The Critical End - SF Discussion

So we come to the critical end of the tournament. I will give a quick review of each of the matches with my prediction.

Djokovic v Federer

Djokovic,age 25, #1
Federer, age 30, #3

H2H 12-14
Last meeting: French Open 2012, Djokovic won 6-4, 7-5, 6-3
Have never met on grass.

Djokovic was a clear tournament winner for me until his match with Mayer... then I saw how vulnerable he is on grass. And he is. He has not been tested and that is not a good thing for him. The question is, can an aging Federer keep up with him and serve well enough to win? He will surely get many chances to break... and his game looked pretty good against Youzhny... If Djokovic does beat Federer it is likely he will win the whole thing... but Federer is not done yet. He has the variety, the crowd, the experience and game to beat Djokovic. Expect this one to be a lot tougher than the French Open was for Djokovic.. I would have gone 4 sets to Djokovic yesterday but today I am going 4 sets to Federer. I think his will to win and the surface will aid him.

Murray v Tsonga

Murray, age 25, #4
Tsonga, age 27, #6

H2H 5-1
Last meeting: Queens 2011, Murray won 3-6, 7-6(2), 6-4
Have met twice on grass, Murray beating Tsonga both times.

Forget the head to head for this one. Murray is going out. He was extremely lucky to beat Ferrer but tsonga has the serve and weaponry to take him out. He is looking better now than their last meeting in 2011 and I expect this one to be 4 sets to Tsonga. Tsonga has managed to challenge Murray on grass but this year I think he will beat him. Murray also has a huge expectation and pressure on his shoulders from the press and fans to get to the final and win it. I do not believe he has the variety to beat Tsonga in this match, or the bottle. His defensive play will be his undoing to the big man.
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A Djok v Murray final would be a bad ad for grass tennis.. 2 boring baseline sluggers... On the other hand, a Fed v Tsonga final would be a victory for grass tennis. This year, instead of 1,2,3,4 we have 1,3,4,5 seed wise. Let us hope we get a Fed v Tsonga match that this tournament deserves.

Beg to differ on this one.

Federer was very good today against Youzhny but Djokovic knows how to beat him. Pure and simple. Expect a tough 4 or 5 set encounter but Novak will undoubtedly pull through.

Tsonga wasn't that impressive from the bits I saw on TV today and a confident Murray has what it takes to see him off. No petulance, some aggressive play and a realisation that his drop shot wasn't working all helped Murray put in a very good performance against a real dogged opponent in Ferrer. Andy in 4.

newballs wrote:Beg to differ on this one.

Federer was very good today against Youzhny but Djokovic knows how to beat him. Pure and simple. Expect a tough 4 or 5 set encounter but Novak will undoubtedly pull through.

Tsonga wasn't that impressive from the bits I saw on TV today and a confident Murray has what it takes to see him off. No petulance, some aggressive play and a realisation that his drop shot wasn't working all helped Murray put in a very good performance against a real dogged opponent in Ferrer. Andy in 4.

+1

legendkillarV2 wrote:

newballs wrote:Beg to differ on this one.

Federer was very good today against Youzhny but Djokovic knows how to beat him. Pure and simple. Expect a tough 4 or 5 set encounter but Novak will undoubtedly pull through.

Tsonga wasn't that impressive from the bits I saw on TV today and a confident Murray has what it takes to see him off. No petulance, some aggressive play and a realisation that his drop shot wasn't working all helped Murray put in a very good performance against a real dogged opponent in Ferrer. Andy in 4.

+1

+3 - 1

I'm hoping your right about Fed beating Djokovic, but it's a faint hope rather than a realistic one.

I disagree about Tsonga beating Murray, I think you allowed your two favourite players (certainly in liking Tsonga) to distort your view. The H2H probably includes the two grass counrt wins Murray's had in recent times. I expect a close encounter but the crowd will be with Murray and I think it will help push Murray over. I've seen Tsonga throw away games and get pushed so often that I'm sceptical about him making the final.

Overall I don't agree with your notion a Djokovic vs Murray final is bad. Wimbledon is in the UK and Murray is from here, Murray's chance of beating Djokovic is pretty good especially with the home support he'll get from the crowd so it would be awesome for him. He also pushed Djoko hard @ the Aussie Open in 5 sets. I'd much prefer a Fed vs Murray or a Djokovic vs Murray final, we shall see.....I think there's a good chance the Fed vs Djoko semi will be on first...fingers crossed!

Djokovic is far from unbeatable on grass.

