Problem is that any success in the AIs won't really help.

On the three test head to head series that'd be SH 8 1/2 NH 1/2.

Overall if you add Scotland - SH 8 1/2 NH 3 1/2.

But the point is that beating the big sides down under is the only indicator of progress. And apart from Scotland, there is none. And I'm bigging up Scotland hugely there.

I have to agree with OP, apart from if you're getting closer, that's also progress ... even if nothing like the kind of progress that is 'winning'.

On that, Wales have actually progressed a little. A little.
England, not really based on their recent history.
Ireland, not at all.
Scotland, progressed from a very low base and need to kick on now.

i think that winning at home in the autumn would be the best place to start challenging the SH dominance

i agree hq, if they could be beaten anywhere that is progress but it really doesn't look like any of the home nations have the nouse to get it done

HQ matt wrote:i think that winning at home in the autumn would be the best place to start challenging the SH dominance

That's what we all say every year, yet nothing materialises

The problem the way I see it: you need to stop looking at this as a devide between SH an NH.

Why? Because you are being unfair to NZ by lumping them with SA and OZ, they are the nearly invicibles, but not for all teams.

Also combining 5 of the 6 top european nations together is also not fair as their respective records and successes are seriously varied.

This needs to be looked at from and individual perspective.

Have Wales progressed, I don't think we have. I honestly thought we would win at least one test possibly even sneak the series.

Even when we were ahead I never really felt confient that we had the nous to close the games out and unfortunately I was proved wrong.

I think our 'back up' coach was found seriously wanting in his selection policy and tactics and if he is in charge for next seasons 6 Nations then don't overly confident.

We still are no better off as to who is our best option at No 10, our line out weknesses came back again and the big area still for me is that we have no genuine replacement for Adam Jones.

bedfordwelsh wrote:
I think our 'back up' coach was found seriously wanting in his selection policy and tactics and if he is in charge for next seasons 6 Nations then don't overly confident.

Were Howley's selections and tactics any different from those Gatland would have done?

bedfordwelsh wrote:
We still are no better off as to who is our best option at No 10, our line out weknesses came back again and the big area still for me is that we have no genuine replacement for Adam Jones.

Nor have Ireland for Ross or England for Cole.

London,

I think Gatland would have the balls to make a few big calls after the 2nd test.

Despite Priestland and Warburton both most probably having their best game yesterday most thought Hook n Tipuric should have started.

For me this tour would have been ideal to try and blood another T/Head, instead Jones was the only specialist on tour and it looks like we are trying to convert young Jones from the Loose.

I reckon Gatland had some input into selection. I just cannot see him being the kind of person who could be with the squad and not have a say.