Euro 2012: Day 4 Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

France v England (17:00 ITV 1)
Ukraine v Sweden (19:45 BBC 1)

The 4th and final group commences tomorrow and it starts with a mouthwatering game between England and France. France are favourites for the game and some people's pick to win the whole thing, but never say never for England. The day is rounded off by co-hosts Ukraine playing the unfancied Swedes.

Come on England!

[Guest]

All I'm saying is that I hope our tactics & mentality change for the Sweden game. If we go 1-0 up early I want to see us continuing to attack and reinforce our superiority, of course in a responsible way but not just sitting back and seeing the game out 1-0. You've got to remember this group or winning the group could come down to goal difference especially if we and France win both remaining games. Winning the group could see us avoiding Spain for example. I know it's looking further ahead but these things have to be considered.

All in all Hodgson needs to trust and have confidence in his 'strong' back line to perform against Sweden with an overall slightly more attacking style of play and not be overly cautious and defensive as soon as you take the lead.

[Mad for Chelsea]

It's not often I agree with Liverpool fans, but on this one Crimey is spot on. People have this pre-concieved notion that Johnson can't defend. While it's true he's never been the strongest defender, it's an area he's improved a great deal and yesterday he was excellent (after a slightly dodgy first ten minutes or so). There was one particular piece of covering in the second half which IMO may well have stopped a goal.

Still overall I don't want to be too critical, as a draw vs France is a decent result. Certainly England defended well and restricted France to long shots mostly (though it would be good if Gerrard and Lampard were a bit quicker to shut that space down). I honestly think we have the team to beat Sweden and Ukraine (neither of whom can defend) fairly comfortably if we give it a go.

[Crimey]

I also love how when England are rated 6th the FIFA rankings are useless and pointless, but because France are 14th and people are happy with a draw that's stupid.

[Guest]

Johnson was found wanting in the first half. I remember Ribery in acres and had he not come inside, might have developed into something more. Johnson is not as quick as he was years and yesterday he was caught up field a couple of times and had not been for Gerrard covering, again could've led to a goal.

What I don't get is all the negativity from everyone on Welbeck. Clearly most have not played the centre forward role and seem to think that because he didn't score a spectacular goal made him ineffective. If the midfield cannot play to a strikers strength, well simply shouldn't be on the pitch.

[Crimey]

I don't think anybody was expecting Welbeck to score an excellent goal, my problem with Welbeck is so many times he was given the ball and had such a heavy first touch that he had to fight to get it back.

I don't think it would be being stressed as much if it wasn't for a lot of people praising him...calling him man of the match etc.

[Mad for Chelsea]

erm full backs will sometimes be caught up field when their team attacks LK, that's to be expected. I'd be disapointed if Johnson had spent the whole game in his own half TBH...

agree with Crimey, wasn't expecting anything spectacular from Welbeck, but is being able to control the ball well too much to ask?

[hampo17]

It's not often I agree with Liverpool fans, but on this one Crimey is spot on. People have this pre-concieved notion that Johnson can't defend. While it's true he's never been the strongest defender, it's an area he's improved a great deal and yesterday he was excellent (after a slightly dodgy first ten minutes or so). There was one particular piece of covering in the second half which IMO may well have stopped a goal.

Still overall I don't want to be too critical, as a draw vs France is a decent result. Certainly England defended well and restricted France to long shots mostly (though it would be good if Gerrard and Lampard were a bit quicker to shut that space down). I honestly think we have the team to beat Sweden and Ukraine (neither of whom can defend) fairly comfortably if we give it a go.

To be fair MFC Lampard had a long way to run to close down the space

[Mad for Chelsea]

well spotted

the sentiment is unchanged though. CM should shut down the space much more than what they did yesterday...

[Guest]

A few heavy touches yes, but that for me is forgivable. The one thing we could actually learn from the game yesterday is not to play so much of the ball in the air. France to their credit with Nasri and Ribery they never once played a high ball or wasted pass to Benzema. Cabaye did brilliant by spreading the play. England never gave Welbeck much to run onto in the second half. Take the Milner chance in the first half. Welbeck took the centre half away and allowed Milner to run in.

There are positives to take from the game. I think Welbeck kept himself busy and tried to keep himself in the game. I think England had the right team out, but not sure about the tactics. The substitutions were more bizarre. Like for like. If he brought on Carroll at least he would've shown some intent to win the game. I would've taken Parker off brought Carroll on and drop Milner into the centre with Gerrard and leave Chamberlain and Young to go wide and get some balls into the middle.

[Guest]

erm full backs will sometimes be caught up field when their team attacks LK, that's to be expected. I'd be disapointed if Johnson had spent the whole game in his own half TBH...

agree with Crimey, wasn't expecting anything spectacular from Welbeck, but is being able to control the ball well too much to ask?