His backhand is not that good anymore so I suspect Federer will target there.

Federer in 4

I think Andy will beat Tsonga. I think it might be 4 sets but Am sure Murray will have too much.

The other one.... Well, all logic points to a Djokovic win. But then logic should dictate that a guy over 30 can't get back to world number 1 in such a strong era, and yet Fed is two matches from doing it.

I think Federer has nothing to lose, and has a real chance of winning.

Seemed like a decent article until I read the last couple of sentences. "Boring baseline sluggers", why do you even watch Tennis if you can't appreciate great players like Murray and Djokovic?

luciusmann wrote:I'm hoping your right about Fed beating Djokovic, but it's a faint hope rather than a realistic one.

I disagree about Tsonga beating Murray, I think you allowed your two favourite players (certainly in liking Tsonga) to distort your view.

Nope. I don't work that way. I made djok favourite all way through and tsonga 3rd fave all way through. Until the last matches. That's when Djok became 2nd favourite.

VTR wrote:Seemed like a decent article until I read the last couple of sentences. "Boring baseline sluggers", why do you even watch Tennis if you can't appreciate great players like Murray and Djokovic?

Murray has never got to a slam final off hard court.

Berdych being in that 1 Wimbledon final is worth more than Murrays Australian/US Open finals.

Seifer Almasy wrote:

luciusmann wrote:I'm hoping your right about Fed beating Djokovic, but it's a faint hope rather than a realistic one.

I disagree about Tsonga beating Murray, I think you allowed your two favourite players (certainly in liking Tsonga) to distort your view.

Nope. I don't work that way. I made djok favourite all way through and tsonga 3rd fave all way through. Until the last matches. That's when Djok became 2nd favourite.

https://www.606v2.com/t19636p100-606v2-world-tour-2012

There's this if you think your predictions are that worthy

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

VTR wrote:Seemed like a decent article until I read the last couple of sentences. "Boring baseline sluggers", why do you even watch Tennis if you can't appreciate great players like Murray and Djokovic?

Murray has never got to a slam final off hard court.

Berdych being in that 1 Wimbledon final is worth more than Murrays Australian/US Open finals.

Put your wum brain away!

Josiah, thanks for your response but you've lost me there. What on earth has your post got to do with what I've written?!

I dispute that fact that Murray is "great".

I assume by your comment the definition of "great" has a new meaning.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:I dispute that fact that Murray is "great".

I assume by your comment the definition of "great" has a new meaning.

And I dispute the fact that 1 is greater than 3.

Berdych defeated Federer and Djokovic to make the final, now imagine if Murray did that. Hang on, Murray hasnt beaten Djokovic OR Federer in ANY slam. Is this true or is this false? I'll give you 2 mins for that one before I have my tea.

I think if someone was the 4th best scientist, fireman, software developer etc in the world no-one would have a problem calling them a 'great' scientist, fireman, software developer etc. I don't think it would require a new definition of 'great'.

Seifer Almasy wrote:

luciusmann wrote:I'm hoping your right about Fed beating Djokovic, but it's a faint hope rather than a realistic one.

I disagree about Tsonga beating Murray, I think you allowed your two favourite players (certainly in liking Tsonga) to distort your view.

Nope. I don't work that way. I made djok favourite all way through and tsonga 3rd fave all way through. Until the last matches. That's when Djok became 2nd favourite.

Tsonga hasn't played particularly well though. Well enough to get to the semis but not well enough to win the whole thing. Has he ever beaten Murray on grass? I doubt it. Murray has also made more grand slam finals than Tsonga so yes I do think you're personal liking of Tsonga gets in the way of you picking Murray. You're other comments about Murray suggests that your rather personal dislike is distorting the evident good chance Murray has. Tsonga is fortunate he's in the semis, had Nadal got through he'd be gone.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Berdych defeated Federer and Djokovic to make the final, now imagine if Murray did that. Hang on, Murray hasnt beaten Djokovic OR Federer in ANY slam. Is this true or is this false? I'll give you 2 mins for that one before I have my tea.

Tell me what is greater.

1 or 3.

2 sugars please

Tsonga has much more variety and he has played better this tournament. Murray is lucky he beat Ferrer... Tsonga is gonna kill him.

Ok Josiah, thanks for clearing that up. You seem to suffer from that annoying internet forum affliction of taking things literally and picking apart comments based on the tiniest points. I think you know what I meant so thanks for your input - I wont be entertaining you with any form of response ever again.

