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Post by LondonTiger Fri 08 Jun 2012, 5:47 pm

Cumbrian wrote:Is it just me or did the backing track to 'Ireland's Call' sound a bit like a retro porn track? What's up with that?!?

what when the moustachioed plumber checks the housewife's plumbing?

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Post by Cymroglan Fri 08 Jun 2012, 5:49 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:Is it just me or did the backing track to 'Ireland's Call' sound a bit like a retro porn track? What's up with that?!?

what when the moustachioed plumber checks the housewife's plumbing?

Moustache and socks on.

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 5:49 pm

Bright stand from England, 100% better than they were against Italy.
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Post by LondonTiger Fri 08 Jun 2012, 5:49 pm

A couple of punishable offences in that move sees Irelands captain get a warning. Good attacking intent by england so far.

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