And actually recover too MFC.

We are willing to forgive a Full back who can't get back and not a forward for some heavy touches?

Talk about margins!

[Crimey]

Johnson did recover though. We were never seriously threatened down his flank, the best chances that weren't long shots were from Debuchy on our left.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Debuchy looks a cracking player doesn't he?

[Guest]

Given the French goal was set up by Ribery from the left doesn't bode for Johnson putting in a defensive masterclass now.

[Guest]

Newcastle will be kicking themselves for not getting him signed up pre-euros for the £7m fee. Apparently one of Cabaye's closest friends and wants him to join him at St James' Park as the replacement for Danny Simpson. After that performance, I think it will be tough to sign him now as bigger clubs will be interested, especially if he continues that form.

[Guest]

Debuchy looks a top find.

Reminds me a lot of Desailly.

[Crimey]

Debuchy looks a top find.

Reminds me a lot of Desailly.

Debuchy the right wing back reminds you of Desailly the centre back?

[Guest]

Debuchy looks a top find.

Reminds me a lot of Desailly.

Debuchy the right wing back reminds you of Desailly the centre back?

The fact he can run with the ball and the previous french defender who could do that was Desailly, or is that not allowed as a footballer?

[Crimey]

Debuchy looks a top find.

Reminds me a lot of Desailly.

Debuchy the right wing back reminds you of Desailly the centre back?

The fact he can run with the ball and the previous french defender who could do that was Desailly, or is that not allowed as a footballer?

Just seemed an odd comparison.

[Guest]

Debuchy looks a top find.

Reminds me a lot of Desailly.

Debuchy the right wing back reminds you of Desailly the centre back?

The fact he can run with the ball and the previous french defender who could do that was Desailly, or is that not allowed as a footballer?

Just seemed an odd comparison.

Not really. Desailly played right back sometimes at AC Milan and Chelsea IIRC

[JamesLincs]

i think the fullbacks did ok, and i think that will probably be their toughest test until atleast the semi's, should we get that far. parker and gerrard are going to have to do better in closing down opponents though if we are to beat the likes of spain and germany. i think were strong enough though to get passed the likes of holland and portugal. tbh i dont know alot at all about the italians, theyve been so quiet since 2006 i dont know whether they are a legit threat in this tournament or not

[Mr H]

Debuchy looks a top find.

Reminds me a lot of Desailly.

Debuchy the right wing back reminds you of Desailly the centre back?

The fact he can run with the ball and the previous french defender who could do that was Desailly, or is that not allowed as a footballer?

Just seemed an odd comparison.

Not really. Desailly played right back sometimes at AC Milan and Chelsea IIRC

That's like comparing Glen Johnson to Jamie Carragher.

Debuchy and Desailly are totally different players.

[siday38]

I thought it was a decent performance from England defensively, but hard to see them troubling the stronger defences. Massive gaps between the midfield and attack, and we sat back too much at times. Solid enough though.
Hard to tell if France will be a threat. Debuchy looks a class act at right back and Cabaye had a good game.

Russia and Italy have impressed me most so far.

My thoughts on Engalnd and my match by match review of Euro 2012 http://footballspeak.com/post/2012/06/12/Encouraging-Start-for-England.aspx

[Guest]

Debuchy looks a top find.

Reminds me a lot of Desailly.

Debuchy the right wing back reminds you of Desailly the centre back?

The fact he can run with the ball and the previous french defender who could do that was Desailly, or is that not allowed as a footballer?

Just seemed an odd comparison.

Not really. Desailly played right back sometimes at AC Milan and Chelsea IIRC

That's like comparing Glen Johnson to Jamie Carragher.

Debuchy and Desailly are totally different players.

Debuchy looks as if he can play across the backline!!

Stop being silly now.

[Mr H]

[Guest]

So a guy who started out as a holding midfielder and has played centre back for club is a bad comparison for a guy who did the same???

[Mr H]

Yes.

Incomparible.

[Guest]

[Mr H]

Do you think Desailly could have flown up and down the wing like Debuchy did against England last night then?

[Hero]

Ribery reminds me a lot of Sloth from the Goonies.
Hey youuuuu guyyyys!

[Guest]

Do you think Desailly could have flown up and down the wing like Debuchy did against England last night then?

Wouldn't have said he flew for starters.

Like I said versatility. He can play in different positions.

Can't see how they for life of anything they are 'incomparible'

[Guest]

Ribery reminds me a lot of Sloth from the Goonies.
Hey youuuuu guyyyys!

Wrong, but funny.

[Mr H]

Do you think Desailly could have flown up and down the wing like Debuchy did against England last night then?

Wouldn't have said he flew for starters.

Like I said versatility. He can play in different positions.