Back to the topic: I'm just looking forward to 2 potentially "great" matches, featuring 4 "great" players. I'd like to see Murray win the thing for a couple of reasons:

1) He's a Brit, I'm a Brit, I'll support my fellow Brits in any sport from Tennis to Tiddlywinks
2) It will finally silence Henman/Inverdale/The Daily Mail etc, etc, we can move on from this obsession of no Brit winner since the 30's, I think Wimbledon coverage would be more enjoyable without it (its been going on since 1996 since Henman got in the quarter final)

Saying that, my predictions are: Djokovic vs Murray final, Djokovic to win the final

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Berdych defeated Federer and Djokovic to make the final, now imagine if Murray did that. Hang on, Murray hasnt beaten Djokovic OR Federer in ANY slam. Is this true or is this false? I'll give you 2 mins for that one before I have my tea.

In the unlikely event Murray beats Tsonga, he is gonna get his arse well and truly spanked in the final. I'd prefer to have Murray there than Tsonga if Fed goes through... just because I want Fed to get number 7... but if Tsonga does make it with Fed, being that they are my 2 fave players and infinitely better grass players (if this was actually grass and not the modern cheapo version) than Djok and Murray, I will be happy.

Seifer Almasy wrote:Tsonga has much more variety and he has played better this tournament. Murray is lucky he beat Ferrer... Tsonga is gonna kill him.

Like the 1 time out of the 6 they have met.

Djokovic is due to play a crap match, he's dominated everyone so far, Federer had his 2 crappy matches, not gonna be a 3rd. The stars points to Federer in the final.

Seifer Almasy wrote:Tsonga has much more variety and he has played better this tournament. Murray is lucky he beat Ferrer... Tsonga is gonna kill him.

Wishful thinking. There's a reason the H2H is 5-1.

You may disregard the H2H but just because Tsonga has more variety doesn't mean he will progress. If Tsonga has played better, why has he dropped just as many sets as Murray? That doesn't suggest he's played better but rather similarly actually.

I backed tsonga for final from the start

JuliusHMarx wrote:I think if someone was the 4th best scientist, fireman, software developer etc in the world no-one would have a problem calling them a 'great' scientist, fireman, software developer etc. I don't think it would require a new definition of 'great'.

Bill Hicks:

People say, "Uh-Uh, Bill, Iraq had the fourth-largest army in the world." Yeah, well, maybe, but, you know what? After the first three largest armies there's a really big f***ng drop-off, okay? The Hare Krishnas are the fifth largest army in the world, and they've already got all our airports. So, who is the bigger threat?

Seifer Almasy wrote:I backed tsonga for final from the start

And....?

Ferrer was a higher seed than Tsonga and was still sent packing, no reason to suppose Tsonga won't either. The H2H with Ferrer isn't as one sided either and still he didn't come close enough to beating Murray.

I know you dislike Murray but at least he won't do that stupid dance Tsonga does when he wins. Plus Murray is British, even more reason to get behind him (at least for those us from the UK)!

CaledonianCraig wrote:No point appealing to Seifer.....

Your theory doesn't hold since I love Stephen Maguire. And I am fed up of your trolling.. so..

another for the foe people! Let's see how many 606v2 has left by the end.

luciusmann wrote:

Seifer Almasy wrote:I backed tsonga for final from the start

And....?

And so I am not backing him simply because I like him. I backed him for the final because he is looking good. Any case, Murray aint winning a slam anyway LOL

Seifer Almasy wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:No point appealing to Seifer as he also despises Stephen Hendry another Scot. Deeply imbedded feelings there me thinks.

Your theory doesn't hold since I love Stephen Maguire. And I am fed up of your trolling.. so..

another for the foe people! Let's see how many 606v2 has left by the end.

Odd that as I swear you said your ta ta's to this forum a week or so ago. Damnations - building up my hopes like that.

Seifer Almasy wrote:

luciusmann wrote:

Seifer Almasy wrote:I backed tsonga for final from the start

And....?

And so I am not backing him simply because I like him. I backed him for the final because he is looking good. Any case, Murray aint winning a slam anyway LOL

What a load of lovesacks!

Yes you are because you've given us no reason to disregard the H2H between Murray and Tsonga.

Just like Djokovic and Federer's H2H gives the impression of a good match, 6-1 between Murray & Tsonga doesn't.

The fact you've said it would be bad to have Murray in the final because he's a 'boring baseline slugger' does suggest it's more your dislike of Murray that's led to you dismissing him. In fact you're right, you're not tipping Tsonga because you like him but because as CC says, you hate Murray. Simple really.

You also said Ferrer would beat Murray, you were wrong. I got all 4 of the semi-finalists right, so don't go on about you're predictions please, you'll end up sounding like jersey.

Mark my words

legendkillarV2 wrote:Mark my words

I know...it was very amusing, jersey was distraught when Nadal won RG, shock horror: he won on clay!

Can anyone explain the seedings at Wimbledon to me?

In any normal seeding event in any sport, the semis would always be seeded 1 v 4 and 2 v 3, yet at Wimbledon the semis are always 1 v 3 and 2 v 4, thereby it's an advantage to be seeded 2 every year over being seeded 1.....................

It's odd???

Federer v Murray final.

Agree with your assessment of Fed/Djok but I think Murray will have an easier time against Tsonga than he did against Ferrer.

Tsonga makes too many mistakes on rallies and Murray's dire keep the ball in play and wait for an error will work against Tsonga's erratic play. Straight sets win but maybe 4 but think Murray will comfortably get to the final.

Murray vs Djokovic I think. But I keep changing my mind about the Novak v Roger match. It's gonna be such a belter.

Wonderful major so far. One of the best I can remember watching.

Danny_1982 wrote:Murray vs Djokovic I think. But I keep changing my mind about the Novak v Roger match. It's gonna be such a belter.

Wonderful major so far. One of the best I can remember watching.

I hope you're right about the Fed vs Djoko match but I remember watching the Rome match and thinking this is disappointing and then RG I thought Fed would go up a gear and he didn't so I really hope it is a belter but these encounters can be hit and miss.

This is grass.

Seifer Almasy wrote:This is grass.

He lost all his hard court matches (4) to Djokovic last year though. The only match he won was strangely on clay.

And Tsonga has never beaten Murray on grass

As we are dealing with 'facts'

I'm Irish here and I don't mean to stir but I would find it difficult to support Murray over Tsonga if I was British, I mean that in personality and tennis terms

luciusmann wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:Murray vs Djokovic I think. But I keep changing my mind about the Novak v Roger match. It's gonna be such a belter.

Wonderful major so far. One of the best I can remember watching.

I hope you're right about the Fed vs Djoko match but I remember watching the Rome match and thinking this is disappointing and then RG I thought Fed would go up a gear and he didn't so I really hope it is a belter but these encounters can be hit and miss.

But clay neutralises one of Federer's most sublime shots... The backhand slice. In fact he's rarely able to use it on a hard court against Novak, so it's almost like a completely new element to the rivalry as they've never played on grass before.

If Federer uses that gorgeous slice well and gets it really low, it could force Novak to be conservative to get it back which Federer would gobble up. The slice and the Federer serve will define where this match goes for me. If he executes both well, he could do it.

theslosty wrote:I'm Irish here and I don't mean to stir but I would find it difficult to support Murray over Tsonga if I was British, I mean that in personality and tennis terms

Personality?? This is professional sport, not big brother!!

We don't know either of their personalities anyway! How they conduct media interviews (our only insight into who they are) is not representative of who they are!

He has GB next to his name, that's good enough for me. Just cos he's a bit serious in front of the cameras won't put me off.

I don't find it hard to wish he would lose... thats how bad his attitude and game actually is.

luciusmann wrote:

Seifer Almasy wrote:This is grass.

He lost all his hard court matches (4) to Djokovic last year though. The only match he won was strangely on clay.

This is grass.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:[Berdych being in that 1 Wimbledon final is worth more than Murrays Australian/US Open finals.

You and Seifer really have to let us all know what you've been smoking

Whether it's our, er, esteemed author of this article, forever backing however's playing Murray (law of averages says that you have to get it right at sometime - unless you're backing against the Nole of 2011 ) or the wonderful young pup of these boards, showing a creative talent beyond his age for taking stats and making them fit his barmy theories

If the semi's and final are as good as these two, we're in for a treat

Seifer Almasy wrote:In the unlikely event Murray beats Tsonga, he is gonna get his arse well and truly spanked in the final. I'd prefer to have Murray there than Tsonga if Fed goes through... just because I want Fed to get number 7... but if Tsonga does make it with Fed, being that they are my 2 fave players and infinitely better grass players (if this was actually grass and not the modern cheapo version) than Djok and Murray, I will be happy.

And the hits just keep on coming Of course Tsonga's a far better grass court player that's why Murray's beaten him twice on grass, reached four consecutive SF's to his two and lost to Murray at Queen's only last year

Banb, surely you are not questioning Seifer's and Josiah's excellent knowldge?!?!