Can't see how they for life of anything they are 'incomparible'

You're digging yourself into a hole.

You know exactly what i mean - Debuchy was up and down the wing as much as Glen Johnson was, and there is no way Marcel Desailly could do that. And on the other hand, there is no way Debuchy could play as a towering centre half in the way Desailly did. They are chalk and cheese.

They are totally different players, you cant compare them just because they are both 'versatile'.

[Guest]

Do you think Desailly could have flown up and down the wing like Debuchy did against England last night then?

Wouldn't have said he flew for starters.

Like I said versatility. He can play in different positions.

Can't see how they for life of anything they are 'incomparible'

You're digging yourself into a hole.

You know exactly what i mean - Debuchy was up and down the wing as much as Glen Johnson was, and there is no way Marcel Desailly could do that. And on the other hand, there is no way Debuchy could play as a towering centre half in the way Desailly did. They are chalk and cheese.

They are totally different players, you cant compare them just because they are both 'versatile'.

Not exactly.

You are just trying to impose your opinion.

You say he was flying and I ain't.

Desailly was midfielder for first half of his career so you can pipe up with the 'towering' defender nonsense like that was his main attribute!

You can dig all day long, I ain't changing my opinion to suit yours!

[Mr H]

I dont care about your opinion, i'm just telling you and i'm sure anyone else who knows anything about football will also tell you that Debuchy and Desailly are completely different footballers, and if you think otherwise then you are just wrong.

Simple as that really.

Time to move on.

Ta ta.

[Guest]

I dont care about your opinion, i'm just telling you and i'm sure anyone else who knows anything about football will also tell you that Debuchy and Desailly are completely different footballers, and if you think otherwise then you are just wrong.

Simple as that really.

Time to move on.

Ta ta.

Taxi for H

[Mr H]

People who try mocking others to cover up their flaws when they are clearly wrong about something.

Love it

[Guest]

He who cast the first stone

[Guest]

Ribery reminds me a lot of Sloth from the Goonies.
Hey youuuuu guyyyys!

Celebrity Dating in the Dark beckons.

Also, that's a pretty harsh slur on Sloth!

[sportform]

Decent performance, improved from the 2 warm up matches offensively.

Still work to do though, our attacking players were left isolated for long periods and a bit too happy to stand off and not let opponents in behind. We'll get punished again if we dont press on the edge of the box.

This is one of the more sensible comments on here.

The team is definitely improving under Roy Hodgson but we gave France far too much respect and I was disappointed we didn't cause them more problems. I think the countries negativity since the last World cup may have cost them victory.

Quite perplexed by the negativity around Welbeck here.

I think Welbeck had an ok game but wouldn't have given him more tham 6/10. I would have prefered to have seen Andy Carroll play.

My problem with Welbeck, as people have point out, is that he dropped back, chased the ball, help out, shown energy... I don't want my centre forward doing that. I want the forward causing problems.

Many have suggested that Welbeck wasn't 'feed' the ball enough up front... That's why I would have played Andy Carroll. Carroll is a player who creates chances and other players feed off. Carroll made more chances for Liverpool last season then Welbeck did form Man United (with better players around him)both having played as similar amount of time. If England are going to drop deep then Carroll offers the option to ease the pressure but mainly France looked (and have done in other games) very suspect in the air. We always looked a threat from set plays and I was disappoint Carroll didn't atleast get 20 mins instead of Defoe.

Johnson was dreadful MFC. Most of France's attacks were down our left side.

For me Welbeck, Parker and Chamberlain put in decent shifts.

Totally agree about Glen Johnson. I have seen reports/ comments stating he was MOTM and how well he defended but did also notice France kept getting to the byline on that side. I'm still not sure about his positional play and think Martin Kelly would actually be the better option.

Agree also about the 'decent shifts'. The England players ran round alot and but themselves about but they weren't great or brilliant. Too many England fans, pundits, media hype players for headless chicken stuff (ok they were better than that but just making a point).

I also love how when England are rated 6th the FIFA rankings are useless and pointless, but because France are 14th and people are happy with a draw that's stupid.

This is what I don't understand, why people were thinking France were so much better. People were stating their 22 unbeaten games (Ireland were 14 before tournament) and that France were the strongest team (on paper).

They aren't. England are the strongest team on player. We came through a more difficult qualifying group more easily. France only scraped past Bosnia & Herzegovina. Yes they are on a unbeaten run but are 14th in the Fifa rankings. We are 6th.

These rakings are based on IMPORTANCE of games and STRENGTH of opposition and England have gain more points than France in 2011 & 2012 so either France games haven't been that important and/ or the strength on opposition hasn't been that great.

I don't see France being a force in this tournament and can't wait to see how they handle Ibrahimovich.

[mystiroakey]

sportsville you do talk alot of sense pal.

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